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<SachaS> hallo reinhard ;)
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<Arturas> Hello
<btami> hello Arturas
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<btami> hi all
<btami> please test this, if you have time
<btami> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~btami/UNOFFICIAL-Native-Win32-Forms-2003-05-27.exe
<btami> non US users don't forget to set the correct textEncoding in gnue.conf, if
<btami> that differs from iso8859-1 and translations exist for your locale
<btami> thanks
Action: btami is away: lunch
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<ToyMan> morning all
Action: btami is back (gone 01:51:39)
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<lxf> ToyMan, morning. Night, from indo
<botsie> hi all
<botsie> just been trying out the forms tutorial
<botsie> using forms 0.5.0 with firebird 1.5 on Win32
<botsie> I got the example form working
<dimas> good
<botsie> it displays data from the DB but displays an error when I commit changes
<dimas> bad
<botsie> yep ... :-)
<botsie> I guess I'm doing something obviously wrong
<dimas> :)
<botsie> I'll paste the error if y'all don't mind
<dimas> yes
<botsie> 'execute.isc_dsql_prepare: Dynamic SQL Error. SQL error code = -104. Token unknown - line 1, char 18. ). ') 
<botsie> whoops that just seems to be the end of the error
<btami> wow
<btami> hi dimas,botsie
<botsie> Database commit error:
<botsie> gnue.common.datasources.GDataObjects.ConnectionError
<botsie> (-104, 'execute.isc_dsql_prepare: Dynamic SQL Error. SQL error code = -104. Token unknown - line 1, char 18. ). ') 
Action: dimas is out for half an hour
<btami> botsie: please try --debug-level=10 from command line
<botsie> will that work under Win32? And I think I got the packages marked 'no-debug'
<botsie> :-)
<btami> then  http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~btami/UNOFFICIAL-Native-Win32-Forms-2003-05-27.exe
<botsie> ok lemme try the other first. brb
<btami> and you will be my first tester :)
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<botsie> ok -- *that* didn't work
<botsie> hmmm ... will your packages co-exist with the existing client?
<btami> yes, i think
<btami> but *that* has packaged for firebird 1.0
<botsie> ok
<btami> from what install you use?
<botsie> btw, the documentation is buggy
<botsie> gnue?
<botsie> official release
<btami> the exe ?
<botsie> yes
<botsie> I decided to try it under Win 'cos I was too lazy to download all the dependencies under linux
<botsie> am pulling down your package
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<botsie> btami: getting the same error with your client
<botsie> but the extra debug level displays the SQL statement
<btami> what is that statement?
<botsie> DB005: [c:\python22\Lib\site-packages\gnue\common\datasources\drivers\DBSIG2\Dri
<botsie> ver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO emp () VALUES ()
<SachaS> which python version does gnue depend on today? 2.1,2.2 or 2.3 ?
<botsie> btami: as you can see the sql is goofy
<btami> >2.0 IIRC
<SachaS> ta btami
<btami> hi SachaS
<btami> what is "ta" means?
<botsie> btami: thanks probably
<SachaS> btami ta = thanks
<btami> SachaS: for what ? 
<SachaS> <btami> >2.0 IIRC
<btami> oh :)
<SachaS> :) thought that was the anser to my question on which python version gnue depends on
<SachaS> version > 2.0
<SachaS> btami: you comment wasnt ment to be for me?
<btami> ok, sorry :)
<botsie> SachaS: I don't think he was expecting to be thanked
<SachaS> ok.
<botsie> ummm ... so had I done something wrong or is this a bug in the firebird driver?
<btami> botsie: how you can get that error?
<botsie> btami: type in something to the form (valid data) and press save
<btami> anyway, i'v never tested GNUe with firebird 1.5
Action: dimas is back
<btami> but that statement has created by gnue, anyhow...
<botsie> could I be making a mistake somewhere?
Action: SachaS did add debian source into apt-get sources file.
Action: SachaS has to get rid of a previous version first.
<SachaS> last update was in december 2002
<botsie> ok ... I don't have any other supported dbms handy. How do I connect to ODBC?
<jamest_> should be 2.0
<btami> botsie: i think the official release had a bug in odbf driver, but
<jamest_> if it's > 2.0 then I think it's a problem
<btami> you can try with *that* unofficial
<btami> hi jamest_
<botsie> btami: ok
<btami> botsie: i'm trying to reproduce your error above...
