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<reinhard> good morning
<reinhard> greetings from jonas from the fosdem to everybody
<ra3vat> hello reinhard
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<SachaS> Hallo Reinhard. Are you in Brussell?
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<chillywilly> anyone ever see the vie signs?
<chillywilly> er, movie
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<jan> hi all
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<ajmitch> hi siesel, jan :)
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<siesel> hi ajmitch
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Action: siesel feel a bit less schizophrenic now
<chillywilly> jan jan he's our man!
<siesel> hi chillywilly, how are you?
<chillywilly> if he can't do it nobody can!
<chillywilly> fine thanks
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<chillywilly> and how are you?
<siesel> fine. I finally get some important stuff done, being a bit less swamped again :)
<chillywilly> we can expect some cvs commits now? ;)
<siesel> hehe, I think so ;)
<siesel> I'll have to read some GNUE KCs first, to check out whats new.
<Mr_You> chilly I saw Signs tonight.
<Mr_You> hi sisel
<Mr_You> doh
<siesel> hi Mr_You
<SachaS> chillywilly: do you know another good internet radio?
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> what the frell...
<chillywilly> hmmmm konsole -e mutt -y doesn't seem to work anymore
<chillywilly> oh, I should restart kde
<chillywilly> brb
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<siesel> SachaS: check out http://coderunner.aboutmedia.com.tw/cgi-bin/real_load_UFO.pl
<Mr_You> oh oops
<Mr_You> I meant to msg sachas ;-)
<SachaS> siesel: thats chinese :)
<siesel> but its good music :)
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<reinhard> SachaS: no i've just returned
<reinhard> siesel: good to see you're back
Action: reinhard is now trying to catch up with mails, fax, callbacks etc.
<reinhard> wouldn't think i was away over the _weekend_
<reinhard> seems like i was away 2 working days
<SachaS> reinhard :) hope you enjoyed it. maybe we can go together next year
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> it was good again
<reinhard> you can always meet many interesting people
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<dtm> what's the SQL command to drop a database from mysql?
<siesel> drop database XXX should do it
<dtm> siesel: how about if the database name has hyphens in it?
<dtm> i just learned that that's not properly handled in mysql so i wont do it anymore
<dtm> it says i have a syntax error
<dtm> when i do this:
<dtm> drop dtabase az-pre-0;
<dtm> drop database az-pre-0;
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Action: SachaS is reading all this eGovOS mails ......
<jamest_> i'm not really here I'm running around fixing fires this morning but I wanted opinion
<jamest_> would people hunt me down if I broke cvs HEAD for probably about a week
<jamest_> I've got a paritial UI rerwrite completed but jbailey was going to be starting work on the GTK ui this week
<jamest_> I'm debating on breaking cvs or just syncing tarballs with him
<jamest_> breakage in this case means forms barely works only in wx mode, designer is toast
<jamest_> bbl
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<Arturas> Hello
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<jamest_> hi
<siesel> hi jamest, hi Arturas
<jamest_> hello
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<ra3vat> jamest_: if you'll break our HEAD we will all die 
<jamest_> ?
<jamest_> ra3vat: ?
<jamest_> what if I just crack it a little and give you some aspirin
<ra3vat> :)
<ra3vat> much better
<jamest_> seriously
<jamest_> this will break designer and forms
<jamest_> is that a problem for you?
<ra3vat> no
<Arturas> jamest_: he'll just die :)
<jamest_> coders are disposable aren't they?
<jamest_> so losing 1 or 2 is expected and acceptable
<jamest_> :)
<Arturas> you're cruel :)
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<Arturas> bye
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<revDeke> jamest: cvs head is meant to be broken
<revDeke> we have a stable 0.4.x 
<revDeke> as well as a 0.5.x development somewhere
<revDeke> i would say breaking head is better than tarball and synching
<revDeke> imho
<revDeke> jcater: you around?
<jamest_> well, seeing as no one has complained I'll break it tonight
<jcater> as round as ever
<Vee2d2> 7-11's dreammmmm donuts as good as they say they are?
<revDeke> must run bbl
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<ajmitch> morning
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<ajmitch> jamest_: you're planning to break HEAD?
<jamest_> i want to
<ajmitch> ok, i'll just grab what's in cvs at the moment & stick with that
<jamest_> actually, i'm not crazy about it but I know others are wanting to work on the UI drivers
<ajmitch> yeah, i do
<jamest_> then you want me to break head
<jamest_> it's no where near the same 
<ajmitch> i have a project that needs done within 2-3 weeks :)
<jamest_> in wx? or other?
<ajmitch> i may have to go back to 0.4.3
<ajmitch> gtk2
<jamest_> dude
<jamest_> i think the new ui drivers will be easier to implement
<jamest_> than the old
<ajmitch> yeah
<jamest_> take a look at www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/forms.tgz 
<jamest_> IIRC
<jamest_> it's the tarball of the new setup
<ajmitch> i want to catch up with jbailey on that gtk2 stuff
<ajmitch> yeah, i got that tarball
<jamest_> he's wanting to work on it this week which is why I'm wanting to check it in
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<jamest_> you got it alreay?
<jamest_> already
<jamest_> did someone post that previously?
<ajmitch> jamest_: i'm wanting to work on it this week
Action: ajmitch blames jcater
<ajmitch> he didn't post in channel :)
Action: jcater_ looks around
<jcater_> who, me?
<ajmitch> yes you
Action: jamest_ thwaps jcater around with a day old donut
<jamest_> you feel this will be harder to work w/ than 0.4.x ui drivers?
Action: jamest_ thought the new layout was easier to follow
<ajmitch> i feel that i'll need something stable to work on :)
<ajmitch> but i also need gtk2 drivers
<jamest_> well, honestly stability wize we're about the same I imagine
<ajmitch> at the moment
<jamest_> it's missing features that kills head
<ajmitch> yep
<jamest_> as all the pop-ups are getting reimplemented as <dialog>
<jamest_> even login box :)
Action: ajmitch must hunt down jbailey
<jamest_> please do, the only reason I've not commited yet is lack of jbailey
<ajmitch> the only reason i haven't started work yet is lack of talking to him about it
<jcater_> for the record, this commit will break designer's support of forms
<jcater_> for a little while
<ajmitch> yeah, i realise that
Action: jcater_ is making that public for psu's KCs :)
<ajmitch> what do you mean by 'support of forms'?
