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<dneighbo> jbailey: see ajmitch
<dneighbo> at one time he was looking at a flatfile driver (iirc)
<dneighbo> so there might be some code there (or on his pc)
<dneighbo> or at least he might be able to tell you where he scraped his knees :)
<jbailey> Nice, thanks!
<dneighbo> did i understand after you slog through the weekend work there is hope for debian pre-releases?
Action: dneighbo is in a testing mood (but would rather test debs)
<dneighbo> this is MOSTLY because i have GNUe training courses scheduled (yeah)
<dneighbo> and LuftHans desperately needs debs, so he wont do the unthinkable and use php for an application instead of GNU Enterprise :)
<dneighbo> so im down with testing debian packages
Action: dneighbo still needs to get on the ball with working on becoming a deb maintainer of something (so i can help with GNU Enterprise packages more)
<dneighbo> btw: you ever find debian folks near phoenix?
<jbailey> db.debian.org is down right now, so I haven't been able to look that up in like a month.
<dneighbo> i was thinking if not, there has to be some in the san diego or los angeles area (and im there about once a quarter)
<dneighbo> btw: how was debcamp?
<dneighbo> i noticed you mentioned you were there, but never got the juicy details
<jbailey> It was lovely.
<jbailey> Neat being in Norway, frikken' expensive though.
<dneighbo> hmm was tigert there?
<jbailey> Nope.
<jbailey> HE might have been at Linuxtag, though.
<dneighbo> he was working out of norway still a while back, but might be in boston by now
<jbailey> There were four conferences back to back, LSM, Linuxtag, Deb{camp,conf}, and OLS.
<jbailey> So alot of people couldn't make it to all of them.
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<dcmwai> who is not here :)
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<thierry> hi all
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<jbailey> Is there a 'best choice' for a CORBA ORB in Python?  fnorb seems to have the highest hits on google...
<jcater> iirc fnorb is not free
<thierry> jcater: yep
<jbailey> It appears to be in Debian...
<jcater> oooo
<jcater> they opened it up
<thierry> did you get a look at omniorb ?
<jcater> under a python-like license
<thierry> jcater: 1.6 one ? 
<jcater> 2.2
<jcater> this is new
<jcater> as when I was doing the rpc drivers
<thierry> ah!
<jcater> they were closed source
<jcater> at the time I preferred omniorb
<jcater> but the nice thing about fnorb
<jcater> is it is truly python
<jcater> (hell, it was written in python)
<jcater> only thing that worries me about fnorb
<jcater> is the reason they opened it up, was no one was developing it any longer
<jcater> if that's still true even after opening it up
<thierry> hehe.. may be...
<jcater> I wonder if it's worth committing long term to using it
<thierry> if there is people to continue the fnorb CORBA 3.0 development, it's ok
<thierry> if not... big problem...
<jbailey> What do you recommend then?
<thierry> difficult choice...
<thierry> the fnorb activity is still good 
<thierry> and the latest release is from the 21 july
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<thierry> IMHO i will chose fnorb
<thierry> because the pure python implementation
<thierry> jcater: you are developing rpc for appserver ?
<jcater> I started it
<jcater> but it's largely been taken over by siesel
<thierry> I'm developping a framework based on XML-RPC
<thierry> and I'm wondering if I should contribute (in any manner) at yours or still continue developping mine
<jbailey> thierry: Thanks.  I'll use that for my own coding then.
<thierry> jbailey, jcater: you never heard about CMP (container-manager persistent) ?
<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> thierry: that's an unfair question
<jcater> as you know what my answer will be
<jcater> :)
<thierry> hehe :)
<jcater> no, not heard of CMP
<thierry> great system for object transparent persistence in relational database
<thierry> right now it's for java bean
<thierry> i'm developping it for python
<jbailey> Why not just use an object database?
<thierry> jbailey: data should be read/managed by any other "simple|common" system
<thierry> and customer says "I want RDBMS"
<thierry> so.. :)
<jbailey> *that* I understand. =)
<jbailey> I tend to think everything should use Object Databases. =)
<thierry> me too (as developer) but business reality is quite different ;)
<thierry> I planned in the roadmap to be closer to GNUe with the 1.0 release
<jbailey> BAH  fnord in Debian is version 1.8
<thierry> jbailey: why fnord ? you mean fnorb ?
<jbailey> Oh, wups!
<jbailey> Maybve that's my mistake. =)
<thierry> in unstable 1.2-6
<thierry> on sf 1.3
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<jbailey> Oy. fnord doesn't support POA
<jbailey> Nor does it have support for file sockets.
<thierry> bad point!
Action: thierry thinks jbailey means fnorb ;)
<jbailey> YEah.
<jbailey> Dunno why I keep getting that wrong.
