I think we need a wiki wiki wiki! we need a wiki, like wiki wiki we need daquaris yea... and donuts and developers and some dessert strwaberry preferably strawberry even strawberry developers? Action: jcater bought 9 strawberry plants today erm, no back up 2 more mmmmm yeah Action: chillywilly had strwaberry shortcake for dessert today Action: chillywilly cannot type strawberry s/strawberry// Action: chillywilly downloads tux typing Action: derek has strawberry plants usually right now artichoke and cauliflower wikis are spawn of satan evil evil evil jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" derek: why? they have their place but its WAY limiting you read gnucash list? i think linas summed up best there no I don't read the gnucash list they are too fluid to make for good 'hard' documentation I use gnucash extensively though but don't feel the need to be subscribed to yet another list and overly fluid that they have to be heavily moderated to be useful moderation == contributor time bah I don't think they need to be moderated i.e. ONE MORE THING TO SUCK DEVELOPER TIME nah I see ppl writing "technotes" so what's the difference between that and doing a brain dump to a wiki? and wiki is not a doc replacement but a supplement, IMHO and also I don't think the wiki would need to be in the KC either fixe (~fixe@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection um most developers dont want to go to the web to get docs i.e. i work on a laptop that is disconnected a lot i would be hosed if technotes were in wiki on the net disconnected? wassat? ;) no one gets the packages docs off the main web site? packaged derek: write a cron job to make a local mirror of the wiki ;) jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is away: sleep fine yea g'night derek nice talkin' to ya reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. hi reinhard hey chillywilly are you up so late or am i so early? Q: What is the general plot in "shock and awe" A: Coalition forces bring US democracy and english food from a mail sig frankly I liked the more humorous quite messages better than the politcal ones s/the/your/ Action: chillywilly is up kinda late 1am or so Log message: change request result type from dictionary to array small changes to make appserver db driver work Action: reinhard does a happy dance chillywilly: they will return :) i hope rather sooner than later yea well also while I am anti-war I still love my country and fear for certain loved ones that are fighting...so some ppl might find them offensive that's not what i intend actually that's exactly the reason why i am anti war it kills people well, I am a pacifist at heart cause wel the Lord says if one man strikes you on the cheeck turn to him the other love youe enemies and pray for thos ewho persecute you... etc. yep just to make clear i am not anti u.s. and not at all anti u.s. people most (all) of the u.s. people i know i like very much (yes this even includes you, chillywilly :) ) HEH so i am anti war because i think war is bad for the u.s. and its people and of course bad for iraqi people and probably the whole region however i don't want to be offensive and never meant it so i think i'll change the quit messages to something less political thanks chilly for pointing this out to me well...I don't mean to rag on you about it but I prefer to laugh a little more :) in fact I would prefer you don't change it I agree with you anyway it's just a touchy subject btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning morning... sleep Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-zzzZZZ cw-zzzZZZ (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Lost terminal" chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-zzzZZZ siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-223-41.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. morning siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-223-41.netcologne.de) left irc: "Client Exiting" ninja (~rossg@203.156.10.81) joined #gnuenterprise. johannes_ (~johannes@M1250P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: reinhard -> rm-eat siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-223-41.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. Remosi (dahoose@port-210-54-58-8.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Isomer (dahoose@port-219-88-247-248.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Nick change: rm-eat -> reinhard hi reinhard hi siesel i saw your commit all i can say is "great" :) thx. Action: siesel hopes to get the gfd updated today it fits perfectly as i think this or next week i'll also have time for appserver again good. btw. do you think we should add the driver to the common 0.4.3 branch? I 've read the topic. But I think, that forms 0.5.0 still has some issues. i've lost track of the versions in common is 0.4.3 released or the one about to release? 0.4.3 is the latest "stable" release. 