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<jcater> well, I gave gnucash 6 weeks
<jcater> a good, hard 6 weeks
<jcater> and I admit it is powerful
<jcater> but, well, I'll leave it at that....
<jcater> plus the code is horrendous
<jcater> I'd love to help out w/a project like that
<jcater> I've been known to code before :)
<jcater> but, shit
<jcater> they brag about the # of lines of code
<jcater> I'd be ashamed of the # of lines of code, personally
<jcater> derek: I'm all for trying other types of bots
<jcater> I personally liked bigbrother when he was in troutslapping mode
<jcater> but then again, I'm biased
<jcater> :)
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<ToyMan> morning all
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<Vee2d2> morning ToyMan
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<ToyMan> hi Vee2d2
<ToyMan> what's your role in gnue?
<dcmwai> VIP :)
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<Vee2d2> http://jodrell.net/gnome-hacks/hacks.html?id=28
<Vee2d2> ^ wrt gnome2's menu system
<dcmwai> 07is now playing: 10(011/013) [Beethoven Radio on iM Radio - www.beethoven.com The Worlds Classical Radio Station] (stream/64kbps/22.1kHz)
<dcmwai> Hello Vee2d2
<dcmwai> the page seem to be very hard to me :)
Action: dcmwai cannot do that...
<dsmith> MMmmm.  Donuts.
<Vee2d2> dsmith: you buy? :)
<dsmith> They are right here, have one.
Action: dsmith hands Vee2d2 a krispy kreme
<dsmith> Vee2d2: No, I didn't buy. ;^)
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<derek> sigh i guess its definitely time to leave evolution
<derek> so sad really (gnome is getting worse everyday) ;(
<chillywi1ly> gnome sucks ;)
<dsmith> kde sucks too
<derek> i don't dislike kde
<derek> my big problem is i generally like gnome apps better
<derek> but the "environment" is going down hill
<derek> way too much m$'ism
<derek> gconf, bonobo etc
<derek> so i am torn
<derek> i want to be a good gnu guy, but its getting harder everyday
<jcater> you should cross over to the dark side
<jcater> with jamest, chillywi1ly, and I
<derek> 1. gnome is getting a lot of ximian influence (and frankly they are getting as bad as the Kompany (who seems to be less involved with KDE than before))
<jcater> or, as we like to think, cross over "from" the dark side and see the light :)
<derek> 2. thier environment is suffering evil doings
<derek> jcater: unfortunately this big gripe has to do with evolution (not gnome directly)
<jcater> I think you overestimate the impact of Kompany
<derek> i cant find a kde replacement :(
<jcater> I've been using KDE for a while now, and Kompany never comes up
<jcater> in discussion or otherwise
<derek> jcater: i dont... as i said.. "seems to be LESS involved with KDE than before"
<derek> about 3 years ago the Kompany to a large degree was the "future" of KDE
<derek> i.e. people were looking to them to build the applications that would usher in the adoption of KDE
<derek> now, i think that qt tool set license was fixed more poeple stepped up and shaun gordon said enough stupid things that Kompany to a large degree has died
<derek> unfortunately for gnome i think the opposite happened :(
<derek> ximian got cash
<derek> and hired most of the gnome developers and have pushed their bad ideologies down :(
Action: jcater wonders what'll change w/Novell buying out Ximian
<derek> yeah
<derek> i think i will try kde
<derek> brb
<derek> im probably gonna go to thunderbird/moz calendar
<derek> i just hate not having packages for them
<derek> guess its time to learn how to make debian packages for them :)
<derek> brb in kde mode
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<dsmith> In my experience, I've found that gnome was easier to "hack". To get it to do what you wanted.  Kde seems to make to fit into it's mold more.
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<derek> ok kde sound worked right away (yeah so much better than esd)
<derek> HOWEVER
<derek> no panels or menus????
<derek> i was able to get into desktop settings nad make a menu bar, but no panels
<derek> font in xchat are WAY jacked up
<derek> i suppose im missing some kde packages or something?  as on wifey's computer no problems w/ kde startup
<derek> is there something i should apt-get?
<derek> looks like i have kde 3.1
Action: derek would blow away all my kde settings but then would likely loose my kppp settings (for work) and im scared to do that :)
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> never heard of not having panels
<derek> jcater: it's me DEREK....
