dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. mdupont_ (mdupont@p5080E8E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all hi ajmitch, chillywilly dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) anyone awake here? I have some questions, how do you design new objects in gnue? Nick change: mdupont_ -> GNUPredator what do you mean by new objects? LuftHans: I mean new tables, new enterprise level objects have you already got a connection to the db? Nick change: Sacha-away -> SachaS moin, moin Sacha Hi LuftHans how are you? doing OK, but hungry Action: LuftHans contemplates making food, but doesn't get up. you think therefore you eat? LuftHans last night I setup gnue cvs and gnue-sb and checked the contact schema and form is this donut over matter or what? ung.. stop talking about donuts LuftHans I could add a contact, search (query) for a contact, a contact could have different addresses (mailing, delivery etc) no not yet dont make me goto the store I would like to design the tables, the objects and the interfaces from one description of the datastructures I have Action: SachaS just had sweet potato pasta (was yammi) derek: I sit here all day and you're not around. I take off for a few min to go running or for a couple of hours to see a flick and you show up. Do you have a spy cam up to know when I'm not sitting at my computer? :) SachaS: that sounds nummy LuftHans sweet potato pasta or my success with creating contacts ? BOTH LuftHans: is there a way to create database in gnue? based on some description of the model? GNUPredator I havent seen that window in gnue-designer where you could have an Entity Relationsship (ER) model and press "write gnue schema". lets back up Nick change: dneighbo_ -> derek we are not an "object" based system when appserver is ready you might find it can do more what you are are wanting right now its two tier data access no objects (not in the sense you speak of) it would be somewhat trivial (for some one versed in xml programming) to take a DIA xml file for ERD or the likes and generate a GNUE Schema xml file off of it i mean ok, so the gnue schema contains the database model? i mean by object, the ER mode l o derek that sounds like a small project (dia erd 2 gnue.schema) yes, there is an dia2 sql i am working on an dia interface for the introspector projects but the question is if you can create the database based on the gnue.schema? yes ok wow did not see that dia2sql project Action: GNUPredator upgraged gnue great now what about xmlrpc/soap interfaces? you want to wait for appserver it uses gnu rpc GNUPredator % gnue-schema my-schema.gsd which is an abstracted distributed communication infrastructurue GNUPredator creates some db specific sql scripts think ODBC for RPC ok SachaS: were you the one looking for something like dia2sql? LuftHans yes! i had written a dia2gsd once upon a timein xslt SachaS: well, there you go :) derek what happened to dia2gsd ? so right now I can use what protocol to access the gnue server? i think it got lost when i moved computers a while back :( it was far from complete and it wasnt ERD based Action: LuftHans just finished the scrollback, so is in real time again, not to say that he operates well in real time... it was UML based iirc or whatever you can define tables in actually my goal wasnt to define in dia and make gsd but rather to make pretty graphical representations of gsd's :) as when i was coding a lot emacs was my operating system I am working on some dia tools, autolayout and reverse engineering stuff you might be interested in so no need to "whip things up in dia" when you have emacs :) GNUPredator: not too much anymore no time :( otherwise i would be sure I think it is much more interesting to be able to extract data out of an existing c program massage the data layout the er diagrams and create an dia model from that and a sql schema for example reverse engineering, not forward the GNUe-sb CVS page really should mention that gnue-sb is the module name maybe also mention arias if that's gonna continue as its own module it wont be its own module that is a temporary thing thats why its a module instead a folder under the gnue-sb tree that's kinda what I thought s//gnue-sb/ on that page :) ok, later guys, nice chatting with you derek, LuftHans, SachaS gute n8 guten nacht? Hey mann, ich muss zur Arbeit!!! na ja, also, mach Spass :) Hehe Viel Spass Arbeit macht freier Software <- marketing not to use ;-) OH shit... B?se Action: LuftHans just got in from seeing _Nirgendwo in Afrika_ LuftHans: you dont work for DLH do you? der LuftHans? der Deutsch Lufthansa der Deutsche Lufthansa oder die Hansa die Deutsche Lufthansa noe, not clean cut enough for them Action: GNUPredator is confusing pronomina again Action: GNUPredator works now for informationsdesign.de they work for lufthansa I do get a lot of hits for "www.LuftHans.com/a", though :) I cant help but to think about beer whenever you guys start chattering like that haha Bier and Hausfrauen Vee2d2? that is all german is for you? what about Brezeln? not just any beer either.. big mugs frothing with rich dark beer mmm, Brezeln Lemme think.. Action: GNUPredator goes to