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<btami> morning
<reinhard> good morning btami
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<SachaS> hi reinhard. how is summer. in australia it is getting colder.
<reinhard_> temperatures _start_ to get acceptable here
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<SachaS_> anyone from forms here?
Nick change: SachaS_ -> SachaS
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<chillywilly> dale
<chillywilly> you're a nobody?
<chillywilly> [11:00] --> dsmith (nobody@borg.altus.cc) has joined #gnuenterprise
<chillywilly> ;P
<jbailey> Better than revDeke who's frequently a web server. =)
<dsmith> chillywilly: Yep, nobody
Action: jbailey is away: mtg.
<dsmith> chillywilly: I've got a FreeBSD firewall here at work with a identd that always returns "nobody"
<dsmith> chillywilly: My fw at home is spitting out random usernames.
<chillywilly> don't you know BSD is dead?
<jcater> yeah, it caught a virus (GPL)
<jcater> and died
Action: jcater cracks jcater up
<chillywilly> :)
<dsmith> Hmm.
<dsmith> I prefer Debian on my desktop systems, but I prefer bsd for firewalls.  I just can't get a handle on iptables like I can pf.
<chillywilly> bah
<jcater> pf rocks
<jcater> that's what I use for my primary firewall here at work too
<jcater> though I use openbsd
<dsmith> jcater: At the time I was setting it up, I only had fbsd cd's  
<dsmith> chillywilly: I like Debian so much, I've got the DEBIAN licence plates for ohio.
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> iptabled rules you fools ;)
<chillywilly> iptables
<dsmith> I'm running djbdns at home too.  Very wierd. But clean.
<dsmith> jcater: Ya, I've got OpenBSD at home.
<chillywilly> bah
Action: chillywilly sends out the ice weasels after djb
<dsmith> As far as I know, no one has ever claimed the $500 exploit prize.
<chillywilly> sure, djb knows what he is doing, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a big fat jerk
<dsmith> chillywilly: True
<chillywilly> what license is djbdns under?
<chillywilly> man I need foooood
<chillywilly> bbiab
<dsmith> chillywilly: No license.  It's copyright.  And he lets you copy the source so you cna compile it on your box.
<dsmith> But you can't distribute it or distrubute binaries.
<chillywilly> fuck that
<chillywilly> there's another reason not to use it ;)
<chillywilly> so no apt-get install djbdns
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> is bind9 really that bad?
<chillywilly> I think it does the job
<chillywilly> more than adequately
<dsmith> chillywilly: I was wary at first, but the more I use it, the more I like it.  Kinda like Python.
<chillywilly> but it's non-free
<dsmith> chillywilly: apt-get install djbdns-installer
<chillywilly> boooo
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<chillywilly> someoff
<someon> chillywilly:  cuuute...
<chillywilly> someon: yes I am
<chillywilly> thanks
<chillywilly> ;P
<someon> derek:  You asked for a screenshot of something the other day....  still want it?
<jcater> I imagine he's not here
<jcater> that's his home login
<someon> ahh....
<someon> jcater:  thanks for the info.
Action: someon contemplates mailling it to own home, but won't be on channel for the weekend....
<jcater> screenshot of what?
<someon> jcater: A non-free software that I'd like to see GNUe be comparable to
<jcater> ah
<someon> jcater: it's extensible, App-Server centric...
<someon> jcater:  Have you heard of / used BMC/Remedy?
<jcater> heard of Remedy
<jcater> but don't remember anything about it
<jcater> iirc it was similar to our plans for integrator
<jcater> (though obviously it's very far along :)
<someon> Nods....  I'd say more like Navigator, on an App-Server basis....  where all your forms are on the App-Server, and the form definition / logic is sent to the client on an "As-Needed" & "As-Updated" basis
<jcater> ah, then this is different than what I was thinking
<someon> It has a complete C API out there, if one goes digging...  but I don't know if that would be useful or not.... or if it would get GNUe in "trouble"
<jcater> we'd prefer to keep our distance from anything questionable like that
<jcater> last thing we need to do is get our developers in a lawsuit
<someon> Nods...   figured as much..  why I didn't suggest it :)
<someon> You want the Screen Cap?
<someon> Doesn't really show much...  It's a returned query
<jcater> sure
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<someon> jcater: mail @gnuenterprise.org  From Hotmail.
<jcater> ?
<jcater> you could send to info@gnue.org if you're wanting to email something
<jcater> derek and I'd both get that
<someon> D'oh!
<jcater> oh
<jcater> you already mailed it
<jcater> that's cool
<jcater> I got it
<someon> Does it make *ANY* sense?
<jcater> I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at
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<deke> hey batman
<deke> any german speakers here?
<chillywilly> deke?
<chillywilly> derek?