<ajmitch> designer will be unusable completely?
<jcater_> as in, you load a form
<jcater_> designer will segfault
<psu> use emacs or vi for .gfds, like in the old days
<ajmitch> oh, that's no problem :)
<psu> pre-jcater
Action: ajmitch wonders what the difference is there ;)
<jamest_> it's the improved driver performance
<jamest_> you segfault instantly instead of after 1/2 hour of unsaved work
<ajmitch> lol
Action: ajmitch wants to work on this stuff today :(
<jamest_> If you are going to work from the cvs as it sits I'd say go ahead
<jamest_> as I thought jbailey wanted to work from the new drivers
<jamest_> and we can just port your stuff up
<jamest_> (i hope)
<ajmitch> but then i'll be duplicating work :)
<jamest_> yeah
<jamest_> or work from the tarball and I'll get this in cvs tonight
<ajmitch> has jbailey started on his hacking?
<jamest_> no clue
<ajmitch> gar
Action: ajmitch ponders what to do
<jamest_> i say get started :)
<jamest_> what I would do is get the new drivers gtk'ized
<ajmitch> yup
<ajmitch> and then beat jbailey up
<jamest_> if you have that much complete then you're really close to being functional now
<jamest_> in a pinch we could reactivate the old style dialogs
<ajmitch> heh
<jamest_> but I prefer not too
<ajmitch> so work on the gtk2 driver in your tarball?
<jamest_> I don't think the designer breakage is too bad
<jamest_> i think I would
<jamest_> i removed the gtk dir from the tarball to make it smaller
<jamest_> and reduce my glimpse file hits :)
<jamest_> but it's still the same basic structure
<jamest_> wrt widget construction
<jamest_> only now they are split out into a widgets dir
<ajmitch> heh ok
<ajmitch> might as well start from scratch then (copying the wx driver across)
Action: ajmitch clears room on desk for 2nd monitor
<jamest_> dude
<ajmitch> yes?
<jamest_> almost everything should be cut n paste from the main driver
<ajmitch> yup
<jamest_> with a little tweaking
<jamest_> ok
Action: jamest_ did not want you starting from complete scratch
<jamest_> what time is it in the land of kiwis?
<ajmitch> i said from scratch (copy wx stuff)
<ajmitch> Tue Feb 11 10:03:44 NZDT 2003
<jamest_> ah, mid morning
<jamest_> ok, i'll make it a point to be on tonight
<ajmitch> i really wish this other monitor did more than 640x480 :)
<ajmitch> ok
<jamest_> i really with a had a 2nd monitor
Action: jamest_ mumbles something about lucky no good rotten...... :)
<jcater_> ya need to get that lithp taken care of too
<ajmitch> heheh
<ajmitch> it was off an old 386 box :)
<jamest_> lol
<psu> ordinary lithp or emacs-lithp?
<jcater_> visual lithp
<jamest_> ajmitch: our strategy for today is to fsck up designer soooooo bad that jcater can't stand to sit back and watch
<jamest_> ajmitch: at which point he'll jump in and fix it up for us
<jamest_> whoops forgot the /msg 
<ajmitch> jamest_: think we can do something to reports as well?
<jcater_> don't worry... I'm fscking up reports on my own
Action: jcater_ is working on formula support
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> excellent, i need to do stats in reports (calculate depreciation based on purchase dat, price, and depreciation value..)
<jamest_> oooo, an output formatting
<ajmitch> btw, you want me to brush off my csv db driver?
<jamest_> s/an/and
<ajmitch> oh nice
<jcater_> yeah
<jcater_> and output formatting
<jamest_> oooo, and barcode output
<ajmitch> i've got a small 900k cvs file to import
<jcater_> yes
<jcater_> and barcode support
<jcater_> see
<ajmitch> barcode output! yay!
<jamest_> sigh, he's agreeing too easily
Action: jcater_ has the driver for barcode support almost done
<jcater_> it's a python wrapper around gnu barcode
<jamest_> this must not be the jcater we know and lothe^H^H^Hve
<ajmitch> we have to generate barcodes frim this inventory app to stick on everything ;)
<jcater_> ajmitch: well, not to worry... I've swigged gnu barcode :)
<ajmitch> hehe, cool
<jcater_> but I can't decide if this should be a separate project (pybarcode)
<ajmitch> the barcode reader that will be used is a simple keyboard entry one
<jcater_> or if I should send as patches to gnubarcode
<jcater_> and have them do like postgresql does
<jcater_> and have their bindings in their cvs tree
<jcater_> my only problem is they seem to move slowly
Action: jcater_ thinks I'm going to do a separate project from them
<ajmitch> ok
Action: jcater_ is looking for opinions here......
<jcater_> :)
<jamest_> um
<jamest_> an opinion
<jamest_> hmmmm
<jamest_> you should spend more time gnue'n
<ajmitch> :)
<jcater_> um
<jamest_> oooo
<jcater_> this will give you barcode support in python
<jcater_> this is gnue'n
<jamest_> and make that a seperate project too
<jcater_> :)
<jamest_> i mean in general
<jamest_> i'm excited about the barcoding
<jamest_> and the less real life you have the more cool toys gnue gets
<jcater_> my next biggie to come up soon
<jcater_> is a graphing library for python
<jcater_> I can't decide if that should be done in gnue common
<jcater_> or externally
<ajmitch> jamest_: does jeff have your forms tarball?
<jcater_> as python doesn't have a good graphing package
<jamest_> ajmitch: no
<jamest_> ajmitch: at least I don't think so
<ajmitch> ok, harassing jeff by email
<chillywilly> is 0.5.0 going t contain this ui rewrite?
<chillywilly> s/t/to/
<jcater_> yes
<psu> chillywilly: looks like it
<jcater_> 0.5.0 is shaping up to be a really major release
<ajmitch> yay
<psu> from a practical point of view, "upgrade to 0.5.0, it breaks all your old forms" is a less attractive msg than
<ajmitch> the feature plan been updated to match?
<chillywilly> but no native win32 driver?
