alandd (~alandd@h-68-166-243-76.PHNDAZ91.covad.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) left irc: "Client exiting"
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) joined #gnuenterprise.
<SachaS> another customer, vendor, inventory system, non-free system with rather simple and nice web interface.
<SachaS> url: http://www.sysbotz.com/products/simpledata/index.htm
<SachaS> has a demo up
R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon599.tstt.net.tt) left irc: 
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) left irc: Remote closed the connection
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) joined #gnuenterprise.
dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise.
someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
Nick change: SachaS -> SachaDinner
someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) joined #gnuenterprise.
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) left irc: Remote closed the connection
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) joined #gnuenterprise.
dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise.
lupo_ (lupo@pD9542387.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) left irc: "Client exiting"
dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
Nick change: SachaDinner -> SachaS
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.60.237) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Vee2d2> someone remember to take the secret camera teddy bear
tripz_ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) left irc: Remote closed the connection
tripz_ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dcmwai> Vee2d2, Har? to where?
<SachaS> Vee2d2 yep :)
<Vee2d2> dcmwai: derek's class today
<SachaS> Vee2d2 when does it start?
<dcmwai> SachaS, Where are you all going?
<dcmwai> Ah...
<Vee2d2> I dont recall, SachaS
<SachaS> Vee2d2 is it Saturday or Sunday?
<Vee2d2> today
<dcmwai> happy having class
<Vee2d2> saturday
<Vee2d2> iirc anyway
<dcmwai> Well, You all must edit the video and let me have a copy :) so that I know who are you guys :)
<havoc> Holy freakin Harleys
Action: havoc notes that Milwaukee is currently the largest biker rally/parade in history
<havoc> they said there are over 130 international H.O.G. chapters in the parade
<havoc> 1500+ total
<havoc> amazing
Action: dcmwai is away: time to go... BRB
<chillywilly> hey havoc 
<havoc> chillywilly: you watching chan 6 at all?
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> I am now
<havoc> it's unbelievable
Action: dneighbo is stressing to get everything ready
<dneighbo> i think i have it mostly setup
<chillywilly> GNUe training day?
<dneighbo> yeah
<dneighbo> designer is very expiremental :(
<havoc> http://newsforge.com/newsforge/03/08/30/1433255.shtml?tid=23
<havoc> funny stuff :)
<dneighbo> which is ouchie because its so crucial to workshop
<dneighbo> but i dont want to go to 0.5.0
<dneighbo> cause there are so many more features in 0.5.1
<chillywilly> you just now tried it?
<chillywilly> *NOW*
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: chillywilly harassing derek some
<dneighbo> well been playing with it on and off all week
<dneighbo> but really beating it now
<dneighbo> but not exactly anyone having time to fix in last week anyhow (plus it is released)
<chillywilly> just tell 'em it's an extra "feature" ;)
<dneighbo> no way to get fixes and do a release in 5 days
<dcmwai> hey my designer is having problem ... 
<dcmwai> [dcmwai@dcmwaisrv bin]$ gfdes --debug 15
<dcmwai> Traceback (most recent call last):
<dcmwai>   File "/share/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/Designer.py", line 382, in ?
<dcmwai>     Designer().run()
<dcmwai>   File "/share/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/Designer.py", line 92, in __init__
<dcmwai>     wxApp.__init__(self,0)
<dcmwai>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1802, in __init__    _wxStart(self.OnInit)
<dcmwai>   File "/share/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/Designer.py", line 102, in OnInit
<dcmwai>     from base.startup import Startup
<dcmwai> ImportError: No module named startup
<dcmwai> any hints?
<chillywilly> yeek
<dcmwai> chillywilly,  YES...
ajmitch (~ajmitch@wlg1-port26.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<Vee2d2> did dcmwai tell you guys his name translates to 'Derek' ?
<dcmwai> Vee2d2, No.. Never..
<Vee2d2> :)
<dcmwai> I'll not be "Derek" here
<Vee2d2> there can be only one.
<dcmwai> Because Derek is responsible for anything that is wrong.