<botsie> btami: would you like my gfd?
<btami> yes, please
<botsie> dammit, under windows -- no webserver
<botsie> one sec 
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Action: botsie downloads ssh client for windows
<SachaS> botsie do you use putty  for windows?
<botsie> SachaS: yes.
<SachaS> ok
<btami> botsie: can you send me your gfd with error output generated with --debug-level=10 --debug-file=anyfile
<btami> to btami@freemail.hu
<botsie> btami: http://www.symonds.net/~botsie/test.gfd
<botsie> ok
<btami> thanks
<botsie> will get error output
<botsie> btami: http://www.symonds.net/~botsie/debug.log
<btami> ta
<botsie> btami: trying out the new word? :-)
<btami> hehe :)
<botsie> btami: BTW, your client looks a lot better than the official one.
<btami> the official is wx, the unofficial is native win32 API
<botsie> ok
<botsie> I notice that the official packages come with both wx and tk dlls
<botsie> why is that?
<btami> tha packages made with McMillan , and that fallows all imports
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<btami> i think the python passwd module brings tk
<botsie> btami: I don't understand
<botsie> oh .. ok
<btami> maybe i'm wrong :)
<botsie> I hope I can get it to work ... gnue looks *real* good. Very simple to work with. 
<botsie> and I'm a former VB programmer
<SachaS> apt-get install did not work 100%
<SachaS> where shall i sent comments to?
<btami> botsie: sorry, but can you send me your test gdb file ?
<btami> i'm lazy to create...
<botsie> ok ... one sec
<botsie> http://www.symonds.net/~botsie/test.fdb
<botsie> 280K
<btami> ta again
<botsie> btami: connections.conf?
<btami> no, thanks
<botsie> :-)
<botsie> SachaS: what do you say in reply to 'ta'?
<btami> error with fbd url
<SachaS> botsie nothing
<botsie> http://www.symonds.net/~botsie/TEST.FDB
<reinhard> botsie: np
<reinhard> ;-)
<botsie> reinhard: ta. ;-)
<botsie> just improving my english
<botsie> :-)
<SachaS> botsie btami: in australia the guys say ta in real world!
<botsie> SachaS: you an aussie?
<btami> wish i go to australia to hear a ta :)
<jamest_> btami: win32 driver is fully functional right?
<btami> yes
<jamest_> if so then we ought to make it the official driver on win32
<jamest_> the wx one sucks on win32
<btami> i think so
<botsie> BTW, who is maintaining the documentation?
<botsie> I found some bugs in it
<btami> botsie: i got your error :(
<botsie> well ... at least it's not due to something specific to my setup
<jamest_> which docs?
<jamest_> it's all pretty much whoever feels like diving into the docs
<botsie> Form Developer's Guide
<botsie> noticed some errors in the gfd examples
Nick change: botsie -> botsie|away
<jamest_> ok, if you could describe them
<jamest_> or patch them :)
<jamest_> either way works for me
<botsie|away> I can send a patch ... but I'm not under Linux
Nick change: botsie|away -> botsie
<jamest_> well, the docs are in openoffice
<jamest_> which is a 70MB download IIRC
<jamest_> so if you could just point them out I can probably patch them up quick here
<botsie> ok ... you do not have a hope of getting a patch then. :-)
<btami> botsie|away: i will try to solve your error at home
<btami> have to go, by
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<botsie> let me explain ... in the example zipcode form
<botsie> the <entry> tags 'field attributes are wrong
<botsie> they should use the name of the <field> tags ... instead they are referring to the actual databse field names
<botsie> am I making sense?
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<dimas> botsie: yes, field should describe all db column names
<jamest_> looking
<dimas> may be that is why sql shows empty column list
<botsie> no ... I corrected that in my gfd
<botsie> the form would not run at all at first
<SachaS> who is doing the debs? assume jbailey
<botsie> jamest_: why not use DocBook? Difficult to use 'diff' and 'patch' on binary formats.
