wiki wiki! come on ppl set it up chillywilly derek: do you have some way of marking contacts as imported, or something like that i.e., I foresee some of my contacts being created by other programs and wouldn't want those records editable in gnue-sb that may not fit in with your mental model though :) Action: jcater is still hungry Vee2d2: no one trusts me to have access to their servers except for havoc :) mmmm smack ramen oddly it appears that the tables for aria and acclite(nola) are different nectar of the gods btw: i use gnumeric most of the time too, but use excel at work a LOT (and recently stopped and switched to open office) so now im using it at home a lot too hmm what apps i figured it would go the OTHER way for contacts basically would push gnue-sb contacts to ldap directory Action: jcater reminds derek I'm tying this into custom system so I'd like to push sales reps into gnue-sb as i see client management as where you would edit the contacts and other applications would basically be using them as read only but it's not a biggie though I imagine I won't be alone ramen noodles? jcater: in that case i suggest 'roles' that is dont give users ability to 'edit' contacts i suppose could make a field on there for imported ramen noodles derek: that's what I was thinking.. an imported field I don't see how roles would fit in Action: chillywilly prefers to eat cereal this late at night well in integration i have worked on I dunno why you choose one system that is if you say contacts are edited in application X they are edited in application X if they are in app Y they are app Y some cocoa kripsies or hiney bunches of oats but there are sooo many types of contacts i.e., you'd have the A/P vendors honey* you wouldnt do application X imports to Y and you edit Y so by making Y be readonly Action: jcater usually doesn't see it that straight forward and constantly feeding X into it roles solves the problem jcater: thats cause you have bad business rules ;) and ask for pain that's easy to say but yes roles doesnt solve your problem without knowing needs or existing systems you don't throw away working systems for something new the import/readonly flag would Action: derek will STRONGLY discourage people from using unless they realize we will not support their data pain i.e. my fear is that people blame the 'system' for problems that are data integrity problems caused by poorly written interfaces ;) i agree 100% dont throw away working systems but any time you are letting more than one system 'update' the data you are talking about fairly complex interfaces that need some babysitting well, I would think that's a given best i can tell the people that think mysql is a power database are not the people i want to support doing such integration ;) sorry for slamming anyone that likes mysql ;) no, you're not we know better :) mysql is ideal for web apps imho it's not an enterprise database though and some ppl prefer to handle things more in the app layer and wants more of a data store which mysql serves well as yip Action: jcater agrees w/the ideal for webapps but not for handling things in the app layer as before long, the person has to start to deal w/transaction logic and that's not something that an average programmer can just whip up web apps don't really need transaction why do they have to? chillywilly: that's why I said yeah to the web apps you open the connection do your thing close it but not for regular apps regardless of where the logic is stored it's all pretty static well, unless it's a read-only type store if you have your own transaction mechanism you can change it to use various methods...you do gain more flexibility but you have to maintain more code now it's a tradeoff but a transaction mechanism is a huge investment *shrug* Vee2d2: back to work! :) heh Action: jcater should sleep but, man am I wired HEH wish I could say the same wifee just got home hi wifee seriously mysql is pretty much a readonly database (imho) its start of 'table level' locking was proof of that Action: derek understands they are getting better but its a 'mentality thing' read only, or logging for all practical purpose, that's all I'd consider it for ok have arias, acclite, jcater compared how does jcater compare to arias? jcater: by read only i mean light inserts and minimal updates very much like slashdot usage um jcater is much lighter than arias (bet jcater dont hear that one often) ;) but arias is missing some stuff like balance information and any sense of 'heirarchy' in structures Action: derek suspects windows programmers never get their apps to point where the users request reports ;) Action: derek is kidding of course ;) im going to attempt to throw gnue-sb structures on the fire you guys can answer a php question for a friend? of mine Action: chillywilly hasn't php'd in eons as well as stuff Vee2d2 sent to list how about you derek ? what is the question one sec lemme drag it outta him /msg jcater response same as me "use python" hahahaha ooops ;) derek: he just asked me if you're the derek form #PHPfreaks um nope thats not me right I thought he was talking about an irc channel here... nm know anything about templates? does s/he have a specific question? trying to get to the bottom of it seems pretty basic template usage though so I dunno wtf his deal is jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "period.close()" heh he's just tired and doesn't know wtf he is doing Action: Vee2d2 makes adjustments to period.open() guess he figured it out ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) doh he left piss and i about had comparsion done Vee2d2: you still around slightly or should i wander off to bed I'm pondering it myself have comparison of arias, acclite, jcater, mike v and gnue-sb up was going to add louis' stuff as a comparision as well is louis the guy from bombardier? Action: Vee2d2 cartwheels off to bed yeah damn i just finished too Action: derek will post to the net is it a spreadsheet ? Action: Vee2d2 summersaults back in the direction of bed reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. .sxc spreadsheet yes psu (psu@public1-wear2-3-cust49.midd.broadband.