I should make an effort to learn spanish jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "sleep" reinhard (~reinhard@M689P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. sub_pop_culture (~link@129.210.184.56) joined #gnuenterprise. sub_pop_culture (~link@129.210.184.56) left #gnuenterprise ("Client exiting"). btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning mornin jsalaud (~root@dsl-228-109.ipns.com) joined #gnuenterprise. anyone home? I'm at home I am new to gnuE.... I am wondering who I might talk with to contribute to the documentation? what are you interested in? gnue covers many areas Right now I am just getting started....and I was using the GnuE forms developer guide... and there are a few places that revisions could be made.. you'll need to speak with Jason Cater (jcater when he's online) as he is the one writing that Ultimately...I hope to do development around the ERP-manufacturing parts...where I am most expert. So documentation has no cvs analogue in the gnuE project? Action: Vee2d2 needs to get more familiar with the various email aliases Jason's e-mail address doesn't appear at the top of the developers guide. jcater@gnue.org that's easy enough.... What part(s) are you working on? I'm working on the gnue-sb sub project atm and waivering on passing out.. =) Sleep is unfortunate necessity.. ;> yes, I definately need a nap. Well....thanks for the information.....I hope to see you around...I'm going to keep tinkering.....sleep well. (poof) jsalaud (~root@dsl-228-109.ipns.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-41.glv.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection johannes (~johannes@M697P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-41.glv.frontiernet.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" morning [08:45] Last message repeated 1 time(s). bbl morning btw :) reinhard (~reinhard@M689P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "There is no war against terrorism. War is always against people." Nick change: sacha_ -> SachaZzz ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. esv (~esv@dsl-200-67-32-146.prodigy.net.mx) joined #gnuenterprise. hi ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" reinhard (~reinhard@M689P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. anyone here? Sleeping or working, probably. working :( I guess, ok Im trying to create es_MX translation for gnue but guess Im too dumb for the README, I would appreciate if anyone emails me detailed instructions (babysteps). to esv@ttte.no-ip.com ah, Mexican Spansih :) yup I'm hiring a kid from Mexico this week, showing him how to install linux tomorrow even :) good for him ;) he was impressed to see the multiple Spanish lang opts in linux :) he hasn't had a lot of exposure to nix in general yet havoc: what will he be doing/ where are you but I was impressed w/ his transcript, so I'm gonna give him a chance esv: I'm in Wisconsin still cold? going to be starting by getting him familiar w/ linux, and then on to sysadmin stuff, then later in the year move him into the development arm of my biz esv: heh, yeah I met this kid last year when he was at UW-Whitewater for a year he's also the lead guitarist in my friend's band so he's not a complete unknown to me so, he must speak english much better than I. I've been trying out a potential employe almost every other month, and keep getting burned :( probably I will get back to Pough, NY (not for sure yet). esv: I wouldn't know, you seem to read/write it well enough you would not undestand me, if you hear me. I don't know, I'm pretty good at picking up languages/slang/accents :) my little brother's friend from Spain lived w/ us for a year getting back at linux, I belive it is in prime time for Mexico and ohter LatinAmer contries... yeah, I've been emailing tons of stuff on OSS in .mx to this kid I believe it is time for linux in all countries but countries other than the US have the best chance, as M$'s influence is strongest here :( not quite true, M$ influence here is huge, I belive they got the goverment in their wagon. unfortunately, yes :( but objectivly speaking, countries with poorer economies also have a *strong* economic incentive to stray from M$ and move towards OSS in some cases M$ is not even a viable choice due to its cost sure, I almost landed a two month project with a company to migrate to linux in the desktop, but they pushed if off :( and while Cetral/South American countries are at least *trying* to enact OSS use laws for their governments, the US doesn't even have a prayer of *introducing* such laws esv: yeah, I've done work on IM programs for .mx auto emissions testing n stuff ESP (US corp) used to use OS2, but is now all M$, a Canadian corp, Parsons, is using linux though, but they lost the .mx bid :( Juarez is where the program I worked on is last month had a tough discusion with my mother about OpenOffice vs MS office. it almost escalated to an agrument. BTW: OO 1.0.2 was released last week autologicco.com is where I worked doing VB for ~2yrs :( they're the ones that do gas/smoke bench and dyno control systems for all the IM programs they brought me in when it looked like they were going to need some nix expertise, but nothing came of