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<siesel> morning
<Vee2d2> mornin
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<siesel> Hallo Reinhard
<reinhard> good morning
<reinhard> hallo
<siesel> do you have any ideas to change the API to make it XMLRPC conform?
<reinhard> sadly i don't know what xmlrpc defines and what not
<reinhard> what data types xmlrpc knows
<reinhard> if all else fails we could
<reinhard> concatenate all strings of the table together and define column dividors, row dividors and an escape character
<reinhard> and pass it as a single string like
<siesel> I hope that we don't have to go that far 
<reinhard> reinhard;lustenau;austria|siesel;bonn;germany
Action: siesel is looking at the specs at xmlrpc.org
<siesel> seems that there is a struct type. that would mean, that we could still use our api. 
<reinhard> well a quick question
<reinhard> we defined the result of fetch being a 2-dimensional array
<reinhard> but you impelemented it as an array of dictionaries
<reinhard> i guess we must at least switch to the 2-dimensional array for xmlrpc conformance
<reinhard> i'm not sure if a struct helps us
<reinhard> for those writng the kc
<reinhard> this is about how to access the new appserver api over xmlrpc
<reinhard> we have some functions in that api that return a 2-dimensional array of strings
<reinhard> which seems to be a problem for xmlrpc
<reinhard> --
Nick change: SachaS -> SachaS_away
<siesel> reinhard: in my understanding, the problem with XMLRPC is that the API transfers everything as array, and don't create struct types
<siesel> so we have to use arrays or we need to change the RPC abstraction layer to be able to pass dictionaries as structs
Action: siesel is finally realizing that difference between API documentation: (2dim array) and implementation (2dim dictionary)
Action: siesel will check what will be easier to implement :)
<reinhard> i'd say we should rather look what is easier to transport (over rpc)
<reinhard> because implementation will be no big difference
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<reinhard_> bbl
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<Arturas> hello
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<lupo> hi Arturas
<Arturas> hi lupo :)
<lupo> does cvs work for you?
<Arturas> one moment
<Arturas> it seems that no
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<lupo> great
<lupo> because the last few days CVS was a real bitch
<lupo> and i can't check today's situation, because i'm on a really bad line
<lupo> 30% package loss
<Arturas> ouch
<lupo> it's sufficient for irc and mail, so it doesn't bothers me too much
<lupo> i just have to develop some stuff for the company i work for and we use an own cvs for devel work
<lupo> i'm making "debian/" so that we have debs for the rollout
<lupo> btw, who's the maintainer of gnue debs?
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<Arturas> don't know this
<lupo> "unknown host subversions.gnu.org" 
<lupo> damnit
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<lupo> hi jamest
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<jamest> hello
<ra3vat> jamest: hello
<Vee2d2> 'lo hey
<ra3vat> what is the status of curses driver?
<ra3vat> anyone test it?
Action: jcater was working on it last night actually
<jcater> it's broken
<jcater> it did not survive the UIDriver reorganization
<jcater> but I hope to slap it into shape tonight
<ra3vat> i'd like to test it and help where possible
<ra3vat> help=blame someone hardly until it gets shape
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<Tesla> hi, can you tell me what 2-tier and n-tier means ?
<lupo> Tesla: yes
<lupo> quite simple
<lupo> in two-tier mode, you have layout and software logic on the client side and the database on the server side
<lupo> in three-tier, you have layout on the client, software logic stored in an application server and the database on a server
<Tesla> due to the mini-faq 2-tier mode is already useabel but 3-tier not, is that still correct ?
<lupo> through an intelligent driver model, gnue is able to operate in both modes
<lupo> which enables MS Access-like operation as well as true multi-tier architecturing
<lupo> right now, yes
<lupo> but this is being worked on
<lupo> from what i see it's a question of connecting gnue forms with the appserver
<lupo> there are some issues
<lupo> appserver itself is supposed to run quite fine
<lupo> i hope this will be resolved before the 0.5.0 release of gnue
<lupo> then you can enjoy 3-tier mode with an official release :)
<jcater> I wouldn't expect that for 0.5.0
<Tesla> do you think its already possible to use it as something like an customer db, with addressbook schedule and document managment ?
