rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-125.client.insightBB.com) joined #gnuenterprise. rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-125.client.insightBB.com) left irc: Client Quit reading job listings.. came across: Psychiatric Social Worker, which I somehow read as: Psychotic Social Worker, which almost sounded interesting.. =/ Vee2d2: thinking of applying? I was until I relized they werent looking for psychotic personel.. =/ :) you're up late you too true dat Action: jcater is looking forward to a 3-day weekend :) those are sweet.. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) got netsplit. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) got netsplit. paqan (whaq@202.155.120.168) got netsplit. ajmitch (~ajmitch@wlg1-port27.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) got netsplit. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~ajmitch@wlg1-port27.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. paqan (whaq@202.155.120.168) returned to #gnuenterprise. s'pose it's gnap time.. Action: Vee2d2 wallers off to sleep reinhard (~reinhard@M699P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello hello Arturas hi Reinhard bbl reinhard (~reinhard@M699P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand" SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-149.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Bobacus (~rob@pc3-cmbg2-5-cust245.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is back (gone 31:26:12) * jcater is getting ready for a 3 day gnue coding spree this brings to mind a monty python skit where everyone is dying of the plague and the officials come by with a wheel barrow saying "Bring out your dead" since the topic says "cvs is on fire" if jcater is the 'official' is he spouting "bring out your bugs?" ;) Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Bye :)" Vee2d2 or jcater you around for cups questions? dont know how much longer I have 'till wife takes over this computer.. whatcha got? sorry.. wife taking over.. =/ dang Action: Bobacus knows a bit about cups mainly i got installed and working locally i.e. machine has printer connected to parallel port i want another machine on my network to be able to use it i installed cups on the second machine and setup as http protocol in the admin it seems to send the job but gets message that printer is busy but printer is NOT busy im wondering if its a permissions problem Description: Cool Ink Jet Printer Location: Da Office Printer State: processing, accepting jobs. "Printer busy; will retry in 10 seconds..." Device URI: http://192.168.0.100:631/printers/hp842c wild thing is running cups 1.1.18 on both machines but the user interace on the cups on one pc is borked images dont show So, why don't you just run the regular lpr daemon? and it crashed 'constantly' jbailey: sigh I've never seen a need to switch from it. i was doing that and had problems no one was here to help that knew about it You were asking about lprng 40 people told me to switch to cups so i did as EVERY time i have a printing problem everyone says 'switch to cups' now that i have i can find no help ;) seems just no one knows much about printing in linux fight to get it workign and dont touch it seems to be the moral of the story actually cups seems pretty straightforward just i think the version of perl or something is freaked on one of my boxes hmm i've found cups to be okay. what os are you running it on? debian... Action: derek wasnt aware there were other os'es Can you print ok via cups on the pc to which the printer is connected? cept that new one called the gnu/hurd which version ;-) yeah cups 1.1.18 debian sid doing the unspeakable apt-get upgrade on sid on machine that printer is connected too psu (psu@public1-wear2-3-cust32.midd.broadband.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Have you tried printing from the 2nd PC via CUPS on the 1st? (set CUPS_SERVER to the 1st PC) not sure what you are sasking i tried to print from 2nd PC via cups yes i.e. i configured on the 2nd pc a printer (add printer) and used http://192.168.0.1:631/printer/hp842c or whatever Device URI: http://192.168.0.100:631/printers/hp842c is the 2nd machine Is the printer set up on cups on both pcs ok Device URI: parallel:/dev/lp0 is the first pc hp842c is the name if i print from second machine it shows job in 2nd machine 'queue' but it never makes it to 1st machine's queue What do the logs say? Printer State: processing, accepting jobs. "Printer busy; will retry in 10 seconds..." is what the UI says on 2nd machine /var/log/cups/* Printer State: idle, accepting jobs. "Ready to print." is what first machine says ----- I [15/Feb/2003:09:49:37 -0700] Started "/usr/lib/cups/cgi-bin/printers.cgi" (pid=15725) I [15/Feb/2003:09:49:37 -0700] Job 2 queued on 'hpdj842c' by ''. I [15/Feb/2003:09:49:37 -0700] Started filter /usr/lib/cups/filter/pstops (PID 15726) for job 2. I [15/Feb/2003:09:49:37 -0700] Started filter /usr/lib/cups/filter/pstoraster (PID 15727) for job 2. I [15/Feb/2003:09:49:37 -0700] Started