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<jcater> how
<jcater> how's it going?
<jcater> I can't stay up much longer
<dneighbo> sorry had to clean heat sink and relube
<dneighbo> cpu in place w/ goodies
<dneighbo> just have to put memory in and get in case 
<dneighbo> i couldnt find a video card under 69.99 there :(
<dneighbo> i found one for 129.99 on sale for 99.99 w/ a $20 rebate so that made it 79
<dneighbo> i figured might as well
<jcater> wow
<dneighbo> it was either 32mb for $69
<dneighbo> or 128mb for $79
Action: dneighbo is PRAYING it will work on GNU/Linux
<dneighbo> ati radeon 9100
<dneighbo> there were a few for 49.99 but all agp only
<jcater> http://www.xfree86.org/4.3.0/radeon.4.html
<jcater> appears that it does
<jcater> even supports the 3D functions of the cards
<dneighbo> oh yummy
<dneighbo> btw went to get that samsung that samsung supports debian
<dneighbo> it is out of stock EVERYWHERE
<dneighbo> so i asked for floor model
<dneighbo> got it for $119 and i think
<dneighbo> i can still get the 50 mfg rebate :)
<dneighbo> a laser printer 15ppm 600dpi GNU/Linux supported for 69 would be the bomb :)
Action: dneighbo is happy at 119
<jcater> damn
<jcater> did they have another?
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<SachaS> if dneighbo == derek then OK else HMM end
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<Arturas> Hello
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<chillywilly> hey hey
<Vee2d2> howdy
<jamest> hodwy
<jamest> er
<jamest> howdy
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<chillywilly> hi
<chillywilly> jcater, jbailey, and dyfet
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<chillywilly> hi Sacha
<jcater> morning
<dneighbo> hello
<Sacha> hi chillywilly
<dneighbo> well i gave up last night jcater
<Sacha> you guys still on 0.5.1 ?
<dneighbo> everything installed and cant get video to get a signal :(
<Sacha> preparing to release 0.5.1
<dneighbo> basically identical symptoms to last motherboard
<dyfet> it is morning...
<Sacha> ahh dneighbo has no time for 0.5.1 as his computer still corked
<dyfet> for me, that is before noon :)
<chillywilly> haha
<chillywilly> bum
<jcater> Sacha: really close
<jcater> I had a list of about 12 or so issues with designer
<jcater> I'm down to about 3
<jcater> or 4
<Sacha> wow. sounds very promising
<jcater> I'm working on Undo at the moment
<jcater> :)
<jcater> dneighbo: :(
<Sacha> jcater can you work on designer during paid work?
<jcater> I do some, yes
<jcater> certainly not full-time though
<dneighbo> oh
[09:55] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<dneighbo> switched it to 100mhz from 133mhz and getting a signal
<dneighbo> ah yes
<jcater> cool
Action: dneighbo thwaps jcater (for the only bad advice i got in 4 years from him)
<jcater> sorry
<jcater> that advice came with a disclaimer
<dneighbo> this is true
<dneighbo> dont know why i didnt think last night to try switching it
<dneighbo> i was hungry and tired i tried like 3 times and went to bed
<jcater> but
<jcater> the real question is
<jcater> did you eat first?
<dneighbo> no
<dneighbo> i hadnt eaten since about 3pm
<dneighbo> and it was about 10:30
<jcater> you were doomed for failure then :)
<dneighbo> so i was WELL past pigging out time
<dneighbo> oh happy dance
<dneighbo> now if i can get this video card to work for real
<dneighbo> with all its features i might cream myself
<jcater> well
<jcater> try not to do it on the motherboard
<jcater> man
<jcater> I can't believe all this negativity around the SAP-DB license change
<jcater> lots of fud being spread
<jcater> it's even on the wxPython list now
<dneighbo> well two things about that
<dneighbo> 1. SAP-DB went about it all wrong.
<dneighbo> 2. SAP-DB went about it all wrong.