<jbailey> Hmm, so there's orbit2-python, and omniidl next to look at.
<cray> is it essential to be well known of Python to create a database-GUI application in Designer ?
<cray> above your manual it's at least very recommended
<jbailey> omniorb has been pulled out of unstable.
<jcater> cray: it depends on how complex you need your forms to be
<jcater> quite a few of my forms have no triggers at all
<jcater> triggers = python code
<jcater> and the ones that do are not much more than setting a value
<cray> sound good, thanks
<cray> May I have a rather different question ....why did you decice to develop GNUe in Python?
<cray> ....and not C, for example
<jbailey> CAn you imagine writing triggers in C? =)
<jcater> we like python
<jcater> I could give a long explanation
<jcater> but I imagine that's the bottom line :)
<cray> hm, thanks
<cray> ...I don't know scripting languages ..a little Perl ....is Python siutable more than Perl anyway?
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<cray> Python ....not going to critisize you.....seems me a little exotic..only a little, but yes
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<jbailey> python-orbit-dev wants python1.5
<jbailey> Why does CORBA support in Python suck *so* *badly*?
<jbailey> Ah, no, the web page just refers to the old debian package.
<jbailey> New version supports python2.1, 2.2 and 2.3
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<thierry> re
<chillywilly> re
<thierry> hello chillywilly
<jamest> what exactly is "re"
<jamest> regards?
<thierry> hello again
<jbailey> jamest: return.
<chillywilly> no, it's regrards isn't it?
<chillywilly> regards
<chillywilly> why the hell would someone enter a channel and say "return"
<chillywilly> that doesn't make sny sense ;)
<chillywilly> any*
<chillywilly> jbailey: CORBA sucks, pass it on ;)
<thierry> re  =  hi again, as in 're hi'  
<thierry> http://irchelp.org/irchelp/new2irc.html#smiley
<chillywilly> re == regards
<chillywilly> really?
<chillywilly> bah
<thierry> the link is from xchat.org site
<chillywilly> oh well
<chillywilly> I thought it was frickin' regards
<thierry> jamest: did you get a look at popy's cvs version ?
<chillywilly> people should actually type re hi then...the lazy bastids ;)
<jamest> not yet
<jamest> was doing prerelease last nite
<jamest> will be installing sunday
<jamest> sorry for the delays
<jbailey> chillywilly: "I have returned"
<thierry> jamest: my friend is doing better mxDateTime integration
<chillywilly> jbailey: yea yea
<chillywilly> jbailey: how's it going man?
<jamest> cool, i thought popy was going away though?
<jamest> merging or something
<jbailey> chillywilly: Still looking for a non-sucking corba implementation in python.
<jbailey> beginning to wish I had just done this in c++
<chillywilly> jbailey: I am not a fan of corba
<jbailey> It does the job.
<jamest> man, corba sucked
<jbailey> Better than many of the competing implementations. =)
<jamest> they never could be gi joe
<jamest> s/be/beat
<chillywilly> jbailey: I do like this prospective broker and remote object stuff in the twisted python framework
<jamest> oh wait
<jamest> nevermind
<jbailey> jamest: ;)
<thierry> jamest: last version 2.1 to get stable one
<thierry> jamest: after merging w/ pygresql
<jbailey> python2.1-omniorb2
<jbailey> Hmm  That might do.
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> supposed to be a better orb
<jamest> man subversion seems so much nicer than cvs
<jbailey> The the orbit2 bindings were looking great until I found out that they don't do servers.
<chillywilly> jamest: it is :)
<jamest> it's got to be hiding some deep dark evil secret
<chillywilly> hmm, my connection is laggy
<chillywilly> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/documents/howto/pb-intro
<jbailey> jamest: Its dark evil secret is that it's still alpha software.
<chillywilly> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/documents/howto/pb-usage
<jbailey> And it'll probably be years until they release. =)
<chillywilly> I doubt that
<chillywilly> HEAD is quite stable ;)
<jbailey> Sure, but that doesn't mean they release any faster than, say, gnue. =)
<jamest> they release almost twice a month
<jamest> it's insane
<chillywilly> eh, what's a release anyway but a snapshot of a program at a certain point in time ;)
<jamest> the fact they self host makes me feel better about things
<chillywilly> they eat their own dog food
Action: chillywilly got one of these for the laptop: http://micronet.vwh.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AB&Product_Code=3CN3AC1556
<chillywilly> miniOCI device
<chillywilly> PCI*
<chillywilly> balh
<chillywilly> sldkjfhlkasjdhflkjh
<chillywilly> typing sucks
<chillywilly> la la la 
<chillywilly> hmmm,  haven't updated my gnue tree in eons
<chillywilly> ah crap subversion is prompting me for a passworfd
<chillywilly> I don't remember changing my key
<chillywilly> hmm, but I was able to updaet gnue-sb
Action: chillywilly tries a fresh checkout
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> damnit
<chillywilly> bah, I have no key
Action: chillywilly generates one
<chillywilly> bye
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<lupo> hey guys
<lupo> what's going on in the tree?
