jcater: doing roadmaps sux hah ya well jcater i somewhat responded to you by well not responding :) Remosi: gnue-sb starting to get excited again but its getting late :( (seeing how i went to work at 5:00am this morning) aiyee.. and I am arse-wooped from mowing my personal jungle today im hoping to have 0.2.x ready by the time 0.5.x of the tools is out to give some incentive for people to beat on the tools there is a lot missing from the roadmaps, but i suspect to keep feature sets minimal and releases often (hopefully) Vee2d2: i have read but not digested fully all your mails i think im thinking about pricing much different than how you have represented but maybe not ok i think we discussed after your last email but i never wrote it down time to start documenting :) Remosi: item has 'base price' then as you state some sort of tiered pricing table likely by volume discount then there is 'customer' price discounts and the derivation of price is the lowest of the two Action: derek suspects we can make it even more complicated than that but i suppose thats suitably complex to start with that fits my needs, but actuall my needs arent even that complex as the 'customer' price will be one of the tiered prices, I would just like to be able to specify that DerekCo(tm) gets tier 2 or better regardless of volume ordered.. etc. hmmm maybe best to start small like that i.e. quicker to market and would be fairly flexible if tiered pricing were suitably modifiable last two systems wrote went the other way no such thing as 'tiered' pricing rather it was negotiated at customer level up front so didnt matter if you bought 1 or 100 of something it was what the contract price was that mattered but it was generally a percentage of discount of base pricing, no? but for those folks it was much more contract based i.e. contracting to do volume levels right. it was discount of base yes but by product so say you are a big customer of mine and you buy lots of product A but not much product B and A and B are manufacturered by two different people i might give you deep discount on A but not B ahh, yea. That's slightly more complex than I need. =) i would suspect you might have same need (tapping into old clothing retail knowledge) for example we coudl not discount ralph lauren, tommy hilifiger etc they set the 'windows' on when we could discount those (basically only after they discontinued them) because it is only way they can keep their prices 'elevated' Action: derek suspects you might do business with people who dont give you discounts or if they do you probably have to do huge volume Action: derek is digging but say you might be able to get good discounts on hanes but no discount on LL Bean polo shirts even if you have a good customer that buys hanes polos normally if you extended the dicount to something where you couldnt even get that discount basically you lose your butt :) yea similar issues can arise if I have to source through a different vendor for one reason or another. freight can be a big factor too but I see these issues as concerns when setting my base prices Vee2d2: thats what killed one of these companies (freight) they made us do complex calculations to set 'min' order quanities so if you buy 1 of product X its like 10.00 but 5 of product X its like 15.00 cause product X aint that expensive and most of the cost is shipping yea, it's easy to pay more to ship something than the something is worth to begin with. it looked so bad they finally made set minimums :) just as well, worth the time to invoice, etc.. yip Action: derek has to run off to bed i fear excited though yip =) I am too hope to fill in more roadmap and get more done tomorrow jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "gnue-sleep" Action: derek is away: bed nite Action: Vee2d2 slithers off to his bed Action: chillywilly really wants to sleep... must get this done... Nick change: chillywilly -> cwzzz reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. wtg (~merlinx@ppp292.qld.padsl.internode.on.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection wtg (~merlinx@ppp292.qld.padsl.internode.on.net) joined #gnuenterprise. damn bug btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith_ (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-181.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection lupo (lupo@pD9542E26.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning man, the weather sucks yesterday, we had sunshine and at least 15°C here and now, it's gray and cold hmmm still sunshine and 15°C here :) hi lupo hi reinhard wassssssup :) you read my message from yesterday? i saw that you looked for me but didn't see a message it was about linuxtag 2003 in karlsruhe i consider to do a presentation on gnue ah yes saw that i'm not here at that time :((( but i think it's a good idea perhaps a talk, other option is to have a presentation at a booth do you know any other active gnue users in EU? sure Nick change: SachaS -> SachaBack siesel :) Nick change: SachaBack -> SachaS hehe :) well have i told you i was at chemnitzer linuxtage, couple of weeks ago no for an event with 1700 visitors, and perhaps 50 booth talks, i was asked about gnue and people hung on my lips when i only told a little bit about gnue one even spontaneously decided to donate 120Eur to FSFE :) (...asked about gnue quite often, i wanted to say 3 lines above) sounds great it even feels great :) :) btw, is there some doc on how to work with appserver? i think businesses are desperate for gnue yep because they are sick of selling their souls to navision or whoever yes and no there is no doc yet on how to write applications with appserver :( there are some low-level docs and some samples i saw the api docs as i said yesterday appserver was like paused for a month or two are the samples conclusive enough how to work with appserver? but we will give it a boost no now not sure this is really something we have to do urgently make it possible to write some primitive apps using appserver so that we can "show off" something expecting a 0.1.0-grade appserver for the 0.5.0 release? yep sigh it all depends so much on