it :( although I do have them using linux on a bunch of their own internal servers now as well as using perl good it's a start then the virus spreads itself. ;) yup :) and I may snag their lead developer, a friend of mine their main prob is that the majority partner (owner) is a major M$ fanboy they are realizing that switching to .NET is going to hurt tham [financially] big time so they are considering java as an alternative havoc: I have a friend who tryied that, he installed a mail gw on linux (long time ago) then 2/3 months later his boss found out and forced him to migrate to aix. since they still have to produce stuff for win32 esv: heh, that's expensive havoc; they just bought second largest cement company in the US (year befoore last) ah, so they have the cash to blow money seldom is an issue still an unecessary waste :( specially in goverment were money always is an issue. yeah I'm appalled at the govt. waste I've seen firsthand while working on state IM programs disgusting :( in all countries, not just the US what is gfcvs, I guess I could use google heh a CVS client? gfcvs is the developer's version of gnue-forms (linked to your CVS checkout instead of installed directly) probably China, India and so on, are doing better usage. heh, autologic has 3 china contracts they're working on right now they are just as wasteful two mainland, one hong kong all IM systems esv: you ever hear of Cartek, or BearEngineering? they are all over Central/South America havoc: no, why? esv (~esv@dsl-200-67-32-146.prodigy.net.mx) left irc: "Leaving" esv (~esv@dsl-200-67-32-146.prodigy.net.mx) joined #gnuenterprise. ello hi, had a small problem here. so, I was asking how to create a .mo file for other language. Action: chillywilly doesn't knwo anything about making language translations arturas was the one who worked on that there is a README file but I dont quite understand it, right now Im working on translating the messages, later work on creating the .mo file. you can always mail gnue-dev@gnu.org arturas doesn't seem to be here atm ok ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-41.glv.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. johannes (~johannes@M697P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). Action: esv test Action: esv confused about gnue-sb grassHopper (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: grassHopper says, "no be confused about gnue-sb" ;) lupo (lupo@pD95422AE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. why not? hi hi what's going on not much, esv, state your gnue-sb confusion perhaps grassHopper can clarify for you how to use/test it? its not ready for prime time usage 0.1 should be out shortly but it will be product management and contact management in a base form you can grab the cvs so? I guess you'll welcome feedback, bug track.. and s. and using postgres I got it. psql dbname < createdb.sql or whatever its called setup your connections.conf file to point to dbname with gnue_sb as the connector I have a gnue database already there, with Unicode support. er connection name and start running the forms all forms under 'item' directory should work at this point except item_maint.gfd what timezone are you in i can only give limited help right now when you say "with gnue_sb as the connection name" you mean an [gnue-sb] entry? yes but i think it needs to be gnue_sb btw: im horribly crippled here wrt to looking at what exists (i.e. im not on a machine htat has any gnue-sb stuff) typo. but if you open up one of the forms and look at the database tag what ever the connection name is there is what you need in your connections.conf file I guess I run the forms with gnue-forms and the file name. dont I? do I have to import the schema file? or it is there just to see the DB structure? grassHopper: any navigator files in current gnue-sb?? lupo: not functioning ones yes you have to import the schema file yes you have to run gnue-forms filename.gfd grassHopper (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left #gnuenterprise. hmmmm if he's now the grasshopper... who is da masta now? life is so confusing.... ;) isnt it by chance anybody here that knows mac osx? not me. nevermind guess you're luckier this way ;-) neilt does ;) but he's not here... chillywilly: thanks, would have known that i have here a mac with an osx running Action: esv hardly knows inx within that osx there's a program called "virtual pc" in that virtual pc there runs a win 2000 within the win 2000 i have a dos box you are sick when i print in that dos box using LPT1: no work i guess that's just too many levels of emulation ;-) isn't OS X essentially FreeBSD under the hood? why dont you run samba un osx and share the printer to the win/dos box :) well if its an emulaor then there there's no dos/win box it's on his HD yes no separate box I know, just mentioned as a box since it is a "different" env. but.. , still its sick. yes i agree just for the record: it was not my idea to do this :-9 :-) who's fault is it? johannes? I would just blame him ;) I'm ok with that. ;) blame derek works for jamest an dI got to run folks.... Action: chillywilly blames the grasshopper cya esv no it wasn't johannes someone not from bytewise i'm just the poor guy who