<jamest_> well, we should use docbook
<jamest_> but docbook tools suck
<jamest_> i could never get them to work
<jamest_> jcater could never get them to work
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<jamest_> they'd work, some upgrade would break them
<botsie> work out of the box on RH
<jamest_> so at least a few of us started using OO
<botsie> but yes ... the toolchain is fragile
<jamest_> as that gave us time to write docs and not screw with things messing up
<jamest_> in any case it's a re-occuring question
<jamest_> and the next version of OO should do flat file xml
<jamest_> i believe it's in the 1.1 beta now if you install all the options
<botsie> that should help
<botsie> Actually ... I heard something about 'Save As Docbook' being planned
<jamest_> yip
<jamest_> i think that's in there too
<botsie> well ... it's easy for ppl who aren't actually doing the work to talk ... so I'll gratefully accept docs in any format and shut up. :-)
<SachaS> just sent a bugreport to config-support
<jcater> morning all
<botsie> jcater: good evening
<jcater> botsie: this isn't a good place to complain about docs :)
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<jcater> oops
<botsie> jcater: wasn't complaining. please don't hurt me. ;-)
<jamest_> botsie: you have to leave jcater alone until after his morning dozen
Action: jcater puts down the baseball bat
<jamest_> (donuts)
<jamest_> the sugar rush usually makes him more pleasent
Nick change: derek -> inflammatory_but
<inflammatory_but> so you guys ever think of using java2 for gnue?
Action: botsie pulls out his copy of 'Kissing Ass for Dummies'
<inflammatory_but> j2ee kicks butt
<inflammatory_but> you could use jboss and tomcat and stuff
Nick change: inflammatory_but -> derek
Action: jamest_ grabs jcater's bat and heads for AZ
Action: derek was wondering if he could make jcater pick back up that bat
<derek> rofl
<derek> was just going to type 'i suspect jamest will pick it up first'
<chillywilly> anyone ever upgrade postgres 7.2.x to 7.3.x manually?
<chillywilly> I have my old database and I want to try and upgrade manually
<chillywilly> hmmm
<jcater> afaik, just use pg_dumpall
<chillywilly> well, I tried that but my own backup sucks
<chillywilly> hoever
<chillywilly> there's db.out and reload.trace and also the file system backup under 'preserve'
<chillywilly> oh I can try and use db.out I think
<chillywilly> -- postgresql-dump on Fri May 23 14:46:58 CDT 2003 from version 7.2
<chillywilly> --
<chillywilly> -- pg_dumpall (7.2.1)
<chillywilly> --
<jamest_> you have to pg_dumpall
<jamest_> which makes all the sql statements you need to reload into 7.3
<chillywilly> which was done by the package and stuck in that file afaict
<chillywilly> I tried to do it by hand and seems that file is fscked up soem
<jamest_> debian postgresql packages have never upgraded properly
<jamest_> i don't run them anymore
<jamest_> log in as the postgres user
<SachaS> gnue-designer just segfaulted ...
<jamest_> and do
<jcater> SachaS: release or cvs?
<chillywilly> turn automatic upgrades off ;)?
<SachaS> jcater relese, deb package
<jamest_> pg_dumpall > backup.sql
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> well, don't do that anymore
<SachaS> was playing with properties in a simple form
Action: botsie hears loud growling noises from his middle
<chillywilly> jamest: for the 3rd time I did do that but it was mnissing time cards abd stuff for my dcl database...I dunno wtf I did wrong but my own hand pg_dumpall is not a good backup
<SachaS> set the required for a text element....
<jcater> actually, I'm working on changing the way the property editor works
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<jamest_> chillywilly: that's wack, you can't screw up pg_dumpall without major effort on your part
<jamest_> you must have hit a bug or something
<chillywilly> jamest_: well maybe I did it at the wrong time
<chillywilly> jamest_: doesn't matter as I think the debian package did a proper pg_dumpall and I should be able to recover
<jamest_> chillywilly: iirc the autoupgrade also moves the old binaries 
<jamest_> so worse case you can manually fire up the old install 
<jamest_> do a good backup and restore
<chillywilly> yes....I think it also might be something to do with freakin' dcl's upgrade sucking ass
<SachaS> gnue-designer segfaulted again
<jamest_> not that I ever was foolish enough to not do a proper backup on a production system, not notice that the db was upgrading, and destroy my install.  Thus forcing me to figure that out.