<chillywilly> lol
<chillywilly> is ti possible to release something under the GPL for everyone else EXCEPT a certain organization/company/individual? ;)
alandd (~alandd@h-68-166-243-76.PHNDAZ91.covad.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> if you are the copyright holder
<dneighbo> absolutely
<havoc> chillywilly: yes
<chillywilly> HEHEH
<dneighbo> if you are not the copyright holder then no
<havoc> the author can license it any way he/she wants
<dneighbo> or at least not without copyright holder's permission
<dneighbo> havoc: "author" is a bad word
<havoc> dneighbo: shorter than "copyright holder" ;)
<dneighbo> you need to use legal term copyright holder
<dneighbo> as often the author is not the cpright holder
<chillywilly> eh, I undestood what he meant
<alandd> LuftHans and dneighbo: For the workshop today: I forgot the projector at work!  Do we really need it?
<dneighbo> i know just saying you have to be careful with that phrase
<dneighbo> alandd: yeah i think we will need it
<havoc> dneighbo: I also call "OpenSource/FreeSoftware" "OpenStuff" now
<dneighbo> as they do not have a way to "teach" other than that
<chillywilly> FSF should give permission to exclude SCO from all it's (C) software
<dneighbo> unless i walk from person to person
<havoc> with GPL'd stuff the "author" usually is the "copyright holder"
<alandd> OK.  I'll go pick it up but that means I may be a little late.  I'll push it, though!
<dneighbo> chillywilly: that goes against the "spirit" of the GPL
<dneighbo> alandd: thanks
<chillywilly> dneighbo: I know but I am feeling evil
<havoc> dneighbo: basically I'm just getting sick of always typing everything out
Action: dneighbo has to run now and get my stuff fixed
dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: "Bye Bye"
<chillywilly> havoc: FOSS is shortest ;)
Action: havoc is getting lazy
alandd (~alandd@h-68-166-243-76.PHNDAZ91.covad.net) left irc: Client Quit
<havoc> chillywilly: but acronymns don't always help the uninformed
<chillywilly> oh well
R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon3079.tstt.net.tt) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Vee2d2> http://www.root.cz/data/sco.txt
<chillywilly> HEH
<lupo_> SCO Unix is also open. great idea havoc.
<chillywilly> no arguing in here ;)
<lupo_> not arguigung, just fact-telling
<lupo_> SCO _Open_Server
<lupo_> hm?
<chillywilly> I think FOSS should be used more and if they are clueless then you can expand it for them ;)
<chillywilly> bye
<chillywilly> this should cut down on the amount one types
<chillywilly> bye for real
tripz_ (~ville@as13-5-6.ld.bonet.se) left irc: Client Quit
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.60.237) left irc: "Client exiting"
der (~lufthans@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<der> moin, moin
<der> revDeke is preachin
Nick change: der -> ClassHans
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
alandd_ (~alandd@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ClassHans> hey alandd
<alandd_> Hey.  Nice sermon so far.
Nick change: ClassHans -> dh
<dh> :)
Nick change: dh -> lh
<SachaS> its 2.42am, why am I still programming ? :)
<alandd_> There it is, the dream of a full user infrastructure.  Here's hoping this workshop is the start of that.
<alandd_> 11:42 here  ;^)
<lh> SachaS: because it won't be time for bed for another 4 hours?
<SachaS> alandd_ is that morning?
<alandd_> yep.  In Arizona, USA.
<SachaS> lh :) probably
<SachaS> alandd_ when does the workshop start?
<lh> SachaS: yes, blame derek for me having to get up early like this
<alandd_> lh: early?!?
<SachaS> ok workrave break :)
Action: alandd_ I got to sleep in this morning.
<SachaS> i start to like workrave - be more productive with having more breaks :)
<lh> alandd_: yeah, we shouldn't be up for another couple of hours
<lh> workrave?
<SachaS> workrave locks my screen for 10 mins so I have to take a break :)
<lh> lots of colors, loud music, and drugs while working?
<alandd_> SachaS: You really like that?  I looked at it and was wondering if I could handle the forced breaks.
<alandd_> lh: workrave.org
<SachaS> irc flashing, no sound (except aircon), some work left to get completed.
<lh> that would drive me nuts
<SachaS> alandd_ sort of like it. as you then have a break. get up and think: what the hell am i doing here
<SachaS> and then you can focus again
<SachaS> ok.