real life interference there are days i get more done than in the month before Action: lupo is reminded of a discussion that "sigh"s should be forbidden on #gnuenterprise :) that's the way it is same goes for me i did more work yesterday than i did in the whole week before suppose someone were willing to pay for you or johannes to work on appserver or some part of gnue, would you accept it? erm i _do_ pay johannes to work on appserver money's not the problem ups fettnaepfchen :) time? supporting about 150 installs of a proprietary ERP system gives you quite a bit of responsibility btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) choose your default problem: [m]oney, [t]ime or [p]ower (multiple selections allowed) i didn't know that you have such a large install base and i can't abandon them some of them are future GNUe candidates but i can extrapolate that, because i worked for a company that supported a partner company's proprietary ERP; and only 10 customers took, on some parts of the year, more than a quarter to half of our worktime :( sure there's always a 80/20 rule 20 % of the customers eat 80 % of the time so, if somebody came to you today and asked for a two-tier gnue solution, could you deliver? no to be honest i haven't even looked at forms for months reinhard: that's called A-level customers, and some of them are cash-cows :) right hrm there are so many things i'd like to do i'm just missing docs support my "old" customers (because with most of them i have a very good relationship) write code for appserver write docs for appserve look at forms, reports maybe look at gnue-sb write apps with appserver yes and then there are those things called "garden", "family", "life" etc ;-) life? what is that? :) ah yes and i nearly forgot take over the world i think those are my plans for the next 3 months pah. that's my dayjob. :) lol well i wonder what to do in the next 3 months i ask myself whether to stick with biology or rather study medicine what things to do for FSFE what for GNUe and private life, of course afk for a moment (making coffee) back i go to university now bye then lupo (lupo@pD9542E26.dip.t-dialin.net) left #gnuenterprise. Nick change: reinhard -> rm-eat johannes__ (~johannes@M1250P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard_ (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. rm-eat (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 111 (Connection refused) johannes_ (~johannes@M1250P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 111 (Connection refused) Nick change: reinhard_ -> reinhard ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-181.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." jamest (~jamest@129.130.6.1) joined #gnuenterprise. lupo (lupo@pD9542599.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: cwzzz -> chillywilly good morning morning yip dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. Stoke_ (~stoker@ppp92.tc-1.roc-pt.ny.localnet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. lupo if you are interested in doing linuxtag i wonder if the guys from codeworks will be there (arturas and such) they might be able to help with some resources i don't know whether they plan to come i'd really like to present 0.5 to the ppl morning all oh no! chillywilly! duck and cover! derek: georg greve (prez of fsf europe) has agreed to having a presentation place at the fsfe booth Stoke (~stoker@ppp504.tc-1.roc-pt.ny.localnet.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) lupo: the only reason I said sighs should be forbidden is because now to me they have a bad connotation, they remind me of this guy in #dotgnu and he's wickedly depressed all the time and tries to drag the whole channel down with him (and constantly types *sigh*)....but really I was kidding chillywilly: dotgnu? wtf you talkin'bout? lupo: other channels do exist on this network http://www.dotgnu.org lupo: you talk to georg regularly tell him im still HIGHLY interested in launching gnu business network crap late for work Action: derek is away: work someone tell jcater to read the logs: http://www.livejournal.com/users/masterh/66442.html derek: still here ? chillywilly: _other_ _channels_ ? are you joking? afk derek: he mentions you every time i talk to him :) who the heck is master harold? reinhard: who mentions who? Action: chillywilly thwaps lupo pay attention! ;) Action: lupo thwaps chillywilly don't tell me what to do! Action: chillywilly drops a truckload of VAXen on lupo you're so stupid, you couldn't find your ass with two hands and a flash light :) Action: Vee2d2 sends lupo and chillywilly to opposing corners of the channel grow up why? i don't want to be the only one of us two who grows up you're so lame don't make me use the trout you're lamer erm normal trout or magic trout? lupo: georg greve mentions derek trout is trout magic trout only exist in loopy lupo 's mind he fears the magic trout Thwapping trout are especially smelly Fear the trout (or is is ph34r) reinhard: ah. okay :) yes, i've talked to georg about an hour or so ago about the gnu business network. i assume you'd join the party as well? chillywilly: my reality is beyond your imagination (that is the "loopy" part) your reality is an illusion you can't tell the difference because you are loopy how do you accept a suggestion in OO writer? anywho, this is stupid thanks! Action: chillywilly does not understand the question esv: ? lupo: sure Action: esv understands the answer 42 is the answer of course but what is the question? reinhard: i'd like to see things go forward there was writing a sentnece in OpenOffice writer, it has a suggestion and Im trying to use it. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi Jason word 09:17 < derek> someone tell jcater to read the logs: http://www.livejournal.com/users/masterh/66442.html who is mater herald? my coder that one intern of yours? about to be full-time but yes esv: I believe you just hit enter just found out, thanks he's removed you form his buddy list on account of you don't show him any love anymore ph34r th3 tr0u7! full-time? lupo: permanent, 40 hours a week jcater: which tasks? little bit of everything we are a small company Action: lupo wishes full-time documentation and development for gnue oh, not full-time GNUe :-( I squeeze in some gnue time here at the office :P but we are strained on resources without trying to gnue all the time :) well then, fine :) siesel (jan@xunzi.sinologie.uni-bonn.