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<derek> you expect to have HEARD of the problems i encounter.....
<derek> btw i love konq (for file exploring), but still like galeon for web browsing
<derek> is there a way to make gnome apps use good fonts?
<derek> instead of whatever funky fonts its using
<derek> is it safe to upgrade in sid right now?
<jcater> afaik
<jcater> I'm using sid from yesterday
<derek> i think i have a package apt-changelogs or soemthing
<jcater> I don't know how to improve the GTK font issue
<jcater> other than I try to avoid GTK apps
<derek> apt-listbugs
<jcater> though I still have 2
<jcater> sylpheed and xchat
<derek> um problem i use almost all gnome apps
<derek> which is why i had been hanging onto gnome
<derek> i dont like feel/look of a lot of kde stuff
<dsmith> jcater: If your font's are too big for you, lie to X and tell it you are at 75 dpi instead of 100.
<derek> and its a comfort thing
<derek> though i do use kppp, konq and kmusicdb a lot :)
<derek> dsmith: thats i what i am doing
<dsmith> jcater: Sylpheed and xchat.  Yep.
<derek> however its not the size... its the look i dont like
<jcater> dsmith: yeah, I have decent fonts figured out for my GTK stuff
<jcater> but I wish it was as good as KDE's fonts
<jcater> :(
<jcater> well, sylpheed, xchat, and GNUe
<jcater> :(
<dsmith> I kept xchat on hold for a long time because the new gnome stuff was too ugly.
<derek> how did you do fonts for GTK stuff?
<jcater> um
<derek> as i will need to figure that out inorder to live under KDE (which i think im ready to do out of gnome frustration)
<jcater> my 2 gtk apps let me change fonts in their PReferences
<jcater> so that's what I did
<derek> jcater: ah
<derek> jcater: that changes the text in xchat window
<derek> BUT, not the menu's fonts and channel tabs etc... 
<jcater> :(
Action: jcater has never understood why GTK apps don't pick up the GTK settings
<jcater> that gnome has configured
<derek> i suppose i could live with that though
<derek> cause fscking gnome is all "registry" based
<derek> and kde developers are smart enough to stay the HELL away from it ;)
<derek> jcater: you should look at thunderbird (mail client for mozilla)
<derek> you might like it better than slypheed
<derek> and it has pretty cool ability to do extensions and stuff
<derek> sucks you have to get extension to do gnupg, but the extension is pretty cool
<jcater> I may
Action: derek needs to just package it and make the switch
<jcater> I actually don't like sylpheed
<derek> but even installing from source is very easy
<jcater> but I'm so used to its oddities
Action: derek will go bust some screenshots for you
<jcater> that going to something else is frustrating
<jamest> lol
<jcater> even though sylpheed frustrates me too 
<derek> as thats another downer... i couldnt SEE thunderbird before trying it... however, that might be a good plan
<derek> as it forced me to download it
<jamest> i think I own the netgear router talked about on /.
Action: jamest feels like a l33t h4x0r now
<jcater> wow
<chillywi1ly> I use galeon as my browser and konq as a file browser sometimes
Action: chillywi1ly is using kmail these days
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<derek> the cool thing is that thunderbird has some cool junkmail stuff
<derek> i like that you can sort mail by cool things
<derek> like filter it to ONLY people in your addressbook
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<jcater> cool
Nick change: dsmith_ -> dsmith
<jcater> I have pretty complex procmail filters on my imap server these days though'
<jcater> so doubt that'd benefit me
<jcater> but I might give that to my users
<jcater> I have all my windows machines running Mozilla Mail now
<dsmith> I've been using mozilla 1.4 for email lately.  I'm very impressed!
<dsmith> I imagine that thuderbord is similar.
<derek> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/thunderbird_main_screen.png
<derek> jcater: its nice for things that "skip through"
<derek> i filter on IMAP folder side so dont have huge use for it
<jcater> is that a source install?