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: psu wishes to register a complaint I note that there was next to no KC-able discussion from Thu to Mon But there are at least 3 threads for yesterday and 1 already today which is fine, by the "KC-week" runs from Thu to Wed Can I request that people only say interesting things early on in the week to give me & Arturas more time to get the summaries done ;-) roflmao HAH psu: you are funny man Of course, for this to work, you need to know what I consider "interesting" psu: I never say anything worth recording in the KCs so I feel that I am doing my part ;) which probably involves getting further into my thought processes than you really want to go chillywilly: I rely on you for the occasional pithy one-liner to finish a thread off ;-) lol psu can you put a link somehow to gnue-sb from gnue people keep asking hmm there is one somewhere, just not very prominent let me look http://www.gnuenterprise.org/community/other.html but that's well hidden Do we need a "Looking for gnue-sb? Click here, bozo" link on front page as well? prolly i've got a church meeting tonight, but will add it later in he week http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs//software/gnue/project/what.src?cvsroot=www.gnu.org ok is the source file anyway, work time psu (psu@public1-wear2-3-cust49.midd.broadband.ntl.com) left #gnuenterprise. .src? Action: derek runs to bed Action: derek is away: sleep btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: chillywilly -> cwzzzZZZ InsanitY (insanity@co58147-a.olden1.ov.home.nl) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. Remosi (dahoose@port-210-54-58-247.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. IsoosI (dahoose@port-210-54-58-173.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting" ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Client Quit ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek: poke me whenever you have a minute or two dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1d-224.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." jamest (~jamest@hilbert.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. mornin jamest hi Action: derek pokes Vee2d2 never you mind got it all squared away? sorta not really. I'm doing 'the thing'.. and well.. I'm still confused by this: Vendor mgmt, Client mgmt, Contact mgmt. Are these 3 distinct things? hmmm yes no and maybe ;) vendor management i think is probably separate and so is client management let me perhaps explain my frame of mind vendor management manages a bunch of stuff about the vendor (a small portion of which is the contacts you talk to at the vendor) client management manages stuff about your customers in a pos environment it probably wouldnt be much if any, but in other businesses like software consulting it could be quite extensive contact management is that portion that manages the actual "contacts" Action: derek hasnt thought it out long and hard but i suspect it could go one of two ways contact manager is the large "container" in which anything with "contacts" belongs this way contact info for anything is available in single location I'm good with that, I expect we will provide some linkage in the contact mgmt to say this contact is with that vendor or some such? however i dont think people always think of "contact" when they have say a vendor problem the other way to approach is vendor, client, company etc are all separate modules and imbedded they have contact management i.e. almost like a pop up form to manage contacts or such Action: derek suspects we could do both ways (and thats how i envisioned) that you could do vendor management and "pop" a contact screen that has just that vendors contacts right, well that's what I thought we were going to do, use contact mgr as a large container and add a 'relationship' field or something to define the contact as a 'Client' or 'Vendor' or 'Pizza Guy' or whatever.. or you could open the contact manager that has ALL your contacts regardless of source and then you could pop more information about their "parent" Action: derek hopes that made the question more clear and not more muddy btw: this is exactly stuff i hope we can start documenting :) I like the rolodex approach to having everything there, but I agree there needs to be extensive additional information which is unique to whatever the relation, vendor, client, etc. so are you saying we do both? keep all the contact information in 'contacts' and the extensive additional stuff in 'vendors', 'clients', etc..? potentially extensive I guess I should say. The kind of data I would actually need is pretty similar between vendor and client relations yes the tables are currently set to support it as well say you have vendor vendor id tax id foo foobar foofoobar then you have a vendor_contact id vendorid contactid so anywhere you have "contacts" they go in the contact table regardless of what type of contact they are i guess i think of contact management as "people management" ok, but in reverse if you're going through the data in the contact table there is or will be a way to identify the contact is a vendor, or client, etc? opposed to entity management right dsmith (~dsmith@borg.altus.cc) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2: im not sure the structures are there for it yet but yes we should make it so its identifiable and they should be able to belong to more more than one "type" yea I s'pose so. i.e. your mfg is a vendor scenario a contact for that would be both a vendor and a mfg or employee as a client/customer jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. frelling cable company good morning to you too :) I'm suprised this connection didnt drop cable was out for a good 10-15 mins.. how doo, jcater. bbl reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "People will believe your argument much better if you tell them that Benjamin Franklin said it" Action: jcater wanders if Ben Franklin said that? i thought you just wandered about the vending machines? man, i would have swore I would have gotten thwaped for that Action: jcater thwaps jamest hi all howdy Action: esv I saw some discussion about the contact manager section in the logs. oops Action: esv working on the intro to python section Nick change: cwzzzZZZ -> chillywilly esv: cool did we get the copyright disclaimer from you for work on gnue? Action: jamest