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi hi siesel! hi Christian, wie gehts? btw, why xunzi.sinologie.uni-bonn.de ? ganz gut, danke :) yep woops siesel: was machst du vom 10-13 juli? wei? nicht. linuxtag sinologie.uni-bonn.de = work "gnue presentation planned" (according to me) cool you work for the department of sinology? yes. but tomorow is my last day, and still too much to do/finish/get working :) well, you can search through the irc logs. georg greve (fsf europe president) said he'd support a presentation area at the fsf europe booth last work day or what? last work day. then I can concentrate on my master thesis :( and you improved your chinese in that time? :) what's your master thesis about using a database based aproach to determine marked passive sentences in the zhuangzi jamest (~jamest@129.130.6.1) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) (zhuangzi = book in classical chinese, the 2nd philosophical book about daoism) hi jan hi chillywilly siesel: "marked passive" ? kind of [apple] [passive marker] [eat] instead of [apple] [eat] passive means I have to check ALL sentences by myself. marked passive means I can search for passive markers to limit my search scope btw. do you remeber how to open a message box from within a trigger? siesel: erm. it's in the forms documentation, i guess it was showMesg or something like that I found setStatusText() aha, its. showMessage() yep dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: "later.." jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (jan@xunzi.sinologie.uni-bonn.de) left irc: "http://www.blackened.com/blackened/" lupo (lupo@pD9542599.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1" jamest (~jamest@hilbert.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. fixe (~fixe@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: esv has a question on cvs version of gnue-forms "no" Vee: no? ok, thanks, esv (~esv@dsl-200-67-32-146.prodigy.net.mx) left irc: "Leaving" esv (~esv@dsl-200-67-32-146.prodigy.net.mx) joined #gnuenterprise. esv: no, you dont have a question on cvs version of gnue-froms. may I ask why? I'm just ribbing you.. what's the question? well, today Im little touchy, this is the second time it happens and my house's alarm went off right, I dont, I should be using designer, but it is not working. S11001001 (~sirian@192.195.225.6) joined #gnuenterprise. File "/home/sapdb/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/widgets/image.py", line 35, in ? DB000: _imageTypes={ 'gif' :wxBITMAP_TYPE_GIF, DB000: NameError: name 'wxBITMAP_TYPE_IFF' is not defined the same happens with ....BMP wtf? Action: jamest cvs up's i think that's not needed anymore lemme check ok, commented wxBITMAP_TYPE_IFF out and now is working. esv: please cvs up and try again ok\ that whole dict can go away lupo (lupo@pD9542599.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: getting back at doc, wouldnt be it better just rip off the Python Intro and forward the reader to the online tutorials? ? for what? i don't think we have a python tutorial in our docs well there is an intro, I belive at the designer manual. ah, i didn't know that i doubt we do too much basic python in our docs as we hardly find the time to write how our stuff works :) S11001001 (~sirian@192.195.225.6) left #gnuenterprise. S11001001 (~sirian@192.195.225.6) joined #gnuenterprise. well, there are two or three sample scriptlets to show how to include debbugging and stuff S11001001 (~sirian@192.195.225.6) left #gnuenterprise. there is also intention to explain strings, lists, tuples, dictionaries, etc. hmmm I'll guess that jcater was doing that. He's got way too much free time on his hands and tends to get bored and do things like that. why dont just rip that part, and reference the python home page and tutorials they have done a heck of a good job, also they WILL mantain it. s/tutorials/tutorials,/ it is accually in the forms Developers-Guide page 33 (OpenOffice) I wanted a basic introduction to python so ppl could quickly write some sample triggers it was never meant to replace better tutorials such as those at python.org I had considered ripping off someone's short tutorial if I could find one appropriately licensed dsmith (~dsmith@207.180.207.254) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: define "appropriately licensed" something I can include in a GFDL-licensed document they may all be ok, I'm not sure I haven't had time to research it well, the python tutorial does not seem to have a copyright at all, http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node16.html however, I belive a good reference should be due. ;) in the US, then, it has an implicit copyright unless if explicitly states we can use it, then it's under a restricted copyright i guess under international multilateral contracts, a restrictive copyright is default s/guess/remember having something heard that/ ok, good thing I stopped copy/paste from there. is it distributed with the source code? will check It's the Berne Convention capitalist convention of freedom suppression through fascist pseudo-helpful copyright system er sorr y :) lupo: who respects that anymore? this looks good ....http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/ python intro. Action: esv runs esv: never mind. with some knowledge of history and macroeconomics, you can well compute a timeframe when that copyright system doesn't work anymore. esv: our modern copyright system is what software engineers call "broken by design". so don't think about it. free software is anyway the most intelligent way to use copyright *g* afk ping pong ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: revDeke is just here to see the ping-pong match advertised in the logs what is the score? mad goats 3 jamest 0 was last score espn reported Action: chillywilly thinks mad perl goats are worse I like the idea of having a minitoot on python in the dev guide, as for one (/me raises hand) not already familiar with python it lessens the distraction of having to follow links to reference material/sites then come back to the dev guide, and go back, then come back.. etc.. allows for a single point of reference while digging into GNUe goodies, real convenient. lupo (lupo@pD9542599.