<jcater_> chillywilly: possibly
<psu> "upgrad to 0.5.0 it breaks all your old forms but has radikool new UI drivers"
<jcater_> or at least one of the 0.5.x releases
<chillywilly> well I was thinking of writing one
<ajmitch> depends if someone is willing to submit themselves to writing a win32 driver
<chillywilly> maybe start with kde first
<ajmitch> ok
<chillywilly> ;P
<psu> ajmitch: iirc, the feature plans don't split by point release
<ajmitch> psu: they should ;)
<psu> so things are planned for 0.5.x, not for 0.5.0 or 0.5.1
<chillywilly> but if things keep changing that would make it hard
<ajmitch> chillywilly: big change landing tonight
<ajmitch> don't know what else is planned to change
<jamest_> i've started a qt driver
<jamest_> the format changed
<chillywilly> the gtk2 driver looks like they copied the wx one is that the way to go?
<chillywilly> ok
<jamest_> the ui drivers are *hopefully* cleaner
<ajmitch> chillywilly: that's what i'm doing now - starting a new gtk2 driver :)
<jamest_> <dialog> support
<chillywilly> ok
<jamest_> i'd love to see a win32 dirver
<jamest_> um
<jcater_> chillywilly: all this stuff is in line with our feature plan of 2 months ago, iirc
<jamest_> it is, i verified it last week
<chillywilly> sorry, I try to keep up but well life happens
<psu> in effect, all that has happened is that we are skipping the planned 0.5.0 
<chillywilly> I need to get rid f my life
<chillywilly> s/f/of/
<ajmitch> jamest_: i see the gtk2 driver is in the tarball
<psu> as no-one seemed to need/want the gfd breakage w/o the new UI
<ajmitch> is that an untouched one?
<psu> so what would have been 0.5.1 will now be 0.5.0
<jamest_> it is?
<jcater_> psu: the issue was that once we release 0.5.0, people expect the 0.5.x series to kind of stabilize (at least based on 0.4.0 experience)
<chillywilly> what is this tarball that you guys are talking about?
<jcater_> but we weren't at that point :(
Action: jamest_ swore he removed all drivers except wx  from that tarball on my page 
<ajmitch> chillywilly: s3kr3t k0d3
<jamest_> www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/forms.tgz
<chillywilly> ui rewrite?
<ajmitch> yeah
<chillywilly> ok
<psu> jcater: to me, 0.4 remains stable unless & until the code mastas (j*) say otherwise
<jcater_> I think we've been pretty good at keeping 0.4.x stable
<ajmitch> well i have 0.4.3 debs for jbailey to process
<psu> doesn;t Linux do stable=even, unstable=odd
<jcater_> that's the most point releases we've done since 0.0.x
<jcater_> (which didn't count)
<ajmitch> yeah, i think that 0.4.x is pretty good
<jcater_> psu: yeah... that's a debate much akin to the documentation format debates
<ajmitch> when do you want to drop ongoing support/patches for 0.4.x?
<psu> If I was starting a project using gnue today, I'd use 0.4.x
<jcater_> after this 0.5.0 ordeal, I really am leaning towards odd/even again
<psu> and just keep an eye on things that are know to break the gfd conversion script 
<chillywilly> so ajmitch are you starting with code fromt he tarball or from CVS HEAD?
<psu> (e.g. complex triggers that go poking around in internals that they shouldn't)
<psu> and avoid them
<ajmitch> chillywilly: tarball
<jamest_> cvs head won't be broken till tonight
<jamest_> it's still the 0.4.x driver style
<chillywilly> you're syncing it up tonight?
<ajmitch> psu: well i'm being stupid & doing stuff with CVS
<jamest_> i plan to as no one screamed NO when I said I wanted to
<chillywilly> what
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> oopsie
<ajmitch> chillywilly: yes, you've not started on a ui driver, right?
<chillywilly> nope, just looked at the code some
<ajmitch> ok
<psu> jamest_ : are the project papo boys still using 0.4.x or equivalent? 
<ajmitch> jamest_ says driver writing will be easier now
<chillywilly> couple days ago I did
<psu> They are they only people who might have an issue w/broke CVS
<jcater_> psu: they are using 0.3.x or so last I checked
<jcater_> :0
<psu> ok
<chillywilly> yeek
<ajmitch> ouch
<jamest_> yeah
<jamest_> they are older version
<psu> I know they are trying to get caught up - wasn;t aa_ looking at helping StyXman re-synch?
<chillywilly> win32 driver is a pretty big deal imho, while M$ still has the desktop
<jamest_> it's a huge deal
<jamest_> however I start getting mental whenever I try and gnue on wifes win98 box
<psu> time for bed 
<chillywilly> I see...
<chillywilly> I might have similar issues
<chillywilly> wonder if wine could work...
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<chillywilly> would be nice to be able to develop on gnu/linux
Action: chillywilly pictures himself running up and downt he stairs to test it ;P
<jamest_> vnc
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> duh
<chillywilly> good idea
<chillywilly> would give me a chance to play with it
<chillywilly> what vnc software would you install on winders?
<jcater_> vnc
<ajmitch> i've got a spare box here, i might dump windows on it
<ajmitch> will need to for gtk2 driver
<ajmitch> "I've done nothing.  jamest told me to wait until he had done the commit                                                                                    
<ajmitch> before I looked at it, because so much had changed.  He hasn't replied                                                                                     
<ajmitch> to my /msg's today, so... "
<ajmitch> ok, jamest, seems like we had a deadlock situation ;)
<chillywilly> hmm, I think I need to add setup vnc to my TODO list for the day
<jamest_> ack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jamest_> that's because he's not been in here and has been msg'ing me at my home login
<ajmitch> heh
Action: ajmitch emailed him
<jamest_> I'm jamest with a _
<chillywilly> is the HOWTO a good document?
<ajmitch> yup, i figured that
<chillywilly> aw crap my konq is b0rked
<jamest_> is he ready to start?
<chillywilly> it can't find libkhtml
<ajmitch> jamest_: i'm ready to start, anyway
<ajmitch> either him or i would end up doing it
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<jamest_> what's his email?
<ajmitch> jbailey@nisa.net, i'm just asking if he'd like ot hack it, or if i should
<jamest_> tell him to msg jamest_
<jamest_> if you would :)
<ajmitch> done so
<jcater_> why no #gnuenterprise?
<jcater_> did we tick him off?
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> too distracting
<jcater_> we already scared nickr away
<havoc> bah
<jamest_> we scared someone away?
<havoc> jcater_, jamest_: Are you both on multiple machines whereever you are?
<havoc> (logged into IRC from ...)