the bakery to get his daily dose of Brezeln and Laugenstangen bye .oO(Hmm.. Beer? Beer. Beer? Beer.) GNUPredator: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46502-2003Jul25.html Action: GNUPredator looks Action: LuftHans misses good bakeries. Action: Vee2d2 too LuftHans how is it going with your Inventory project? you poor guys, left the Vaterland for what? Wonder bread and Hotdogs? and oreos! :) mmm.. Wonderbread. ;) poor bastards they don't make up for Schokocroissant, though Action: GNUPredator is from New Jersey, lives in Frankfurt (am Main) Le Cro Bag has the best Schococrossiants hmm, Frankfurt, Datenbank-Entwickler, hmmm Action: LuftHans muss Mal mit GNUPredator reden :) yes, if you have any oracle experience and java and c++ send in your cv Frankfurt isn't where I want to live, but it would be acceptable and have easy access to visit others or mail me at mdupont777@yahoo.com qualifications? we need qualifications? frankfurt is very central yup you dont need all of them unfortunately I hit 3 strikes on your list :( but being good in one of them is a good start I used to be bad a java, I used to be much worse at C++, oracle I've been smart enough to avoid ;-) what do you do now? what are your skills? do you need to be able to speak german? LuftHans: what is that article, did you write it? LuftHans: No, you dont bbl we have some americans who dont speak german Action: GNUPredator has to go feel free to drop me a mail Action: LuftHans just got a long-distance call, so has to afk a friend qualifies and would like to move to .eu, but can't speak Deutsch reinhard (~reinhard@M1249P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. thats ok what about a work permit? work permit is easy ( but maybe not right now ) ok bye for good now . :) GNUPredator (mdupont@p5080E8E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: "Client exiting" Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello derek, Hello... dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.155.208) got netsplit. johannesX (~johannes@M1263P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at) got netsplit. SachaS (~sacha@online.havanawave.com) got netsplit. tripz__ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) got netsplit. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) got netsplit. 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SachaS (~sacha@online.havanawave.com) got netsplit. tripz__ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) got netsplit. dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.155.208) returned to #gnuenterprise. johannesX (~johannes@M1263P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at) returned to #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~sacha@online.havanawave.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. tripz__ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) returned to #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1249P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "When all else fails, read the instructions." reinhard (~reinhard@M1249P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: SachaS -> Sacha_away dcmwai_ (~dcmwai@219.95.155.208) joined #gnuenterprise. oh... I'm 2 me in the channel :) support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q196/6/28.ASP other peoples are facing much more troubles then we ever could imagine dcmwai_ (~dcmwai@219.95.155.208) left irc: "Client exiting" dimas: this is nearly unbelievable R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon2371.tstt.net.tt) joined #gnuenterprise. "dir /ad /s /b" would do it likewise btw :) but it's not intuitive :) lol tripz__ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4" tripz__ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@mail.actron.com) joined #gnuenterprise. mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) joined #gnuenterprise. dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.155.208) left irc: "Leaving" jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. morning all morning sigh, today I take one of my production servers to debian unstable i must be insane Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: Remote closed the connection Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. lxf (~knoppix@202.73.120.115) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: cool jamest: I always thought you were a little off ;) jamest: If you do, it would be a good idea to have a spare to test updates on. jamest: I've lived in unstable land ever since they started the freeze on woody. Totally horked my system about 4 times. jamest: Like no X. it's a headless box and my home and work workstations both run instable but it's finally reached the point the backporting from sid to woody doesn't go clean anymore damn python21-* packages depend on python23 need newer cups which has lots of dependencies etc i *despise* doing this said I'd never run unstable in production but debian and their 2 year old stable distro wins, i give up jamest: I'm running testing at work right now (this machine) Seems pretty good. Except I got the mozilla packages form sid. i thought about testing as it almost works