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1" plus I had intended on the tutorial to be from the point of view of writing triggers so it wouldn't necessarily cover all aspects of python just enough to write useful triggers i definitely agree a trigger tutorial that covers the 'basics' of python is great as the guy that tries to sell this thing to people one of the things i like to tout is that you can write data driven applicatiosn with little or no code being able to show very quickly how to do basic things is a huge plus for example launching another form or other things I'm still waiting to cut my teeth on this very topic Action: jbailey shudders I hate that expression. It makes me think of fingernails on a chalkboard. my little one is in the cutting teeth stage so I've been using it more recently.. =) Action: revDeke does Vee2d2 a teething ring out of the gnue freezer siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-220-247.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: revDeke notes a gnue teething ring consists of frozen trout siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-220-247.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) Action: revDeke needs to run away siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-109-59.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left #gnuenterprise. mmMMm.. glazed trout Action: Vee2d2 dances into the other room dsmith (~dsmith@207.180.207.254) left irc: "later.." glazed trout? Is that like a glazed donut? But for chillywilly instead of jcater? HEH Action: esv is back, ok I'll wrk on the intro to python tutorial. just need more memory for my machine. ;) and I'll ask more questions reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Don't believe in miracles -- rely on them" dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@hilbert.math.ksu.edu) left irc: Remote closed the connection jamest (~jamest@hilbert.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: you around? depends on who's asking Action: revDeke dials 1800-4DO-NUTS here is my thought process revDeke: Wow. You generally seem more homophobic than that.= ) was reviewing your accounting proposal Whose nuts will you do first, Derek? =) and thought would make what you have basically gsd's and start categorizing it Action: revDeke hopes if he ignores jbailey, the embarassment will go away ;) then started thinking maybe worth taking acclite and comparing to aria (schema wise) then compare it to what you had Action: jamest covers his nuts and backs away from derek and compare it to what louis had for a proposal Action: revDeke repastes thats number as 1-800-4-DONUTS So there's this pirate who walks into a bar. And he's got this steering wheel sticking out of his pants. He orders a drink, and the bartender brinks it to him, and decides the question has to be asked. "Why is taht steering wheel down your pants, doesn't it bother you?" The pirate answers: "Arrrr. It drives me nuts." booooo Action: chillywilly throws trout at jbailey until he runs off stage Nick change: revDeke -> fuku2 is jcater here? ? chillywilly: jcater responded with "depends who's asking" so im trying someone else :) Nick change: fuku2 -> troutman hah Nick change: troutman -> revDeke who is hilbert? is that like dilbert brother or something? brb chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: "leaving" chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sorry users bbias Action: jbailey is away: veggie dog. revDeke/fuku2/troutman: I was thinking the same thing ok will go that route will have to wait until i get home i suppose Action: jcater just doesn't want to spend a lot of time debating schemas Action: revDeke either as stated in my message to gnue-sb I'm supposed to be shopping for a replacement at the moment just figured could browse them side by side to get the most data they'd like me to rewrite in house, but aren't sure about time frame so a proof of concept quickly july 1 is your date? implementation/training date, yes decision date, no ouch but for implementation, we are very flexible I mean, it doesn't need to be great plains come Jul 1, by any means how is reports looking? reports was my major focus Action: revDeke has nasty report to do here i would love to beat reports with internally? ARGH! until jamest had me put it on hold to get 0.5.0 out the door after 0.5.0 release, it will once again become my main focus actually I just goat raped designer Action: revDeke might be able to get reports in current incarnation to do what i want and he stop what he was going to try and stop me revDeke: probably maybe i will whip up example of output and what the tables would be like what all is in gnue-sb now? jamest: a lot of thought. =) more than contact mgmnt? and you can tell me if i have snoballs chance in hell lol product management and contact management mostly product management = inventory control? no pre inventory control basically defining what products you have setting pricing etc where can I get more info? Action: jamest has forgotten http://www.gnu.org/software/gnue-sb/ jamest: cat /dev/random savannah ;P cvs co jcater: that might be more accurate ;) jcater: thats how I tweak designer yeah, I know snicker wow, you have a website cat /dev/random > cvs/gnue/designer/src/GFoo.py l8r jamest (~jamest@hilbert.