<deke> yes
<deke> dood
<deke> there are german reports abound
<deke> that SAP-DB and MySQL will merge
<chillywilly> yeek
<deke> or at a minimum co develop a new free software database
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: deke can't read german
<jcater> m?glicherweise
<deke> so its hard to understand what they mean
<deke> i.e. new product
<deke> merger
<deke> upgrade path
<deke> etc
<deke> all the people on teh SAP-DB list are freaking
<deke> as much like us they think MySQL is a toy
<deke> and are scared crapless that their community will be flooded with amateur hacks
<jcater> there's a translation on the SAP-DB list
<jcater> have you read it?
<deke> no
<reinhard> möglicherweise == maybe
<deke> i deleted all my sap email :(
<deke> and after i hit 'submit' i saw header
<jcater> reinhard: are you impressed :)
<deke> adn was like crap and could only skim like 10 mails out of my 2000+ deleted files folder
<jcater> deke: I can reforward that email if you wanna
<deke> if you could it woudl be great
Action: deke is torn
<deke> sap-db is good stuff but poorly marketed
<jcater> gone
<deke> getting mysql users that shouldnt be using mysql in the first place to use it is a good thing
<deke> adding some usability to administration would be a good thing
<deke> but having to argue with mysql fanatics is a bad thing 
<deke> about why they suck :)
<jcater> dude
<jcater> the MySQL lead developers have proved time and time again
<jcater> how little they understand ACID principles
<jcater> I seriously doubt this is true
<chillywilly> what's ACID stand for again?
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> Atomicity
<jcater> Consistency
<jcater> Isolation
<jcater> Durability
<reinhard> as we speak of it
<reinhard> Common's DBDriver's resultsets are isolated from other transactions happening after the resultset was created
<reinhard> right?
<deke> gack
<deke> this sucks
<chillywilly> what does?
<deke> primary development of new said database will be from mysql (not sap)
<deke> sap will merely be a "support" piece
<deke> is what im reading from the translation
<chillywilly> mysql4 has transactions now I think
<deke> "The primary responsibility of the development lies at MySQL"
<chillywilly> and sub-selects
<deke> It appears sap-db will die
<deke> as it will become mysql
<jcater> for some reason, I doubt that
<deke> im not sure here if what they will be doing is paying mysql team to put a pretty face on sap-db
<jcater> now, it's possible that SAP will embrace this new product
<deke> and call it mysql
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<jcater> but just look at firebird
<deke> to get larger adoption 
<jcater> I seriously doubt sap-db will just go away
<jcater> though now would be a good time to start mirroring cvs :)
<deke> i dont understand this move
<reinhard> jcater: you read my question above?
<jcater> reinhard: /me is thinking
<deke> the translators summary is good
<deke> SAP-DB had a nice NAME
<chillywilly> why not ask in #sapdb?
<deke> that lends credibility to peole not big in free software
<jcater> oooo
<jcater> if SAP-DB has to be forked
<jcater> I vote we call it
<jcater> Dolt-DB
<chillywilly> gnuedb?
<chillywilly> :P
<deke> grrr
<deke> #sapdb is blocked for me with this client
<chillywilly> why?
<deke> not sure i thought i could get to it before
<chillywilly> how cna it be blocked?
<deke> long story
<chillywilly> whatever, you always have issue w/ everything don't you? ;)
<chillywilly> the curse of deke the geek
<chillywilly> my connection blows today
<deke> must run
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Action: chillywilly smacks Vee2d2 around with a frozen trout
Action: jcater thwaps chillywilly with a live, flopping trout
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> I was only doing that to see if he was watching the channel
Action: chillywilly drop kicks jcater right in the donut hole
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> if anyone's interested, 
<jcater> designer's UI has been cleaned up a tad
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/screenshots/designer-docks3.png
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<SachaZzzz> wow Designer looks better and better
Nick change: SachaZzzz -> SachaS
<chillywilly> fuck, my dcl is hosed
<chillywilly> hmmm, seems postgresql was updated for testing....
<chillywilly> it's now 7.3.2r1
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> anyone have experience w/ upgrading from 7.2 to 7.3?
<chillywilly> erm, it's gotta be an authentication thing
<derek> is it just me or is anyone else lost with the discussion on the mailing list
<derek> person a: how do i install the tables to use GNU Enterprise in my business?