filter /usr/lib/cups/filter/rastertoprinter (PID 15728) for job 2. I [15/Feb/2003:09:49:37 -0700] Started backend /usr/lib/cups/backend/http (PID 15730) for job 2. I [15/Feb/2003:09:49:45 -0700] Started "/usr/lib/cups/cgi-bin/printers.cgi" (pid=15731) I [15/Feb/2003:09:49:57 -0700] Started "/usr/lib/cups/cgi-bin/printers.cgi" (pid=15732) I [15/Feb/2003:09:50:58 -0700] Started "/usr/lib/cups/cgi-bin/printers.cgi" (pid=15739) I [15/Feb/2003:10:03:41 -0700] Started "/usr/lib/cups/cgi-bin/printers.cgi" (pid=15987) ------ error_log hpdj842c 1 [15/Feb/2003:09:47:38 -0700] 0 1 hpdj842c 1 [15/Feb/2003:09:49:26 -0700] 0 1 hpdj842c 2 [15/Feb/2003:09:49:38 -0700] 0 1 latitude:/var/log/cups# page_log access_log doesnt seem to have much worth pasting just http requests are they all '200's or are there other codes e.g. 404/401 all 304 i think and 200 images look to be 304 other items 200 ok. What about the 1st pc (with the printer connected)? wtf Possible DoS attack - more than 10 clients connecting form 192.168.0.103 x.x.x.103 is second pc mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ls bwahahahaha! sup Bobacus: odd in access_log on 1st machine hey derek ltosof requests from 192.168.0.103 (2nd machine) all getting 403 in 10 second increments ;) derek: I never said convert to cups 403=forbidden IIRC, so check your permissions in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf and see if you can access it using a web browser from the other pc jcater: you werent there :) ? see if i can access what from webbrowser from other pc? check /etc/cupsd.conf on which pc check /etc/cupsd.conf on 192.168.0.1 use a web browser on 192.168.0.103 to connect to http://192.168.0.1:631/ Forbidden You don't have permission to access the resource on this server. is what i get if x.x.x.103 tries to bind to x.x.x.100:631/admin or even / what about /printers ? nope no access best i can tell all access is commented out in cupsd.conf and says anonymous is default (I assume that you're not using a proxy) In /etc/cupsd.conf on 192.168.0.1 you need to find and add 'Allow From 192.168.0.0/24' or whatever's appropriate for your network if you see what I mean will Allow From 127.0.0.1, 192.168.0.0/24 work? i.e. will a "," work to separate blocks On my PC I've just got 2 Allow From lines, which works or do i need to make separate "location" entries? ok will do that restarting cups hmmm Description: Cool Ink Jet Printer Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection Location: Da Office Printer State: processing, accepting jobs. "Printer busy; will retry in 10 seconds..." Device URI: http://192.168.0.100:631/printers/hp842c same thing still get the 403 hmm in my cupsd.conf I have Order Deny,Allow Deny From All Allow From 127.0.0.1 Allow From 192.168.2.0/24 Then the other 's are commented out until which is: # # You definitely will want to limit access to the administration functions. # The default configuration requires a local connection from a user who # is a member of the system group to do any admin tasks. You can change # the group name using the SystemGroup directive. # AuthType Basic AuthClass System ## Restrict access to local domain Order Deny,Allow Deny From All Allow From 127.0.0.1 #Encryption Required Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hmm Description: Cool Ink Jet Printer Location: Da Office Printer State: processing, accepting jobs. "Connected to 192.168.0.100..." Device URI: http://192.168.0.100:631/printers/hp842c showing process but still not printing wait its printing or at least making noise and flashing lights i think we mabye on to something hooray :) ok when i added the allow lines originally just did so to their sample which had Encryption IfRequested Satisfy All as soon as i commented those out and restarted all was well just incase you help someone in the future many thanks Action: derek has to get honey do's done bbiab cups is quite nice actually yes i've had a lot of success, particulary with the foomatic stuff. And it's nice to be able to print directly from Win2k/XP (though I'm having issues with the foomatic ppd files on win2k at the mo) reinhard (~reinhard@M699P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. What can people recommend for rapidly producing html forms that access a database? Has anyone tried running gune-forms in the IE with the ActiveX Python control? 