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" Action: revDeke suspects we need a link on gnue site to gnue-sb as many people are amazed we have information available yea, and is the old 'non-gnu' gnuesb site still there in some form? its amazing how well pushed our logs are Vee2d2: unfortunately revDeke: is there a way we can redirect people poking that to the correct url? i get emails about gnue-sb saying hey i heard about gnue-sb but i cant find it Vee2d2: dont know, i suppose it is just a matter of http redirect remind me when i am at home and i will look at it revDeke: k Action: Vee2d2 gotta do the grocery thing.. bbiab revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left #gnuenterprise. You've asked for them, and we've listened. NetBank will soon launch banking services specifically designed for sole proprietorships, non-profit organizations, partnerships, LLCs, and business corporations. In the future, we'll offer additional products such as small business loans. you see that jcater ? hmm how weird btw, I still hate their software ;) ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-196-63.bras01.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. but I have yet to find a bank that has decent on-line bill pay AND good software either one or the other dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) left irc: "later.." Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:41:17) jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" chillywilly: fyi, i use VirtualBank.com, they are great, if you really care you might want to check them out... they do not offer biz accounts yet... but my only real complaint is that their site is a little slow but very reliable (which is surprising cuz they use ASP) ;) how is there software though? cause netbank's drives me nuts its great! every transaction shows up as a Ck Card Memo (well when you use your VISa check card) and then it goes away after it actually posts to the account so basically it is not "real time" updates check it out. they may have a demo also the transaction for the dayt will not be shown without clicking a stupid update button and in the ledger they don't show a running balance column well i dont use my check card so i cant vouch for that but the ATM shows up as ATM (transaction list whatever this GNUe everyone should know what a ledger is) vbank shows running balances what kinda rates do they pay? cause netbank pay a lot higher than a normal bank hmmm, lemme just go to the site well their rates used to be really high until the fed lowered them obviously but ... hang on i can tell you what i am getting (i believe they have high intro rates and lower them after 6 mo too) but one thing i like (and i dont know if they still offer it but) is on the standard checking i get up to $6/mo back in ATM fees! i dont see a demo you have to keep $10,000 in there to get free bill payment? That's really pathetic. Come to Canada, Dan. =) i am getting .75% on my standard checking and 1.24% on my high yield checking... but that fluctuates with the market. i was getting 4% on the high yield a year ago where's the standard one? chillywilly: i think that is the high yield... hmmmm i cant find it... i would call them up on the phone. you will get a rep on the line instantly they don't have a demo chillywilly: http://www.banking.pcfinancial.ca/en_ca/templates/rates/mortgages_rates.jsp chillywilly: Sorry, bad url: http://www.pcfinancial.ca/ jbailey: I highly doubt that I'll be moving to Canada any time soon if ever ;) chillywilly: C'mon, you sure? Our economy isn't about to plunge deep into an early-80's style recession! LOL, US economy is fine. he's Canadian you expect him to say anything good about America ;) j/k, jeff :) virtualbank is too rich for my blood man Action: chillywilly 's account balance is about $1300 chillywilly: hmmmm, they must not be offering the packages i got. but yes you do need about $5k for an opening balance. but after than the minimum balances are reasonable s/than/that sorry i couldnt help chillywilly thought it said $500 chillywilly: I say the odd good thing about America. jbailey: come again? fixe: It's true! you guys have amazing waterslide parks. And my three favourite theology schools are in the US. chillywilly: i am saying things that were true when i signed up :) jbailey: we have a lot of amazing things here :) god bless capitalism Action: fixe fears he might start a riot fixe: Yup, like 30% of the population without healthcare, a high illiteracy rate.... Action: jbailey hides. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. wb jcater thx jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. wb jamest howdy for the record perl is the most evil language in the world not only does it have cryptic nasty syntax BUT its error reporting sucks Action: chillywilly just spent way too much time chasing a bug python would've throw an exception right away ImportError exception while a mistyped require() in perl takes me forever to find it... *sigh*] plz kill me make it stop ;) jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan (~stuq@170-215-196-63.bras01.glv.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-111-42.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left #gnuenterprise. night siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-109-59.netcologne.de) left irc: "Client Exiting" wtf do people use java on websites Action: derek is so screwed now that galeon is dysfunctional!!!!!!!!!!11 dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1d-224.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. did you move your old galeon folder out of the way? cause sometimes galeon behaves better if you do that erm, assuming you're now usong galeon-snapshot using* chillywilly: My old galeon is working again, I --purge remove'ed galeon-snapshot chillywilly: But you were probably talking to someone else. yea, derek jcater_ (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) wtg (~merlinx@ppp292.qld.padsl.internode.on.net) left irc: "You ain't got debian you ain't got shit!" wtg (merlinx@ppp456.qld.padsl.internode.on.