<lupo> Tesla: this is quite realistic
<lupo> of course, right now you have to write the application for yourself, based on the gnue tools
<lupo> the packages for these tasks are not yet ready
<Tesla> this means creating the forms and the logic 
<lupo> yep
<lupo> whereas i think that such an application shouldn't require too much logic
<Tesla> can you add custom widgest in the forms designer (e.g. for a schedule) ?
<ra3vat> tools provide a lot of internal logic for select, search create update db entries 
<lupo> what do you mean by "custom widget"?
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<Tesla> in the GNUe Designer there are only labels, textfields, drop-downs and buttons. I now want to have an date selector or something else more complex
<lupo> okay
<lupo> yes, in theory. actually, you would rather use a report for that in gnue
<lupo> which means, you have forms for data input and querying, and reports for output, be it a nice screen output or print or mail etc
<lupo> concerning dates, there are (will be? jcater!) facilities for input masks
<Tesla> so to get really new input masks you need to write them in c or whatever
<lupo> gnue is not intended as an all-purpose application framework
<lupo> it is quite specific in solving business related tasks
<Tesla> sure, that also what i need it for
<lupo> the idea is not to have an intuitive package, but one which increases productivity
<Tesla> ok ;)
<ra3vat> Tesla: need of date selector was discussed but not yet implemented
<lupo> writing new widgets needs python, not c
<lupo> so it's a bit more user-friendly imho
<jcater> we are working on input masks, yes
<jcater> and there is no C code
<jcater> zip
<jcater> nada
<jcater> :)
<lupo> (i have to read your messages from the logfile because my net connection is too slow, so don't wonder about strange replies)
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<revDeke> Tesla: some clarifications to what Lupo said
<revDeke> custom widgets are possible, they would be in python not C
<revDeke> the team is trying to make it more plausible to 'easily' plug in new custom widgets
<revDeke> however, there are plans for entry boxes that do more than 'raw entry'
<lupo> new widgets in Python
<lupo> new input masks are a functionality of forms
<revDeke> like 'search' boxes
<revDeke> date pickers
<jcater> one clarification to revDeke's clarifications: custom widgets are *not encouraged
<lupo> which means they are written as part of gnue forms definition files
<jcater> but will be supported at some point
<revDeke> input masks would deal with date formatting, but not date picking
<revDeke> jcater: absolutely you just didnt let me finish
<revDeke> the idea is that custom widgets would be 'easier' to add
<revDeke> but we do not encourage them, because it puts you in a bad position of having a 'custom' (read non supported) framework
<lupo> jcater should know the most about that
<revDeke> what we generally ask is if there is somethign you do not see ask
<Tesla> so right now there are no custom widgets, but you can add new widgets by writing them in python
<revDeke> i think in most cases there is sufficient comprimise made to get 'functionality' into the framework
<revDeke> that avoids the need for 'custom' components
<revDeke> Tesla: yes, but as jcater stated we strongly discourage it
<jcater> GNUe is not a GUI framework... it's a data manipulation and reporting framework
<revDeke> we instead courage asking the developers 'how can i do 'X'
<revDeke> and see if they can provide an answer by extending existing widgets 
<revDeke> sometimes the answer will be 'we have no intention to support X'
<revDeke> in which case likely gnue isnt a good choice for the application at hand
<revDeke> but to re-iterate what jcater and lupo have both touched on
<revDeke> gnue is not glade
<revDeke> it is specific to database productivity applications
Action: revDeke wouldnt write a cdplayer, webbrowser or image editor with gnue framework :)
<revDeke> the fact we choose to support a myriad of platforms from curses to gtk to qt to html to you name it
<revDeke> we limit ourselves to a much more concise 'widget' catalog
<Tesla> well i dont want to do that ;) its just we have an existing app here (combit) and I think they wouldnt accpet it, if it had less useability...
<revDeke> we dont specialize in 'pretty' whiz bang widgets
<Tesla> true i right now havent thought of curses and hmtl
<revDeke> i think customer db is a 'no brainer' gnue type application
<revDeke> i.e. its kind of thing gnue was made for
<revDeke> i think you mentioned 'calendar' program?