should support that silly program running in the dos box Action: chillywilly sends his condolences but you have no dos/winblows so you;re trying to run it via an emulator? and where does the OS X box come into the picture? well it's a customer he calls me "we have problems with printing lately" and "ah by the way we changed all our hardware to mac's" HEH and "there was some guy here who installed a virtual pc and everything works except printing" "can't you have a look" Action: chillywilly thinks the appropriate response is, "I thought *I* was uour computer guy" ;), j/k "why'd you let someone come muck up your systems?" :P chillywilly: unfortunately i'm generally _not_ the computer guy i don't support any network or other system other than a very special software so i'm not the person they buy hardware from k neither the person to support their network it lets me sleep much better most of the time ;) hehe :) Today: In case you didn't realize it by now, today's date is: 03/03/03. And, there are exactly 303 days left in '03. cool btw, what was the arguments against setting up a wiki? cause DotGNU has one now... we should have one too ;) I'm not sure there were arguments against not doing it l8r all just arguments about it becoming a primary documentation medium reinhard: later i'm fed up for today with computers ;-) btw just today? :) they just decided to buy a intel machine to run windows on that machine natively reinhard (~reinhard@M689P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "There is no war against terrorism. War is always against people." chillywilly: though psu did mention that's one more channel the KC ppl would have to monitor which I'm not 100% sure that's true oh...yea but it should be pretty static Action: jcater would foresee wiki's being almost real-time howto's not really discussions right living documents so to speak I've never messed with a wiki.. it's like an annotated manual more or less, yea? it's collaborative authoring kinda where ppl can edit the content http://wiki.dotgnu.org such as php.net's online manual where people post relevant information most decent ones have some form of permissions no, you can edit content ok, so not exactly the same thing then.. creat as many pages as you want link the m together etc. interesting.. not exactly they're neat IMHO and I guess it's reversible somehow by an admin or something? say someone wants to write up a howto on how to do something (lie write a db driver for gnue common) they can put it on their wiki page others can look it over and even fix it up some ppl can read the wiki and even search it, etc. most of them have permissions a lot of the wikis are more lax we have one for our LUG btw, is there a more indirect channel I should have directed the guy who wanted to help with dox this morning, than jcater's email address? such as gnue-docs@ or something? gnue-dev is probably the best choice currently or just gnue@gnu.org we only have 3 mailing list (not including cvs commit list) now a days one is just an announce list V_laptop: usually, info@gnue.org if they are wanting specifically to talk to us or gnue-dev for general dev stuff Action: jcater needs to respond to him... been busy all day jcater: you mean arent specifically? or was that not a typo? Action: V_laptop picks pieces of cracker out of his laptop kb and eyes his toddler um yeah I don't mind.. it wasn't a problem but we usually prefer info@gnue.org instead of, say, jamest@, derek@, jcater@, reinhard@ (that's so at least one of the 4 will respond :) okidokie Action: jcater is notorious for procrastinating on responding to emails then forgetting I was procrastinating I am bad about putting them in draft & forgetting lol i do both hi jamest Action: esv is back hi dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: "later.." Action: esv has a question regarding gnue-designer btw, gnue-forms has a nice splash screen. esv: have you succeeded with .mo file? ra: yeah right ok ra3vat: accually I did not express myself right. No I havent. after you translated messages and filled the header you'd just do # msgfmt -o gnue.mo gnue.po youre kidding... esv: what is not clear in the README? check, something like #, fuzzy should not be in the header it does not say so...(I guess) In this folder translation files (.mo) should be. See /doc/i18n for the details. Full .po file, gnue.po, is here - it has no initial translations, but into this file all translations are entered and later .mo file is generated. Sample .po file (gnue-example.po) is included besides. Another sample .po file (gnue-version.po) is also included, you can see how it works by setting your LC_ALL variable to different language codes LC_ALL=en_US and running gfcvs for example. You will see line 'Version' and how it changes when LC_ALL has different language codes. Note: You might have error like this: Unable to load locale information falling back to default English language translations. This means, that in gnue/common/translations folder does not exist your language subfolder. You can create it in such steps. 