<dneighbo> the more i see the change and talk to SAP, the more I _like_ the change
<dneighbo> my understanding is that they will continue to own SAP-DB and develop it
<dneighbo> they are jsut 'sub licensing' it to MySQL AB
<dneighbo> and MySQL AB will add some 'features/fluff' and put under a different license and try to make money on it
<dneighbo> in doing so SAP-DB has become protective (in a good way) and made the whole shooting match GPL
<dneighbo> instead of just the engine (so they can continue to make money sub licensing)
<dneighbo> thtis to me is good news not bad news
<dneighbo> my original understanding is they were selling SAP-DB to MySQL and never touching it again
<jcater> yeah, I've followed the threads in SAP-DB
<jcater> I really have little sympathy for the whiners
<chillywilly> dneighbo: have you ever upgraded dcl form 0.9.2 to 0.9.3?
<jcater> but I guess that's just a difference in philosophy between them and us
<chillywilly> I did this and I don't get mails about everything like I used to and it's driving me nuts
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<jbailey> WHat's Sapdb done?  All I heard was that it's was merging with mysql.
<dneighbo> jbailey: thats enough to make serious db'ers freak out
<dneighbo> mysql is equivalent of a yugo
<dneighbo> sap-db a porsche
<dneighbo> the original reports coming across (not from sap)
<dneighbo> was that porsche sold the 911 to yugo and yugo would do all further development on the 911 and it would be renamed under the Yugo name
<dneighbo> rightfully so people freaked
<dneighbo> HOWEVER, now SAP-DB has made official statements and i dont think that is the case
<jbailey> The only people I know who object to mysql are in this channel. =)
<dneighbo> but the people are whining because they made the client libraries GPL (instead of LGPL as they used to be)
<dneighbo> jbailey: must be the only smart guys you talk to are in this channel ;/)
Action: chillywilly smacks dneighbo into dcl support mode
<jbailey> Hah perhaps.  All I know is that when we went from 10 million records to 15 million, MySQL choked.  When we went from 15 million to 20 million, Postgres choked, so we went Oracle. =)
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Action: havoc has put 600,000,000 rows into a mysql db
<havoc> yes, I said 600 million
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<jcater> two words for that
<jcater> damn foolist
<jcater> s/st/sh
<havoc> jcater: no, zero data loss/corruption
<jbailey> jcater: You folks keep claiming that.  But at 10 million records, it was fast, no corruption.
<havoc> too many ppl expect a db to do too much without the host system being configured properly
<jbailey> It worked beautifully under heavy-ish load.
<dneighbo> we can keep claming it sucks until they have the same features as oracle, sap-db and db2 (even mssql)
<jbailey> dneighbo: Sure, but it would be nice if you were consistant about why it sucks.
<jbailey> If it's just features, then I can continue to use it knowing that it does all I need it to do.
<Vee2d2> I really dug mysql for a while.. until I had to do some trickery with a bunch of real hairy joins mainly due to the lack of subselections.. I have a burnt spot on my brain from working through that.. 
<dneighbo> it is lack of features
<dneighbo> BUT
<dneighbo> mind you i think most people that like mysql are sql newbies
<dneighbo> as powersql users get irrated they can't do a LOT of stuff
<dneighbo> the sql syntax of mysql in general is horribly uncompliant
<dneighbo> you cant do stored procedures/triggers
<dneighbo> i could go on and on but its been thrashed here way too much
<dneighbo> as Vee2d2 subselects
<dneighbo> at one time views were missing (dont know if they still are)
<dneighbo> but not have having views is like having a car w/o reverse
<jbailey> Sure.  But it doesn't suck because it doesn't have those features.
<jbailey> Any more than Linux sucks because it can't run most commercial apps.
<dneighbo> um but it does
<jbailey> It's only a requirement if you NEED those apps.
<jbailey> A pedal bike doesn't suck.  It's just not suitable for riding on the Freeway.