<derek> yeah
<jcater> :(
<derek> not cvs or compile though
<derek> er not source install
<derek> its a tarball
<derek> so binary install
<derek> most of the stuff is javascript so not a ton to compile anyhow
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<derek> basically grab the tarball and unpack it
<derek> and run ./thunderbird
<jcater> gack
<derek> pretty simple, just a bit more messy than i like
<jcater> that's scary
<derek> its much more responsive than old mozilla mail
<derek> wtf
<derek> is debian down or what
<derek> probably at least 60 packages missing from apt-get upgrade
<derek> Err http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main passwd 1:4.0.3-9
<derek>   404 Not Found [IP: 35.9.37.225 80]
<derek> Err http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main procps 1:3.1.11-2
<derek>   404 Not Found [IP: 35.9.37.225 80]
<derek> Err http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main base-config 1.69
<derek>   404 Not Found [IP: 35.9.37.225 80]
<derek> Err http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main libbonobo-activation4 1:2.2.4-1
<derek>   404 Not Found [IP: 35.9.37.225 80]
<derek> Err http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main bonobo-activation 1:2.2.4-1
<derek>   404 Not Found [IP: 35.9.37.225 80]
<derek> Err http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main buici-clock 0.4.2
<derek>   404 Not Found [IP: 35.9.37.225 80]
<derek> for example
<chillywi1ly> bah
<derek> but an apt-get update finds that server
<chillywi1ly> silly flooder
<derek> there used tot be a frelling package to list servers close to you that would update your sources.list 
<chillywi1ly> apt-get -f install
<derek> anyone know that program?
<derek> chillywi1ly: that seems dangerous
<chillywi1ly> nope
<derek> netselect
<derek> hmmm gtk-sources... that looks interesting
<Vee> apt-spy I think, derek.. 
<Vee> apt-spy - writes a sources.list file based on bandwidth tests
<Vee> and I think http.us.d.o is probably a round robbin, so maybe the packages you're requesting just havent been fully mirrored yet.. 
<Vee> that, or you havent updated in a long time and they've since been purged.. ;)
<jcater> netselect-apt does too
<Vee> so.. T-10 minutes until the SoBig worm starts downloading it's mysterious payload?
<Vee> I'm curious, if they know it's going to download 'something' from somewhere.. how is it they dont know what?
<jcater> bah
<jcater> thunderbird does the same insane thing w/imap
<jcater> as a lot of others do
<jcater> which is why I end up going back to sylpheed
<jcater> it doesn't check imap subfolders for new mail
<derek> jcater: that is my friggin gripe with it
<derek> evolution did check sub folders
<derek> i think there is a setting to fix it
<derek> but havent fully explored
<derek> Vee i havent upgraded in a long time
<chillywi1ly> sid is kinda broke
<jcater> I dunno
<Vee> not broked here
<jcater> still kind of sluggish
<derek> uh.. i hope netselect-apt doesnt wipe my sources.list file completely
<chillywi1ly> well according the the bigs glibc won't install
<jcater> it would
<jcater> you need to back it up
<chillywi1ly> bugs list
<derek> jcater: crikey
<chillywi1ly> I held off upgrading again yesterday
<Vee> chillywi1ly, that scared me too.. but I finally just let it go through and didnt have any probs here or at home
<chillywi1ly> apt-listbugs told me some scary things
<chillywi1ly> ah
<chillywi1ly>  I dunno
Action: Vee is a gamblin man.. ;)
<chillywi1ly> I can blame jbailey ;)
<derek> Vee: i guess i am too likely it will hose me up
<chillywi1ly> he packages glibc
<derek> jcater: i might try slphyeed again... last time i loved it
<derek> BUT it went through some funky imap changes
<derek> that made it SOOOO slow  i couldnt handle it :)
<Vee> derek, well it's always a good idea to issue  an apt-get update prior to upgrading so you know you're going to be getting the latest stuffs..