<revDeke> that is where i get a little uneasy
<Tesla> yeah a need something like there is an apointment with this customer at this date
<revDeke> i think its reasonable for us to support 'calendar' date picker entry fields
Action: revDeke notes we dont currently, but i think it would be feasible request
<revDeke> but writing a 'calendar' application that is like calendar in outlook, gets a little shakey
<revDeke> we could support the 'functionality', but i dont think there are plans to support calendar widgets 
Action: revDeke could be wrong
<revDeke> its never been discussed and at this point i dont think is high on the list with pending 0.5.0 list
<Tesla> well, that would be just a part i need ;)
Action: revDeke doesnt want to scare you away from GNUe, but i want to be honest
<revDeke> like all tools we have strengths and weaknesses
<esv> revDake: wouldn't Telsa's request be part of a CRM module app?
<revDeke> yes
<revDeke> i would suggest she/he look at gnue-sb
<revDeke> it has contact manager that functions with 0.4.3 (currently)
<Tesla> yes i think so, i found a list on www.linas.org that said ERP can do everything ;)
<revDeke> that probably fits to a small degree the first part of the question in being a customer database
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<revDeke> if not their style, certainly it provides a reference to how one can do a customer database
<revDeke> Tesla: what format is the data from Combit in?
<esv> btw, I have a question regarding the translation
<Tesla> i think its some dbase database .db files
<revDeke> if its .dbf format
<Tesla> why you want to know ?
<revDeke> you could likely fashion a driver (or if you have odbc driver (windows)
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<revDeke> you could basically just build gnue forms front ends to the existing structures
<revDeke> and make things quite quickly
<revDeke> looks like it uses foxpro
Action: revDeke assumes gnue is a suitable replacement to foxpro, access, filemaker applications
<Tesla> well yeah, but the goal is to find an exchange for combit and so its no problem to convert all the data to whatever
<revDeke> i.e. the framework shoudl support about anything they do
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<lupo> args
<lupo> damn connection
<Tesla> ok were going to have coffee and cake now, thank you very much for your help I will have a look at gnue-sb asap 
<Tesla> cu 
<lupo> guten appetit
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<lupo> hm
<lupo> delicious
<lupo> goose liver
<Vee2d2> isnt that fois gras?
<Vee2d2> It's on my list of things to try sometime.. 
Action: Vee2d2 remains content with his coffee in the mean time.
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<lupo_> hi reinhard
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<KeaponLaffin> hmm
Action: KeaponLaffin calls out
<KeaponLaffin> hellooooooooo
<Vee2d2> MrYou?
<KeaponLaffin> err
<KeaponLaffin> hrm
<KeaponLaffin> I have a question
<KeaponLaffin> I need to either get QuickBooks running in Linux, or something that can read it's company files
<KeaponLaffin> and suggestions?
<lupo_> KeaponLaffin: any chances of exporting data?
<KeaponLaffin> from QuickBooks?
<KeaponLaffin> yeah
<KeaponLaffin> lupo_: what now?
<lupo_> try to get it into a proprietary ERP?
<KeaponLaffin> ?
<KeaponLaffin> ERP?
<Vee2d2> I've seen the issue come up on the sql-ledger list a number of times and I seem to recall someone had written a script to help migrate data from qb to sl, but I lost all references to it in my drive crash. 
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<Vee2d2> http://www.sql-ledger.org/cgi-bin/nav.pl?page=source/index.html&title=Download has the script.. maybe after gnue-sb's schema stabalizes I can attempt to write something similar in python
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<Vee2d2> heya aa
<aa> hi all
<aa> hi Vee2d2
<aa> has anybody noticed something wrong with the cvs lately (since day before yesterday, more or less)
<aa> there seems to be a stale lock file in docbook
<Vee2d2> yea, some dolt used savanah as a server in a p2p network
<aa> it has been like that for some time now... dont those things go away after some time?
<Vee2d2> well, they're blocking that traffic but that doesnt keep it from coming in.. I think it will take some time to dissipate
<jcater> we are seeing the stale lock too
<jcater> but I can't find where the actual lock is stored on the cvs server
<jcater> we thought it would be in /var/lock/cvs, but can't find any files there
<jcater> :-(
<aa> hm, i 
<aa> ill see if someone around here knows...