but has kde 2.2 still on it this box is an ltsp server for some xterms jamest: For the most part, sid is great. You just need to be very very careful when you update/upgrade. jamest: *Never* do a dist-upgrade blindly. jamest: Also, I like to "/msg apt news" in #debian before I do a major upgrade. good to know about that apt-get install apt-listbugs apt-listchanges those also good to install are also Ya, apt-listchanges dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.94.83.40) joined #gnuenterprise. what they do? list the changelogs and bug reports of the packages right before they're installed with apt also they mail the changelogs to you bugs not bug reports tell you what packages have how many bugs, etc. tells cool man, if I ever meet some people in person I am going to kick the shit out of them ;) Also, never do an apt-get clean or autoclean until you are sure everything is cool. certain people I should say particularly ams in #hurd Action: chillywilly does it all the time to save sapce space ;P Action: dcmwai is away: ... dsmith: ? what would that matter? so you don't lose old packages in case some are b0rked ah, i run thru apt-proxy I used to use that thing so have copies 1 machine away i have 30 linux box here and adding more apt-proxy is pure bliss in this setup yea, you need more ;) jamest: Yes, so you can get back to a pre-borked package. Somtimes you can get a good package from testing, but sometimes it only exists in your apt cache. Prime rule of system administration: Never make a change unless you can put it back. Action: jamest has a redundant fully functional woody server and once this is running i won't be upgrading hopefully until sarge is out if kde 3 doesn't make it from sid to sarge then I give up on debian Knoppix! dude i have 2 knoppix installs on hard drive because woody is so out of date dewd? newest dells have i845 chpisets that sid doesn't even support Grrrr.. mozilla crashed again. Printing is just lame. jamest: why don't you propose a method to coordinate thousands of volunteers better an then we can talk ;) did I bitch? jamest: What does lspci look like for those dells? ( I fear I have one) hang on (i guess i did bitch, but I'm bitter from the 1 year freeze on woody) this is probably the relevant part 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 82845G/GL [Brookdale-G] Chipset Host Bridge (rev 03) 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82845G/GL [Brookdale-G] Chipset Integrated Graphics Device (rev 03) Whew. knoppix can't handle the integrated nic on these systems either :( I have instabilites with usb. Machine locks up. 00:1f.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801BA/BAM USB (Hub #1) (rev 04) 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corp. 82801BA/BAM SMBus (rev 04) 00:1f.4 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801BA/BAM USB (Hub #2) (rev 04) i use it 00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB USB (Hub #1) (rev 02) 00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB USB (Hub #2) (rev 02) 00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB USB (Hub #3) (rev 02) 00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB USB EHCI Controller (rev 02) the most annoying thing about 2.4.x linux kernel is the damn thing does not do the proper interrupt or whatever to reboot my laptop...2.2.x works and so does the Hurd have a usb printer hooked to one w/o issues These are Dimension 2350 systems more importantly though did everyone get their linux licenses purchased? as we could just be wasting our fighting config issues Action: dsmith is *even* going to say anything lol :) good thing was that rms stated that the hurd could see release back in '02 which means it ought to be ready to go any day now alandd (~alandd@h-68-165-192-191.PHNDAZ91.covad.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" johannesX_ (~johannes@M1263P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. johannesX (~johannes@M1263P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 111 (Connection refused) jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: dcmwai is back (gone 01:06:34) jamest, Linux licenses??? what is that all about? a reference to SCO chillywilly, Never and ever... chillywilly, That are they after. something they don't own? anyone started to write a Howto on installing stuff on RH? for gnue i know that is simple, Just add a few more rpm and some changes on the connection.conf and tata :) I'll put the rpm files name here and also the change.. (Just for them to search on google) Install Gnuenterprise on Redhat 9 1. Get gnue :) 2. get wxPythonGTK RPM from http://www.wxpython.org/download.php 3. get py-xmlrpc RPM from http://sourceforge.net/projects/py-xmlrpc/ 4. After Install Gnue Goto /usr/local/gnue/etc edit connections.conf Change provider = psycopg To (redhat default postgresql connector) provider = PyGreSQL That is the only different. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Client exiting" lupo__ (~lupo@p5085F2B0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2, about the problem yesterday... you got any clue? gsoti (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-108-222.