<derek> i did do an apt-get update
<Vee> ahh... k
<derek> yeah
<derek> neselect-apt
<derek> plus new apt-get update
<derek> plus new apt-get upgrade
<derek> seems to have found those missing packages
<derek> yummmy kde has kool feature :)
<derek> background by desktop... multiple backgrounds switching on time scale... and other cool background tricks
<derek> now if i can get a darned panel we might be in business 
<jcater> try manually running "kicker" from an xterm session
<derek> roflmao
<derek> its there
<derek> it was MINIMIZED
Action: jcater thwaps derek
<jcater> now you're just acting like one of my users
<derek> i noticed the top bar disappared everytime i would configure desktop... i would get it back by clicking on where it used to be
<derek> made me think... hey mabye its like windows where you have to touch edge of bottom to get it to pop up
<derek> so went to bottom and arrows came up and had to resize panel
<derek> jcater: fwiw you cant do that in gnome (which i have used for 3 years) so i didnt think it was a "possibility"
<derek> as i would expect a hidden panel to have a little nip showing on left or right side
<derek> i okay im officially switched to kde :)
<derek> at least for a bit
<derek> you cant put things (applets) on the top menu bar?
<jcater> dunno
<jcater> I don't have/use a top menu bar
<jcater> so don't know what it does
<jcater> sorry :(
<derek> just menus
<derek> probably not too useful
<derek> in gnome it could do some cool things
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<derek> hmmm need my gweather equivalent :)
<jcater> kweather?
<derek> prolly
<derek> waiting for my upgrade to finish so i can go find neat new k apps :)
<derek> i like their pager and thier task mangager much better
<jcater> I didn't mean to phrase that as a question
<derek> and the desktop configure stuff is better
<derek> must be someway to fix the fonts for gtk using kde...
<jcater> if you find a way, lemme know
<chillywi1ly> my schoolmate wrote kweather
<chillywi1ly> Ian Geiser
<jcater> cool
<jcater> I wish it'd let you customize what info is displayed on the applet
<chillywi1ly> I wonder if he is still maintaing it
<derek> dood kde usability is 10,000 times better
<derek> no editing gconfig crap
<derek> no command like
<chillywi1ly> gconf is shit
<derek> just check the friggin box on control center
<chillywi1ly> kde is definitely the hacker's desktop
<chillywi1ly> it has all the options
<chillywi1ly> whereas gnome removed it all
<chillywi1ly> and you have to use gconf-editor
<chillywi1ly> lame
<jcater> if I get one more "Your message was undeliverable... it was infected" message
<jcater> from some damn piss-poorly configured virus scanner
<jcater> I'm going to start hurting something
<chillywi1ly> heheh
<chillywi1ly> I like the robot jones cartoon
<derek> yes yes yes... edge flipping again... this is one switch that pissed me off with gnome 2 :)
Action: derek notes jcater could start hurting the gnome dev team if he must hurt things ;)
<derek> desktop sharing?
<derek> does kde have vnc built into its desktop or what? i like the concept... 
<jcater> built-in vnc
<Vee> hmm.. I'm about to pass out.. guess I'll take my work home.. 
<jamest> sorta built in
<jamest> krfb is the client
<jamest> er, server
<jamest> krdc is client
<jamest> krdc works with other vnc servers (like winvnc)
Action: derek is creaming himself with the stuff in the kde config 
<jcater> you use cups, right?
<derek> everything that is a pain in gnome is how it should be in that control center
<derek> oh yeah
<jcater> kde integration with cups is amazing
<derek> and i just got to that
<derek> in the control center
<derek> can view jobs and crap inline
Action: derek wonders why you all didnt make me use kde earlier
<derek> 3.1 is leaps and bounds above even 3.0
<jcater> you can lead a jackass to water
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<jamest> it's not like we didn't try
<jcater> but you can't make him drink
<jcater> err, I mean horse
<jamest> jcater: exactly
<jcater> :)
<jamest> oh, wait, you mean horse
<jamest> then not exactly
<chillywi1ly> haha
<jamest> you know of course derek will now break kde 
<jamest> I'm guessing 10 minutes
<chillywi1ly> heheh
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<chillywi1ly> install lisa and you can do the network browsing thing
<chillywi1ly> it rocks
<jcater> konqueror rocks
<jcater> derek: try this
<jcater> in konqueror
<jcater> type fish://derek@ash.gnuenterprise.org/
<chillywi1ly> :)
<jcater> you can browse scp/ssh "shares" w/in konqueror
<jcater> the other day, I had one konqueror w/ scp open
<jcater> and another accessing a Win98 samba share
<jcater> and click-and-dragged my users file to the web server
<derek> jcater: dont be teasing me
<jcater> ?