<alandd_> can you disable the forced break.  like just a reminder?
<SachaS> alandd_ yes you can
<alandd_> hmm.. I'll have to look at it again.  :^]
Nick change: SachaS -> Sacha_forced_to_
<alandd_> lh: is LuftHans your client at home?  Keeping a log, are you?
<lh> alandd_: actually, I don't log #gnuenterprise since it's publicly logged, but I'm lazy and stay logged in, so I can use scrollback :)
<lh> normally I'd just log in and connect to my screen session, but a shared account is not secure, so I'm not sshing from here.
jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-086-142.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<alandd_> the GNUe Traffic links on the gnue web site are broken.
Nick change: Sacha_forced_to_ -> SachaS
<SachaS> how are you Antilles?
<SachaS> wrong channel
jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-086-142.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client exiting"
<lh> Mahlzeit
Action: alandd_ is away: Lunch time!
btami (~btami@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
[15:01] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
btami (~btami@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon3079.tstt.net.tt) left irc: 
Nick change: tamas -> btami
derek (~dneighbo@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: alandd_ is back (gone 01:00:35)
<alandd_> Here we go back from lunch and now getting into the meat of it.
<chillywilly> man I wish I was there ;)
<chillywilly> can someone forward heckle^H^H^H^Hquestions to derek for me? ;)
<SachaS> alandd_ is it about to start?
<SachaS> chillywilly :)
<SachaS> can we take part in the class as remote visitors?
<chillywilly> I think it would be cool if we had irc "classes"...I think someone mentioned something like that but I forget what they called it
<chillywilly> I think they just called it some irc training session...
<chillywilly> not as good as in person though ;)
<SachaS> yep.
<SachaS> or having gnomemeeting video conference
<SachaS> or video streaming from a demo
<SachaS> :)
<chillywilly> that's be cool but not very useful unless we had some kick butt whiteboard software
<SachaS> would be cool to "listen" in today
<SachaS> or to "watch" in
<SachaS> just to get a feel of what level this happens
<chillywilly> yea, that would be cool
<chillywilly> I am surprised derek didn't find a way to stream the video or audio ;)
<alandd_> SachaS: When I remember, I'll make comments into the channel.  We are all cranking up the designer right now.
<SachaS> maybe the next time
<SachaS> alandd_ cool
<lh> I tried to arrange video taping, but it didn't work
<SachaS> lh :(
<lh> actually, video digitizing :)
<chillywilly> ah well
<SachaS> maybe if you guys make notes .. might end up in some docs
<chillywilly> that would kick ass if you do get it working next time
<lh> I've got some notes, but nothing of import thus far
<chillywilly> does derek have "notes" that people could follow and pretend that they were there? ;)
<alandd_> no, he did not publishing anything for this.
<lh> he's moved from presentation to walking through gfd
<chillywilly> blah
<alandd_> flying by the seat of his pants, he is.
<SachaS> kick ass yes: FOSS project uses all media to communicate :)
<alandd_> Block editor is blah blah blah.
Action: alandd_ probably needs more detail than that.
<SachaS> alandd_ did it start?
<SachaS> your comments life?
<SachaS> :)
<alandd_> did what start?
<alandd_> yes, we are digging into the designer right now.
<lh> alandd_: let's see if we can get notes on his discriptions as the site doesn't have that
<SachaS> cool
<alandd_> lh: notes here?
<lh> alandd_: yeah, we've got vi :)
<alandd_> I meant here in chat.
<lh> alandd_: ah, no, I mean in text files that we can turn into semi-real docs later
<alandd_> I assume that someone here in the channel is logging this, right?
<alandd_> lh: good idea.
<lh> alandd_: this channel is publicly logged, it's on the site somewhere
<alandd_> Discussing connections.conf now.
mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<SachaS> ok.
<alandd_> host can use any URI.  Cool.
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left irc: Client Quit
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<alandd_> location is /usr/local/gnue/etc/connections.conf in redhat that we are running here
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left irc: Client Quit
<alandd_> This conference is running 15+ workstations on ONE LTSP server.  The server is an athalon 1.3ghz with a 100Mb net connection.  LTSP is impressive.