0.5.0 has added many many changes but there is a 0.4.x branch for maintance releases ok ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. so then i would say having the new dbdriver in 0.5.0 should be enough and our next release of appserver will play nice with 0.5.0 of forms/reports/common good. btw. is the class repository interface fully defined? Does it work? the interface should be stable I would like to have a working introspection part in the db driver when common 5.0 will be released however johannes is working on breaking recursion between class repository and language interface for the introspection part i'd rather use the business objects not the class repository I thought of accessing the class repository through the special style business objects i mean just querying the "gnue_classes" class and the like ok. I'll have a look at that. jamest (~jamest@hilbert.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. morning james good morning I see you're hammering on appserver how goes the battle? dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-181.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." quite well. The new API is working now. I.e. I can concentrate on the real problem in appserver now :) :( the real problem == ? combining trigger, method and class repository f.e. solve that recursion problem between language interface and class rep. or do you think that there are more important "Herausforderungen" ;) johannes_ is working on the recursion problem the trigger stuff is more of an "unattended" problem currently \query johannes_ dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: cw-zzzZZZ -> chillywilly ninja (~rossg@203.156.10.81) left irc: "Client Exiting" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. cool sup jcater warm very supposedly eve online (www.eve-online.com ) is written in stackless python stackless? yeah, you can't put more than one on top of the other it's that spiffy new curved top makes them too wobbly HEH so that game hasn't been released yet? i don't have any details just a buddy of mine is beta testing it you gotta pay to play it? and he told me about it i think so he's a big Earth and Beyond player Action: chillywilly doesn't have time for games and most are non-free which I think sets a person back like $13 a month Stackless python? That should let you have scheme-style contunuations. do you end up paying more if you "rent" a game? Action: chillywilly thwaps dsmith scheme is evil ;) well the stackless info I pulled from usenet he told me python are they using SDL lib? you know as much as I do i just wanted to share that at least one game developer may have found the bliss which is python :) Action: jamest wonders if they use kde desktops as their development platform that'd be like nirvana wouldn't it ? who cares I find neither desktop to be better than the other :) but in Gnome 2 they keep removing the features options rather dunno, but if they were gonna do some GUI reorg they shouldn't have released the bugger, IMHO I find it lame as hell the default answer being most of the time: "use gconf-editor" well, i think it's something gnue should adopt as well gconf? if we removed the ui feature from forms we'd have 0.5.0 out the door now drop designer and we'd be at 0.6.0 HEH Action: dsmith thwaps chillywilly many many times with the Scheme reference manual, but gives up because it's so light weight well that's exaggerating it a bit it's not he whole ui thatg is gone, but a lot of options that used to be around are gone IMHO you never TAKE away options but reorganization is fine...I think that's the KDE philosophy in fact if you I like Mosfet's response to havoc that was written a while back (havoc pennington) s/if you// Action: chillywilly just gets random words thrown in there dsmith: some day I'll learn a functional programming language...it will probably be elisp ;P chillywilly: Heh. I don't think that's possible. chillywilly: Not elisp. you don't think it is possible to learn elisp? chillywilly: I'm suspicious of being able to do funcional programming in elisp. hmm, I need to setup my boxes to use my server as the ntp server it's not general purpose my friend who swears by functional languages keep pimping guile ;) chillywilly: I use guile a lot. you would you're one of THOSE ppl ;) Action: dsmith hugs his guile doesn't ntp listen on 123? port 123 yes hmmm, I can't connect to the daemon via telnet root@frodo:/etc# telnet gandalf 123 Trying 192.168.1.1... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused :( Isn't it udp? oh is it? ;P how do I setup a client here to sync with the local ntp server? Action: chillywilly is lazy and hos 0 time to RTFM has* so I'll just ask the *NIX gods of #gnuenterprise... apt-get install ntp-simple chillywilly: reinhard beat me to it. Just install a Debian package and examine how it's configured. sorry apt-get install ntp bah hack ntp.conf? no just use debconf it asks you for an ntp server chillywilly: I use "sudo /usr/sbin/ntpdate -b -s otc1.psu.edu" that's lame Action: chillywilly had a similar cron job ntpdate does a sync once but that doesn't let me use my server which is already updated chillywilly: I've got that in my gkrellm time button. ntp runs as a daemon and updates periodically well I was running ntpdate in a cron job every 20 mins or so ;P the ntpd is said to be quite smart about when to update but that's silly IMHO right that is it observers how exact your clock is and I have ntpd running on the server and if your clock is quite exact then it updates less frequent and I want frodo to get its time from gandalf chillywilly: I'm on a laptop in many different places, so I can't run the daemon. chillywilly: so gandalf should act as an ntp server ntp packages does not contain the daemon vtw btw ntp make many small adjustments when it can. ntp-simple does instead of a huge jump. well ntp depends on ntp-simple IIRC nope should I just install then both? oh wait nm I frellin installed it again the same package !