<jcater> I didn't really mean you were a jackass
<jcater> it was a euphemism
<jcater> *snicker*
<derek> rofl
<derek> oh fish is SWEET
<derek> is there a list of commands like that?
<derek> as i think gg: or somethign does google etc
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<jcater> gg: google
<jcater> ggg: google groups
<jcater> dict:  dictionary
<jcater> um
<chillywi1ly> sftp://, smb://, 
<jcater> I set up gnue:
<jcater> so gnue:designer/src/Designer.py
<jcater> will translate to savannah's viewcvs
<derek> smb seems silly fi you mount your drives already
<derek> jcater: interesting
<derek> if you can make your own i will make some for imdb and allmusic guide
<derek> if they dont exist already
<jcater> Settings | Configure Konqueror | Web Shortcuts
<jcater> that'll show you all the default ones
<jcater> and let you add new ones
<derek> jcater: i think that i fgured out the thunderbird check imap folders
<derek> if you right click on a folder
<derek> and choose properties
<derek> you can check the "check this folder for new messages" icon
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> that's cool
<derek> the suck thing is you have to do it for each folder (no global setting)
<jcater> but kinda odd at the same time
Action: jcater would've defaulted that to true
<derek> i think its smart to not do it by default and allow to change
<derek> BUT there should be a global setting
<derek> actually i could argue decently what the default would be either way
<derek> just needs to be a global way to toggle as well as at the folder level
<jcater> wtf is with the defaults to send replies as attachments?
<jcater> I guess I'm just old skewl
<jcater> but I have to change that on all my mozilla installs
<jcater> and thunderbird defaults that way too
<derek> i hate that too
<chillywi1ly> I don't like replies as attachments either
<derek> but every mail program i have touched lately does that :(
<jcater> yeah, I know
<jcater> I just don't get it
<derek> its oneof the first things i change
<derek> is because we are 'inline' commenters
<derek> most people are friggin top posters now a days
<derek> so its easier for them to make a message an attachment and comment on it
<derek> that forward with comments inline
<derek> or something
<jcater> survex - Cave surveying and mapping software
<jcater> man
<jcater> debian has everything
<jcater> though, saying something like "I'm exploring pretty deep with my survex tool" might get you slapped
Action: jcater ducks from the rotten tomatos
<derek> rofl
<derek> will have to convert wifey over to kde sometime soon
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<siesel> hi
<chillywi1ly> yo
<derek> is there a way to make additional pannels in kde?
<chillywi1ly> yes...
<derek> i.e. if i wanted to make a top panel
<derek> chillywi1ly: how?
<chillywi1ly> trying to find it
<chillywi1ly> ;)
<chillywi1ly> rick click the panel
<chillywi1ly> panel menu
<chillywi1ly> add
<chillywi1ly> nope
<chillywi1ly> that's not it
<chillywi1ly> nm
<chillywi1ly> bah
<chillywi1ly> oh wait
<chillywi1ly> you cna pick child panel from extensions
<chillywi1ly> you can pick external taskbar too
<siesel> derek, jcater, jamest: do we have any policy about translations? I.e. do translators need a asignement?
<siesel> I think, i asked some time ago, but I can't remember :)
<jcater> that's a derek question
<jcater> I don't know
<siesel> derek?
<derek> imho we dont need assignment
<derek> as worse case we lose the translation
<derek> but the source work is the important thing
<siesel> ok.
Action: derek thinks its 'wise' to get assignment as if they want to ever do more than translations we are covered
<siesel> derek: its about the large gnue.po translation diff, which someone posted to the mailing list 
<siesel> I think, I will commit his changes and invite him to further join our team and get an assignement :)
<derek> chillywi1ly: i got that child panel tot works
<chillywi1ly> cool
<chillywi1ly> is it what you wanted?