<alandd_> Now discussing /usr/local/gnue/etc/gnue.conf
<alandd_> Lots of configuration options available there.  Change the splash screens even!
<alandd_> key bindings are configurable.
<lh> that location is from installing from source rather than installing from deb
<alandd_> good tip.
<lh> rpm packages should also put stuff in /etc/gnue, don't know if they do, but they should :)
<alandd_> I have only installed from source so I don't know.
<lh> we need to get the CVS update script up on the web site
<alandd_> He is plugging the IRC for help during installs.  Claims he can do redhat well and debian should be smooth.  Someone asked about slackware.
<lh> Same person will probably follow up with a *BSD question :)
reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
<alandd_> Get the python version of wxWindows, not the c++ or other version
reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: alandd_ don't let my running comments drown other uses in the channel
<chillywilly> the resident LTSP guru here told me all LTSP is some scripts that setup XDMCP ;)
<lh> trigger happy, trigger happy
<alandd_> I guess I should ahve pointed to LTS.  LTSP sure makes it easy!
Action: chillywilly just runs this from the shell: X :1 -dpi 100 -query gandalf vt8
<alandd_> in the designer, remember, "triggers" are really AKA "events" because of various political and historical reasons.  don't get confused thinking that what the designer calls triggers are DB triggers.  They are form events.
<chillywilly> man my phone number must be close to this pizza place's number
<chillywilly> someone just asked me if they could order a large sausage special
<alandd_> did you tell them yes?
<chillywilly> and before that some guy asked me if this was some pizza place...the name escapes me now
<chillywilly> haha
<chillywilly> yea I am going to start taking orders ;)
<lh> http://www.lyricattack.com/w/weirdalyankoviclyrics/triggerhappylyrics.html
<alandd_> That's what I do for random ringing phones only I answer and place an order.  Once in a while I pass a pay phone that is ringing.  I always answer and order a large anchovie(sp?) pizza.  reactions on the other end are pretty funny.
<alandd_> OOOooo  the schema navigator.....
<lh> we're doing the zipcode form
<chillywilly> hmmm, maybe I should insyall LTSP although I am running KDE remotely right now...
<chillywilly> off my nice little shuttle box
<chillywilly> http://us.shuttle.com
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> </plug>
<chillywilly> shuttle's rock
<chillywilly> LTSP mounts '/' over NFS right?
<alandd_> chillywilly: don't know.  I have used it but have not drilled into the inner workings
<lh> we're overloading the LTSP server :(
<alandd_> more than a dozen gnue-designers open and people tweeking.  we are beating it up.  How much RAM does it have?
<lh> 500MB, and it's swapping like a pig
<lh> load average of 14
<alandd_> well, we are running full redhat/gnome desktop everywhere too.
<alandd_> I know, I'll start playing tux racer!  ;^)
<lh> Kyle mentioned ascii doom :)
<chillywilly> heh, my box has 1GB RAM :)
<alandd_> will you be our server?
<lh> he just mentioned a bug I reported :)
<lh> why are there 55 state abbreviations?
<chillywilly> alandd_: might be lagged over the internet ;)
<lh> puerto rico, DC, .us virgin islands, iraq?
<lh> ah, load average is down to .25
<alandd_> Iraq, The Oil State
<lh> .pa.us, the Quaker State :)
<alandd_> designer does not have grids.  instead, to continue to target many client platforms and maintain protablility, rows are added to the edit opjects.  This provides grid-like functionality and keeps the extensibility.
<alandd_> drop-down boxes self populate
<alandd_> he is turning us loose a bit!
<alandd_> coming up next: foriegn key support!
<chillywilly> weeee
<lh> like the key to Bagdad :)
<lh> run form is still borken in designer
<SachaS> cool
[17:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<SachaS> its 5.50am here and I am still going strong :)
<SachaS> tell ya its the workrave :) or maybe the timetable ;)
Action: alandd_ gotta get the workrave either that or SachaS is crazy!
<SachaS> you guys having a break? :)
<alandd_> We went into playing and building forms for a while.  This allows the smokers to get their fix and the rest of us to get our hands dirty.
<alandd_> We are gathering back together again.
<alandd_> SachaS: where are you, geographically I mean?
