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<dcmwai> any good news here?
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<LuftHans> reportbug cvs-autoreleasedeb
<LuftHans> Traceback (most recent call last):
<LuftHans> blah, blah
<LuftHans> ImportError: No module named _compat22
<LuftHans> now, how do I report that bug?  :(   :)
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<chillywilly> yo
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<dsmith> Mornin, gnue-heads
<lupo__> Evenin :)
<dsmith> Indeed
<dneighbo_> LuftHans: you need to install apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges
<dneighbo_> you would have avoided upgrading a critically flawed reportbug :)
<dsmith> report bug is broke?  Cool. I'm running testing and it's been held back for a while.
<dsmith> s/report bug/reportbug/
<dneighbo_> Retrieving bug reports... Done
<dneighbo_> grave bugs of reportbug (2.20 -> 2.26.1) <done>
<dneighbo_>  #206643 - reportbug: quits
<dneighbo_>  #207780 - reportbug: reportbug crashes when ran.
<dneighbo_> Summary:
<dneighbo_>  reportbug(2 bugs)
<dneighbo_> Are you sure to install/upgrade these packages? [Y/n/?/...]
<dneighbo_> is what i get when i try apt-get install reportbug
Action: dneighbo_ loves apt-listbugs :)
<chillywilly> bah, mofos
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<Vee> <done> indicates the bug(s) are fixed, IIRC.. reportbug works here fwiw.. 
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<btami> hi
<jamest> hi
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<SachaS> morning
<SachaS> back in Perth
<LuftHans> say hi to the dragons
<SachaS> hi LuftHans
<LuftHans> hallo
<SachaS> how are you?
<LuftHans> kinda beat by the heat
<SachaS>   :)
<SachaS> your into inventory, right
<SachaS> ?
<LuftHans> it's end of winter where you're at right?
<SachaS> right :)
<SachaS> its getting warmer
<LuftHans> SachaS: yeah, I need to get back to that, but first some work to be done in dia and some security stuff for another customer
<SachaS> cool.
<SachaS> i was in Sydney at the Australian Unix, Open Source, Open Systems Conference
<SachaS> and at a birds of feather we discussed foss business applications
<SachaS> apparently there is one guy (over 50 years) who has been doing business apps for 20 years
<SachaS> and is in the process of rewriting them and releasing the base a GPL
<SachaS> under GPL that is
<SachaS> the base only, and sell addons and support
<LuftHans> SachaS: most cool
<LuftHans> ok, well then mostly cool :)
<SachaS> i think it comes from the construction side. eg business app for construction companies
<SachaS> he told me that they are about to release it in spring 2004
<SachaS> and in a couple of days the guys from nola-pro will release their new version, we will see under what licence
<LuftHans> hmm, might be interesting for me
Action: LuftHans just subbed a construction mgt class for a couple of weeks.
<SachaS> :)
<SachaS> pssst, two days ago i firstly looked into gnue source code
<SachaS> hell i dont understand whats going on ;)
<SachaS> also I came into a shop and saw myob (australian version) in the shelves for 540 A$ 
<SachaS> its about time that gnue-sb evolves :)
<SachaS> would be so awesome to see gnue-sb grow
<LuftHans> yup
<SachaS> yup yup yup
<SachaS> then yesterday I bouth a fuit-shake
<LuftHans> I want to help, but I doubt I'll do anything that requires me looking at python
<SachaS> i had a look at their point-of-sale software (quick look)
<SachaS> specific pos for that "fruit-shake" business
<SachaS> LuftHans yeah, i guess a module developer should not have to do too much python
<SachaS> in theory
<SachaS> LuftHans a developer might write a requirements specification ...... and then one of the gnue-hackers can "implement" it
Action: SachaS wants to backread the gnue-irc log
<LuftHans> I've got at least one place to install gnue-pos, but first I need to learn it
<LuftHans> unfortunately that install won't get me paid, but it might get me free food :)
<jcater> mmmm
<jcater> free food
<jcater> my favorite kind
<SachaS>  hi jcater
<Vee2d2> something in here is beeping at like 15-20m intervals and I cant find it
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> well, if the beeps get to 20 seconds apart
<jcater> I'd run
<jcater> SachaS: howdy
<chillywilly> hah
Action: jcater needs to do some screenshots of GNUe POS in action
<jcater> and some scans of the register tapes
<jcater> etc
<LuftHans> cool, bug I reported yesterday will be fixed in the next release
<LuftHans> I fixed the problem locally by removing the package, though :)
<SachaS> i think i should assign myself to a gnue task :) so i have a job here :)
<SachaS> without an assigned task to myself I dont have a clear plan
<SachaS> without an assigned task i keep surfing around gnue forever ;)
<jcater> you're still welcomed
<jcater> after all, we still keep chillywilly around
Action: jcater ducks
<SachaS> :)
Action: chillywilly cries
<SachaS> is it possible that there is no cvs download page on gnue ?
