I am sure I will have a ton of questions for you when we get deeper into the app Action: derek tried to get rich to use dcl for OST :) and even GNUe for invoicing but didnt have time to 'force' him into it :) He could use it Force away! If you have the time... I am thinking once he sees us using it he may be swayed in to spending time on it if there is linuxworld up there, i may have to ambush him and get someone to lure him away for a few hours to hijack his systems and infect it with GNUe ;) Derek, do you have a business of your own? yes and no and yes :-) i work full time that pays bills for the government i used to be a consultant and still 'officially' have that consultancy, but i rarely bill time for it (as im too busy and dont actively pursue) Gotcha so i suppose that should be no and yes and yes and i have done some consulting with others in a loosely knit 'unofficial' company kongnamool: no i wasn't joking wheni suggested rebooting :) kongnamool: are you still in contact with rsb at the moment? i.e. we toyed with starting an official company but have been too busy I recenlty met the owner of a company that offers dcl type features as an ASP an ASP on .asp :) dtm: no not in contact with Rich anymore kongnamool: oh what's he up to kongnamool: is he busy Not busy I think and awake... Thinking of going into work well then. he is? well. i'll just ring him up about another attempt at selling this PBX! He napped for 4 hours and is considering staying up late the TOSHIBA kongnamool: dewd btw that Cisco you left in his office is in OST's area in the back on the workbench kongnamool: i can send that back to John or whatever. ok kongnamool: WHAT IS YOUR COMMAND back! Back to the hell from which it came! haha Action: dtm gets the flamethrower and trident I haven't been to OST in a while no you haven't. you should come and get, uh, entrepreneurial with us. i haven't either actually i'm in an office on the other side of the front of the building with johnie we're hiding from JB OK... Why? why what? Why hiding? oh, just coz we're building infrastructure with which to insulate and contain his warpath managerial style :) ;-> ok dude. Joseph was taking a power saw to a Cisco today. :-I unbelievable Why? ohhhhhhh it's a long story sometime when we're not on a publicly logged channel :) How do you have net access in the area? via ethernet You ran cable? you need to come over here at least *just* to see how the cabling is no, somebody did long ago i'm pretty sure it was rsb. although i'd seriously doubt the older stuff is his doing that stuff that's painted into the wall. who the heck is Joseph? An employee of UnixSurplus and Cisco mangler it's the Senior Bodo actually john and rich's dad! oh sorry I don't him all that well I didn't even know he had a brother I just know these nut jobs here pretty well ;) His name is Joseph? erm...I did I say nut jobs?!? I meant well adjusted intelligent individuals yea that's it ;) chillywilly: yep that they are! Action: dtm adjusts with a hammer kongnamool: yes jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" derek: Anyway, I met someone offering a consulting management tool as an ASP. The company is called Keypoint and the website and product is called Manage Track - www.managetrack.com dcl is well suited for this task it seems. These guys are making a living doing this... And I bet if they advertised more would do a lot better. I just wanted to throw this out there... It is outside our company business plan but I thought someone on this channel would be interested. Later, time to exercise kongnamool (~krs@67.113.12.162) left #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M700P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. exercise?!? 12oz curls! is that the thing where I move my fingers rapidly over the keyboard? ;) Vee2d2: :) oh dude I have a 7 layer burito in the fridge mmmm....burito... Stoke_ (~stoker@ppp301.tc-2.roc-pt.ny.localnet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Stoke__ (~stoker@ppp1.tc-1.roc-pt.ny.localnet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Stoke (~stoker@ppp24.tc-1.roc-pt.ny.localnet.com) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-159.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Stoke_ (~stoker@ppp301.tc-2.roc-pt.ny.localnet.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Hello howdy hello hi SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-159.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left #gnuenterprise ("later..."). Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-159.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) chillywilly: i trust you took care of that 7layer, right? never leave a burrito down, man! http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=492&p=6 dtm: of course :) heheh, fauxsoy processor looks cool ;) I need the internet makes you stupid coffee mug there's a lot of pretty funny devices in there.. ew, chicken juice... baby grilling machine... HEH paqan (whaq@202.155.120.168) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) you gotta start back on page one and check 'em all out.. Action: Vee2d2 goes to try and nap for a bit paqan (~paqan@202.155.120.168) joined #gnuenterprise. rofl the videos are funny as hell http://www.somethingawful.com/download.php?file=movies/sa/steal-ep01-02.mpeg especially that one Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. is "a quick break down" == "a quick introduction" ? Arturas: roughly, yes Arturas: or a resummary in general thanks :) no problem SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-132.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Bye :)" btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. bunny (~alex@b125187.adsl.hansenet.de) joined #gnuenterprise. bunny (~alex@b125187.adsl.hansenet.de) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). 