@#$%^ you're right reinhard ntp depends on (ntp-simple OR ntp-refclock) right refclick has radio clock stuff clock bah, it never prompted me...prolly cause I had an existing ntp.conf file dpkg-reconfigure should work hehe, it has ntp.css.gov as the default reinhard: also I think ntp "drifts" the time until things are synced whereas ntpdate leaps the time to the correct time ntpd that is chillywilly: sounds right, iirc jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "reboot" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. wonder how long it will take...they are about 2 mins off from each other chillywilly: Hmm. they need to be within a certain offset before it will try and sync. Not sure what that offset is. well it sure is taking its sweet time to sync off by over 2 mins more like 3 mins BLAH chillywilly: Usually, you do a ntpdate first as the machine boots to juspstart it. doe sntpdate use ntp.conf? ntpdate guess not bah root@frodo:/etc# ntpdate gandalf.libertyetech.com 24 Mar 10:36:11 ntpdate[27139]: no server suitable for synchronization found it no worky chillywilly: -b same error message I think this is why I gave up on it the last time ;P it cannot connect to gandalf's ntpd for some reason erm or pull data or whatever chillywilly: http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-algo.htm#AEN1786 Usually it takes about five minutes (five good samples) until a NTP server is accepted as synchronization source. Interestingly, this is also true for local reference clocks that have no delay at all by definition. so I should let my ntpd run on frodo for a bit the eh? but why won't ntpdate work? ntp.css.gov worked chillywilly: not sure. chillywilly: Turn on verbose error reporting. I think the ntpd on gandalf isn't working correctly or something erm, I don't think there's a flag for that Action: chillywilly looks again fixe (~fixe@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. theor verbose flag just prints out version information (gee, how useful) chillywilly: try -d cool 192.168.1.1: Server dropped: strata too high only thing that looks suspicious how the hell do I make gandalf "suitable" for synchronization? Action: chillywilly reads the FAQ https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/valhalla-list/2002-June/003001.html dude my ntpd has been running forever maybe my ntp servers are bad Action: chillywilly changes gandalf to use ntp.css.gov lupo (lupo@p5085FD62.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater? chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: "bbl" chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. trout1 sup dawg hey chillywilly, official gnue troutslapper :) um, ok hey lupo official loopy lupo guy loopy? i feel like that little guy from the "peanuts" comics alng for crazy s/guy/dog/ slang ah nutty, loopy, off your rocker ;) loco nutjob you have a rich knowledge of terms concerning craziness and stupidity well there are a lot of ppl who cover both in this world ;P right :-/ the difference between insanity and genius is success ;) "the difference between me and a madman is that i am not mad" - salvador dali revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: you around? yo reverend another win98 failure issue I like how you ditched me last night didn't say bye or anything just went to bed what's up with that? c:\ got wiped er files on c:\ got wiped ie. system files have win98 boot disk have io.sys drivespace.bin and etc Action: chillywilly smacks revDeke about with a trout but cant get them to "copy" no ignoring me! that's not allowed revDeke: you're not my friend anymore...I'm going home ;) oh wait... revDeke: whaddayamean by "not getting em to copy" loopy lupo copy a:\io.sys c:\ yields file not found - a:\io.sys but it exists if i do a dir /ahs h = hidden, yes i think it has to do with not letting me copy 'system files' or hidden s = system IIRC what is command to change that? attrib? or somethign so you have to use the "attrib" command to first remove the attributes from the file don't ask for syntax :) attrib gives bad command or file name :( attrib or use 4dos install debian ;) sigh not an option grrr Action: dsmith reminices about 4dos attrib -s file IIRC or some crap like that is not sys c: available? im scared to do that should i just type sys c: sys c: should work revDeke: maybe attrib isn't in the %PATH% i guess the most troubling thing is that the utilities are not on the "boot" disk on win98 it worked all the time it is windows 98 you expect its "rescue" disks to be "helpful"? ah try that sys c: thing then be brave ;) will try sys c: why not back up the data and reinstall windows always works better on a reinstall ;) I think windows is like some radioactive substance sys c:\ yields bad command or file name i.e., it "decays" and has a "half-life" ;) stupid disk doesn't have anything decent on it? revDeke: chdir to c:\windows\command and try everything there, because there should be all important commands revDeke: err, what lupo said no %PATH% setup Action: jcater would keep a knoppix cd in my toolkit for stuff like this too :) :) my last windows installation has gone 3 1/6 