<dneighbo> again let me say sql newbies like it
<dneighbo> cause they dont know better
<dneighbo> a pedal bike is better than walking 4 miles to work
<jcater> it does if SAP-DB is to assume the MySQL name, a name that is synonymous with "we don't give a fuck about traditional database needs"
<dneighbo> and if i didnt know a care existed i would probably be happy as can be
<jbailey> dneighbo: Better for what?  I like the exercise (Note that I walk about half that to work)
<dneighbo> er s/care/car
<dneighbo> sigh
<dneighbo> i will say in your case (and those thtat dont care) mysql is fine
<dneighbo> mysql technically doesnt 'suck'
<dneighbo> as i ahve stated for heavy read applications w/ volatile data requirements (like web sites)
<jbailey> jcater: I don't know the folks, but I've always understood it not as 'we don't care', but 'this does what we need it to.  You're welcome to hack on it'.
<dneighbo> mysql is a good solid choice
<dneighbo> jbailey: BEEP wrong answer
<dneighbo> they wont accept GPL patches to GPL code
<dneighbo> that aint "you're welcome to hack on it"
<dneighbo> thats "we dont mind raping you for free" 
<dneighbo> i.e. they had old mozilla mindset
<dneighbo> all your patches belong to me
<dneighbo> hmmm looks like this mother board had onboard video
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<dneighbo> grr cant get this radeon to work
<dneighbo> any tips on configuring ati radeon 9100
<havoc> hmm, if anyone's ever looking for a simple yet interesting large dataset to do some informal benchmarking with I have ~600,000,000 rows of IP=hostname data
<havoc> httpd logs are an interesting dataset
<havoc> and I have billions of log lines
<havoc> of course I can only release those of sites I own
<havoc> but I have ~5yrs worth
<havoc> I've had MySQL up to 4-5GB tables
<dneighbo> how do you tell what version of X you have?
<havoc> takes a looooooong time to load the data though :)
<havoc> dneighbo: /var/log/X.blah
<havoc> should be at top of log
<havoc> dneighbo: /var/log/XFree86.0.log
<dneighbo> i found it
<dneighbo> only have x 4.2
<dneighbo> upgrading now or trying
<havoc> heh
<jcater> yeah 4.3 supports lots more than 4.2
<jcater> iirc
<dneighbo> sigh
<dneighbo> sid only has 4.2
<jbailey> dneighbo: A new 4.2 is coming into sid tonight, 4.3 looks almost ready.
<jbailey> There's some 4.3 packages available, if you're willing to run some less-than-standard stuff.
<jbailey> Off for a bit.
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<dneighbo> hmmm looks like 4.2.1 supports radeon anyhow
<dneighbo> sigh
<lupo_> this fuckin world has gone entirely mad
<dneighbo> it looks like all these radeons are supported on AGP only
<dneighbo> lupo_: no just loopy ;)
<lupo_> look at these SCO guys
<lupo_> wtf are they doing? they can well piss off this planet.
<jcater> I saw a good argument though yesterday
<jcater> about what they may be thinking
<jcater> I think they are crack-whores and will lose horribly
<jcater> but it's possible they are seeing the old network layers copied from BSD
<jcater> it's well documented that AT&T ripped those off and put them in SysV
<jcater> and later had to change their copyright notices
<jcater> but SCO's code base predates that court case
<jcater> so perhaps they are seeing this old BSD code
<jcater> which is definitely going to look a lot like the Linux code
<jcater> of course, this means they are just embarrasing themselves further by not knowing the history of their code
<jcater> and they have no case whatsoever
<jcater> but it may explain why they fervently believe they've been copied from
<lupo_> hm
<jcater> of course, any way you look at it
<jcater> they are digging their grave
<jcater> who in their right mind would use SCO after this?
<lupo_> two german companies have filed "cease and desist" letters to SCO Germany
<jcater> yeah, I saw that
<dneighbo> what is all this DRI stuff?
<dneighbo> jcater you know anythting about it?
<jcater> ?