<SachaS> Western Australia
<alandd_> so it is tomorrow morning there?
<SachaS> yes. its sunday.
Action: alandd_ internet is so cool!
<SachaS> haha
<SachaS> break :) 10 mins
btami (~btami@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) left irc: 
<alandd_> switch to query mode in the forms menu does not switch.  The toolbar button does.
<alandd_> oops "Enter query mode"
reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "For each complex problem, there is a simple, understandable, obvious, and wrong solution."
<alandd_> I have been playing, building forms and stuff.  dneighbo is talking again.
<alandd_> foreign keys are needed for  normalized databases.
<alandd_> designer:insert/datasource does not work.  To get around it, open the schema, drag the field onto the form which also creates the datasource.  now delete the widgets from the drag operation but you still have the data source you wanted.
Action: alandd_ bug.
<alandd_> in the forms: cannot query by the foriegn key table.  At least dneighbo can't.
<SachaS> :)
<SachaS> alandd_ you should check with the other users. they migh tfind LOTS of bugs because they dont know what buttons they better should not press.
<SachaS> alandd_ they might be unbiased
<alandd_> we will be playing "full force" in a moment.  dneighbo is admitting that this release does not appear to be "perfect"  :^)
<lh> what's 'max_length' for a 'field'?
<alandd_> he is going to do a "master detail" now.
<alandd_> I believe 'max_length' would be a function of the database and DB engine.  
<SachaS> damn the sun is up :)
<SachaS> 7am and still going
<lh> go SachaS, go  :)
<SachaS> 10 mins workrave b reak :)
<alandd_> SachaS: Now I understand why you use workrave.  You need something like that, maybe another instance, to force sleep breaks!  ;^)
lh (~lufthans@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
alandd_ (~alandd@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
Nick change: user_ -> alandd
<alandd> someone is messing with settings and the clients are doing stuff.  I lost my xchat session!
<SachaS> wb alandd
<alandd> Main presentation is over now.  I plan to talk to dneighbo a bit, however.
alandd (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<user_> I found the guilty party after he dumped me!  Down with him!
Nick change: user_ -> alandd
<alandd> the above was me.
jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-086-142.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> I need one that makes me work longer
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> nah...
user_ (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> heh
Nick change: user_ -> Peko
<alandd> I'm checking out.  see you in the channel
alandd (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<SachaS> yep its working :) i can go home
Nick change: SachaS -> SachaZzz
derek (~dneighbo@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left irc: "Bye Bye"
ajmitch (~ajmitch@wlg1-port21.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
Peko (~user@ip67-89-174-116.z174-89-67.customer.algx.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
gsoti (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-82-87.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<gsoti> hi
gsoti (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-82-87.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left #gnuenterprise.
lesterb (~chatzilla@ash1-dsl-ws-8.dsl.airstreamcomm.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
lupo_ (lupo@pD9542387.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
lupo_ (lupo@pD9542333.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) joined #gnuenterprise.
derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> how'd it go today?
<derek> whew exhausting
<derek> got a minute?
<jcater> we went live w/GNUe-POS today
Action: jcater had to work the shop today, so figured it was a good day to do it
<derek> some stuff to go over if you do (i.e. mini report)
<jcater> I don
<jcater> I don't have time to work
<jcater> but have time to discuss stuff
<jcater> prolly
<derek> ok
<derek> it went fairly welll
<derek> we started an hour late because of a fire :) and other problems
<derek> X is broken for ATI/Mach cards on laptops to export display (grrrr)
<derek> and the training center had faulty wiring (i.e. the fire)
<jcater> gack
<derek> short of that it went pretty good
<derek> the LTSP was seriously under powered
<derek> 1 XP Athlon Server w/ 512mb RAM and 20 workstations doesnt cut it
<derek> it was ok until about 10 people would hit it hard... i suspect moving to 2gig RAM would solve a lot of problems
<derek> but on the GNU Enterprise stuff
<jcater> well, MP really helps out
<jcater> w/LTSP
<jcater> (and RAM too, of course)
<derek> i did pretty ok overview of designer/forms
<jcater> s/MP/SMP/
<derek> didnt get to do much with reports (showed some people after class)
<derek> or navigator
<derek> new designer is pretty awesome
<derek> only real thing that killed me
<derek> is it wouldnt let me add a "new datasource" from scratch
<derek> i.e. Insert->New Datasource is broked
<derek> and couldnt "run forms" from designer (though i was impatient on slow LTSP)
<derek> the rest of the stuff worked pretty well
<derek> two things that really stood out (i.e. everyone in the class found unituitive)
<derek> 1. wild card of * preferred over wild card of % (there might be support for this but im in habit of %)
<derek> 2. the dialogs on left of designer need to be "floating/docking"
<derek> currently they are a little bit buggy (i was able to work around it so not "critical")
<derek> basically if you shrink and grow them they disappear unless you click a third time.. it was kind of funny but we worked around it
<jcater> #1 could easily be done as a config option
<derek> plus they dont size quite right all the time... i think it was schema editor that bottom was cut off and no scroll bar
<derek> other than that people were really impressed
<jcater> I've never thought of * before
<jcater> on #2
<jcater> what do you mean?