<jcater> it's hidden
<jcater> click on the community tab
<SachaS> hidden, how come?
<jcater> and you'll see CVS
<jcater> beats me
<chillywilly> or look on savannah
<SachaS> cool.
Action: jcater has been meaning to add that to the sidebar
<SachaS> true
<SachaS> i guess people expect cvs under download
Action: SachaS has to think what task to assign to himself
<jcater> SachaS: what interests you?
<SachaS> jcater gnue2gnue
<jcater> eh?
<SachaS> i am into ebXML so for me it would be:
<SachaS> gnue <lan> ebxml <internet> ebxml <lan> gnue
<jcater> ah
<SachaS> ebxml has collaborative business processes as a foundation
<jcater> sounds like gnue integrator is just your thing
<SachaS> gnue-integrator? 
<SachaS> huh
<SachaS> ok
<SachaS> will check gnue-integrator
<Vee2d2> hah! found it!
<SachaS> :) 
<Vee2d2> it was my old cordless phone which has been unplugged for more than a week.. guess the handset was telling me the battery was dying
<SachaS> Vee2d2 let me guess: firealarm is running low on batteries ...
<SachaS> similar :9
Action: jcater runs to the grocery store...
<jcater> (cause heaven forbid wife can't)
<chillywilly> HAHA
<chillywilly> you sound a little bitter there jcater 
<SachaS> jcater before you run. can you confirm that lots of logic is in forms eg the .gfd file?
<SachaS> logic as in business logic
<jamest> it is
<SachaS> hi jamest. thanks.
<jamest> in a client/server setup
<SachaS> in a 2 tier: client - database setup, logic is in the form (client).
<jamest> yes
<SachaS> in a 3 tier: client - server -database setup, logic will/might be in the server ?
<jamest> yes
<SachaS> ok.
<jamest> i use forms for input validation and simple logic in the form
<jamest> against a postgresql database
<SachaS> ok. i had a look at some code in forms and common ...
<SachaS> i saw the uihandler and then the specific "gtk","wx" uihandler
<SachaS> also i saw the datasource and specific datasources "postgresql"
<SachaS> then the battery died in the laptop 
<jamest> you ever used oracle sql*forms?
<SachaS> never
<SachaS> are they similar to gnue forms?
<jamest> i started forms w/ oracle sql*forms 3.0 as a model
<jamest> jcater came on and he is also a big sql*forms 3.0 user
<SachaS> ok
<jamest> IMHO we've surpassed that product in several areas
<SachaS> cool
<SachaS> dont understand the "how you put together the sql query". lots to be left out to be found out in the code
<SachaS> actually like the block that when you are within the block the next/previous is in the context of that block
<jamest> you have a mapping of 1 block per table
<jamest> blocks are master blocks (contain a primary key) and detail (reference the pk in a master block)
<jamest> you just define the fields in the block that link to the fields in the table
<jamest> forms builds all the sql at run time and deals with all master/detail relationships
<jamest> you never have to touch a line of sql
<jamest> and you can nest master/detail to almost any level (unlike oracles sql*forms)
<jamest> so a master can have 5 details 
<jamest> those 5 details can each be masters of other blocks
<jamest> something else forms does that sql*forms couldn't is query by detail
<jamest> if you do a query and input query data into a detail blocks then forms will work it's way up the details
<jamest> determine which master records should have been loaded then load those masters
<SachaS> forms builds all the sql at run time...