<jamest_> i forgot to log off at home
<havoc> ah
<ajmitch> ok, jeff is sorta busy today so i've got the job
<jcater_> um
<havoc> jamest_: I use havoc_w for work :)
<jcater_> my X crashed several hours ago
<havoc> :(
<jcater_> but jcater is still here
<jcater_> and I'm too lazy to recover it
<jcater_> :)
<jamest_>  /msg jcater too much pr0n d/l again eh?
<jcater_>  /msg jamest_ there's no such thing as too much!!!!!
<havoc> heh
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<chillywilly> hi dsmith 
<dsmith> chillywilly: Greetings from the land of FreeBSD 5.0!
<chillywilly> ack ;)
<dsmith> chillywilly: I might actually have a working acpi now.
Action: dsmith kicks freebsd ports for building all of gtk just because I did a make install of gkrellm2
<chillywilly> who needs that? real men get a laptop that has both ACPI and APM ;)
<dsmith> chillywilly: But I'm very geeky and want to see my cpu temp.
<chillywilly> HEH
<chillywilly> acpi is supposed to be greatly improved in kernel 2.5.x
<dsmith> chillywilly: I've never gotten acpi to work right in Linux
<dsmith> And I don't think I'll run a 2.5 kernel either.  But I'm glas to hear it's improving.
<dsmith> s/glas/glad/
<chillywilly> 2.6.0 is probably just around the corner
<dsmith> !!
<chillywilly> dsmith: wimp
Action: dsmith admits it.
<dsmith> But I usually run Debian unstable
<chillywilly>  actually I did compile a 2.5.x kernel and I thought it was borked but you have to pgrade modutils
<chillywilly> upgrade*
<ajmitch> i compiled one but it never booted
Action: chillywilly runs debian unstable as a development machine
<ajmitch> got to "Ok, booting the kernel..." and hung there
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> mine booted bt complain about modules
<chillywilly> then I found out I needed a newer modutils, etc.
<chillywilly> and I have not bothered with it since then
<ajmitch> nah, you need a new package
<chillywilly> it was very broken though
Action: ajmitch wonders if building with gcc 2.95.4 would make any difference
<ajmitch> they totally changed the module loading & unloading code a couple of releases ago ;)
<chillywilly> yea well I didn't know there's now way I am going to subscribe to lkml
<chillywilly> I don't need to read that much crap
Action: ajmitch is not subscribed to it
<chillywilly> I thoght there was a vnc howto?
<chillywilly> thought*
<ajmitch> dunno
<ajmitch> vnc is simple anyway
<chillywilly> do you do it over ssh?
<chillywilly> well that doesn't matter for me anyway inside my own network :P
<chillywilly> don't I need some kind of vnc server running on winders if I wish to view it on this box?
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<chillywilly> hmmm, I should set it up both ways
<ajmitch> yeah
<jamest_> you need vnc on client 
<ajmitch> i usually run over ssh
<jamest_> and a web browser on the linux box
<jamest_> you'd prefer the linux viewer though
<jamest_> but it's not needed
<ajmitch> i prefer the client, rather than the java applet
<jcater_> I have never tried the java client
<jcater_> the thought of it scares me :)
<ajmitch> hhe
<jamest_> it works
<jamest_> but I prefer the client
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<jamest_> chillywilly: if you're running kde it's got a built in vnc client and server
<jamest_> in 3.1
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<dsmith> chillywilly: heh, back in the land of the Free
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<chillywilly> jamest_: oh yea
<chillywilly> jamest_: how do you enable the sucker? or does it run while the desktop is running?
<jcater_> chillywilly: in kcontrol, it's under Internet & Network --> Desktop Sharing
<chillywilly> 18172 ?        S      0:02 kdeinit: kio_uiserver
<chillywilly> oh, ok
<chillywilly> hmmm
Action: chillywilly tweaks a few settings
<jamest_> it's in it's own apt packages
<chillywilly> I am using orth's debs from #debian-kde
<jamest_> l8r
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<chillywilly> bye
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<ajmitch> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-02-10-012-26-NW-SW-PB
<ajmitch> how disappointing
<chillywilly> :(
<jcater_> "Mr Wakefield says Windows won out when support and management costs, migration timeframes and costs, and remote support options were factored in..." 
<jcater_> loosely translated, that means
<jcater_> "After Mr Wakefield returns from his Microsoft-sponsored vacation in the Caymans, he announced that Windows won out when support and management costs, migration timeframes and costs, and remote support options were factored in..."
<chillywilly> vnc is so cool
Action: chillywilly can see the winders box
<jcater_> I can understand the migration timeframes and costs argument
<ajmitch> heh
<chillywilly> woop woop
<jcater_> as that's a valid argument
<jcater_> but remote administration?
<jcater_> he's on crack
<ajmitch> jcater_: this is why GNUe needs a POS :)
<jcater_> sigh
<jcater_> gnue needs a lot of stuff
<ajmitch> yup
<jcater_> jcater needs more time too
<ajmitch> more developers to work on them would be nice
<jcater_> dude, my nick still hasn't expired
<jcater_> how fscking odd
<ajmitch> 14400 sec timeout
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<jcater_> dude
<jcater_> xchat was still running in the background
<jcater_> even though the X session crashed
<chillywilly> I really dig this vnc thing ;)
Action: jcater_ has never seen that before
Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater
<ajmitch> ah yes
<ajmitch> i've seen that happen
<chillywilly> now I can totally mess with ppl sing the winders box ;)
<chillywilly> lol
<chillywilly> krfb complains to me that it can't find kinetd
<chillywilly> bummer...
<havoc> http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DELL_DUDE_ARREST?SITE=WIMIL&SECTION=HOME
<jamest> dude
<jamest> you're going to jail
<jamest> :)
<havoc> heheh, yup
<jcater> and that, boys and girls, is why you don't want to be famous
<jcater> as any other person could probably go on thru life w/a misdemeaner and avoid it being too well known :)
<jcater> he makes associated press
<jamest> yeah, the worse we can do to you jason is post those pics from your xmas party that we got from your coworkers
<jcater> you wouldn't dare!
<jamest> which really aren't any worse than those freaky halloween ones you posted yourself
<jamest> so I'm not sure we gain anything
<jcater> lol
<jcater> oh yeah... I forgot about those
<jamest> at least you weren't the one in a dress
<jcater> true dat
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<ajmitch> tell us more
<ajmitch> please :)
<jamest> i'd post the url
<ajmitch> but you'd get in trouble?