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater Action: derek checks to see if new galeon exists chillywilly: i dislike galeon-snapshot it works, but i dont like feel as much Action: chillywilly shurgs I use knoqueror and moz for web development nope galeon still broken konq didnt have tabs last time i looked does it support java? thats what is killing me right now no flash and no java Action: derek had both working under old galeon flash at least exists for mozilla but java is gone :( jcater you around looking at what you sent i dont see any AR roche (~roche@200.9.45.19) joined #gnuenterprise. are your needs only general ledger and accounts payable? i see some "invoice" tables but they are confusing to me maybe because they are from a payables standpoint instead of a receivables? konq supports it all tabs, java, etc. flash guess i think of ap invoices to a degree as purchase orders Action: derek hears little comments so back to the browser fixing war chillywilly: kde packages are almost always busted in debian :( i find a sources.list that works for them and within a week its obsolete kde 3.1.1 is in sid no special apt lines needed and last time i upgraded it clobbered hell out of kpp (and i HAVE to have kppp) they got all the goods in now so you kde junkie now ? derek: pon always worked for me derek: not really I switch back and forth derek: but Gnome 2 pisses me off you go both ways eh ;) derek: thet keep removing things i dont like gnome 2 much derek: when are the two not the same? po and ap inv. they* ap inv is a received po, well.. in most cases.. derek: konq has tabs Action: jcater is back sigh my W2 form has apparently sprouted legs and walked off here, take some of mine.. =) and in searching for it, I find all kinds of receipts for the bookstore that brandy never gave me grrrrr phone oh, and I just noticed the rest of dereks comments.. I thought he was just making a statement out of the blue.. had only noticed the him saying "guess I think of invoices to a degree as purchase orders" what invoices? ah, I see his comments too it's ap_invoices not invoices i.e., it's invoices to be paid, or being paid in the A/P system i.e., the A/P clerk would enter a record for the utilities bill another for the Office Depot bill then once a week she does A/P checks grrr frickin support call I see what he's talking about though.. there needs to be some ar stuff as well, eh? I'm not addressing A/R at all but we'd need A/R at some point this is not you invoicing one of your clients this is your supplier invoicing you or your phone company right my needs are on the other end of the accounting office.. =) a PO system would be tied into this, though but it's not 1:1 i.e., in our office, we require a PO for any new purchases but obviously not for utilities :) or rent though that could be fun brb "Yes, BellSouth? Um, well, our CEO won't approve the PO for the phone service last month... sorry" heh we could call that table ap_payables if its causing that much confusion though every system I've seen calls it an "A/P Invoice" not that I've seen many systems, mind you that's not my specialry specialty, even "scrooby, scrooby drue!" dang specialries lol Action: chillywilly tosses jcater a scooby snack "and grue tooo" I think that would be a more appropriate term, jcater payables well, the entire system is called payables, that's my problem w/that :) but I'm ok with that if it is causing confusion there's no confusing it with the ar side what about 'bill' ? =) ap_payables is fine though that brings up a question re naming are we prefixing tables by the "module" name? i.e., ap_* I think we should gl_* ar_* I do too note, btw, if you didn't catch it in the email those tables are from something I was doing in 2000 before GNUe-SB where is this all going on at? so the naming can and probably will change :) the gnue-sb list? gnue-sb-discuss@gnu.org yes chillywilly: yea YAL ;) blah ;) Action: jcater needs a Hard Lemonade ok back jcater you answered my questions :) 1. was am i right in that you dont need AR right away (as its not there) ;) we should get havoc to use gnue-sb ;) he's frellin using spread sheets derek: we already have a custom A/R app in house 2. on invoices do you mean payables (also purchase orders) I'm frelling using spreadsheets too.. and I know he wants to use something better in Great Plains, we only use the G/L and A/P modules :) and you answered both of those i dont get the invoice classes i see its way to group invoices probably for reporting ?? Action: jcater would like a purchase order system too (which would be a separate module imho) but not sure exactly what the thought was though that's not an immediate need create table ap_invoices (INVOICE number(12), INVOICE_CLASS number(12) not null, jcater: yes separate module oh Action: jcater reaches WAY back into his brain to remember those i assume its a way to "group" invoices for reporting or reconciling of sorts I *think* I was going to use those for imported invoices so any manual invoices would probably be in same class but just trying to think of an 'example' class? you speak of importing vendors but, f.e., our auto generated paychecks might be a separate class and now invoices what format Action: derek thinks of EDI or our clearing checks would be separate class or category, if class wording is bad importing? well class is just fine I imagine it'd be a python script pulling from Oracle into gnue-sb :) class, category, type, group all fine words to use interchangeably :) btw, I *think* that was the logic I was using it might have been unneccessary btw: i guess what im driving at is this really an 'invoice' thing or should it be part of the chart of accounts Action: jcater wishes I'd commented these :) ooo that is you have several elements to a chart of accounts I seriously doubt what I was thinking of would be part of COA maybe part of the vendor table Action: chillywilly wonder where his gnue-sb cvs checkout went to... and what you are describing might be better suited as an element of the COA Action: derek isnt saying invoice class is bad, wrong or evil, just showing my confusion :) did I have a vendor_class in vendors? yes if so, that might have been what I was describing Action: jcater forgets what invoice_Class was then :-/ also you have ap_vendor this is where i 'grouping' things gets problematic for me wrt packaging Action: derek is hoping to avoid this in gnue-sb saying its not 'modules' you get the whole damn shooting match I'm fine w/that I think you need to do