<derek> reinhard: if you are using appserver you have to use postgres
<derek> jan: if you are using appserver you have to use postgres
<derek> person a: i am using postgres now and it creates tables how do i do invoicing, item management and such
Action: derek wonders if there is some part of the conversation i missed
<derek> jcater: yummy clean up
<jcater> chillywilly: I've yet to have the .debs cleanly upgrade postgres
<chillywilly> well I didn't realize it was doing it
<derek> they always work for me
<jcater> so I have no words of wisdom
<derek> that would explain why they break for everyone else
<chillywilly> I can su to postgres and connect to my dcl db
<chillywilly> but I need to be able to connect as my dcl user
<derek> i even one time had it say it failed
<jcater> the /etc/pg_hbda.conf migth have changed formats
<derek> but everything was fine
<jcater> I think I remember something about authentication rules changing
<chillywilly> keeps prompting for a passwd
<jcater> but it's been a while
<chillywilly> yes they added a new field
<chillywilly> I think they added the database
<derek> btw: jcater you see a bug report anywhere on not being able to login to GNU Enterprise with trust auth on postgres
<derek> er login with not to
<derek> someone was complaining about it
<jcater> I haven't gnue'd in so long, I don't recall
<chillywilly> # TYPE  DATABASE    USER        IP-ADDRESS       IP-MASK          METHOD
<chillywilly> local   all         all                                           trust
<chillywilly> host    all         all         192.168.0.0      255.255.0.0      trust
<chillywilly> host    all         all         127.0.0.1        255.255.255.255  trust
<chillywilly> host    all         all         0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0          reject
<chillywilly> that's what I have
<derek> i tried a few different drivers and such and think it failed (in an odd way) for me
<derek> basically it was giving 'errors' that 'Unable to connect'
<derek> BUT
<derek> it really would connect
<jcater> chillywilly: that matches mine exactly
<jcater> :-/
<chillywilly> blah
<jcater> wait
<jcater> no
Action: chillywilly looks in his dcl config
<jcater>  255.255.255.255
<jcater> is that valid?
<jcater> mine is 255.255.0.0
<chillywilly> ah I set a passwd for that dcl user
<derek> try 255.255.255.0
<chillywilly> sure, it's a more lax mask
<chillywilly> weird
<chillywilly> I logged in w/ psql as the dcl user using my dcl user pass
<derek> you have tcp/ip enabled?
<derek> try
<chillywilly> oh maybe dcl can't handle 7.3.x
<derek> psql -U dcl dbname
<derek> then try
<chillywilly> Error executing query!
<chillywilly> SELECT a.ticketid,a.summary FROM tickets a, priorities b, severities c, statuses d WHERE a.responsible=3 AND a.priority=b.id AND a.type=c.id AND a.status=d.id AND d.dcl_status_type != 2 ORDER BY b.weight,c.weight,a.ticketid
<chillywilly> ERROR: LIMIT #,# syntax not supported. Use separate LIMIT and OFFSET clauses.
<chillywilly> dude I can connect already
<derek> then what was your bitch?
<chillywilly> that's not an auth thing anyway :(
<chillywilly> my dcl is broke as a mofo
<derek> no you need to upgrade
<derek> stinky pooh
<chillywilly> does dcl handle postgres 7.3.2r1?
<derek> you cant do
<derek> LIMIT 10,10
<derek> you ahve to like
<chillywilly> it doesn't like the LIMIT syntax in the sql dcl uses
<derek> LIMIT 10 AND OFFSET 10
<derek> this has been FIXED
<chillywilly> right
<derek> upgrade your dcl
<chillywilly> ok
<derek> and quit whinning
<chillywilly> but is the package in?
<chillywilly> shutup
Action: derek notes he is doing exactly what chillywilly does to people
<derek> you on testing or unstable?
<chillywilly> I don't think so
<chillywilly> it was as irc thing that I was harassing you about
<derek> if unstable i will bug jeff to get the dcl packages upgraded to 0.9.3 goodness
<chillywilly> in fact I go out of my way to try and help anyone here
<jcater> if anyone sees btami tonight, ask him what he thinks of a 0.5.1 release
<jcater> he's added lots of Win32 goodness to forms
<jcater> I have several fixes in designer I need to get out the door
<jcater> so if he's ready next week, I might want to do a point release
<derek> whats the point (pun completely intended)
<derek> ;)
Action: jcater thwaps derek
Action: chillywilly smacks derek around soem
<chillywilly> some
Action: jcater thwaps wx around while we're at it
Action: chillywilly drops a truck load of frozen trouten on derek
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> We're Sorry.
<chillywilly> The SourceForge.net Website is currently down for maintenance.
<chillywilly> We will be back shortly
<chillywilly> derek: where can I get a freakin 0.9.3 tarball?
<chillywilly> sf.net is being a bitch
<derek> isnt that stuff mirrored on gnue.org?
<derek> if not we really need it to be
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> Status
<chillywilly> Latest release available via the official DCL website. 
<chillywilly> boo
Action: jcater thwaps wx around while we're at it
<jcater> (doh...wrong window)
<chillywilly> you already said that here
<chillywilly> goofy
<jcater> I know... up arrow + enter
<chillywilly> derek: btw, you're not my friend anymore
<chillywilly> derek: I'm going home
<derek> ok
<chillywilly> :'(
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> better go home I guess
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<havoc> chillywilly: hey
<havoc> you still alive?
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--- Sat May 24 2003