<chillywi1ly> I never use more than one panel
<chillywi1ly> need the screen realestate
<derek> yip
<derek> problem is i dont like 'menus' 
<chillywi1ly> me either
<derek> so i like icons for everything i use REGULARLY
<chillywi1ly> buttons are better ;)
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<derek> and i dont like anythign on my desktotp
<chillywi1ly> me either
<chillywi1ly> I have the default 3 icons
<derek> so like stuff i use a LOT as big buttons and desktop switcher etc down on big bottom panel
<derek> then a tiny hideable panel at the top with all my regular icons
<derek> gweather, gdict applet and other applets
<jcater> riiiiiight
<jcater> big buttons (non-hiding) --> email, web, etc
<jcater> tiny buttons (hiding) --> various pr0n programs/links
<jcater> so wife won't find them
<jcater> you can be honest w/us
<chillywi1ly> heh
<chillywi1ly> links to some vids
<chillywi1ly> etc. ;)
<derek> bummer kweather has ugly display and doesnt allow you to configure in Farenheit
Action: chillywi1ly hurls the source code at derek 
<chillywi1ly> you know you wanna do C++
<jcater> yeah, I'm not too impressed w/the visual aspects of kweather
<jcater> but then again
<jcater> I work in an office 
<chillywi1ly> I'm not sure it is still maintained
<jcater> and don't get out much
<jcater> so I suppose it's irrelevant to me
<derek> my quick assessment is that gnome is prettier in some respects
<derek> than kde desktop (crisper images and such)
<derek> however kde is 10,000 more usable
<chillywi1ly> you can change icon sets
<derek> i.e. configurable w/o having ot read oodles of docs
<chillywi1ly> you can make the screen lickably pretty ;)
<jcater> true dat
<jcater> but wife walked in and saw that background
<jcater> and got very upset
<chillywi1ly> haha
<derek> well only because you were licking the screen ;)(
<jcater> possibly
<jcater> geeze
<jcater> gnu's mailservers are running 2 days behind
<chillywi1ly> she was wondering why you weren't licking her?
<derek> chillywi1ly: they are married
<derek> are you insane?
<jcater> no kidding
<chillywi1ly> I don't get this we're married so no more sex thing
<derek> wondered why he had enough time to lick the screen, but didnt have time to take out the trash, mow the lawn and change the oil on the car
<jcater> stuff like that stopped on our wedding night
<chillywi1ly> where did those kids come from derek? the stork? ;)
<derek> mailman?
<chillywi1ly> haha
<jcater> nah
<jcater> poolman
Action: jcater may temporarily break designer
<jcater> if people want a usable one tonight, might want to cvs update now
<chillywi1ly> eh...
<chillywi1ly> who needs stability
<chillywi1ly> that's no fun
<nickr> stability!?
<chillywi1ly> wassat?
<derek> hmmm how broken?
Action: derek needs to really test those 0.5.1 releases before my class
<derek> i suspect thye are tagged so if need patching cna go backwards
Action: chillywi1ly wishes he could attend
Action: jcater too
<jcater> I'd like to sit in the back of the class
<jcater> and snicker at derek
<jcater> for no good reason
<chillywi1ly> of course
<chillywi1ly> we can be the hecklers
<jcater> we could ask dumb questions
<jcater> "Why python?"
<jcater> "Why not use Mozilla's XUL?"
<chillywi1ly> lol
<chillywi1ly> why not Java?
<chillywi1ly> why isn't it a web app?
Action: derek is glad you all cant come :)
<chillywi1ly> can I use mysql?
<jcater> "I prefer glade"
<chillywi1ly> lol
<jamest> will it run on CP/M?
<chillywi1ly> "where do I enter my invoices"?
<derek> we plan on a CP/M release as soon as we get the bug in the dr. dos version resolved
<derek> it does come in blue
<chillywi1ly> Why not merge with Compiere?
<jcater> is GNUe dead?
<jcater> "nah... just smells like it"
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<alandd> derek:  Are you live here?
<derek> yeah
<derek> tired as all get out but here
<derek> just laid down on floor to catch some zzzz's looked up and saw your flagging me down ":)
<alandd> Oh good.  I was just typing an email.  Workshop problem has been avoided.
<alandd> Jason at Elite PC emailed me and we talked on the phone.  Someone had scheduled a tournament to happen at the Lan Center the same time as the gnue workshop.
<alandd> He was mad.
<alandd> I told him that if the tournament was put on, we would have to find another venue.
<alandd> He went to bat for us and got them to move the tournament "at another location" and the workshop time is still ours.