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1249P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "The more often you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets." Aria New homepage ... http://www.aria-erp.org :) Action: dcmwai is trying to make some Ad :) 07is now playing: 10(012/133) [Beethoven Radio on iM Radio - www.beethoven.com The Worlds Classical Radio Station] (stream/64kbps/22.1kHz) heh Nick change: gsoti -> gsoti_away chillywilly, what :) gsoti_away (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-108-222.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left irc: dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.94.83.40) got netsplit. tripz__ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) got netsplit. 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ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" gsoti_afk (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-108-222.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left #gnuenterprise. gsoti_afk (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-108-222.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. gsoti_afk (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-108-222.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left #gnuenterprise. gsoti (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-108-222.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee (~vin@cavok154.august.net) joined #gnuenterprise. tamas_ (~tamas@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@209-63-101-109.bras01.mdl.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon2371.tstt.net.tt) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) gsoti (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-108-222.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left #gnuenterprise. btami_ (~tamas@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. tamas_ (~tamas@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) reinhard (~reinhard@M1249P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee (~vin@cavok154.august.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection niyam (~niyam@203.94.204.105) joined #gnuenterprise. hi! anybody working on a financial accounts package based on gnuE? niyam (~niyam@203.94.204.105) left irc: Remote closed the connection Vee (~vin@cavok154.august.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee (~vin@cavok154.august.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection Vee (~vin@cavok154.august.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "Client exiting" Vee (~vin@cavok154.august.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection btami_ (~tamas@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) left irc: "Kliens kil�p" dsmith (~dsmith@mail.actron.com) left irc: "Client exiting" reinhard (~reinhard@M1249P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Reality is for people that lack imagination." jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. cacully (~ccullinan@cullnet.plus.com) joined #gnuenterprise. cacully (~ccullinan@cullnet.plus.com) left #gnuenterprise. stuq_ (~stuq@209-63-101-109.bras01.mdl.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. stuq_ (~stuq@209-63-101-109.bras01.mdl.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) ToyMan (~stuq@209-63-101-109.bras01.mdl.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) lxf (~knoppix@202.73.120.115) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) gsoti (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-95-132.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" hallo LuftHans: How do I get involved with GNUe gsoti: check out CVS, submit patches ;-) what interests you? what you you like to do with/for GNUe? Action: LuftHans is just the doorman. :) LH: slow down a bit, never participated in gnu anything.... gsoti: there are lots of ways to help. I always suggest helping in the areas that interest you or that you need. LH: Interested in the inventory or payroll pieces, or even helping with planning well, I want inventory working, so I could suggest that :) OTOH, there's a push to consolidate the accounting packages for GNUe Small Business do you know Python? LH: I have quite a bit of experience with Purchasing also LH: Just dwnlded Python, some exp with Java, C LH: I would need a some help with acctg, though I understand double entry, just don't make me create a cash flow statement :-) if you want to learn python you could help with the coding :) dmcwai is working on the accounting stuff right now. I think it's PHP-based, but they're working on a GNUe interface as well LH: I found some tutorials... do you have a recommendation for one? SachaS is working on an inventory system as is someone else. I believe that's mostly using GNUe rather than developing GNUe the forms doc is the main one I've been reading not complete and out of date, but it's a decent example of things you can do with GNUe LH: .... python tutorials... ah, I don't know python, so I can't help you there LH: okay on forms doc... I will take a look LH: I have been watching this channel.. I have some kids to get off too college