years ago, so don't ask too specific questions :) but sys.com a:\ c: works knoppix makes a great "repair" tool ;) revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "CGI:IRC 0.5 (EOF)" anyone know of a source for more current woody kernel-images? jcater: whaddayamean with "more current"? woody has 2.4.18 as latest I need 2.4.20 Action: siesel compiled 2.4.20 i386 myself Action: jcater can compile it but blah and build the deb package but it needs a new kernel package, and much other stuff, so its easier to get everything directly from unstable ah that's not going to happen I guess I'll custom build a kernel jcater: source lines for that are under http://channel.debian.de/faq/ch-dpkgundco.html#s-makekpkg section 2.10.5.1 jcater: page is in german, but you can just take the source line jcater: i assume that there are more current kernel images ok thx InsanitY (insanity@co58147-a.olden1.ov.home.nl) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) bye jcater: sorry for bugging, but don't forget my patch, otherwise ppl won't be able to save files in designer when using python <2.2.2 lupo (lupo@p5085FD62.dip.t-dialin.net) left #gnuenterprise. jcater: seems that there IS some prebuild woody kernel: deb http://www.fs.tum.de/~bunk/debian/ woody/bunk-1 main non-free contrib cool lupo (~chatzilla@pD9542E51.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-223-41.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) hello who made the gnue brochures? reinhard: are you here? run! siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-117-27.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel! chillywilly: what? run form lupo from he's loopy lupo ;) wicked guy, ain t i? seriously, who made the gnue brochures? i consider presenting GNUe on LinuxTag 2003 (biggest european fair and conference on gnu/linux and free software), at least at the FSF Europe booth and i want to know where to get the sources of the brochures, so that i can update and translate them jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Hey'all. Anyone know if there's a clever way to use a Windows ODBC driver on Linux? (specifically, with GNUe) revDeke/derek was only one I knew of using that driver Action: jcater doesn't remember specifics about it I'm looking at doign something terribly crazy: Using GNUe to view data in a Lotus Notes database. =) hi lupo lupo (~chatzilla@pD9542E51.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-117-27.netcologne.de) left irc: "Client Exiting" oh i missed lupo night reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody" jbailey: images are in forms now i think you needed tham them ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" jamest: Cool! Does it just read from a binary field? not at the moment it's a file pointer in the field Good 'nuff. does this mean you'll be able to use it now? I think so. Does the file have to be a local filesystem, or can it be a URL? well, right now it's just a file it'll be easy enough to make url based as we have that in common already i'll fix it tonight http://www.math.ksu.edu/~jamest/sample.jpeg is a sample jamest: Is that your mistress? =) that's pretty cool, jamest... I can imagine several ways I could use this in my stuff.. Vee2d2: the picture of the chick? or image support? :) both damnit! =) lol that's my pr0n tracker app I was making as a suprise gift for derek the pic is off the back of one of my wifes magazines that was laying next to her computer lying next to "her" computer? Action: jcater finds that hard to believe jcater: Aren't you married? Don't you know that once you get married you own nothing anymore? jbailey: you don't have kids, do you? 'cause once you have kids neither of you own anything sigh are we the only couple w/ his and hers computers ? no I'm not typically allowed on her computer anyway as I "screw it up" I have separate computers for brandy and TJ well LTSP stations :) jamest: Used to have separate computers. We also used to have more than one room in the apartment. ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-59.bras01.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-59.bras01.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" jamest (~jamest@hilbert.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: "later.." ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-59.bras01.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is back (gone 17:10:27) aaron_ (coyote@msp-24-163-193-174.mn.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" wtg (~merlinx@ppp289.qld.padsl.internode.on.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) wtg (~merlinx@ppp292.qld.padsl.internode.on.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_ (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_ (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: Client Quit jamest_ (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: jamest_ -> jamest esv (~esv@dsl-200-67-32-146.prodigy.net.mx) joined #gnuenterprise. hi hi Action: esv jst downloaded lgnue from cvs s/lgnue/gnue/ and have a problem... ok what? guess I shouldnt be using it.. ;) huh? what's the problem you are having? ok, if I call gfcvs without arguments I get the following error. Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/sapdb/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFClient.py", line 41, in ? from gnue.forms.GFInstance import * File "/home/sapdb/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFInstance.py", line 38, in ? from gnue.forms.GFForm import * File "/home/sapdb/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFForm.py", line 42, in ? from gnue.forms.GFObjects import * File "/home/sapdb/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFObjects/__init__.py", line 22, in ? jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. exec "from gnue.forms.GFObjects.%s import %s" % (module,module) File "", line 1, in ? File "/home/sapdb/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFObjects/GFEntry.py", line 31, in ? from gnue.forms import GFDisplayHandler dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-181.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. File "/home/sapdb/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFDisplayHandler.py", line 35, in ? import Image ImportError: No module named Image fsck i'll fix that you need to install PIL Python Imaging Library that will be the quick fix ok, btw, the other day I was playing with the documentation, I added a paraghrap :) docs? for gnue? yup. Action: jamest blinks hey jcater, look someone's doing docs docs for gnue however......it was just copy/paste from python's home page. :) I see some docs have page numbers, what were you using to write those pages.. all the current docs for common, reports, forms are in OpenOffice are they exported to html/pdf and .... from the swx(?) files? are those original files in the cvs tree? i'm not sure which docs you speak of the .swx files are the masters s#swx#sxw@ yeah, something like that :) I meant the masters hey, now no need to get fancy we all speak s/swx/swx/ around here :) I know, as you know I am a diehard sysadmin that reminds me another question... anyone using sapdb on linux or is it worth changing my backend and test. i'm not using it Action: esv getting back at doc... so, the masters are in OO, what are those sgml files well, those damn tools coders are using OO i think the other docs are in docbook oo? I thought you people were using klyx or something. at one time yes but OO sucks less Being a GNU project, you really ought to be using texinfo. plus jcater made some sha-wheat looking templates Action: dsmith runs Action: jamest thwaps dsmith with a hardback texinfo manual Actually, oo is pretty good. I just can't ever get it to do what I want. the first docs in gnue were texinfo Action: esv runs, let me know to my email, pls. what email? stuq_ (~stuq@170-215-194-56.bras01.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-205-59.bras01.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) fwiw: we have rms' blessing on docs basically it boils down to as long as we can 'convert' to TeXinfo we are ok and privately i think there are some internal 'conflicts' going on within FSF to maybe adopt docbook in favor of TeXinfo largely because gnome and so many GNU projects are refusing to use TeXinfo Action: derek is really rather impressed with linuxdoc a docbook variant Action: dsmith shakes his head it got rid of most of the complexity of docbook and debian is very solid on the conversion tools for it (me cant speak for other distro's) but no editor :( so i am with jamest and jcater OO does well :) Action: derek just wishes i didnt need an 8 PC cluster to open the thing ;) jcater speaking of that did you find a way to save OO files uncompressed? Action: derek thinks thats the big issue to date with them is they are zipped which sucks for cvs and diffs other than that im quite pleased I really don't understand why people don't like texinfo. It's very simple. There is excellent support for it in emacs, and it creates stunningly beautiful printed output. who in the hell wants to doc in emacs? dsmith: texinfo rocks but please re-read your statement derek: yes and no "excellent support for it in emacs" yes, I found out how Action: jamest take a moment away from writing a gfd in emacs to read IRC no, it's broken in current OO release it should read... "only decent suport in emacs" Action: jcater thwaps jamest the problem is forcing emacs on people is mean Action: derek notes i love emacs and live in it, but i wouldnt force it on others derek: C-c C-t C-v runs xdvi, stuff like that. well, I'd use designer but someone dicked up the UI system and made it flaky jcater can vouch that on a fresh machine to edit a 3 line text file i apt-get install emacsXX before even trying vi heh Action: derek thought jcater was gonna choke on a donut at LWE when i did just that ;) derek: Well, vi is good for editing Makefiles and things to build emacs. ;^) Action: derek only knows :q in vi dude I know nothing in emacs and i only learned that until i found the $EDITOR variable so cvs would let me do commit messages in emacs ;) ^\ doesn't even work and that's just WRONG jcater: you can honestly say its almost impossible to accidently hit the 'close' key and lose your work Action: derek is using mouse too much from work :( bad habits and so now i find emacs pisses me off a bit as it wont let me cut and paste from other applications some times jamest: So, do you irc with erc-mode? Action: jcater actually uses kate all the time now without having to do strange things I just use vi for ssh sessions Action: derek needs to get some snack food its respond to gnue-sb time and prep for a 0.1 release of that little bear jcater: are there 0.5.0 pre-releases (re the topic) or is that a test cvs so we can make 0.5.0 pre-releases? also jamest/jcater you interested in doing SF LWE this year? its first week in august i'd love to do it Action: derek probably wont be able to make it but money is lacking just to give you added incentive to go ;) wife and I have been talking about doing another one I'm not sure how serious she is i hope to be at a music festival in monterey the week before Action: jcater hates missing the LWE NY and cant take the time off work or i would just stay a few more days and roll into LWE :P) Vee2d2: you still alive and kicking? stuq_ (~stuq@170-215-194-56.bras01.