is blanking no Action: esv guesses it is somewhere he can download it just dont expect a superb writing, lets say fair or poor whatcha workin' on esv? writing the python intro, so I remember it. just a quick question on OpenO oh cool for the examples Im using the "Example Code" paraghrap selection, but it breaks the vertical line on the left, I wonder why it does not do the same for the previous examples. what are you writing it in? docbook? OOo? jamest: does the gnue-sb team need one too? I sent the spanish translation messages. chilly: OO k is there a case like command in python? if... switch/case is just a syntactic convenience perl doesn't have it either ;) k paging revDeke [11:03] Last message repeated 1 time(s). any of you have a favorite salary advisor? dilbert wife reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. yeah wife she advises me all the time mine isn't enough (salary, that is) (don't go reading into that any other way :) sure, whatever you say ;) Action: chillywilly thwaps jcater before he can thwap him Vee2d2: What's does a salary advisor do? he just harasses you about how you should be making more money ;) give you a salary range for job title in an area and my wife is too brutal to be useful in her advice. salary.com Vee: would you define brutal, pls? 2 definitions found From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]: Brutal \Bru"tal\, a. [Cf. F. brutal. See {Brute}, a.] 1. Of or pertaining to a brute; as, brutal nature. ``Above the rest of brutal kind.'' --Milton. 2. Like a brute; savage; cruel; inhuman; brutish; unfeeling; merciless; gross; as, brutal manners. ``Brutal intemperance.'' --Macaulay. From WordNet (r) 1.7 [wn]: brutal adj 1: (of weapons or instruments) causing suffering and pain; "brutal instruments of torture"; "cruel weapons of war" [syn: {cruel}] 2: (of persons or their actions) able or disposed to inflict pain or suffering; "a barbarous crime"; "brutal beatings"; "cruel tortures"; "Stalin's roughshod treatment of the kulaks"; "a savage slap"; "vicious kicks" [syn: {barbarous}, {cruel}, {fell}, {roughshod}, {savage}, {vicious}] 3: (of circumstances; especially weather) causing suffering; salary.com. Intresting. "brutal weather"; "northern winters can be cruel"; "a cruel world"; "a harsh climate; "a rigorous climate"; "unkind winters" [syn: {cruel}, {harsh}, {rigorous}, {unkind}] Action: chillywilly runs off I'm looking for work, btw. thanks ;) Action: dsmith trips chillywilly with a 50 lb websters ouch I probably deserved that Action: chillywilly waits to be kicked from the channel ;) dsmith: I forget, are you the one with ambitions of being a owner-operator? in retirement as I recall Vee2d2: Nope. not me. maybe it was havoc in retirement? havoc owns Infinite Probability Networks, Inc. right now... chillywilly: iirc he was saying he would like to be an owner-operator in retirement.. drive around the country, etc.. hmmm, yea that sound like him ;) sounds revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. some one rang? esv send email to www-support@gnuenterprise.org with subject: ESV Copyright Assignment Request I did, but am having hardware issues now :( and i will get the paperwork started for you on copyright assignment jcater: anything pressing? no Action: revDeke only has a few to stick around, i can come back in about an hour and a half if that works revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left #gnuenterprise. OO 1.1 beta is out and import/export docbook s/and/and it and it has? ;) and it can? can Support for exporting as a flat XML file. Action: jcater is downloading now cool of course I don't see anything about _loading_ said flat file :) hopefully the flat xml works in this beta didn't work in 643 Action: chillywilly goes to get it too ooooo command line tool s cool http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/1.1beta/features.html Action: jcater thinks it still requires X11 head I remember looking at that a month or so ago on their dev site X11 head? heh wtf you can't run it headless i.e., DISPLAY must be set and valid oh I was thinking X11 HEAD like CVS version of X11 XFree86 or whatever it's a big mother :P Hmm. Says it has a new db type of MySQL. Wonder if it still uses jdbc to talk to databases. heh, the install program can't connect to my X server hmmm... anyone get that bugger to install? seems I can't run any X programs as root... blah crap I don't remember how to fix that chillywilly: xhost +localhost chillywilly: Naw, just do xhost + , and tell me your ip. ;^) no I figured it out +localhost wouldn't work though only + Action: chillywilly shurgs ah crap I don't have enough space for OOo ;P chilly: then use xhost + 127.0.0.1 Action: chillywilly install OOo into a different partition esv will try that afterward Action: esv still downloading OO 1.1 and getting my IP si easy fewl /whois chillywilly Action: chillywilly waits for the break in ;) wtg (merlinx@ppp456.qld.padsl.internode.on.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) erm, actually I'm behind NAT chillywilly: It was just an attempt at humor. and I don't have X ports open to the world :) I know Action: chillywilly was also joking OOo is a pig ;) But that reminds me. I was able to start X progs as root until just a little while ago, and my Boss (on his machine) couldn't. But now it's the other way around. We have identical machines, running sid. me too they changed soem config in sid I think prolly to be more "secure" or some goofy crap I could never figure out how the machines were different. all I wanna know is where to set it at...I don't recall that either Action: chillywilly doesn't want to have to type xhost chillywilly: Well, you could put xhost + in sour ~/.xsession script. but I supposed I don't do a lot of gui things as root anyway right Stoke_ (~stoker@ppp92.tc-1.roc-pt.ny.localnet.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Stoke (~stoker@ppp285.tc-2.roc-pt.ny.localnet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: esv learns so SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW now. ? chillywilly: ssh -X root@localhost :) no Action: chillywilly does an xhost - right quick ;P my OOo fonts are butt ugly chillywilly: Mine are pretty. aa and everything. you install anything special? msttcorefonts?