0. cd gnue/common/translations 1. mkdir $LC_ALL 2. cd $LC_ALL 3. mkdir LC_MESSAGES 3. Copy there gnue.mo file from any other folder (cp ../en_US/LC_MESSAGES/gnue.mo LC_MESSAGES/gnue.mo) And if you can - commit this folder to CVS tree or email it. Thank you :) i would say 3. mkdir LC_MESSAGES 4. Copy there gnue.po 5.Add translation 6.raise msgfmt -o gnue.mo gnue.po jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. 7.commit or send by email so do I signup for cvs write access? 7.send by email :) send a patch accually, I am far from finishing the translation. there are too many msgs, might finish in a while. ra3vat: ok btw, the GNUe Forms: A Developer's Introduction is incomplete and has few mistakes. ;) guess you all knew it already (being incomplete) please list mistakes esv: the dev guide was put on hold while forms in cvs underwent some major changes on "Creating Datasources" with gnue-designer, says to insert a New Datasource with the Tools-Insert-Datasource and should say... Edit-Insert-Datasource (0.4.3) Tools | Insert | Datasource is correct ooops,then my menus are wrong. what version are you using? 0.4.3 ah, that version isn't being developed we won't be making corrections to the docs of 0.4.x just because of time :( I have to run... jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" is it corrected 0.5.x esv: there were two pre-releases of 0.5.x Vee2d2: generally if it goes to info@gnue.org i respond to it pretty quickly even if it means forwarding it somewhere more appropriate if it were a 'specific' issue i think esv: there was a lot of changes in gfd format from 0.4.3 to pre 0.5.x docs-support@gnuenterprise.org should work like separated logic and layout it will create a ticket and address it to proper person evil ;) now, playing with gnue-sb, (with the contacts forms) I realized that you have to insert the address, email and phone types (using the appropiate lu_...._gfd) , before you can use the new type, is this the way apps are going to work? or this is a perfect case for multi-page apps. jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@66.61.83.220) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jcarter. esv (~esv@dsl-200-67-32-146.prodigy.net.mx) left irc: "Leaving" fixe (~fixe@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: "Client exiting" fixe (~fixe@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hehe, jcarter Action: jcater thwaps chillywilly hey esv called you that I was just laughing at it I am innocent do you wish to have the blood of the innocent on your hands? I will smite thee Action: chillywilly smites jcarter with a large frozen trout dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi dsmith hey chillywilly chillywilly: What's up dude? eh, nothing...well trying to work on something bu SG1 keep sdistracting me... yep I'm there atchuing scifi? watching* gawd I hate this big keyboard not that it matters anyway, but that's my excuse ;) Yes, scifi mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hmm esv ran off looks like he got gnue_sb working V* looks like this gnue_sb is taking off faster than i planned (good thing(tm)) might have to actually look at making a release i think jamest and jcater are sweating a bit thinking crap we need to get 0.5.0 out before that idiot releases gnue_sb and we get a slew of questions about 0.4.3 ;) Action: jcater doesn't really care how many questions we get w/0.4.3 that's derek's baby now bwahahaha jcater: sadly, i think technically you are correct Action: derek kicks self for offerring to maintain prior releases chillywilly, oh chillywilly, weren't you looking for something to do..... Action: derek goes to beat children aaron___ (coyote@msp-24-163-193-174.mn.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. shapr (~user@h224n1fls32o1017.telia.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek: nope derek: I have stuff to do Yarrr, maties! Action: derek wonders if jcater has gotten into the captain morgans again well, shiver me timbers sigh I've lost my motivation to gnue tonight I've got no motivation..... hmmm motivation to gnue_sb? j/k though it would be cool if you could look at latest 'sku' stuff and tell me if it looks feasible to bookstore SKU's ;) I can't get no motivation, I can't get no motivation. 'Cause I try and I try and I try and I try. I can't get no, I can't get no. When I'm codin' in my editor and that man comes into the channel and he's tellin' me more and more about some useless information supposed to fire my imagination. I can't get no, oh no no no. Hey hey hey, that's what I say. I can't get no motivation, I can't get no motivation. 'Cause I try and I try and I try and I try. I can't get no, I can't get no. When I'm chat'n in my IRC and that man comes on to tell me how fast my coding can be. Well he can't be a h4x0r 'cause he doesn't code the same language as me. I can't get no, oh no no no. Hey hey hey, that's what I say. I can't get no motivation, I can't get no editor with action. 