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" I think everyone should learn both editros emacs is great for docing and coding but vi is good for quick and dirty config file editing....but I haven't fired up vim in a long time and I used to be die hard vimer....but emacs has a steep leanring curve I mean you can program the damn thing that's pretty steep ;) you can program vim too mine has a python engine even it didn't back in the day but who in the hell would want to :) I wish emacs had a python engine emacs isn't an editor elisp is scary it's a virtual OS virtual lisp machine jcater: well the idea was back before gui is what I like to call it emacs was your windowing environment ;) Yes, it a virtual os with an editor inside too. i.e. it was almost like deskview for programmers M-x shell :P Multiple windows. Mmmm. Action: jcater longs for the days of edlin Action: jcater ducks jcater: Do you remember fansi.sys? vaguely, yes btw, I found some cool elisp to turn colors on for the shell (so that ls alias to ls --color=auto doesn't hose your shell) that was the ansi.sys kick-ass replacement, iirc man, talk about nostalgia They had some macros/escape codes that basicaly turned edling into a full screen editor. Weird. edlin It would always keep a listing of your file on the screen or something. I sure wish I could purge those kinds of memories and use the storage for somehting more useful. fixe (~fixe@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: "Client exiting" jcater: im not sure how to respond to your email on gnue-sb other than "yes" let me better perhaps say it as gnue-sb i am hoping to be very informal code and refactor, code and refactor so when i look at what you sent im thinking ok we will start coding that and if questions come up we will debate them :) mommy is subversions down? wild did you all get my earlier messages? for somereason my network card dropped the connection but irc didnt appear to go into limbo about gnue-sb? yeah yep loud and clear or something jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left #gnuenterprise. hmmm scared jamest away wonder if jcater went way of buffalo or if he is frantically trying to get irc mode in emacs working who is using emacs? I've tried emacs several times I try it every 3 to 6 months I did too and give up in frustration then finally I got used to it it is a bitch dsmith_ (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-181.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. I am hmm? you're what? Using emacs yea, but I figured from the conversation it was either jcater or jamest I already know you're a freak dsmith_ ;) Oh, jamest I think you live scheme Yep. emacs is right up that alley ;) like* not live blah I like Python. And I do use vi. Use the right tool. You guys are just such Python heads it's fun to talk about Scheme and emacs. Action: chillywilly is writing perl right now Action: jcater has used them all i havent found anything else to edit python other than emacs Action: derek hasnt looked too ahrd er hard even i did some emacs lisp stuff before was kind of cool, but didnt have time to get 'involved' in it Isn't there some gui integrated environment for python? tis ok, I have trained ye all very well in the language of typo jcater: no response to gnue-sb comment? And I'm not talking about emacs. iirc, python comes with an editor IDLE or something yea derek: no not really hmmm Action: derek wants to replace great plains probably nearly as bad as you do :) only other comment i would have is that ARIA exists that supposedly cleaned up NOLA would it be worth looking at them and revisiting building on NOLA/Aria/AccLite or just starting from scratch and your proposal also louis' two tier proposal exists out there jcater: you have any kind of 'roadmap' template you are using for gnue tools? Action: derek is going to try to assemble mini roadmap for gnue-sb derek: a good masta deos not micromanage ;), j/k ARIA? chillywilly: on gnue-sb i think im the slave Vee2d2: is the masta derek: look at ROADMAP.in in forms/ Vee2d2: crack that whip! ;) http://arias.sourceforge.net/ why .in? is there makefile for it or something? yes\ common/utils has a script that creates a .txt file and the .html that goes on ash does it have --help option? it's in utils/ so no :) damn where did aria come from? aria is derivitive of nola iirc been looking over floor plans with de wife.. now she wants to take over the computer.. bbia-sompn derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is trying galeon-snapshot against my better judgement but damn galeon been broken too many days jcater got html roadmap to work and txt cool --- Tue Mar 25 2003