<jamest> but I burned the drive the cache was located on
<jamest> some things are just not meant for human eyes
<ajmitch> hehe
<jamest> so, how goes gtk2?
<ajmitch> at the moment, slowly ;)
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<jamest> ajmitch: does wx run at all for you?
<ajmitch> i can check, given a few min
<jamest> i swore the tarball was functional
<jamest> but my tree is dead
<ajmitch> i presume i need to install it 
<jamest> no
<jamest> you can run from cvs
<ajmitch> you've committed?
<jamest> no
<ajmitch> hmm :)
Action: havoc just ordered a DS3
<jamest> i'm getting ready to
<jamest> well, trying to get ready to
<jamest> but I swore it worked and my tree is dead
<ajmitch> just commit, breakage can be cleaned up once it's in cvs :)
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<ajmitch> interesting changes to the driver that you've done, splitting everything out
<jamest> the idea is further down the road, like after I quit, the dynamic loading will lead to people being able to add new widget types for their local install
<jamest> this will mean a std api to the drivers and widgets which isn't completed yet
<jamest> the dialogs will work the same way
<jamest> you put a file or dir in uidrivers/_base/dialogs at it'll be loaded at form startup as part of the base set of dialogs
<ajmitch> excellent
<ajmitch> like custom graphical parts, eg embedding a graph into a form? :)
<jamest> you bet, just add that to part of the feature set for jcater's upcoming graphing lib
<jamest> he won't mind
<jamest> I'm starting to worry about jcater
<jamest> he didn't even whimper on that one
<jamest> you think we finally broke his spirit?
Action: jcater is knee-deep in zope and interchange land
<ajmitch> he's doing a graphing lib?
<jcater> you just wait, buddy!
<jcater> I've gotten you hooked on reports now!
Action: ajmitch pays homage to jcater
Action: chillywilly kicks kde
<chillywilly> I can't start krfb to save my life
<jcater> careful... kde's been known to kick back
<jamest> they don't call the panel "kicker" for nothing
Action: chillywilly cowers in fear...NOT
<jcater> of course not
<jcater> 'cause you kower in fear
<jcater> fewl
<jamest> chillywilly: i'd just grab the vnc client binary
<chillywilly> I suppose
<chillywilly> I can use the viewer though
<chillywilly> but the services bitches and says it cannot find kinetd
<chillywilly> server
<jamest> i've not had a chance to try the new kde vnc tools
<jamest> so I can't really be much help
<chillywilly> well it's pretty straight forward when it works
<chillywilly> I can see the winders desktop
<chillywilly> I just wanna be able to go the other way too
<ajmitch> oh, that
<ajmitch> that's fairly simple :)
<chillywilly> I know use the real vnc tools
<ajmitch> from the kde menu -> system -> desktop sharing
<ajmitch> for me :)
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<chillywilly> ajmitch: mine is b0rked
<chillywilly> I just told you
<SachaS> morning
Action: chillywilly smacks ajmitch about with a northern pike
<jamest> chillywilly: why not use the ones in sid instead of from somewhere else?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: so fix it!
<chillywilly> I thought the kde 3.x in sid was not fully done
<ajmitch> stop complaining!
<jamest> that's what I run
<chillywilly> shutup
<chillywilly> why the heck doesn't it want to upgrade to these debs then?
<jamest> it may not be done but everything i've tried works for me
<chillywilly> hmm hmm hmm
<jamest> you have to manually dpkg -r some things 
<chillywilly> all of these kde debs depend on one metapackage
<jamest> at least I did when going from the KL debs to the sid debs
<chillywilly> so I can pull the whole thing out
<chillywilly> apt-get --purge remove kde-cvs-snapshot
<chillywilly> ok, I'll give sid a try...always better to have the official stuff anyway, imho
<chillywilly> is psi in sid?
<Vee2d2> psi - Jabber client using Qt
<Vee2d2> looks like it
Action: chillywilly rips kde out
<chillywilly> yoink!
<chillywilly> mmm, I still got almost like a whole bag of beef jerky man
Action: chillywilly got caught up in the moment and forgot about it
<chillywilly> what is kde-gcc-3.2?
<ajmitch> kde compiled with gcc 3.2?
<chillywilly> hopefully
Action: chillywilly is forced to use dselect and is hating it
<jamest> why dselect?
<jamest> apt-get install konqueror
<jamest> will get a huge part of kde on your system
<ajmitch> because chillywilly likes the pain
<jamest> ah
<chillywilly> I want to make sure I get it all
<jamest> you know you could probably get paid good money for that
<chillywilly> seems like it wants to rip some stuff out
<jamest> pr0npix.com
<jamest>   hot wax
<jamest>   clothes pins
<jamest>   dselect user
<chillywilly> lol
<jamest> choose your category
<jamest> "um, dselect"
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you ever get your apt repo back up?
<jamest> forwarding you to sadisticFreaks.pronpics.com
<ajmitch> chillywilly: of course
<chillywilly> so I can uncomment it then?
Action: chillywilly gets a new pnet-compiler and trecc
Action: ajmitch chuckles
<ajmitch> it's working!
<chillywilly> man your connection is slow
<chillywilly> 10k is all I am gettin;
<ajmitch> no kidding
<ajmitch> so give me some $$ for a better connection
<chillywilly> HAH
<chillywilly> you are funny
<chillywilly> I don't have any $$
<jamest> chillywilly: why would you pull from NZ?
<chillywilly> cause these debs aren't in sid
<chillywilly> afaik
<chillywilly> ajmitch made them'
<ajmitch> it's still that chillywilly never uses, but installs ;)
<ajmitch> s/still/stuff/
<chillywilly> it's his personal apt repo
<chillywilly> I have used pnet
<chillywilly> I ran the examples on it ;)
<jamest> ruminant-worm-crax-0.1.2.deb
<jamest> stuff like that?
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> kiwis-are-fuzzy-0.1.3.deb
Action: ajmitch sighs
<jamest> ya know we luv ya ajmitch
<jamest> at least until the gtk2 driver is complete
<chillywilly> he can dish it out but he can't take it ;)
<chillywilly> ok, I have *some* if kde 3.1 from sid
<Vee2d2> I dont think it's all there yet, is it?
<jamest> if = incredibly fine kde 3.1?