'Cause I try and I try and I try and I try. I can't get no, I can't get no. When I'm code' round the world and I'm doin' this and I'm writing that and I'm tryin' to make some code that tells me I better come back later next week 'cause you see I'm on losing streak. I can't get no, oh no no no. Hey hey hey, that's what I say. I can't get no, I can't get no, I can't get no motivation, no satisfaction, no satisfaction, no satisfaction. bada bing ok, I feel better now back to coding Action: derek looks around there has to be a smoking crack pipe somewhere jcater: what is status of tutorial jamest was doing on using gnue common outside gnue? Action: derek thought he was looking at something like that it's in common last I looked mdean: was looking for it feeling dcl needs some snake blood in it to make it suitably advanced ;) Action: mdean heads to cvs update morning Magni wrong window uh - subversions go bye bye? there we go :) gnue/common/doc/ should have lots of goodies yeah - I can't read the star office doc Mandrake's install is b0rked keeps running setup at least for me I read the tech ref it looked like it was going to go into it, but isn't quite there ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-41.glv.frontiernet.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" want me to save that star office in someting ledgeable for you Ok.. I think I can almost see out of my right eye again after forgetting I didnt wash my hands after handling the thai peppers.. derek: sure - that'd be great I might have to dump their rpms and use oo.org installer updating cvs mdean: we have to get you on debian progeny installer working? ;-) I haven't tried it Action: jcater thinks a chicken could install debian [21:21] Last message repeated 4 time(s). done slackware 3.x was easier to install (to me) hell, chillywilly and derek can get it installed that says a lot Action: jcater ducks from flying trout but I won't sing praises of the package management (.tar.gz) mdean: i have to side with jcater even though he is picking on me i cna break anything and actually have relatively little problems with debian that says a LOT usually only thing that gives me any trouble in a new install is X NEVER test X in setup I learned that one Action: jcater thinks everyone should burn a knoppix cd just to get a workin XFConfig file (aside from the sysadmin utility of such a disk) jcater: tahts what i did at last installfest installed debian rebooted in knoppix got sound and video working saved files rebooted in debian :) odd cvs [update aborted]: connect to subversions.gnu.org(199.232.41.2):2401 failed: Connection timed ou I had that originally - pinging it had TTL expire then it was working hmm now it works Action: derek looks for network gremlins yep - it's having issues Nick change: SachaZzz -> SachaS it's subversions derek: I made a work order email gateway also mdean: emailed you html version to what addy? my gnuenterprise one is broke I think probably the old kcnet.com address pooh thats where i sent will mdean@users.sourceforge.net work? should I get user complaints there :) wow jcater: printing that to file then running ps2pdf has NICE results i think i really like openoffice :) mdean: is that where I should sent complaints? derek: I hate ps2pdf but at least 85% of the time it gets a decent job done jcater: until I add you to the junk sender's list :P jcater: i tend to agree I have one big complaint that was my 'wow' it actually seemed to do a good job must be a big complaint if you're still typing ah you want it here? ok hehe your anti-derek filters are NOT working... I'm still getting complaints from him via our DCL gateway Action: jcater hopes this is fixed by 1.0 maybe the python version of the gateway will fix that (which is why I want to use GNUe common) derek: got it - thanks mdean: hush tell jcater its in python he's liable to do 'twisted' python tricks to torture me like have all tickets from me come back to me in triplicate oh no - it requires OOP! he wants to know where the nightly cron job to reassign his work order/tickets to others is on the roadmap for 1.0.0 hehe see? the DCL python package will make these things easier to build i know the doc *does* look nice sigh i have to dial into work and because im too lame to solve routing problems it means i have to severe the old connection for a bit bbiab jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. wb derek oh V* is sending some yummy data you realize if we nail even 1/3rd of what is in your email in next few weeks (entirely doable) we will be farther than probably any other GPL system trying to do the same thing ;) I'll be a very happy camper.. I noticed something in apt-cache yesterday I'd never noticed before.. facturalux - ERP/CRM software for Linux It's in spanish.. and appears to be based on QT the Papos guys sure have been quiet lately.. werent they working on syncing up with 0.5.0? i saw that a long time ago i think there are about 15 different french / spanish (mostly spanish) ERP/POS type solutions for linux gack information overload my email? =) Vee2d2: you look at compiere at all as a solution Action: derek hopes you continue down gnue-sb path but if you looked at compiere or open for business im curious what appealed in gnue over the 'compeition' derek: the backend was a pretty quick deal buster on compiere.. I have no intention of getting/using oracle.. so I didnt dive very deep into it.. but you still haven't answered the question what kind of crack you on to choose gnue-sb? Action: jcater assumes that was the question 'cause I want some Action: jcater runs out for a minute crack run? gnue interested me on several