<derek> and lived with 1 & 2 ok, just pointing them out as nearly every one commented on them
<derek> on designer there are "editors" on left side
<jcater> btw, the I'm not happy w/the docking system.. 0.5.1's docks were simply a first step
<derek> like property dialog, object inspector, schema editor etc.....
<jcater> right
<derek> you can click the title bars on them to "hide" "show" them
<derek> but its kind of "klunky"
<jcater> yeah
<derek> i told people it was a "first run thing"
<jcater> very clunky
<derek> fighting wx problems
Action: jcater will be the first to admit that
<derek> that we moved to wx 2.4 which allowed a lot more
<jcater> and, yes, wx issues =)
<derek> but it was VERY recent
<derek> and why that wasnt "polished"
<derek> so they were happy w/ that answer
<jcater> seriously, you hit that one on the head
<derek> the * thing is because of MS Access
Action: jcater fought and fought and fought w/wx on the resizing/positioning of the docks
<derek> that is the wild card access uses in their queries (nice and SQL compliant eh)
<jcater> that is strange
<jcater> the really strange part of that is
<jcater> "*" would seem to be a unix-y friendly standard
<jcater> and "%" would seem the odd-ball thing MS would try
<jcater> =)
<jcater> but that's not the case of course
<jcater> but, yeah, you certainly won't offend me w/criticizing the docks
<jcater> I hate them
<jcater> but like them better than what we had
<jcater> if GTK did real MDI, it would be so much easier to do this docking stuff
someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: derek is half way ready to tell you to look at Qt for designer instead (but i think there are windows issues with it, sigh)
<derek> in all seriousness it looked pretty good hit a few bugs here and there, but no show stoppers
<dcmwai> So the class look good :)
<dcmwai> derek: How did the setup work (on server client) 1 X server then all client access gfdes on the Server?
<derek> everything on server (LTSP)
<dcmwai> Thin client :)
<dcmwai> derek: woo 512MB ram is killing :)
<dcmwai> derek: Get any photo yet :)
<derek> i have pictures
<derek> not uploaded yet though
<derek> oh jcater i thought of other bug i found
<dcmwai> What a Nice metting.. :)
<derek> if you have foreign key lookup (that is a drop down box)
Action: jcater plugs his ears
<jcater> lalalala
<derek> you can't use it to query
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> really?
<derek> ie. if you enter "query mode"
<derek> select something from the drop down
<derek> then hit execute query
<derek> it brings back all results
<derek> not just results for what you "selected in dropdown"
<derek> hope that makes sense
<dcmwai> oh anyone know why designer can't start on Rh9 (my system again)
<jcater> hmmm
<someon> Hey, are there any plans to add a table widget?  Takes results of a query and formats as a table, rather than a set of rows?  If you look at the screen shots on the web site, the PO listing line items would be much nicer as a table.
<jcater> you have a form I can see this on?