<chillywilly> probably not
<Vee2d2> apt-cache show kde still says 2.2
<chillywilly> I blame jamest 
<jamest> Vee2d2: I'm using it w/o issue
<chillywilly> blah
<jamest> it's in sid
<chillywilly> silly packagers
<chillywilly> the never get their files straight always overwriting each others files
<jamest> bash-2.05b$ apt-cache show kdebase
<jamest> Package: kdebase
<jamest> Version: 4:3.1.0+rel+kl-1
<chillywilly> that looks like a karolina deb
<Vee2d2> when jcater told me it was in sid, I sucked it down and turned it on, but the splash said 2.2.. I noted the next day comments on debianplanet that said some of the packages were lagging behind
<jamest> that's what I was just thinking
<jamest> the mirrors were definately beind
Action: chillywilly glares at jamest 
<jamest> chillywilly: 3.1 is in sid
<chillywilly> ok
<jcater> it is in sid
<jamest> i know it is
<chillywilly> I'll take your word for it
<jcater> I had to comment out my mirror
<jcater> as it wasn't showing there
<jamest> yeah
<jamest> jcater and I cheated iirc
<jamest> as the us was down but uk had it
Action: chillywilly is getting 3.1 debs from sid
<chillywilly> anyone see the kmplayer stuff?
<chillywilly> that looks cool
<chillywilly> a konq plugin and a kde gui for mplayer
<jamest> no
<chillywilly> prolly have to compile it
<jamest> pwd
Action: Vee2d2 ponders grocery shoppin
<chillywilly> krdc isn't even in sid
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<jamest> calvin:~# apt-get install krdc
<jamest> Reading Package Lists... Done
<jamest> B
<jamest> The following extra packages will be installed:
<jamest>   libslp1
<jamest> The following NEW packages will be installed:
<jamest>   krdc libslp1
<chillywilly> not what I got
<chillywilly> what about kdenetwork?
<chillywilly> kdeutils is there
<chillywilly> what apt lines you using?
<ajmitch> ajmitch:/etc/bind# apt-get install krdc
<ajmitch> Reading Package Lists... Done
<ajmitch> Building Dependency Tree... Done
<ajmitch> esands: Couldn't find package krdc
<ajmitch> urgh, silly xchat autocomplete
<jamest> fsck
Action: ajmitch did apt-get update only a few min ago
<jamest> looks like I may be running a blend of sid and kl here instead of pure sid
<chillywilly> right
<jamest> that's probably not a good thing
<chillywilly> you have a nice mess
<jamest> thank you
<jamest> i'm pretty sure jcater is pure sid though
<chillywilly> but can he dl krdc and krbf ?
<chillywilly> the server and client
<chillywilly> desktop sharing client
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> this is becoming a serious PITA
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<derek> yeah about as convienent as changing the window manager in gnome2
<chillywilly> gnome 2 drives me crazy...I am tired of it
<chillywilly> wooo, a 500K spike
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<jamest> anyone care to update their cvs before it breaks?
<jcater> done
<chillywilly> are you pure sid mr. cater?
<jcater> possibly
<jcater> err, not here at work actually
<jcater> that was home
Action: ajmitch scrambles for the cvs
<jamest> move it move it move it
<jamest> yer momma can scrable faster boy
<jamest> scramble even
<ajmitch> heh
Action: jamest has never seen yer momma play scabble so I can't comment on that
<jamest> argh
<jamest> scrabble
<jamest> with mad tie-ping skilz like mine you just know this commit will be good
<chillywilly> hmmm, no games in sid either :(
<chillywilly> that mni golf game is kinda fun, imho
<chillywilly> mini
<jamest> thanks to jcater (@Q$!$!@#) cvs is tagged at pre-jamest-ui-muckup
<chillywilly> HEH
<jcater> well, I like to use meaningful names
<jamest> commited
<jamest> ah crap
<jamest> wtf
<chillywilly> not here plz
<jamest> it allowed me to commit a cvs conflict
<chillywilly> interesting
<jamest> i prefer the term shitty
<jamest> but interesting works i guess
Action: chillywilly sobs as he wants to play kolf
<jamest> games?
<jamest> games?!?!?
<chillywilly> it's a kde mini gofl game
<chillywilly> golf
<chillywilly> don't worry
<jamest> emacs is your game engine fool!  GNUe is your course!
<chillywilly> there's always zsnes
<jamest> or is that gnue is your club
<jcater> vim!
[19:58] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<chillywilly> actually I am waiting for the debs to dl
<jamest> fsck
<jamest> wtf happened
<jamest> now it's telling me it's having to add more files
<chillywilly> emacs!
[19:59] Last message repeated 4 time(s).
<derek> gnue == mulligan
<chillywilly> HEH
<chillywilly> kolf needs to work over the net
<chillywilly> that would kick butt
<havoc> what is kolf
<havoc> ?
<chillywilly> a kde mini golf game
<jamest> mini-golf 
<havoc> ah
<jamest> putt putt golf
<havoc> hey, I have it :)
<chillywilly> I think it's called kolf
<chillywilly> :)
<havoc> chillywilly: export DISPLAY :)
<havoc> chillywilly: but I'm sure you mean multiplayer
<chillywilly> yea but that's not multiplayer! ;P
<chillywilly> right
<havoc> chillywilly: write a multiplayer minigolf java or flash game
<derek> sigh slow internet too painful bbl
<chillywilly> havoc: yahoo pool is pretty fun
<jamest> ok, commited for real this time
<chillywilly> kde is almost at the same version as gcc
<jamest> anyone care to cvs up and try intro.gfd?
<jamest> or dialog.gfd
<chillywilly> my system is installing debs right now...
<jamest> here victim, victim, victim
<chillywilly> have ajmitch do it ;)
<jamest> ajmitch: you really don't want that stable (sort of) cvs head do you?
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<KeithJagr> hello
<chillywilly> howdy
<KeithJagr> ;)
<chillywilly> brb
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<KeithJagr> jcater: I read in the last KC that work is going ro change the win32 interface...
<KeithJagr> how are things going?
<KeithJagr> in that issue
<jamest> it's still in progress
<jamest> according to cvsweb a new ui driver model was commited 8 minutes ago
<jamest> this does not have a win32 module yet
<jamest> but it will hopefully be a step in making one easier to create
<KeithJagr> hopefully
<KeithJagr> so are you discarding wx?
<jamest> yes and no
<KeithJagr> in favour of gtk ?