<lupo_> what DRI?
<lupo_> you mean Xfree DRI stuff?
<jcater> Direct Rendering Interface
<dneighbo> http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/dri_driver_features.phtml
<dneighbo> yea
<jcater> basically hardware accellerated 3D
<lupo_> yep
<lupo_> GNU/Linux's DirectX, so to speak
<dneighbo> also via modconf
<dneighbo> i cant get the driver to load (do i need to)
Action: dneighbo is getting discouraged (and late for work)
<jcater> can you get X going without it?
<dneighbo> why couldnt compusa sell cheap video card
<dneighbo> jcater: yeah i think so
<jcater> I wouldn't stress about it
<dneighbo> was wondering if could use instead of X
<jcater> instead of X?
<dneighbo> seems PCI for tthis stuff is rare
<jcater> I wouldn't go that route at all
<dneighbo> noticed there was OPtion "ForcePCI" or something
<dneighbo> do i need to have driver enabled via modconf?
<dneighbo> if so that is what is killing me
<dneighbo> if not im not sure what to do
<jcater> isn't that for directfb support?
<dneighbo> grr me kicks computer
<dneighbo> tried w/ fb
<dneighbo> w/o fb
<dneighbo> trying everything
<dneighbo> i suppose i can try to get unnoffical 4.3 debs
<dneighbo> but still dont know if i need that modconf to load a module or not
Action: dneighbo cant get it to load 
<jcater> but I don't think you need/want fb
<jcater> so if it's fb related
<jcater> don't screw w/it
<dneighbo> im just at a loss
<dneighbo> #debian tells me its the monitor....
<dneighbo> sigh
<dneighbo> nevermind those monitor settings have worked for 12mos +
<jcater> and you're not getting text mode or anything?
<dneighbo> grr 
<dneighbo> shit
[11:30] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<dneighbo> yes i get text mode
<dneighbo> i had the video plugged into motherboard video
<dneighbo> NOT the ATI card
Action: jcater thwaps dneighbo with a large trout
<dneighbo> well switched to the video card and nothing
Action: dneighbo might have to reboot
Action: dneighbo slaps dneighbo with a massive trout
<dneighbo> no video signal from radeon
<dneighbo> i think im going to just stick with on board and return the radeon
<jcater> the radeon was a bit much for what you needed anyway
<jcater> so probably not a bad idea
<dneighbo> yes an no
<dneighbo> i really want wife to play games (she asked for the sims)
<dneighbo> so i want to encourage computer behaviors :)
<dneighbo> yeah i have X
<dneighbo> with WICKED resolution
<Vee2d2> man.. it's weird to click on an rtf and have it loaded up into an embedded abiword within the browser
<dneighbo> grr
<dneighbo> gnome sucks
<dneighbo> i cant get gnome to come up under lauries login
<dneighbo> i deleted EVERY freaking . file in the home dir
<dneighbo> and still it hangs on login
<dneighbo> but other users (brittany) works fine
<dneighbo> but not mine
Action: dneighbo doesnt get it
Action: dneighbo knows its a damn gconf thing
<dneighbo> i just know it
<dneighbo> looks like she gets kde 3.0
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<chillywilly> dneighbo: yay, kde!
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<chillywilly> oh boy....
<chillywilly> look what the cat drug in
<jhihn> \q
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<Sacha> night
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<jcater> rofl
<jcater> this is too funny
<jcater> http://www.arie.org/doh/
<drochaid> LMFAO
<drochaid> allo jcater
<jcater> hello
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<dneighbo> any ideas on how to fix gnome hanging?>
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<chillywilly> dneighbo: install kde? ;)
<dneighbo> sigh
<dneighbo> wife is trained on gnome
<dneighbo> kde is installed 
<dneighbo> also all the "debian menus" disappeared
<dneighbo> its really screwed
<dneighbo> why does apt-get install gnome-core want to uninstall all the kde stuff?
<chillywilly> heh
--- Sat May 31 2003