<jcater> 'cause i just tested it on my form and it worked
<derek> jcater: yeah let me scp it to net
<derek> i could have missed an "option" somewhere
<dcmwai> :)
<jcater> derek: oh, I think I see
<derek> jcater: i dont have a form :(
<jcater> if you don't change fields after selecting from the dropdown
<jcater> then the new value in the dropdown isn't "saved"
<jcater> hmmm
<derek> its at the training center :( forgot wasnt using my laptop
<jcater> that sucks
<derek> ok so you confirmed it
<someon> That'd be a show stopper for me :(  The place I work tend to do queries off the dropdowns a lot
Action: dcmwai is away: BRB System restart for tune
dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.159.18) left irc: "BRB System restart for tune"
<jcater> someon: just a bug
<jcater> not a design deficiency
<jcater> it'll be fixed
<derek> someon: it always worked in the past... think its just minor buglet
<someon> Nods, I recognise it as a bug
<someon> Nods, I bet it'll be fixed before I could download it :P
<jcater> probably not tonighnt
<jcater> I'm closing out financials for our store tonight
<jcater> end of month :(
<someon> Nods, End of Month is a pain
<someon> I hate end of Quarter more, but month-end is not fun
<derek> dcmwai left but here are the FEW pictures i did take
<derek> http://www.gnue.org/~dneighbo/photos/2003/gnue_training/
Action: jcater braces for the goatse pics
<derek> rofl
<jcater> wow
<jcater> how many ppl showed up?
Action: derek runs off to be with family for a bit
<derek> 21
<jcater> these are pics of your class?
<derek> yip
<jcater> not to admit I stereotype ppl
<jcater> but that's not what I expected
<jcater> cool
<derek> what were you expecting?
<derek> younger? older?
<derek> more less geeky?
<jcater> less geeky
Action: derek is just curious.. i thought it was a pretty good mix
<jcater> older
<jcater> (more mature business people)
<jcater> more women
<LuftHans> hey, I brought one woman
<derek> there was another woman that was older that was business that could only stay for the morning
<jcater> LuftHans: only one?
<jcater> the mistress couldn't make it?
Action: jcater ducks
<derek> also remember that summer on a saturday in this heat there is no such thing as business attire :)
Action: jcater just has a mental picture of what derek looks like
<jcater> and tries to imagine what ppl who would
<jcater> take him up on an offer to teach
<jcater> would look like
Action: jcater ducks
<derek> rofl
<LuftHans> jcater: the mistress isn't a geekette
<jcater> LuftHans: ah
<jcater> probably better that way
<jcater> =)
<jcater> so, when's the next meeting?
<jcater> you should hook up a webcam
<jcater> so we can all watch
<someon> I would have like to see what the training screens looked like.
<chillywilly> heh, that's what I said
<chillywilly> video!
<someon> To sell mgmt on something like this, I'd have to show that it's feasible
<chillywilly> derek: you're LUG looks similar to ours
<chillywilly> erm, training class looks like our LUG people
<someon> 'Course that would imply that we have our document and workflow worked out already
<jcater> someon: to answer your earlier question
<jcater> the cell-based table has come up often
<jcater> we're not opposed to it
<someon> jcater:  and?  Shot down often?
<jcater> it just hasn't been a priority
<someon> My users are pretty attached to the functionality - it exists in the system I'd like to toss.
<jcater> but we do seem to be getting a lot of the priorities out of the way
<someon> especially in the results list - the system splits the window into a cell-based table showing the results, and a modify window, to all users to select the "row" that they wanted to modify
<someon> if I were a coder, I'd try to look at it, but I ain't so I won't - don't want to foul the working code
<jcater> I foresee that being part of the layout management reworking
<someon> cool
<jcater> derek: your #1 (* == %) has been committed
<jcater> easy enough fix
<LuftHans> BTW, it'd be cool to offer support for PCRE and other reg ex engines :)
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> but that would be a little more work
<jcater> =)
<LuftHans> true, so I certainly don't expect it soon, but it's still a wish list item :)
<chillywilly> isn't '%' use in the LIKE keyword is SQL?
<chillywilly> used
<jcater> yes
<chillywilly> or that a mysql only thing
<jcater> SQL standard
<chillywilly> so wtf should * == %
<chillywilly> just cause of lame ass M$ Access
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> I didn't take away %
<jcater> I added *
<jcater> and called the config option
<jcater> LameAssAccessEmulation
<jcater> (j/k)
<chillywilly> HEH
<chillywilly> is regexp matching in the sql standard? ;)
--- Sun Aug 31 2003