Phython (~jim@CPE080020f943c6-CM014070228156.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@adsl-66-142-212-1.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) steveb (~steveb@202-0-63-188.adsl.paradise.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. fixe (~fixe@dsl017-020-123.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1255P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-117.wasp.net.au) left irc: Remote closed the connection Sacha_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-117.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. dcmwai (~chatzilla@219.95.155.102) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.8.11 [Mozilla rv:1.2.1/20030505]" lxf2 (~agus_tea@202.73.120.115) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik_ (~yrashk@nv.donetsk.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. 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SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-205.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-99.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. kansas is insane lxf2 (~agus_tea@202.73.120.115) left irc: i'm dealing with sales tax here one city/county tax rate is 7.05% .05 of a percent!?!?! cool we have 20% in austria we now have to charge based upon destination of shipped item within the state jamest: you would be happy if you got those 0.05% :-) which means that you have to track the individual city/county per customer and charge the appropriate rate i got the paperwork informing me on monday it goes live on July 1st i so want to hurt someone Nick change: SachaS -> SachaZzz man that sucks.. lupo__ (~lupo@p5085FFD4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jamest thwaps the US Post Office site admins around every damn page I get a pop which summarizes "You're using Konqueror. We recommend IE4+, Mozilla1+, Netscape4+, Opera5+" Thanks guys! It didn't sink in the first 15 times I clicked OK. But it's starting to! fixe (~fixe@dsl017-020-123.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: "because I feel like it" retards at least they claim to support more than one browser ;) "best viewed with 743x388.5 pixels, 37 colors, a shark-17-inches-monitor, contrast 92 degrees, lumination 17 degrees, wednesday morning at 7.36am from january till march with cloudy weather in a north-north-east aligned building" FUCK THEM lol it is impressive to see mozilla/opera on the list dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.31.205) joined #gnuenterprise. at least they acknowledge that borwsers other than internet exploder exist browsers bah chillywilly: ... who know what? I like the way home depot does there well, I hate browser detection but if one MUST do it, I like home depots browser detection is stupid Hello jcater you should detect objects they take you to a page warning you that you may not be compatable cause it's mainly for JS anyway chillywilly: sometime it is good... to make the best view. but don't prevent you from going on dcmwai: lame lame? write better html ;) yes the web designer is really lam lame the user isn't going to change, the bursen rests on the developer burden actually I was tryign to do something like that... the browser is not IE will be able to get in the page :) just look at the user agent string you can do it in JS pretty easily or have a cgi that checks it probably better if they have JS turned off if ($ENV{"HTTP_USER_AGENT"} !~ /MSIE 5.\d\;/) { print " \n"; } else { print " \n"; } haha ;) fixe (~fixe@dsl017-020-123.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. i love marketing right now a comercial on the radio says Today 60% of all fatalities (due to house fire) occur in a house without a working smoke detector. With your help we can change that. and they are abolutely correct as with enough effort on our part everyone can have a working smoke detector and then 100% of all fatalities due to house fires will occur in a house with a working smoke detector well you know what they say about statistics..... there are lies, damn lies and statistics haha how goes it, derek? not bad going to miss that 70 degree weather though where did you go? prescott, arizona (church camp) jamest: i like this one too "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts?for support rather than illumination" - Andrew Lang i got the message i just found the wording really odd as that implied %40 had working ones kinda link in the emperors new groove "yea! I'm a llama again! oh, wait." they didn't quite say what I think they meant or they didn't plan on people w/ my thought patterns listening good thing they didnt go to the pres bush school of marketing... dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.31.205) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) "Johnson Smoke Detectors, you either buy one or you support house fire fatalities. Do your part to stop the Evil Ones who are against Smoke Alarms. Turn your neighbor in if they dont have fresh batteries in their smoke alarm." jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-200-152.wi.rr.com) left irc: "leaving" Mr_You (~rouzer@gso88-208-146.triad.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi larard (~tom@66-108-164-106.nyc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Hi, I've been following gnue on kt.zork.net for sometime now, and decided to try it this weekend. I installed the debian packages using the path in the topic, and now recieve an error when I try and run gnue-designer. The last line is "ImportError: No module named apps" The eror is only 6 lines, but I don't want to flood in here. larard: from what packages have you installed it? 0.5.0 release? I tried to install everything that I could fine with gnue in it. ii gnue-common 0.4.1.99-20021 The shared library for many items of the GNU ii gnue-designer 0.5.0-1 A Rapid Application Development tool for GNU ii gnue-forms-wxg 0.5.0-1 An XML-based forms painter ii gnue-reports 0.1.0.99-20021 An XML-based output-independent reporting sy hmmm that gnue-common is grossly out of date will apt-get install gnue-common upgrade it to 0.5.0-1? trying.... "gnue-common is already the newest version" and I do have the above path in my sources.list hmmm and jbailey is no where around :( I'm going to see if I can download them by hand. if you are testing to see what gnue does you might want to