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Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Bye :)" i have a quick question if i am sysadmin and i want a cron job i can do either crontab -e or vi /etc/crontab or vi /etc/cron.d/foo is there a golden rule on when to choose which possibility? reinhard: crontab -e edits the users crontab file reinhard: vi /etc/crontab edits the "master" crontab file. The format is a little different, there is a user field. reinhard: If I "crontab -e" as dsmith, I'm actually editing /var/spool/cron/crontabs/dsmith (on a Debian system) dsmith: yes i know sorry if i was unclear i know what the difference in effect is however i wanted to know which is "better" reinhard: Ahh. Sorry to lecture. crontab -e as root or in other words for cron jobs that run as root is it better to have a /var/spool/cron/crontabs/root or put it into /etc/crontab ? reinhard: As root it doesn't really matter too much dsmith: no need to excuse, i think i was putting the question in an unclear way i guess it's a rather philosophical question The /etc/cron.d/* files are for packages. It's far easier to drop in a file than to edit one. reinhard: It's a good question. I'm not really sure. ok so what i do doesn't belong to a package i should stay away from cron.d i guess? reinhard: Personal taste I guess. /etc/crontab is under control of the system maybe? So as an admin use crontab -e ? as far as i understand eveything under /etc is under the control of the sysadmin once it is installed i.e. an upgrade or things like that will never undo changes the sysadmin did in /etc reinhard: You can put your own stuff in the .d/ directories. If it's considerd a config file, Debian will ask you about it. yeah but still i guess cron.d is the "least good" solution Yeah but, if you are adminiing a lot of boxes, it might make sense to drop a file in there on all of them, instead of editing 100 files by hand. reinhard (~reinhard@M700P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) reinhard (~reinhard@M701P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. if you are adminiing a lot of boxes, it might make sense to drop a file in there on all of them, instead of editing 100 files by hand. ok agree so we can agree to the perfect answer "it depends" ;-) thanks anyway yeah There might be other considerations, like /etc might be read-only, and you can only use crontab -e It depands. ;^) I jst edit the /etc/crontab...but I only have a few boxes to take care of and only like one server ;) some day I shall stick my server and works stations config in cvs I think gotta run, tootles chillywilly: Yeah. I've been doing some thinking about large installs of Linux boxen. But not identical configs or identical hardware. chillywilly: later k cya in a few dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: "later.." dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: "later.." dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M701P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "War is never a solution." ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" back sup jbailey, dsmith sup chillywilly hi jc the ceiling as per usual I have gone back to my natural basement hybernation chamber it's unusually warm today oh and I have vanilla coke and beef jerky breakfast of champions :P and I am reading about this visualization environment that helps newbies write multithreaded programs and I am thinking GNU Common C++ needs an interface like that ;) http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/NSF-3/e-Book/index.html would be cool anyway I wish OS class was as cool as the course that uses ThreadMentor er, my OS we used the same dino book though *shrug* I think I am going to read the whole thing as its probably some good learning material for multithreaded hacking chillywilly: It's 6 degrees out. Warmer than its been in 3 months by like 4 degrees. Also, POSA2 covers good ways of handling thrads in OO programs. I still thinking learning the core concepts that's in that paper is better than any "envrionment" environment* dsmith_ (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith_ (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: Client Quit I'm beginning to have a love/hate relationship with cups printing grrr uhoh yea? I've never had a need that stock lpr wasn't good enough for. the integration with kde is overwhelming my lpr was dead so I thought this was a time to try cups but there kups IIRC a kde cups thingy well, it uses cups yea cups is nicer than lpr Action: jamest was evil and tempted jcater into installing it to take a look bwahahaahaha eehehheheheheheheeeee! jbailey: yea we know you like lpr but you were also defending mysql the other day so... ;) chillywilly: Not defending so much as asking people to come up with a real argument. =) jbailey: I'm a lpr -> lprng -> cups (currently in testing) arguments for: groovy web interface ;) I have 2 servers (newton, leibniz) I setup a queue lj4000 on each all my clients with cups installed automatically see the new printers in 30 seconds Does it broadcast them out? since the queue names on the 2 servers are the same cups automatically defines a class (lj4000) that class provides failover capability so that is newton (my current lprng dispatcher) dies the user will never know yes, it broadcasts them according to my settings kde cups support is amazing i just downloaded a HP .ppd file in /usr/share/cups/model/file.ppd restarted the server went to the web interface clicked on a few buttons I wanna be lik jamest to tell it to use that ppd file, all the printer's options now appear on the kde print dialog Hmm. ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-41.glv.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly wants to be licked by jamest, eh? like* [16:30] Last message repeated 2 time(s). Action: chillywilly beats jbailey senseless with a CUPS manual everything, color correction, duplexing, margins, water marking, everything setting up a printer takes about 1 minute tops Action: Vee2d2 feeds chillywilly some fauxsoy and all changes are seen by the other cups machines in 30 seconds Vee2d2: mmmmm it's mind blowing ;P however........ HOWEVER! it's not lprng boooooo wassat mean? it means you have to relearn stuff ooooo does lprng use plc lprm etc? cupsys-bsd - Common UNIX Printing System(tm) - BSD commands er lpc Vee2d2: ditto Action: chillywilly was just about to say that cups can also archive jobs which I believe you can then re-request it can do print quotas (untested) i don't know about queue redirects (haven't looked as lprng eats 1/2 the jobs I attempt to redirect anyway) can it send friendly electric impluses to obstinate useres? ;) "friendly" if you setup the filters properly, chillywilly weeeee i imagine it can if you can get them to stick the connector in something of thiers exec cat 2amps >/dev/chillywilly ooooo, it also seems to detect printers physically attached to the machine erp youch! doens't set them up but when configuring them it displays info they provide it told me I had a LJ2200 connected to lp0 one thing I do notice is it's a bit slower to first page output than lprng Vee2d2: 2ampa?!? are you trying to kill me? amps* just warming you up Action: chillywilly get another vanilla coke gets* Action: chillywilly contemplates speech recognition software ;) dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: "later.." Action: Vee2d2 wonders if it still sounds like the old stuff that came with the sb 2.0's.. dude I want a computer with a personality like kit form night rider from* well like the idea not his personality he complains and bitches too much he's like a wife or something ;) I remember applying the color patch for the ircii client and busting a gut when I attempted to set a color I'd mispelled or hadnt been defined and it's reponse was, "THAT'S NOT A COLOR DUMBASS" hehe what a refreshing way to get an error message it was.. we need more error messages like that in GNUe, but these guys here are too sackless to try it ;P 'sackless'? yea you know the balls sack Ah. ball sack even scrotum, even? testicular shelter jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: "later.." jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-132.wasp.net.au) got netsplit. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-132.wasp.net.au) returned to #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. just when I think those dumbasses working on gnome can't possibly screw up any more, they somehow manage HEH how's that? I should eat or somehting pretty much anything that relies on gnome2 or gtk/gdk 2 is royal crap something* hmmm so it's not only gnome now that sucks well I use kde apps for the most part and/or console ones it's gnome2 and EVERYTHING that uses gnome2 or gtk+2 except gnucash but that's gtk 1.2 IIRC even xchat blows now what a crippled window manager why? fonts trouble again? fonts, massive indeterminant behaivior I don't think that really has much to do with gnome more bugs than even Windows just your broke ass system ;) it's all the gnome and gtk libs the ones on debian work fine as a professional and experienced developer I am extremely offended use the source luke ;) Gnome is kludgy I need to start an actual software company imho gnome was ok, gnome2 was a major step backward I don't think it will ever recover from that mistake but for my grandma ;) supposedly it's supposed to make things easier for the (l)users I don't know how broken ass shit is "easier" geez us real men can use gconf-editor (ick) "not working" is not easier well they took awya so many options to make is "user friendly" I shouldn't have to "make" it work it's stupid if they release it, it should work then I ask ppl how the hell do Iconfigur this and they're like oh use gconf-editor if they say "it may not work", then they are prepared to be ridiculed havoc: you could start a company that writes packages for GNUe ;) Action: chillywilly hides I want someone to start a margarita delivery service though I suppose open container laws might present a problem :) If I do start producing commercial software, it will be for linux and it will be open source but it will still be commercial even xchat sucks now :< geez what does that mean exactly? gtk2 rots "commercial" means I want money for commecial use GNUe is a "commercial" adventure dual license I see GPL for NPO/personal use roughly the same as trolltech and QT what if someone is using it unde the GPL commercially? they pay that's not Free then no, it's not just like QT isn't Free *bullshit* you can use it under the GPL for commercial purposes the GPL allows you to do that QT is dual licensed on whether you need to use it in a GPLd program or a Proprietary program if someone is using my product for profit they can write it off jcater: ah yeah I'm not disagreeing w/your attitude as how can one :) but seeing as how we support QT in here I don't want any misunderstanding my our readers nope, I think I'd stick w/ the NPO vs. profit model s/my/by but my pricing would be reasonable sigh I'm out of Mike's Hard Lemonade :-/ I like Mike's hard lemonade. oh no! gnue is in peril! ;) nothing wrong w/ perl for the right task peril not perl roflmao ah one track mind ;) stupid fsckin gnome fonts :< looked like perl!! sure, blame it on the gnome fonts ;) there is no decent KDE irc client either :( yea and the new galoen is crap too I use irssi-text in konsole what are gnome fonts? all crippled because the use gtk2 I like the new galeon but konq is way cooler konq kinda sucks Action: jcater goes back to kate and programs more how so? can't set it to open in new tab by middle click can't render CSS Focused (~willey@67.113.12.162) joined #gnuenterprise. I get frustrated w/the first too have to right-click to close a tab mine works with middle click but rarely have trouble w/CSS I use C-w chillywilly: it opens in new window not new tab mine does tab hmm yeah but the sucky part is do they have a config for it now? you can only do one or the other yep just tried it i.e., open all new windows in tabs middle click gives me the link in a new tab