<derek> doh
<derek> next time call me :)
<alandd> Maybe I should have just not told you since we are still in, but I was just about to raise a warning flag when Jason emailed back with the good news that we are still there.
<derek> as i woudl have rather let them do the tourney and adjust the class :)
<derek> but if they switched things around we are good
<derek> hope to send out final 'you are scheduled' emails tonight or early tomorrow
<alandd> I told him taht we did not want to dent their revenue but he insisted that they should honor the commitment to do the class.
<alandd> I know the people that I got to register are anxious for confirmation.
<alandd> That is all the news I have.  Do you have anything I can help with?  Make slides?  Print stuff?
Action: alandd Looking for Derek's phone number...
<alandd> email me your contact info.  If i have it, i have misplaced it. :^(  I'll only use it on a "have to" basis.
<derek> well if i was on the ball
<derek> last month i would have had you put the flyer in elite pc 
<derek> to hopefully get people outside PLUG to attend
<derek> now its a bit late
<alandd> I sent jason the announcement and link earlier.
<derek> sigh there has to be a way to fix fonts for gtk apps in kde
<derek> i cant handle this
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<derek> but i really like kde :(
<alandd> It is my preference also.
<derek> is there a kde channel somewhere
<alandd> yes, I used it once.  Thinking....
<alandd> Im' coming up empty.  Maybe it was a more general linux or redhat channel.  sorry.
<alandd> all i can find are mail lists.
<alandd> catch your zzzz's.  sorry i interupted.  I must be going too.
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<derek> yes score...
Action: derek loves google
<derek> if you create a file .gtkrc-2.0 in your home dir
<derek> and add
<derek> gtk-font-name = "Fontname PtSize"
<derek> it works
<derek> oh yes... 
Action: derek does the kde happy dance
<jcater> cool
<jcater> man, googling while laying on the floor napping
<jcater> I'm impressed
<derek> ok fish:// is just bad ass
<derek> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/screenshots/thunderbird_main_screen.png (before font fix)
<derek> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/screenshots/thunderbird_main_screen_new_font.png (after font fix)
<jcater> nice
<jcater> what
<jcater> what's your gtk-font-name line?
Action: jcater wants to try this out
<derek> i downloaded some custom fonts from Nimbus so i have
<derek> gtk-font-name = "Nimbus Sans 12"
<derek> but i tested with tried and true
<derek> gtk-font-name = "Arial 12"
<derek> and it looked MUCH better
<derek> than the default
<jcater> bah
<jcater> not working for me
<jcater> this is role reversal
<derek> you made file .gtkrc-2.0 in your home dir
<derek> added line
<derek> gtk-font-name = "Arial 12"
<derek> saved itt
<jcater> $ cat ~/.gtkrc-2.0
<jcater> gtk-font-name = "Helvetica 12"
<derek> then restarted some gnome2 application
<derek> try "Arial 12"
<jcater> tried Helvetica, Arial, and Nimbus San
<jcater> (I have nimbus stuff too)
<derek> to start with (though Helvetica should be there)
<derek> you sure you are trying a gnome2 app
<jcater> thunderbird
<derek> ah
<derek> odd
Action: jcater tries some other fonts
Action: derek goes to restart xchat brb
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<chillywi1ly> I doubt thunderbird will honor gtk2 font settings
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<jcater> how bizarre
<jcater> xchat is honoring the change
<jcater> thunderbird is not
<jcater> is there an equivalent like for ~/.gtkrc ?
<chillywi1ly> probably the js prefs and you have to turn on setting for XUL
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<chillywi1ly> just like configuring the UI for firebird
<chillywi1ly> a PITA
<derek> um jcater there is
<derek> i think its .gtkrc
<derek> odd that thunderbird isnt using it
<derek> as im using thunderbird and it recongized the change
Action: derek is very happy now... time to go get blockbuster moives
<chillywi1ly> were you off today?
<derek> working from home
<chillywi1ly> riiiight ;)
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<jcater> fwiw, I've branched designer cvs for my breakage
<jcater> so cvs head will still run until I'm done
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<derek> jcater: busting it up that bad eh :)
<nickr> blah
--- Sat Aug 23 2003