<jamest_> nope.  not me.  never
Action: jamest_ tries to look innocent
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> well if I loose this info it won't be the end of the world
<jamest_> btw - it's not on the web site
<jamest_> but postgresql 7.3.3 is out
<chillywilly> great
<chillywilly> something else to fsck it all up ;)
<jamest_> you have to manually get the tarball as current still points at 7.3.2 last I read
Action: jcater notes he's still on 7.2.1
<SachaS> gnue-designer segfaulted again
<jcater> geeze
<jcater> are you doing the same thing each time?
<jamest_> i thought the 0.5.0 designer had issues
<jamest_> that cvs fixed
<SachaS> its designer 0.4. something 
<SachaS> the debs
<jcater> oh, geeze
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> lots has been fixed since then
<SachaS> you guys prefer people trying cvs version ....
<jamest_> well, we need to probably release again
<SachaS> i did a gnue-designer --debug-level=10 --debug-file=second-test
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<SachaS> shall i sent the output somewhere? bug email? or shall I send it to /dev/null ?
<SachaS> dont need gnue atm, just playing around with it
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<jcater> well
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<jcater> if that's 0.4.x, I'm not sure we really want bug reports
<jcater> unless it's in the 0.5.0 release
<jcater> as 0.5.0 fixed/changed a *lot* of stuff
<SachaS> wow 0.4.1 is 25 november 2002
<SachaS> yep i see your point
<jamest_> SachaS: you'll want the 0.5.x series as it does alot more
<SachaS> thought i just get the debs so i dont have to mess around with dependencies
<jamest_> but 0.5.0 is the first release with a lot of major changes under the hood
<jcater> jamest_: I was contemplating a 0.5.1 release of common + forms + designer maybe this week or next
<jcater> SachaS: woody or sid?
<SachaS> jcater: unstable
<jcater> there's new packages for sid iirc (look at channel topic)
<jamest_> those are buggy aren't they?
<SachaS> jcater yep got those
<jcater> beats me
<jcater> I think you're right though
<jcater> I've seen complaints
<jamest_> jbailey wanted to sit down and work through some of them with me on a thursday
<jamest_> but for some reason we were both here and didn't do it
<SachaS> sent a bug report to config-support as the paths were wrong in the gnue-forms, gnue-designer
<SachaS> did not realise that the debs are that old (2002)
<SachaS> so must have been fixed by now
<SachaS> mv bug-0.4.1 /dev/null
<SachaS> good night
<SachaS> bye
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<btami> hi all
<btami> if botsie comes back, please tell him not to use capital letters in his gfd
<btami> like field="emp_ID"
<btami> thanks, and bye
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<siesel> Hi all
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<lupo_> hi
<siesel> hi lupo_
<siesel> do you have tested openoffice beta2 allready?
Action: siesel wants to use docbook import/export, but I can't get the jdk detected :(
<jbailey> Is openoffice still painfully slow?
<jbailey> I keep seeing that Ximian is spending time on it, and I haven't figured out why, since abiword and gnumeric seem to have all the features that most offices would need.
<siesel> Its improving. The 1.1beta loads much faster than 1.0
<jbailey> Ah, nice.
<siesel> btw, there are some pysablot packages which are required for gnue reports
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jbailey> Need ajmitch to finish his bloody NM process so that someone else can do these. =)
<siesel> jcater had made some debian packages, do you think you could add them to debian unstable (if jcater agrees?)
Action: siesel hopes that ajmitch can finish that NM process soon
<jcater> those are nickr's, actually
<jcater> whom I haven't seen in ages
<jcater> we were waiting for license clarification upstream, iirc
<siesel> hmmm, that's bad. Because I think that it will take another "while" :(
<jcater> pysablot is only required for the demo stuff
<jcater> all the new stuff doesn't need it
<siesel> what about the other sablotron wrappers for python?
Action: siesel tried reports doing pdf export with reportlab, great stuff :)
<siesel> jcater: you think that we should use XSLT at all?
<siesel>  /should/shouldn't/
<jbailey> What did the license look like?
<jbailey> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysablot/ claims that its GPLd
<jcater> siesel: nope
<jcater> we tried it
<jcater> it was a disaster
<jcater> jbailey: yeah, but iirc there was no copy of the license in the tarball
<jcater> and the sourcefiles weren't clearly marked
<jcater> (this is what I was told... I'm not a maintainer so don't know if all that matters or not)
<jbailey> Hmm..  Yeah, generally it does. =(
<jbailey> Stupid upstream maintainers.