levels.. not just for my own purposes.. but as I'd said before, I've been trying write something for myself to run my business for some time.. I wanted to do it myself not just because I need it.. but to also bring what I built to others in similar situations.. as a possible future means of making $$$.. =) going into places and getting them hooked up with software to run their operations so I **really** dug what I read as I read over the docs on the website.. it was completely in tune with my itches.. i pretty agree with the compiere deal breaker (usually thats how i combat an argument) that and they are using the MPL (iirc) which pretty much screws people wishing to 'contribute' code (imho) actually i guess thats the NPL that screws contributors not MPL too many licenses....ppl just need to use the GPL and be done with it ;) derek: this was another turn off.. If your revenue is between $2M and $200M and you want to migrate to a "brick and click" business with functionality of the first tier ERP systems, Compiere is for you. Vee2d2: im confused I a wee shy of their target market the license was another turn off or the statement ah im suprised best i can tell their market looks more like the 500k - 10m market to me as someone banking 200m and willing to use oracle and java likely would be better off going with a tier one like SAP where is the open for business project? re: but if you looked at compiere or open for business familiar with ofb.biz, thought it was just a news site.. ? nm.. sf.net but they don't have us and our sparkling personalities right no onw can compare with that... one* they dont even have a goat! it gives us that great competitive advantage yes it does I feel sorry for all other F/OSS ERP projects ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) after all, isn't a goat a sign of stubborness to fail plus a hard worker plus smells pretty bad HEH yea,m we never bother to shower or move away fromt he keyboard ;) or learn to type, apparently plus isnt picky about what it consumes. haha :( forget I typed anything Action: jcater slaps chillywilly on the back just erase me form all gnue logs it'll only make things better "cheer up, little bud" stop handling the trout so much, man! but, but, but then we'd loose our NC-17 rating we can't do that, chilly bah, you still have jamest and the goat rape fetish goat goat goat goat goat we need to get ourselves higher up on google searches goat cheese her goat goat goat goat milk his goat goat goat their goat goat goat jcater: when i think of goat, i think of animal that eats anything, even tin cans i think that sums a few of us up nicely :) hey now! yea, and I have the fat gut to prove it the aluminum can incident was an exception no need to keep pointing it out that's the image I get as well.. they're always eating something.. goat butter! yea man we need some of that eek! Goat Baby Batter! http://www.ofbiz.org/ Vee2d2: lol of course the thing that makes me shudder about ofbiz Action: jcater never ssaw http://jasperreports.sourceforge.net/ before is appears to java heads that have strong marketing background out to make a business more than free software Action: Vee2d2 ponders restarting X hmmm Action: jcater has his sight set on the competition now, and revives motivatoin to gnue-report some more hmmm? damn posting a url is all it took Action: derek needs to rethink his jcater motivational strategies document bah they generate pretty reports but looking at their format and dtd they are pretty limited Action: jcater flexes his reports knuckles and gets back to work but it's 11pm but I can't go to bed before 1:00 am won't the wife be miffed? crikey Action: chillywilly waits for jcater to get locked out Action: jcater will get in trouble if i go to bed before 1:00am giving jcater a good 2 hours of pented, 'my reports are better than yours', anger that's when wife gets home ooooooh we well coudl have GNUe reports 1.0 delivered by morning derek: my reports ARE better where is she? just not as far along hello, does the GPL have anything to say about things one creates using gnue? i haven't realy used it so hard to ask the right quetions.. but, say i create some forms or some reports, and i distribute them... am i bound by the GPL? chillywilly: gnue/reports/src she's a beauty aaron___: no jcater: lol /msg chillywilly i will put 3 bucks in your paypal account to jason his reports are good but those jasper reports really are quite nice and more functinoal. gack! aaron___: chillywilly speaks too quick dont listen to him don't mention their name ! you'll bump them up in google derek: ? if you use GNUe you are bound by the GNU GPL your forms , reports, etc. are your own however, your interpretation of the GNU GPL will give you varying answers chillywilly: well if you view the world as running a .gfd through forms client as not 'linking' you are correct you have no issues gack! what is it w/projects using hardcoded SQL statements? Action: derek tends to think this way, but others may not derek: what parts, if say i used them, would obviously bind me to the GPL.. seems like a FAQ thing, i did look at it hope i didn't miss it he's saying does the output you create with the tools fall under thr GPL and there is no GPL