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<chillywilly> anyone know the ssh config sytanx for specifying sshv1 for savannah?
<chillywilly> in a ~/.ssh/config file that is
<ajmitch> chillywilly: yes
<chillywilly> can I have it? :)
<ajmitch> Host subversions.gnu.org
<ajmitch>         IdentityFile ~/.ssh/identity
<chillywilly> is that an sshv1 key?
<ajmitch> you may also want to add in a 'Protocol 1'
<ajmitch> yes
<chillywilly> I generated an rsa and dsa key
<chillywilly> but I think they're v2 keys
<ajmitch> then you got v2 keys
<chillywilly> what's the switch for generating v1?
<chillywilly> or do I use ssh-keygen1
<ajmitch> man ssh-keygen
<chillywilly> geee, thanks
<ajmitch> well don't be so lazy :P
<chillywilly> I looked at the man page
<ajmitch> and it's clearly there in mine
<chillywilly> nothing caught my eye
<chillywilly> how do you think I generated the v2 key in the first place?
<ajmitch> with a quick glance I saw version 1 keys mentioned
<chillywilly> well I missed it then
<ajmitch> DESCRIPTION
<ajmitch>      ssh-keygen generates, manages and converts authentication keys for ssh(1).  ssh-keygen can create RSA keys for use by SSH protocol
<ajmitch>      version 1 and RSA or DSA keys for use by SSH protocol version 2. The type of key to be generated is specified with the -t option.
<chillywilly> I used -t
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> I see now
<chillywilly> doh
<ajmitch> and then I did the obvious thing & looked at what to specify for the -t option :P
<chillywilly> savannah is stupid
<ajmitch> no
<chillywilly> why don't they switch to version 2?
<ajmitch> savannah accepts v2 keys
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> well I uploaded an rsa v2 key
<ajmitch> they default to v1 keys iirc
<chillywilly> it doesn't work yet and it was much earlier in the day
<ajmitch> just try ssh -2 username@subversions.gnu.org
Action: ajmitch can't recall if you used danileb or chillywilly for username there
<chillywilly> danielb
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> prompts me for a password
<chillywilly> :(
<chillywilly> are you able to put my key in th eright spot for me? :)
<chillywilly> plllleeeeeease
<ajmitch> no
<chillywilly> you aren't?
<chillywilly> bummer
<ajmitch> no means no
<ajmitch> no != yes
<chillywilly> sometimes I wonder why I bother talking to you
<ajmitch> savannah is a seperate dictatorship
<chillywilly> yea well you don't have to bne a smartass about it
<chillywilly> just forget I ever said anything
Action: chillywilly crawls back into his hile
<chillywilly> hole*
Action: ajmitch goes back under his rock
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<ajmitch> hi jeff
<jbailey> Heya Andrew.
<jbailey> Derek mentioned you might have a SQL parser that works on flatfiles.
<jbailey> Do you? =)
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> I started on something for CSV files, iirc
<ajmitch> and the gadfly (a mini-DB) driver was working
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jbailey> Might be an autumn project for me then.
<jbailey> (northern hemisphere)
<ajmitch> is there any real reason for using flatfiles?
<jbailey> Yup: Testsuites.
<ajmitch> ?
<jbailey> Have it select a database backend that you can easily just drop in pre-saved flatfiles.
<ajmitch> hmm
<jbailey> No need to fire up pgsql/mysql/etc.
<jbailey> So no need for extra priviledges.
<ajmitch> well gadfly is probably minimal enough for that
<ajmitch> since it doesn't require a db server
<ajmitch> plus it supports SQL without you having to write stuff to do so :)
<jbailey> Does it act as a python database compliant with whatever that standard is called?
<ajmitch> mostly
<ajmitch> DB-SIG API
Action: chillywilly read that doc the other day
<chillywilly> the perl api is simpler though ;)
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<jbailey> ajmitch: Hmm.  Looks like gadfly isn't complete enough.  Nice try though.
<jbailey> It looks like it's actually trying to to do a good job. =)
<jbailey> Whereas I just want something that's python db-compliant, supports as much of SQL92 as is possible.
<ajmitch> and so you have to try & implement most of gadfly's functionality yourself ;)
<jbailey> Yeah.  Not the most pleasant hobby I can think of.
<jbailey> Who does the SQL92 spec?  Is it IEEE?
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> dunno
<ajmitch> could be ANSI
<chillywilly> I believe it is ANSI
<ajmitch> looks to be
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--- Sun Jul 27 2003