<jcater> sadly, derek actually did a patch for them that applied their license
<jcater> I think even sent a tarball w/only changes being license
<jcater> asking them to release this
<jbailey> Have you folks considered using something else like http://xmlsoft.org/XSLT/python.html ?
<jcater> or patch their cvs
<jcater> I don't remember seeing that
<jcater> but the xslt processor for reports is pluggable
<jcater> i.e., someone just needs to wrap that package and reports supports it
<jbailey> I wonder if that's the same as libxslt1-python2.2
<jbailey> In which case it's even already in Debian.
<jbailey> Hmm, maybe not.  xsltproc comes from the same sources.
<jbailey> Isn't that part of mozilla?
<jbailey> Nope.  My mistake.
<jbailey> They are the same.
<jbailey> So yeah, use that one. =)
<jbailey> then it'll be all good.
<siesel> jcater: does it make sense to have a fallback mechanism for XSLT processors?
Action: siesel isn't shure about the priority of XSLT for Reports nowadays.
<lupo_> jcater: what's the point against XSLT?
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<siesel> support for libxslt is in CVS now
<jbailey> Sweet. =)
Action: jbailey pokes jamest_
<jcater> lupo_: the idea behind using xslt in the first place
<jcater> was that non-programmers could do their own report translations
<jcater> after doing several ourselves, I don't think that's a reasonable goal
<jcater> report translations == output filters
<jbailey> It should be fine - but you need a decent interface for creating the report things.
<jcater> ?
<jcater> the things we were using xslt for were too low level to be of a concern to non-programmers anyway
<jcater> basically gnue-reports --> text
<jcater> or gnue-reports --> postscript
<jcater> xslt is great for going from xml --> some other xml-like format
<jcater> but going from xml to text, postscript, pcl, etc
<jcater> is using the wrong tool imho
<jcater> which is what was happening
<siesel> jcater: btw. is the native pdf / ps creation of reports working already?
Action: siesel wants to printout some tables with chinese characters, and its possibly easier to tweak the native ps creation algorithm than to tweak reportlab 
<jcater> um
<jcater> for SimpleTabulation, I'm not sure
<jcater> I think btami added some native ps generation
<jcater> I'm working on the next generation markup
<jcater> based on styles, etc
<jcater> it's got a ways to go
<jcater> before useful
<jcater> and I'm stuck in designer hell at the moment
<jcater> but I'm not maintaining SimpleTabulation any longer
Action: siesel hopes that hell turns to heaven soon :)
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I'm working on a big forms project
<jcater> and am determined to use only Designer to do the forms
<jcater> no vi
<jcater> so designer is getting a lot of stuff fixed, to put it mildly :)
<siesel> yes, I mostly miss the widget resize feature :(
Action: siesel has to restart designer multiple times to design one form
<siesel> so you think SimpleTabulation is doomed? Is there another way to get a table printed out?
<jcater> SimpleTabulation is it for the moment
<jcater> although reports can output docbook directly
<jcater> I've been meaning to add an example report to that effect
<jcater> but I'm having to learn docbook at the same time
<siesel> that's multitasking !
<jcater> I doubt SimpleTabulation will go away any time soon
<jcater> but it won't get any more complex than it is now
<siesel> I think if Universal has table support SimpleTabulation isn't needed anymore
<jcater> exactly
<jcater> but I won't remove simpletabulation any time soon
<jcater> as several people are using it in production
<siesel> ok. 
<jcater> I was just saying I won't be putting any more effort into it
<siesel> Is there any example for the ps creation with "Universal"?
Action: siesel wants to give it a try
<jcater> it's no where near usable
<jcater> or runnable for that matter
<siesel> seems that I can't avoid hacking reportlab :(
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<botsie> 'morning
<Sacha> morning botsie
<Sacha> <btami> if botsie comes back, please tell him not to use capital letters in his gfd
<Sacha> <btami> like field="emp_ID"
<Sacha> <btami> thanks, and bye
<botsie> Sacha: that was it???
<botsie> who would have thought it?
Action: botsie wants to test this
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<chillywilly> bah
<jcater> bah
<jcater> black
<jcater> sheep
<jcater> have you any wool
<jcater> yes sir, yes sir, three bags full
<chillywilly> yes sir
[21:50] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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<botsie> Sacha: it worked.
<botsie> *that* was bizarre
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<Sacha> bye
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--- Wed May 28 2003