2 separate questions :) but really I was wondering if it was worth me trying to help the HTML gnue client or write something custom using an existing framework e.g. EmbPerl hi Bobacus there have been several "false starts" with an HTML client java, javascript, php but the best way forward is to write an HTML UI plug in reinhard (~reinhard@M699P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) that works the same as the wxPython, curses, GTK plug ins i.e. uses as much of the normal forms client as poss reinhard (~reinhard@M699P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Main issue is that no-one has really had an "itch to scratch" in this area, so no real progress so far. http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/HTMLClient.txt represents one of our core developer's thoughts If you have the interest/enthusiasm, and at least some knowledge of python I'm sure that getting a GNUe HTML UI up should be easier than home-brewing something as you have the whole of this channel to help you and it would be a "big win" for GNUe as well and easier for you as you have all the rest of the GNUe infrastrcture (e.g. the database access and other groovy stuff in GNUe Common) dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. rather than start from scratch. anyway I'm still harrassing jamest about the pieces I need for the HTML ui although is someone wanted to dive in, I woudl cheerfully step aside. There's a few important pieces: 1) There's no concept in HTML of a fixed grid layout. You can use the fUgly hack that is in phpforms, but you lose all accessiblity, and basically don't respect the medium you're on. 20 To maintain good accessiblity, the labels need to be associated somehow with the input box. While HTML will be handy for people not wanting to use a client, I don't think it should be designed with PCs in mind, but more designed for the palmtop market. So, for inventory control and stuff, where the user would want to edit the form on a cellphone or other such portable, low screen quality device. Also, notably small screen. I also see the HTML UI being ideal for complying with the US (I can't remember which statute) requirements for accessibility. Because HTML degrades gracefully (when done right), it's ideal for large print, brail terminals, screen readers, etc. Hmm. HTML would also be useful where the users are running computers not under the control of the sysadmins - e.g. external services I suspect that's a pretty rare case, though. I think then it would still be better to use an appserver driver on a native forms client. Like, even if that forms client wound up being Java based. HTML isn't really suitable for serious input. But I think ideally the forms client in general should be small and lightweight enough that someone could double client on an icon in a 'run from this localtion' type of deal and have it DTRT. Ideally a gnue forms client would come as standard in windoze :) But basically *my* use of an html/web gnue forms client would be to simplify providing web access to a few facilities - I would be using it as a tool for a custom app rather than as part of a ERP package I suspect that my the time Gnue because standard in Windows, everyone would be running GNU/Linux (and in Debian, gnue-forms is included. *g*) Okay, so for your app, you're not talking about hardcore usage, but casual usage. LIke someone wouldn't be expected to hammer on this day in day out? Actually, even that, with clever use of stylesheets should be possible. I tend to think that a 'javascript' client would be a different client than an 'html' client I Guess. Using javascript, a tcp connection could be made back to a master database (or an appserver). But all of a sudden you're asking the client to do all of the forms functionality. And that would be *ugly*, because it's a complete port. The average user would probably use it less often than once a month :) so it's certainly not a "hard-core" app I could explain what this is for... Basically we have a custom database-driven network management system, and the network is used by students in their bedrooms, and is hence an unusual system, and we try and to our utmost to automate the common stuff to cut down on the number of requests to deal with manually Bobacus: The other solution, if the end-users are at all computer literate so the usage of this web interface is going to be fairly light psu: hahaha would be to use the "normal" Forms client as you could just take the normal *.exe install file include the forms definitions in it and Bob's your mother's brother ;-) is there a forms client for Apple Macs? Seriously, if you can install Word, Excel or Tomb Raider, you can install GNUe Bobacus: the main forms client should work on Macs too, as wxPython is platform independant I know there have been some discussions on the mail lists that suggest the "should" may be a bit fuxxy at the moment That idea could work, but sometimes users may want to do things from random other computers. I'd rather maintain a server-side system than have to maintain clients as well I'll have to think about this some more though. dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." Action: Bobacus thinks, "I'll need a mediator between the client and database, because users must only be able to view records about their own computers. I could put this in triggers/validation rules on a hypothetical server-based form, or use appserver" If you want to do this soon, a server-based form is probably a better bet. psu (psu@public1-wear2-3-cust32.midd.broadband.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) Has anyone started coding such a ui yet? No, I've just spent alot of time thinking about it. And going over code with Jamest. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: you do lots of printing what is good price for double sided printing (color) 8-1/2x11? printing service? or a laser printer? if the latter, HP has a new line that is really affordable if the former, that very much depends on the quantity also, 4-color (full-color) or spot colors (black + blue, etc) printing service probably 'cheaper' service i.e. non profit dealing with wanting to print stuff im curious (wild ballpark) what costs might be hmmm if you'd asked me at work, I would pull our file we don't print many low-quantity full-color peices i.e., our full-color stuff is usually in 400,000 to 750,000 pieces at a time which puts them in the $0.01 range but for spot color I'm thinking $40/M for around 2000 pieces but I can't remember exactly... would have to look if you are wanting full color (not just spot color) in lower quantities, some place like Pips (cheaper copyshop like Kinkos) would probably be your best bet as lots of smaller printshops that would handle a smaller quantity can't reliably do full color unless they own digital (laser) equipment but then again, I have no idea what quantities or specs you are looking for that being said, though depending on the non-profit (is it local?) many of the non-profits I've been involved in have gotten INCREDIBLE discounts on printing when using a local small printshop (i.e., probably at the printer's cost or less) but I've never seen the invoices for those, just been told that just as long as your group sends a followup letter confirming their charity (for tax reasons) shoot, in our old small church, a local printshop did all of our bulletins for free) jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" hmmmm i will DEFINITELY have to investigate that reinhard (~reinhard@M699P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "There's always one more imbecile than you expect" hi dtm (~dtm@adsl-66.218.46.51.dslextreme.com) joined #gnuenterprise. herrow. what it is yo what it be? oh, you know stuff oh! and occasionally things here and there sorta li'l bit o this and li'l bit o that whiiired and so forth yeah Action: chillywilly smacks dtm around cause he deserves it whoa thx dood np anytime yeah apparently! :) you think I should use the logical volume manager in my server to manage the rest of my new fat HD? ;) yes ok you ever use it? i heard that redhat 8.0's installer can install LVM automatically so that's a good sign for its quality no i haven't. i just researched it briefly a while back and they'd jsut worked out bugs in conjunction with lvm and software raid I have about 117GB free i determined that i'd use lvm only for partition type things and software raid for everything else I'm not going RAID though I've only got one drive so it's pretty pointless yeah but like later on, you could add another drive and either make it RAID1 or a single expanded volume linear-style.... IN RUNTIME well in the runtime after having shut down for hd installation! unless it's firewire or usb. heh LVM lets you expand volumes in runtime but RAID is only good for redundancy imho if one of your drives fails the box keeps on ticking that's about the only reason I see to use it software raid includes linear mode and raid5 which are for volume extension so there ya go I know it has volume exapnsion that bt what's the point when you can just use LVM and have one less thing to configure? s/that// if I have more then one drive I'd consider RAID...otherwise it's just AID hehe well one would want raid5+lvm so you get redundancy, collective single-volume space, and dynamic resizing ideally in a universe beyond my material means HEH hey chillywilly, you should hack on DCL. coz i said. the twilight zone? more specifically, i should tell you what to do and you should do it. um...heh for this is the way of thiings !! and then you woke up we have specific needs, you see hehhe ;P you should port DCL to gnue and make a full browser-based presentation driver for gnue so we get dcl with supah-powahz and a browser UI that would be really really fun woulnd't it and then we could manage the rest of gnue better and everyone would love you even more than they already do which is a *lot* you're sos funny no one *here* loves me great! i'm glad you liike it so go ahead and do it and i'll watch i mean, help i love you chillywilly and i love you like noone else can, so you should do what i say. lol cast down the others! you may have to fight caroline for me let us embark oh that's good yeah she'll be no problem. she might have a thing or two to say about that i'll have her working on php in no time. scotty can do usability testing HEH he can print it out and chew on it and stuff he's 5 dtm how old is he? oh he doesn't shew on things anymore yeah that means he's cheap chew either i mean, an economically efficient contributor it's time he learns a trade. starts pulling his weight around this ranch what ranch is that? the gnue ranch? the gnue ranch yes I think jcater owns that ranch we have gnus to be wrangled or he almost bought a ranch