software that I know of that wil cover created content erm but is he creating output from the tools? or input to the tools? aaron___: i think chilly's assessment is failrly correct but misguided chillywilly: like jcater said heh i'm not sure what i'm creating since i haven't created anything, i just like to know what i'm getting into desginer creates output designer even ok so i use designer and make a proprietary form and save it and give it to you under the deke license cna you use forms to run it? I should be able to i suspect yes if I compile my program with gcc that does mean it has to be GPL'd aaron___: im just making note that 'linking' is a vague term derek: yep, i understand..hrm Action: derek tends to not consider that linking (which agrees with what chilly says) and my C/C++ program is "input" chillywilly: but gcc is no longer needed BUT i think you could argue the other way as well ok I execute a python program would that be considered linking in 'spirit' then? if python was GPL would all my programs have to be GPL? chillywilly: btw, php scripts and such would have this question as well chillywilly: no because python isnt gpl only gpl compatiable :) I as *if* said* aaron___: at this point i am torn on my opinion currently i tend to think its not 'linking', but i get more and more jaded daily Action: Vee2d2 glares at the duct tape and ponders fixing derek up derek: ok... i understand.. i have friends on both sides of the isle and then my own concerns hehe i think eben moglen would say its not I think putting restrictions on content created by software or content manipulated by the software is over-reaching certains "bounds" Vee2d2: I don't think that would work richard would say it is Vee2d2: derek MUST speak Vee2d2: I could imagine him farting his response if you taped his mouth it's just his nature Action: jcater ducks the other thing is you lock yourself out of a lot of resuse, but not being gpl even in the forms/reports haha although GPLing forms is the cool way to do it ;) assuming that they are useful can i ask how gnue is getting developed? is there a source of funding or is this done by individuals? well it si kinda moronic..erm I mean "misguided" aaron___: volunteers generally i find ERP stuff to be that if its useful its better GPL i have always been curious how this type of thing gets done if its 'specific' its custom software and its not distributed and it dont matter I agree what do the people that work on it get in return? especially since this is enterprise stuff... designed to make 'other people money' aaron___: volunteer work mainly is how gnue is developed....although you can vote for us at linuxfund.org :) i.e. nothing would prevent you from taking GNUe modules intsalling at a client and making mods for them maybe we can get some of that money as long as you dont distribute those mods to others there is no license questions :) derek: yep i understand this... appealing really aaron___: best i can tell what we get from it, lots of free goat sex seriously most of us need solutions in our day jobs aaron___: a lot of developers want to use it to empower their own business adventures so its a scratch an itch thing aaron___: from an economical viewpoint (which isn't only reason to look at free software) plus most of us know that its not 'glamorous' like games, toolkits or desktops it's almost a shared expense pool) derek: but of course the client can distribute anything also... which pretty much makes impossible to use for the company i work for now but we all cooperate in the spirit of Free software and if someone doesnt do it, it wont get done do you have to have a company born and bred on the gpl to make use of such things? what company? you knwo the GNUe company ;) is very hard to see people investing in something where the fruits are in the hand of the client derek: the one i am employed by... i'm just curious about the project aaron___: well most people get hung up on the socialist values of things Goats-R-Us Inc. as socialism seems oppossed to capitalism but i think its just a wrong way of looking at things maybe its a bad example but would it be bad or good for commerce derek: i does seem hard to ask somebody that has spent years employing you to do things for them to give that away for a fraction of the cost if private industry was left to build freeways and roads? i.e. freesoftware is hard to argue against in 'infrastructure' aaron___: well, that assumes you don't receive back i'm not arguing against i'm just thinking that starting with major private capital you have have to have a certain thinking from the start at one time 'the net' was only thing considered infrastructure in IT now its filtered to desktop and productivity applications(open office and such) but in a real community setting like this, everyone contributes, but everyone benefits much more than they would have had they gone alone and GNUe and a hand full of others are proving that business productivity is also there aaron___: tell your bosses to read up on gaming theory sometimes the best way to play the game is to collaborate i think "a beautiful mind" sample is good 4 guys, 5 girls one girl extremely hot all 4 guys go after that one girl and only 1 gets her the other 