like the big boys do ansd define your terminology ok trout (n) -- a weapon common wielded in IRC well my point is we will have things that are "common" like an item you need it for sales orders and for inventory etc current items are own thing so its not too problematic but you get my piont I'm ok for it being one monolithic system as long as each module isn't *required* to use the others on vendors where i get torn is the manufacturing aspect i.e., I don't mind the ties to A/R being in place in A/P do we want but I doubt I would use A/R anytime soon manufacturers and vendors ? what's the difference? that was my question :) roche (~roche@200.9.45.19) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). but seriously there is a difference to me, manufacturor would be a vendor_class if im Vee2d2 i might buy from honky tonk sportswear who is a vendor i deal with but im buying nike t-shirts nike is the "manufacturer" this is important to me cause i can get nike t-shirts form well, in this case, I would say that's not a vendor but some property of the items module joe momma sportswear too to me its the same item well, I think most businesses will do business with one or the other and generally not both. And, in my case as I stated prior, I might have the option to go direct to the mill (the mfg) but if I do, I treat them no different than a vendor. Action: derek and Vee2d2 discussed this briefly and i dont want to make too much out of it well, if you guys have discussed it, go with that I have no similar needs at NCS ok we will keep manufacturer purely as an "item" thing then so that is above my head if you buy direct from mfg you create a vendor record for them :") I think the majority of mfgs have a distribution network which would be the vendors businesses deal with. Action: derek notes its not often jcater acquieses with thats more than i need to deal with do what you want :) ok derek: what you described is what I would expect to see but I don't deal w/that kind of business :) jcater: you list support fiscal years not force calendar years im assuming what you mean by this is that you want to be able to "close" a year our fiscal year is July - June as well as set the "periods" yeah ok so july would be period 01 june period 12 yes Action: derek has same fiscal year at county so i even catch myself thinking of months as period years do you have need (and i assume yes) to "close" each period well i.e. does your accounting staff wish to do a "close" at each month end "closing" isn't something I deal alot with, so that's fuzzy I do know once they close a monht, nothing else can be posted to it so they do that much ok then they need that ability :) as pretty much that is what closing is :) as to what else "closing" involves, I hate to admit I'm a little dense ok Action: jcater assumed there was more to it than that :) there is a little more than that, but in general that is it dude the major reason we are changing packagtes right now is great plains (at least our version) won't let you work on a new year until the old year is closed and it takes a month or 6 weeks for our CPA to close out our fiscal year so that really screws up payables for them as they have to do manual checks for a month and enter them come february that's just bad design that is SCREWED btw we didnt close FY02 at work (which ended Jun 30 2002) until Feb 02, 2003 I hate to ask this here wow, that is lame but just in case I don't make GNUe-SB in time anyone know of any good accounting packages for a smaller company Action: jcater won't even expect "free" ones i would look at aria but I want to avoid the newer Great Plains at all costs I heard great plains was decent ;) or even sql-ledger those just aren't featured enough short of that there is accpac or something that runs on linux Action: jcater googles for accpac Action: jcater really does want a *nix-based system which are all so much more expensive than the win32 systems :( Action: Vee2d2 is checking his bookmarks http://www.linuxcanada.com/quasar.html The Quasar Accounting package is sold for $29.00 per concurrent user. Y damn i think you can get a trial download for free to play uses firebird/sybase i have heard decent things about it Action: derek suspects this will kill your interest in gnue-sb fairly quickly :) when for a few hundred bucks you can bail ;) Vee2d2: you have to pretend i didnt post that link I had accpac, netledger, appgen, and icode bm'd under proprietary systems Action: jcater wants something I can get our data into derek: dont fret that I may flee the scene, I feel vested in seeing this through. so a sybase-based one would work btw, I do too even if I go w/something else w/NCS jcater: i know we ownz joo after all, I have my own businesses too :) right. =) IsoosI (dahoose@port-210-54-58-173.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: im realistic in thinking that june is awful close, likely too close to make not if we get cookin psu: note that this part of the conversation is not for the KC :) anyone know how to make php do a redirect? or http for that matter derek: #!/usr/bin/python ? derek: using html's it must be done prior to anything being sent out either way if you send me a sample php or html page that makes old non-gnu.org site go to new gnu.org site for gnue-sb i will commit it :) I think would be the correct way to do it using the meta tag the 0 I think is a timer iirc.. that goes in between ? yes Action: Vee2d2 sees growing support for ar/ap/gl implementation ymmy that works with luck old non-gnu.org site should refresh properly after nightly update jcater: you know how to monkey with gnue.org website? I had it bookmarked for a while as its very clear we now need gnue-sb site on the gnue.org site at least 5 people this week have commented that they couldnt find it suprisingly two of them were on the gnue-sb mailing list hmm Action: derek is assuming google is pointing people to the gnue-sb list :) Remosi: funny joke er jbailey style there's no confusing it with the ar side what about 'bill' ? =) Action: derek reviews cat of schema.sql from acclite CREATE TABLE "apbill" ( derek: you need to toggle one of them options in Xchat->Settings->IRC Input/Output in regards to nick completion. =) Remosi (dahoose@port-210-54-58-8.