<jamest> it's still the first implementation in the new setup
<jamest> ajmitch and jbailey are working on a gtk2 driver 
<jcater>  I don't foresee us dropping wx support
<jamest> I'm working on the wx and I've started a qt driver
<jcater> we'll just offer additional native models
<jamest> i'm hoping that by the weekend the widget and ui driver interfaces will be will defined
<KeithJagr> what is the porpuse of using 3 GUI builders at a time?
<jcater> depending on your platform, of course
<jamest> i'm doing it becase it will help keep the driver system more ui independent
<jamest> they are working on it as I think gtk is the company std where they are
<jamest> i think
<jamest> designer will remain wx based 
<KeithJagr> good, but I would think that at this point, more energy is required on sharpen Tools, rather than working in giving support to all those GUIs
<KeithJagr> just a thought though
<jamest> the ui changes are part of new functionality being built into the forms client
<jamest> as well as a cleanup of the designer/forms interaction
<KeithJagr> I see
<jamest> the tools are still receiving effort as well
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<KeithJagr> so, talking about the win32 GUI, when do you think the improved version will be ready to test ?
<jamest> hmmmmm
<jamest> i'm hoping to have the new drivers done this week or next
<KeithJagr> I agree that the current one tends to suck a bit
<jamest> if the win32 widgets are not radically different in design I would hope it wouldn't take long at all
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<jamest> if we can someone willing to step up to the plate to do it
<chillywilly> what really suck is no kmix or krecord
<chillywilly> :(
<jamest> from what I've read though the gtk2 and qt drivers are supposed to run on win32
<jamest> i think qt is supposed to look native IIRC
<KeithJagr> will that imply Forms wrking out-of -the-box in gtk2?
<chillywilly> I wanted to record some guitar and throw some tracks together
<jamest> that is the goal
<KeithJagr> I've never tryed gtk2
<jamest> it was donated but incomplete
<KeithJagr> have you tested FLTK?
<KeithJagr> it seems very nice
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<jamest> if you'd like a fltk driver would hopefully be easy to add
<jamest> the wx driver in cvs is the new model 
<jamest> it's still in flux as the interface isn't fully defined
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<KeithJagr> I see
<jamest> but you sould just have to write a wrapper UIdriver.py and 1 py file for each widget
<jamest> http://subversions.gnu.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/gnue/forms/src/uidrivers/wx/widgets/label.py?rev=1.1&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
<jamest> is an example
<jamest> sigh, i have to go now
<KeithJagr> how many widgets are there used currently?
<KeithJagr> ok
<jamest> box, button, entry, label, page, scrollbar (?)
<jamest> with various styles that implement variations like checkboxes, dropdowns, readonly entries
<jamest> l8r
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<ajmitch> curses, just got back... i wanted to ask jamest about stuff :(
<SachaS_> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> jcater: do you know much about the rtf template->pdf reports filter that jamest talked about at one stage?
<jcater> he and I both use it in production
<ajmitch> excellent
<jcater> you basically create an RTF file, and everywhere you want a field inserted fomr the database
<jcater> denote it as ::myfield1::
<jcater> e.g., Invoice # ::invoiceno::
<ajmitch> it seems like the quickest way for me to get printable & viewable reports on windows
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<KeithJagr> jcater: where is that reports template?
<KeithJagr> ?
<chillywilly> quick way to remove kde
<chillywilly> COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | grep ^ii | grep kde | awk '{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y remove
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> oh and
<chillywilly> COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | grep ^ii | grep arts | awk '{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y remove
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<ajmitch> wouldn't dpkg --get-selections be easier?
<chillywilly> that would give you everything wouldn't it?
<ajmitch> well so does dpkg -l :)
<ajmitch> dpkg --get-selections |grep -v deinstall
<chillywilly> yea but I used grep and awk to get all kde packages
<ajmitch> i know that
<chillywilly> so wtf is your point then?
<ajmitch> fine, i'll leave it
<chillywilly> did you have a better way to do it?
<chillywilly> oh nm
<chillywilly> use --get-selections
<chillywilly> same difference
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> yours is longer ;)
<chillywilly> erm...
<chillywilly> man that can be taken our of context
<chillywilly> ot
<chillywilly> out
<chillywilly> lol
Action: ajmitch tries to recall the key sequence for vertical split frames
<chillywilly> in konq?
<ajmitch> emacs
<chillywilly> oh
<ajmitch> horizontal split is easy
<chillywilly> ja, but I can't remember that one either
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Action: ajmitch looks on the emacs refcard.ps
<chillywilly> you hacking gtk2 driver?
<ajmitch> argh, it's upside down :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<chillywilly> I am gonna start on win32 I think
<ajmitch> i want to have old & new ones beside each other
<ajmitch> alright
<chillywilly> if I ever get my environment back in shape
Action: ajmitch pats ggv
<chillywilly> it's safe to copy the current cvs HEAD wx driver?
<ajmitch> probably not
<chillywilly> man
<ajmitch> hmm, i tried C-x 3...
<chillywilly> this needs to hurry the frell up
<ajmitch> it's probably breaking everything
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<Vee2d2> weeee! *smash* *crash* *boom*
<Vee2d2> <jcater> e.g., Invoice # ::invoiceno::
<Vee2d2> that sounds super nifty and reminds me I need to play with reports sometime
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<havoc> stupid gnome
<havoc> if you're missing a font, it's crippled and completely unusable
<havoc> extremely poor design
<havoc> can't even fall back on a default
<chillywilly> why are you using it?
<chillywilly> my kde is kinda b0rked
<havoc> I'm trying to debug some gtk crap
<havoc> but I can't get the gnome-control-center to start cuz it can't find the font it wants
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<havoc> If I ever meet a spammer, I am going to beat them most severely
<havoc> I will get downright medieval on them
<havoc> No warning, no conversation, no mercy
<havoc> just a major ass-whoopin
<havoc> it's especially annoying to get useless spam that has no contact or product info
<havoc> basically random email that can serve no purpose
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<Vee2d2> I get those pretty often.. I call 'em troll spam as I guess they're trying to encite a response and collecting valid addresses to sell/spam
<havoc> Vee2d2: but there's no way to respond
<havoc> there is no link, and no real address
<Vee2d2> the ones I've seen are coming from hotmail/yahoo addresses, I didnt even bother attempting a reply so I didnt know if they were valid or not
<dsmith> havoc: What if you actually wanted their stuff?