3 are rejected and get nothing but likely none of the 4 get her and they are all rejected better they all agree to leave the beauty alone and all go home with a girl the capitalist mentality says this is wrong, im a stud i could get her, im good Action: jcater tries to decide if derek is calling us ugly or not lol but if you play the percentages I think derek is smoking some good crack it is FAR more favorable to agree to combine strategy derek: hehe, i do not run the company i work for, i just try to find technical solutions to meet their goals :) i think in a sick way this is what free software is doing to IT people are in tough economic times they are starting to say 'a date' looks a lot better than going after the pretty girl and likely striking out :) you mean they are being more modest? ;) and less selfish i mean i think they are seeing that they have better things to focus on less stab-the-other-guy-in-the-backish derek: there are still small companies swinging away looking for the home run... free software does not appeal to that mindset unless it can be exploited... i see this :) no so much that they still stab each other :) that's a sick way to look at it aaron___: i think in most cases its because they are ill informed they dont understand the economics of it you scracth my back I scratch yours chillywilly summed it up right there as truly free software benefits the smaller guy much more than the large guy in most cases aaron___: btw i asked what company you worked for cause we have a vendor in Minnesota (MSP area) that drives me mad www.cannontech.com like want to choke them daily :) no one really wants to be "king" they just want to be able to do their own thing...Free software empowers the individual (or small business) hehe, we are in the energy business in general... demand response, automated meter reading, and a lot of other stuff aaron___: if you seriously want to have your bosses consider free software i can introduce you to Dr. Stanley Klein he works on GNUe stuff he is actually an prominent engineer in the energy field in DC derek: my bosses are not of a state of mind to consider this type of thing... they would have to be softened teaches at george washington university thats what im saying stan is a leader in their field i.e. he is chair of several energy committees he has a pragmatic not philosophical approach to free software stan stan he's our man... and is well published he's chaired some IEEE standards committees hasn't he? if not chaired, pretty influential haha i went to http://stanleyklein.com/' you cna always go after the economical/practical values...that should soften any "hardened" business ppl lol not "dental" energy :) chillywilly: no kidding that's what originally got me here I was fscked in the rear by Oracle one time too many and here I am :) can I shake oracle's hand for that? ;) than you oracle! thank* http://www.cpcug.org/user/sklein/ derek: honestly i don't think there is hope for the peeps that pay me... i'm interested in gnu stuff on my terms.. maybe someday to make something of it i dunno aaron___: i think sometimes you would be suprised the key is being practical, persistent and calculated well it does take come evangelising and effort ;) not fanatical :) Revised August 11, 1996. lol aaron___: he has another site he maintains but im not recalling the url most ppl don't like change... but why keep getting kicked in the head by proprietary vendors ;)? jcater guess you got short end of stick getting kicked in the 'nads' instead of the 'head' lol erm, now that I think about it essentially seems to be happening is that like roads, etc. software is becoming a public good I like the infrastructure analogy when you take that perspective, it makes a lot of sense derek: you do significant work on gnue yes? how do you pay your mortgage? :) but anyway that's probably not a way to pitch things to the "suits" ;) i work for the government, muhahahaha which one? maricopa county http://www.maricopa.gov nice... 3 minutes on their site will prove they are microsoft shop through and through though inroads have been made :) so if i could land a cushy gov't job i'd have enough time to work on gnue? hehe i worked for http://www.axispt.com for a while getting paid to work on gnue full time until the economy took a dump and they axed their growth plans and need for a datacenter man that maricopa site sucks only thing worse was if it was done all in flash wtf is a "wellness center"? it's the part of the well that actually contains water, dude I don't think so try again :P jcater: dont get me started or i will send you mockups of this stuff that some jokesters made for this little company called NCS' website derek: when i started where i work (97) they had a softare product that was based on os/2.. they got burned... i ported most stuff to nt that i could and did a lot of new development in java.. was an easy sell at the time and works quite in the last couple years :) but Free software never dies man lol that's right! just the cvs keys get misplaced occasionally Action: derek was thinking of a slogan something like Free Software never dies, it just gets consumed by emacs. GNUe will live on through its GPL'd immortal soul ;) --- Tue Mar 4 2003