<chillywilly> some guy posed about there being a stale lock in the hurd cvs
<chillywilly> too
<chillywilly> posted even
<chillywilly> dunno if that's some weird coincidence or something else
<Vee2d2> hmm.. I wonder if there should be a redirection or something when hitting http://www.nongnu.org/gnue-sb/ to go to http://www.gnu.org/software/gnue-sb/ instead
<jcater> probably not a coincidence
<jcater> the load in savannah is ridiculous
<jcater> so I'm sure all kinds of weird timeouts happened to other projects too
<aa> well, we can still checkout the directories one by one (except docbook)
<jcater> yeah, that's what we're having to do too
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<revDeke> i was able to get cvs last night about 11pm my time 
<revDeke> w/o lock issues (though horribly slow)
<revDeke> so lock must have happened after thta
<jcater> lock has been around for 4-5 days
<jcater> on docbook/shared
<revDeke> i 'suspect' they are seeing it a lot because people get sick of waiting (cvs update -Pd on gnue took nearly 3 hours)
<revDeke> jcater: hmmm it didnt show up for me (the lock)
<revDeke> and then people 'stop' mid stream
<aa> i had that problem day before yesterday (maybe another one, but exactly the same)
<revDeke> and lockfile gets left out there
<jcater> cvs server: Updating .
<jcater> cvs server: [14:20:23] waiting for anoncvs's lock in /cvsroot/gnue/gnue/docbook/shared
Action: jcater still gets it
<revDeke> has anyone talked FSF folks
<jcater> I accidentally left mine running all night one night
<jcater> same thing next morning
<revDeke> i.e. we know what 'caused' the problem
<revDeke> and somewhat know what they are doing about it
<revDeke> but would be nice to see ETA or some solution
<revDeke> as if this is going to continue for more than a month i seriously wonder if its worth moving our CVS to ash
<revDeke> and moving it back when they get the issues resolved
<jcater> then we lose anonymous cvs
<revDeke> jcater: no offense i think its gone anyhow
Action: revDeke doesnt know too many that will wait 4 hours for an anon cvs update :)
<revDeke> and if they will, we probably owe them an account ;)
Action: revDeke isnt heavily advocating this btw
<revDeke> its more a question of how long is it going to continue
<revDeke> as based on what all have said here is that FSF has done everything they can
<revDeke> and basically it boils down to a DDoS
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<aa> now things are coming quite fast, i checked out (everything except docbook) in about 15min
<aa> maybe less if i had stood over it
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<aa> calvino flipped?
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<jcater> cool
<jcater> I think savannah-hackers took care of the stale cvs lock
<chillywilly> so?
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<chillywilly> anyone know how to make mysql read sql statements from a file?
<jcater> I always use < myfile
<jcater> I don't know how to do it once in the mysql shell
<jcater> :(
<chillywilly> that's fine
<wtg> SOURCE file
<chillywilly> yea I just looked in google and it told me to do that
<chillywilly> heh, didn't give me any output :P
<chillywilly> but the data is there
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Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater
Action: jcater thought there was a debian-jr project
<jcater> was that renamed?
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<jcater> ah, meta packages are prefixed w/junior-* now
<jcater> doh!
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Action: drochaid sneezes
<wtg> bless you drochaid
<drochaid> ty
Action: jcater hands drochaid a tissue
<chillywilly> ack
<chillywilly> who let that thing in?
<drochaid> bwahahaha
<drochaid> I got bored .. and had a few mins spare :)
<chillywilly> you know there's a solution for boredom
<chillywilly> it's called work ;)
<chillywilly> maybe you've heard of it?
<drochaid> yeah, and I had a 23min break about 4hrs ago
<drochaid> that was the first one since 9am [now nearly 1am]
<chillywilly> jeeze ppl can't take a joke anymore
<drochaid> try me again when I'm not so tired :)
<drochaid> chillywilly: got your potential business running yet?
<chillywilly> well not but I am "subcontracting"
<chillywilly> or somethin'
<chillywilly> working with someone who has their business going
<drochaid> cool
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<drochaid> wb jcater
<jcater> thx
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<drochaid> wb jcater
<jcater> thx
<jcater> setting up ltsp at home
<drochaid> ah cool
<drochaid> I got that working a few months ago, then didn't have time to actually do anything with it :-/
<jcater> I use it at my offices
<jcater> but have been meaning to get it working at home
<jcater> so the little kid can use one of my old pcs
<jcater> to play on
<drochaid> heh
<drochaid> oh well, I've spoken enough here for another month or two .. off to sleep now ;)
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Nick change: SachaS -> SacahS_away
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--- Sat Mar 15 2003