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<havoc> dsmith: no way to contact them
<havoc> dsmith: plus, there is no mention of anything for sale at all
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<dsmith> havoc: They have got to be just out to annoy people.
<havoc> or they're just retards who can't even spam effectively
<dsmith> heh
<dsmith> "I dunno Boss, we didn't get *any* responses from that last mailing."
<dsmith> "Must be a crummy list of addresses"
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<dsmith> chillywilly: hey
<chillywilly> hi
<chillywilly> X crashed
<chillywilly> ;P
<dsmith> chillywilly: That's what you get for running 2.5 kernels. ;^)
<chillywilly> I'm not running 2.5
<chillywilly> it's a knowsn kde bug apparently
<chillywilly> if you mistype something int he run dialog you can get X to crash
<havoc> I am doing something potentially very silly right now
<havoc> FTP upgrade from mandrake cooker
<havoc> hmmm, this will be interesting
<chillywilly> what I did was try to run a program that wasn't installed
<dsmith> chillywilly: I knew kde was trying to be too much like windows.
<havoc> dsmith: still much better than gnome2
<havoc> better meaning stability, usability and polish
<havoc> and also much better design
<havoc> gnome is a mess
<dsmith> I agree that kde is more "together"
<Vee2d2> them's fightin words
<havoc> as a professional developer who takes engineering very seriously, gnome "offends" me
<havoc> gnome2 rather
<dsmith> I actually just use fluxbox.  None of that "desktop" spooge for me.
<havoc> to me programming is half engineering, and half art, gnome2 is neither
<chillywilly> gnome2 sucks
<havoc> big time
<havoc> unbelievably, KDE actually outperforms Gnome2 now
<chillywilly> yep
<dsmith> havoc: I've always stayed away from gmome apps.  I just stick to gtk apps when I can.
<havoc> dsmith: me too
Action: dsmith uses galeon and sylpheed.
<havoc> dsmith: the only two I really need are xchat and galeon
<havoc> dsmith: I used to use sylpheed, but I use kmail now
<havoc> both are adequate for my needs
<dsmith> Yeah, xchat too.  But not xchat-gnome!
<chillywilly> mutt
<dsmith> havoc: Does kmail do imap?
<havoc> dsmith: but I use mandrake for testing and support purposes for my business
<havoc> dsmith: yes, that's what I use kmail for, IMAP
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<havoc> mandrake uses primarily KDE, but for some reason their control panel is seriously dependent on gnome/gtk crap
<dsmith> gpg too eh?
<havoc> dsmith: I don't know
Action: dsmith installs kmail to try it out.
<chillywilly> mutt!
<havoc> dsmith: It is part of kdebase I think
<chillywilly> console forever!
<chillywilly> ;)
<havoc> chillywilly: You don't ever wanna do consulting do you? ;)
<dsmith> Not yet.  Broken pakages right now.
<havoc> dsmith: ah
<havoc> chillywilly: I need to use the crap I recomend
<chillywilly> havoc: wtf does what *I* use have to do with that?
<havoc> chillywilly: it also helps me provide better support
<dsmith> havoc: Sylpheed does *exactly* what I want.  And it's very fast.
<havoc> chillywilly: how can you know what to set clueless users up with if you don't use the stuff?
<dsmith> havoc: But I need to keep up on stuff for other people.
<havoc> dsmith: yes, I used it
<havoc> dsmith: exactly what I do/am doing
<chillywilly> havoc: I can handle kmail just fine
<dsmith> I used to have my kids using wordperfect, but it stopped working for some reason, so now I have them use kword.
<havoc> chillywilly: it's easier for me to have a program setup the same way I'd set it up for a client so that when they call I am basically looking at the same thing they are
<chillywilly> and how many customer do you have on a "Linux" desktop?
<havoc> chillywilly: customers or users?
<chillywilly> what's the difference?
<havoc> 5 customers, ~200 users
<havoc> adding another ~250 users in 4 months
<dsmith> Our whole company is m$ free.  Everyone uses linux.
<havoc> dsmith: mine too :)
<chillywilly> heh
<dsmith> havoc: Where are you located?
<havoc> dsmith: and I'm gradually moving my clients to linux, where appropriate
<havoc> dsmith: WI, US
<dsmith> havoc: Ok, we are in OH.
<havoc> dsmith: heh, my rents are there
<havoc> in Lebanon
<havoc> and my little sister too
<chillywilly> "rents"
Action: dsmith kind of rmemebers this chat from before
<chillywilly> that sounds funny
<havoc> heh
Action: havoc is just a big kid
Action: chillywilly is just annoyed
<chillywilly> I need some sleep
<chillywilly> konsole: relocation error: /usr/lib/konsole.so: undefined symbol: _ZN8KProcess3ptyEv
<chillywilly> :(
<chillywilly> grrr
<dsmith> havoc: What do you guys use for shared filesystems?  Samba? nfs?  Something else?
<havoc> dsmith: a mix
<havoc> dsmith: but mostly samba
<havoc> and ftp/sftp
<havoc> KDE makes it easy
<havoc> int he konq filemanager you can use ssh:// urls
<havoc> there is also KBear, one badass GUI FTP/SFTP program
<dsmith> havoc: Yes, the new 3.1 seems nicer than it was before.
<havoc> I haven't figured out lisa yet though :(
<havoc> still workin on that
<dsmith> kept asking me for my password *ALL* the time.
<dsmith> for smaba
<havoc> dsmith: lisa did?
<havoc> ah
<dsmith> konq
<dsmith> smb://yada
<havoc> lisa would be cool if I could get it to work
Action: dsmith doesn't know what lisa is
<havoc> it's a network discover daemon using TCP only to create a kind of "network neighborhood" that works w/ konq
<dsmith> havoc: DO you know of any nfs "browsers"?
<havoc> dsmith: mope, but check freshmeat
<dsmith> havoc: I've been thinking about "trim" clients for schools.  Aps are on the local disk, but home dirs are on the fileserver.  Any box can be remade with a network boot/install.
<havoc> dsmith: I'll be doing an LSTP based system very soon
<havoc> diskless clients
<chillywilly> jcater is the master at that
<chillywilly> he runs an entire call center on a couple LTSp boxen, IIRC
<chillywilly> LTSP
<dsmith> havoc: Yeah.  I'm not convinced that totally diskless is the way to go yet.
<havoc> dsmith: it all depend son the specific situation
<dsmith> havoc: but-of-course
--- Tue Feb 11 2003