<jamest> yes
<jamest> you never have to deal with it at all
<jamest> it handles all inserts,updates,deletes automatically
<SachaS> <jamest> it handles all inserts,updates,deletes automatically wow
<SachaS> does it do that as expected ?
<jamest> that depends upon what you expect
<SachaS> true
<jamest> lets say you've got 15 purchase orders in memory
<jamest> we've set po as the master block
<SachaS> jamest: how do you deal with constraints (sql term excaped on me)
<jamest> we've set po_items as a detail block
<SachaS> ok go ahead
<SachaS> ok
<jamest> i can safely alter any combination of master records and detail records
<SachaS> what do you mean with having them in memory??? compared to having  thme in the databse?
<jamest> sorta
<jamest> forms cache's the record sets (in a stupid way)
<jamest> so you could have 65523 po's pulled during a query
<SachaS> ok
<jamest> but it only loads them 10 (by default) at a time
<jamest> it's only a forward sliding cache
<jamest> so if you needed po in position 405
<jamest> it'd have 1-410 in memory
<SachaS> ok. you mean only 10 po's come from the database.
<SachaS> eg load = result from database
<jamest> yes
<jamest> anyway forms tracks which records in memory have be altered and only updates/deletes/inserts as needed
<SachaS> then when you access one which is not yet loaded from the databse it then loads it on demand from the database
<jamest> one thing I don't think we've done is deletion of a master marks all the details for delete
<jamest> yes, sorta
<SachaS> ok.
<jamest> it's a dumb cache
<jamest> lets simplify
<jamest> i have 70,000 zipcodes in a table
<jamest> i tell forms "load them all"
<jamest> forms loads 1 thru 10
<SachaS> ok.
<jamest> if I navigate to record 11 then forms loads the next 10
<jamest> if I tell it go to records 135
<SachaS> ok.
<jamest> then forms *must* load 1-140
<jamest> the cache only grows
<SachaS> 1-140 ?
<jamest> 1 thru 140
<SachaS> oh not 1 minus 140
<jamest> the cache only grows
<SachaS> ok
<SachaS> wow do you load all from 1 thru 140?
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<SachaS> not only 135 plus minux 5 ?
<SachaS> like 130 thru 140
<jamest> it only loads those missing in memeory
<jamest> so if you've already got 1 thru 20 loaded
<SachaS> ok
<jamest> it'll load 21 - 140
<SachaS> which is a lot, right?
<jamest> not too bad
<SachaS> so if I go to the last one, all will be in the cache
<jamest> yes
<jamest> but in practice that doesn't happen 
<SachaS> why not?
<jamest> most users don't want to deal with 65000 records at a time
<jamest> they want to filter it down
<jamest> it's a known issue with the gnue datasources
<SachaS> ok
<jamest> nothing stops us from implementing a better cache
<jamest> but so far it's not pissed us off to the point of actually doing it
<jamest> :)
<SachaS> ok. no worries
<SachaS> i realy should assign a task to myself here ...
<SachaS> so i do something useful
<jamest> what are you looking to accomplish with gnue?
<SachaS> jamest good question ...
<SachaS> actually i dont know
<jamest> work or play?
<SachaS> rather play
<jamest> gotta run
<jamest> l8r
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<ajmitch> hi jeff
<jbailey> Heya Andrew
<ajmitch> what's up?
<jbailey> Not much, just about to log off and head to sleep.
<ajmitch> ah ok
<ajmitch> i"m sorta feeling like that at the moment :)
<ajmitch> except that I just happen to have an assignment due tomorrow
<jbailey> But it's midnight here. =)
<chillywilly> it's 11 here
<ajmitch> getting close(ish) to midnight here  too :)
<jbailey> chillywilly: Only 16 hours to go, or something like that?
<chillywilly> uh?
<chillywilly> Mon Sep  8 22:49:26 CDT 2003
<jbailey> Oh wait, I counted 16 hours in the wrong direction. =)
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--- Tue Sep  9 2003