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) poor Remosi derek: do you ever read anything when someoen types it? um yes my memory is just good was reading the schema and remembered he made funny joke about calling it a bil l nevermind i think it flew over everyones head wha? Action: Vee2d2 ducks *quack* Action: chillywilly beats derek with a "gnue teething ring" ;) now who's got the memory! :) Action: derek is looking at acclite schema's i think they encompass about everything you had only have additional information curious to see what arias has done (best i can tell they didnt 'add stuff') just fixed bugs bah, I need to do some more work... time to cvsup that bi..... and compare foot notes are you looking at these other projects for a frame of reference, or with intent of maintaining some sort of interoperability (say that 3 times real fast)? Vee2d2: possibly either ;) just curious crack heads originally the idea was to use NOLA's structures I recall seeing that note submit the changes back to them and let people use the php interface if they so desired nola was a MESS layout wise in cvs so jcater refactored it so it was logical and converted it to postgres nola is PHP on steroids that is acclite arias seems to have done same thing only made a project out of it so i would be willing to see how much its butchered if at all if its about same thing i would look at it for frame of reference if we had to change a ton probably not worth trying to be compatiable I dont appear to be tracking acclite at all.. if we could get by moderately well without changing things it would be worth making compatiable i suspect ap/ar/gl wise we could heh.. ~jcater is the top hit from google for what? but the way they did other things was either more amateur or print shop specific Vee2d2: for you it would actually probalby work as print shop work is pretty similar to embrodery stuff (best i can tell) chillywilly: nolais PHP on exlax wrt: bidding nad such acclite.. the only hits appear to be gnue related.. is that what you coined your efforts there with nola untangling, jcater? yes I see it was private cvs until sorted out i called noguska and talked to their developers about merging the changes back into nola they basically were killing the product so we were going to keep it alive under acclite name arias.sf.net had same plan (though not at that time) Action: derek is going to check out their cvs now Action: derek runs screaming really really really really really really really loudly they kept that horrible nola structure what was so horrible about it? other than it was a big ass file, IIRC um virutally hunderds of php files all in same directory oh that ;) gackkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk they still include the Microsoft True Type Fonts gack gack all the files are executable i smell more windows develoeprs here yuck they are steeeeeenkie sigh will have to contact these guys why? tell them to get those damn fonts out of there before they hurt themselves (for real) ah why bother head spinning now wondering where to go next gack! I just realized I haven't eaten yet hehe Action: chillywilly did that too but didn't last as long Action: chillywilly had some BBQ ribs...mmmm... Action: derek ate too much taquitos are giving me heart burn Vee2d2: ok im ready to work but for once i dont know where to start ;) i think options are 1. enhance roadmap (maybe include some of jcater's stuff for accounting) 2. finish what is necessary for 0.1.x gnue-sb release 3. compare schemas on arias, jcater stuff and acclite whats your vote? Action: derek is kind of leaning towards #2 sorry.. was washing dishes.. Action: jcater votes on #3 :) 2 4. barf up the 6inch squared brownie i ate 30 minutes ago after eating like 20 taquitos ack well.. I dont think we lack much in finishing the item mgmt.. I'm all for jumping ahead (as far as how my needs are concerned) into getting accounting stuff in place 5. eat pint of dreyer's dreamery grandma's cookie dough ice cream to soothe the heart burn heh :) drink soem milk some yuck Action: derek doesnt care for milk yuck? i dont like liquids that are hot or ones that are 'thick' no milk shakes then? milk shake is so thick its not a liquid if it gets to point where can actually suck it through a straw im not interested Action: derek prefers frosty's ;) not the same thing derek: youi have just confirmed what I have known all along you are weird With the discussion earlier about monolithic vs modular.. we're going monolithic right? Action: jcater has seen milk that solidified enough to suck thru a straw but I doubt you'd want that semi-monolithic? i would like to see modular BUT i think it raises so many issues its better to be happy with monolithic :) and if we can modularize great I keep looking at the contact stuff Vee2d2: you have spare cpu cycles? yes you appear to know html (muhahahaha) any chance you could make a page for each "module" like item/product management client management general ledger accounts payable accounts receivable vendor management or such Action: derek is thinking would be nice to start something similar to what jcater has done for the website basically take and outline via bullet points the "features" needed for a module and then list its tables with a small description of what the table is (not the actual table scripts though) sure Action: derek is debating if this should be a page each or just one big page Action: derek is just thinking already im forgetting more of what we talk about than i remember sos probably good idea to start having a place to document it :) wiki!!!! *snicker* Action: jcater ducks Action: derek reaches for a gnue teething ring (jumbo size) actually this is one place where a wiki wouldnt be horrid but im certainly not 'advocating' it and would rather avoid it um... both you guys have open office (specifically calc) installed? and have the gig of memory it takes to use it? ;) yes, but I tend to use gnumeric for my spreadsheet needs ditto --- Wed Mar 26 2003