grab cvs hmmmn, I'm comfortable with that. jcater: does the only stable version of gnue is cvs one? How fast is development moving on this? Has it moved along way since 0.5.0? i think forms has seen more UI drivers working designer has come a long way common is fairly stable that reminds me, I need to update my little update-my-gnue-bidness-script reports, appserver I don't know jamest: Care to comment on cvs's stability? I'd say at least as stable as 0.5.0 esp. the client tools (forms, reports, etc) as most of the commits for those tools in cvs have been either bug fixes or new UI drivers Designer has improved a lot 0.5.0 Designer probably should not have been released we need to do a release what are pending issues? I guess as I've got your attention, I should ask a few questions if you don't mind! In forms, common, etc, I'm not aware of any report and designer? can I cry? I think I deleted my TODO list for Designer when we rearranged CVS I need something that will allow me to creat input and query forms for a database; I know gnue intends to do much more, but it can do this now can't it? jcater hang on was it in cvs? um, no i've got the old tree still Action: jamest thwaps jcater Action: jcater dances I mv'd that directory larard: oh yeah instead of rm -rf'ing it reinhard (~reinhard@M1255P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" designer wizards make that cake As far as bugs (not features I wanted in 0.5.1) I'm still occasionally getting that FieldInspectorPanel traceback (though can't reliably repeat it, so am having hard time debugging) I'd like to try and make another futile attempt at mouse selectoin under wx (text in forms) If I delete the last trigger in a form, I get a traceback "Run Form" on menu doesn't work larard: you can do single tables, tables with nested primary/foreign key dependencies Scrollbars on the Schema Navigator still don't appear on some databases you can query by detail (the tables w/ the foreign key fields) I grabbed the 0.5.debs. I can see why they didn't seem to in the package list. They're broken. Do you want the bug report here? ...Plus 2 or so other bugs hmmmm, actually jbailey said something about reworking the .debs with debians new setup I think jbailey is aware of issues, isn't he? then said something about the debian build system being broken wrt to python applications jamest: probably 3 or so days of good coding sessions and I'll be ok with a designer release that was a few days ago so I guess it's still the case but it'll be interesting to find those 3 days :) larard: if the .debs are toast then I'd be tempted to grab cvs as you don't have to install cvs to test it has a script that fakes the install in your directory jamest: I'll take a look, with the cvs stuff. Fake install? nice! to test data entry you'll need gnue-common, gnue-forms, gnue-designer those 3 modules (please tell me someone updated the web site instructions) yes if you ever read the gnue-dev list, you'd know that Action: jcater thwaps jamest um dude i don't think I get 1/2 the mail lemme check jcater: could you point me to those instructions? http://www.gnu.org/software/gnue/community/cvs.html should get you going you don't have to grab all of those repositories there it is! just the 3 jamest mentioned then cd into gnue-common between the 3 offers for viagra substitues and run setup-cvs.py and 2 offers to meet someone in my area and offers for millions of $$$$ yeah just ignore that last one I changed my mind damn, and I had the webcam all setup jcater: thanks for the link i don't understand my our cvs link is under community btw It's probably time for the yearly website cleanup ok, you want to rm -rf /var/www or should I? j/k :) well actually I think we need to rm -rf everything but downloads as I just realized http://www.gnuenterprise.org/community/cvs.php and http://www.gnuenterprise.org/community/cvs.html both exist the latter one being correct (with current information) rm -rf and then run the script that updates from cvs i don't know enought about the current setup to have an opinion as I thought we were linked into gnu.org now with some python stuff i thought php was no more some of our site is php and some is now static when you cvs commit into the gnue-www tree ash is still updated but if you type in http://www.gnuenterprise.org/ you get redirected to the gnu tree I don't know when that change happened or why but the same links on gnu.org and gnuenterprise.org take you to the same page bizarre ToyMan (~stuq@65-73-212-173.bras01.mdl.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection ToyMan (~stuq@65-73-212-173.bras01.mdl.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. does anyone know which debian package contains distutils so I can install designer? python-dev iirc thanks, as you wrote it, I found it.... Sods law! getting closer ... I'm now getting " DB000: File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/designer/forms/Instance.py", line 41, in ? DB000: from events.Events import registerEvents DB000: ImportError: No module named events.Events " Anyone know what module contains this? gnue-common hmm you ran gnue-commons' setup-cvs.py and are running ~/bin/gfdes ? sorry, I think I need to be pointed at and told to RTFM. gfdes? I did install gnue-common using setup.py (I did the install inside a User mode linux machine I can discard if nessecary) ah the setup-cvs.py script handles all the "fake install" stuff so you don't have to install the individual tools sorry, we weren't clear on that it creates a few scripts in ~/bin/ gfdes -- designer cvs gfcvs -- forms cvs ooops. I'll just remove the machine and try again. No biggy. actually no need I just ran it [setup-cvs.py] and there it is running fine. Thank. Seriously though, where is the users documentation? Am I being dumb and missing it? um there's some stuff under /docs but we need more/better docs aaah, but have you crossed the 'any' threshold? yeah got a wiki. I'll write up my experiences as I go along? our forms design guide is 60-70 or so pages no wiki has been debated wiki got rejected? Not supprising, lots of people have problems with them. So how do I setup my database connection then? um not rejected I'm in favor of one I think the biggest problem w/a wiki around here is misunderstanding of purpose how so? the typical negative response is "that's one more thing for developers