soon, ... LH: but from what I observe, the pace is up to you... LH: s/too/to gsoti: usually that's the way Free Software projects go LH: ewkayyy.... looks like I will be learning a bit about CVS too ( I spelled it right that time :-) ) CVS isn't difficult, there are web and other GUI interfaces LH: ... good doorman... what country you located in? LH: :-) LH: curious... that is all... I noticed that people are from quite a number of diff country's I'm currently in the .us, but I've seen people from .de, .at, .au, .fr, .somewhere-asian I've only been hanging out for a couple of weeks, so I barely know what's going on where are you? LH: I have been reading the logs off and on as I could get time, picked the larger size files and read.... LH: for about 6 weeks.... LH: just outside of Chitown well, that explains part of the host name :) yup... Woodstock IL to be precise... LH: thanks for your direction... you hv my email?? nope gsotiroff@ameritech.net lamerittech? ;P I thought they all were changing their names to be "SBC" bah, FIBs ;) chilly: ya never know.... could be sumthun new tomorrow.. :-) chilly: slong as it woiks, ..... plz keep your slong to yourself ;) chilly: slang sling slong.... well I think I kanow what you mean... :-P sling slang slong... you should read the python tutorial on python.org slong slang sling.... chilly: will chk it out.... you're wearing out the ellipsis no one else will be able to use then ever again at the rate you're going ;) just taking them for a walk .......................... .............. ............. .............. chilly: ( after some thought gsoti remembers he was there... but likes the advice ) broke ,,,,, parse error: WTF is gsoti talking about ;P so you're a flat lander? chgd . -> , because it no longer works ,,, yup, bald too lol jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-129.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: chillywilly pokes jc *yoink* squeellll they are playing some trippy shit on scifi channel lol gsoti: I don't think I am too far from you what is the name of the t -- s Action: chillywilly is in WI ;) hmmm ,,, that could be whare you at dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ack um, hi derek whew.. it was 111F when I left the office today was like ~90 in the office V2: hello, hot? why such in the office? gsoti: not sure.. it's generally hot in the office I work in because of all the equipment, but today was unusual maybe it was my presence.. ;) u located in .us ?? Fort Worth, Texas Fort Worth.. yes that would explain- :-) Vee2d2: for me this summer has been unusually cool :-) derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Vee2d2: I was talking to LuftHans earlier Vee2d2: he is working with forms? gsoti: yea. working with as in trial-n-error self-taught learning course. Action: LuftHans is learning about forms, but not yet working with them :) er, uh what Vee2d2 said :) I think LuftHans is taking the best approach to learning it though, I'm doing the same.. only the forms I'm working on are in gnue-sb naps? they're the best method? in moderation well, moderation to the wind, I'm about to take another nap whuut?? Did I miss somehing... s/eh/eth gsoti: need a nap, too? :) gsoti: so I just skimmed over the backlog.. you have interests in inventory, payroll, purchasing, etc.. do you have a need right now, or is it just an interest? gsoti: I'm just not feeling well today and getting ready to take a second nap Vee2d2 interest in learning python, Vee2d2: I am luckily still employed! Vee2d2: so this is more of an active hobby, and gsotiroff (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-109-4.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. gsoti (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-95-132.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) gsoti: that's cool, I was just curious if you had some specific needs you were looking to have addressed by a project like gnue/gnue-sb Vee2d2: Sorry bout that, one of the kids did the right thing at the wrong time- Vee2d2: they powered down the DSL modem - they didn't know I was working downstairss :-) haha why would you power it down? Action: chillywilly leaves it all on 24/7 ;P I don't like it up all the time - lost a good computer to lightning surge because of that.. they do make surge protectors ya know ;) Vee2e2: I had one, but it was too much for the protector Vee2d2: It would be better with a UPS I think, but until I get one of them thare... Vee2d2: GNUe-- My interest is more on python, but I would like to also do some of the biz apps Vee2d2: what part are you working on hello? gsotiroff (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-109-4.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left #gnuenterprise. gsoti (~gsotiroff@adsl-68-72-109-4.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: Sacha_away -> SachaS hi hey wasup, as in why all the quite suddenly?? Action: gsoti gsoti is whistling now ( tee for 2...? ) cause people are busy shesh how many irc channels have you hung out in? plus lots of people are in the US here and it's getting late you know just this one yup well lost of times it will be dead in a channel ;)