to maintain... something they don't have time for" but I've always seen the wiki as a place for non-developers to help/participate/etc and I'm all for non-developer's helping out with docs :) Exactly, anyone can chip in and clarify or just point out inaccuracies. They really do work. You do kinda have to seed and water them however It doesn't take too long though. er, so how do I setup the database connection, get started and generally get out of your hair? postgres? mysql? I'm a postgres man myself. That was one of the reasons I like this project vi ~/gnue/etc/connections.conf then add something like: [gnue] comment = GNUe Test provider = pypgsql host = /var/run/postgresql dbname = gnue alias = prod username = gnue password = gnue you can ommit those last 2 lines if you don't like auto-login (I wouldn't have it in a production systen, but do on my home development one) host= can be an IP address if you are accessing postgres on another machine also, this uses the pypgsql python<->postgres driver which in debian is python-pgsql iirc I think that is psycopg now, as it complained about not finding that. I could be wrong. then you'd change the pypgsql reference to psycopg in what I just pasted aaah, I see. Are the python database libaries interchangeable? I had wondered why there was more than on pgsql one in the past. yes every 6 months or so one of them will get a bug so we tell people, just apt-get another one and go one :) one=on that make it a little easier, and is a good arguement for common api. it takes a little extra work to maintain multiple drivers for a single database but has proved advantagous another thing we'll see is that one driver is available precompiled for, say, freebsd and another one is available precompiled for Windows debian has all of them, so that's irrelevent to you and I but does make a difference for some people Do I write my database schema in a config file too? no designer can get the schema information from Postgres aah, so I just creat my schema in sql as normal? Should I obey any naming rules? not really if you are wanting to write a cross-database application we do have GNUe Schema which uses XML to define a schema and can create .sql files for a variety of database but if that doesn't matter to you (i.e., if this is an internal project, etc) then I wouldn't bother I'm setting up my first company, and I want to do things 'right'. I get to make the decisions! (at LAST) so postgresql it is. lol that's what I'm working on at the moment I've spent a few weeks looking into the alternatives for some sort of access replacement. gnue seems to fit the bill, the only problem I worry about is stability. Are people using this? setting up a sales system for my wife yes May I ask what he business is? s/he/her/ well, she owns a bookstore and we've used gnue to manage it for 9 months now and we just bought an antique hall down the street sounds like a sucess! I'm in the process of converting it from paper into a GNUe-based system the old owner spent the first week out of every month doing statements (crazy!) yep, buggar that for a game of darts. my wife and I are both very lazy people by nature so anything more than loading checks into a printer or pressing one or two icons The overhead in a traditional business seems huge. and it's too much :) what's funny is I've offered to help this lady before but she is a technophobe as a result, we basically got this business for free just in exchange for "rehiring" her as a simple employee who doesn't have to stress over paperwork I work with a trading system for a big wall street firm by day, and they have been spending years driving the price per trade down over the years. nice deal on the employee. we're excited this is the biggest thing we've ever done though and are a big nervous on the trading thing, they've gone from something like $6 to process a trade to 90c. nice How long have you and your wife been doing this? Did she have the bookstore long before you got involved? no it's new 9 months old we started out right she got laid off and couldn't find a job in our small town so I jokingly said, "so, let's create one" she didn't see that as a joke so here we are :) :) everything we've done is based on Debian + Postgres + other free software so our software expenditure to date is $0 that shocks most people around here I'm just sick of streamling processes for someone else. So my brother in law and I found a good american business plan and are implimenting it in london where he lives and I used to. cool The accounts thing looks like a pain to reimpliment. Can I connect to the gnucash postgres backend. Has anyone tried it? afaik, the postgres gnucash backend has been dead for a while but you could certainly do gnue screens for it ooh, I saw it was released in 0.8.0 I didn't know it was dropped. maybe it hasn't been I'm on the gnucash-devel mailing list and whenever someone asks a question re postgres they get a not-so-nice response about how it's not being maintained but maybe they mean by the main ppl I'm not a gnucash guy, so certainly don't take what I say as "the truth" Action: jcater might have misunderstood I see, what about this project I see mentioned that gnue is planning to co-opt. I forget the name. Arias/NOLA? that's it. yeah, we are going to basically create gnue forms for their backend to kick off our GNUe-Small Business product first step: get their schema off of mysql :) GNUe SBP,brings me to my next point, how are things going with development here. Is it moving, stagnating? I seem to have been reading the kt.zork.net without seeing a release in years. GNUe SB is relatively young only a few months, iirc it basically does Contact Management and Item Management (inventory) the merge with Arias it looked like an attempt to get users on to the team who may in turn attract developers. And a good idea at that. will give us A/P, A/R, G/L The main GNUe Financials project has stagnated, to a degree it has been in proposal form for years The original GNUe project seems like a very big mouthful to try chewing. and is awaiting all the tools to be where they need to be GNUe Small Business is a way to counter-act the stagnation it is strictly 2-tier in nature (no middleware application server) and is more of an implement->see what doesn't work->implement cycle sounds great. and with no forced upgrade cycle either.