about time :) OO somehow has issue with the form .. .when i go into "edit file" mode it turns all white; same when I save form and load it in OO that does not happen with gnue-forms :) a guys once showed how to do mast-slave things in OO cant remember how . OO reports needs java and works. not sure how to do the mast-slave thing in OO forms or OO reports though (not yet) alandd (~alandd@h-66-167-132-163.PHNDAZ91.covad.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi alandd how goes the war the "edite file" is not the way to edit the form ... still cant find the "forms edit" mode buttin the forms design mode the "design mode" button was right infront of me ... I was just going to go after python tonight! then I realized I have not updated the ssh on this box and got distracted with that OK that is on the way. Back to the python howto... The howto and the archive are incomplete. Time to hit another channel... OK. Python 2.1, 2.2 or 2.3? go for 2.3 man! ;) rodger that. ok enought OO back to thesis arghh Action: SachaS is a little bit impressed with OO datasource, form, designer it's been quite a while since I played with that slurping python2.3 now... not enough space on device! VNC is going bye bye. Action: alandd after all that effort. It is just too big :^( alandd: i have suspcion to do GNU Enterprise on one of those it will take a sleeve dual compact flash (plus battery) one flash for wlan and one flash for extra 512mb memory :) yep. only one slot right now. i have a 220MB pccard but then I don't have network :^( Action: chillywilly cries about alandd's vnc I read perl for you! you owe me! ;) hey, I still have it all on the desktop. It will come back someday. Action: alandd still wasn't working yet anyway Action: alandd still sings praises of chillywilly HEH tying again. (why not.) ipkg is not perfect. It is complaining about left-overs from the failed previous attempt that ran out of space. seems when it ran out os space, it just stopped but did not clean up. dimas_ (~dimas@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. still not enough space. I'm going to have to dump more stuff. derek: maybe that compaq guy can get us a dual slot sleeve? They've got to have this 2 year old stuff lying around somewhere... Action: alandd hunts for packages to remove.. reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Nope. Deleted most of the games and some other stuff but still not enough room. I'm going to cut to the bone, now. how big is the ROM? hmm... let me check in a minute. Action: alandd memory fails this late at night. 16MB flash rom and 32MB system ram. I now have 1.6MB and 10.7MB available, respectively and it is still not enough! I'll have to try it with the PC card in place and through the serial cable for the network connection. Need more memory! derek: tell the compaq guy we need a 3800 with a dual sleeve. that'd work! 16MB?!? yea, state of the art 2 years ago! I need to make more memory available which should be doable via my pc card. Or, I could continue paring down the current installation, though I ahve already wacked the easy stuff. I just need Linux, a window manager X, gtk gwt a new iPAQ? ;) I vote for that! you buying? ;^) nope ;) I'm about to fall out of my chair. gotta go to bed. Not much progress but learning was accomplished. online log updated. Action: alandd is away: ZZzz.. Action: SachaS is doing stuff he shouldn ot do ( like compiling postgredql odbc driver) wendall911 (~wendallc@198.31.172.218) left irc: "off to bed" might be a bug in the odbc postgresql driver in connection with OO dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. dimas_ (~dimas@195.218.177.46) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) SachaS (~sacha@online.havanawave.com) got netsplit. SachaS (~sacha@online.havanawave.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. there is a deb package in experimental which solves a problem between odbc-postgreql nad OO debin experimental release ;) awesome :) guess a general problem is: how to model "things", such as gnue packages if the models are flawed, the whole app is flawed no matter which tools you use (gnue, OO, x, y, z) and i guess thats a big challenge for gnue packages, as they ought to be great packages johannesX (~johannes@M1264P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: SachaS should not download OO SDK gypsymauro (~colorioma@host103-11.pool21757.interbusiness.it) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning! good morning today I hope I can play with gnue again:) a question about three tier, you are thinking to use zope as application server or to write one fomr scratch? gnue has a application server modules called gnue-appserver rather from scracth gresco (~gresco@200.81.194.87) joined #gnuenterprise. hi is this the home of the zealots? SachaS: but it seems not usable for production right? I want to break free good song gypsymauro not yet for production use, but for development use ;) it's for promotion :-) just contract him .. SachaS: instead the 2 tier model is already working for production? gypsymauro: yep gypsymauro yes there are 2 tier applications in production. there is some link about them? I was very impressed yesterday and I'm planning to analize gnue more in detail gypsymauro have you checked gnue-sb at http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnue-sb ? i dont have any links to "in production-live" applications ... SachaS: it seems dead as project. lol SachaS: I mean gnue-sb, I looked at mailin lists and they are quiet lately:( I have deja vu guess it calmed down, a bit have to go :) gnue-sb stuff is often discussed here have you tried to get the "contact" sample running in gnue-sb? Action: SachaS using contact forms gtg it's like I've already lived this moment before Nick change: SachaS -> SachaDinner sorry I'm a bit new to gnue:) gypsymauro: you will not much on the internet, talk with the developers that use it in production daily I hope gnue-sb will grow and reach its milestones:) no it wont hehe dimas: ok, I'll try it too just kidding gypsymauro: http://papo.vialibre.org.ar/ is based on old gnue code and in active development I thought this was the zealot channel i don't saw screenshotof sb, is only via web? gresco: sorry? or is it #gnu? Action: ajmitch shrugs - this is a channel for GNU Enterprise, a specific project ah dimas: very interesting! so no speeches just profit ok I'll leave before you call security bye, now gresco (~gresco@200.81.194.87) left #gnuenterprise. ?? Action: ajmitch guesses he was just trolling Nick change: SachaDinner -> SachaS ToyMan (~stuq@65.167.123.238) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@65.167.123.238) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Just saw the announcements on freshmeat this morning. Congrats guys! dsmith: which announce? yep congrats Action: SachaS created a serial letter with OO against a gnue-sb contact database table :) gypsymauro: New releases of forms, designer, common, and reports gypsymauro: navigator too wowowo what's navigator? navigator lets you choose different forms, different reports (starts gnue-forms for specific forms, same for gnue-reports) jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. knt (~knt@mstr195175-14380.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all, i've just made a new log for GNUe, if is anyone interested in, i can send image with dcc or mail... jamest@math.ksu.edu jamest: it's gone (also thanks for your interest...) that's kinda neat only it implies speed and we're slow :) haha =) ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) jamest: i was so liked (what an english) e sign. jamest: also you can turn it's speed mean to: we're coming to rock! :D :) ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. knt (~knt@mstr195175-14380.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr) left irc: "leaving" alandd (~alandd@h-66-167-132-163.PHNDAZ91.covad.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" I'm trying to use designer to create a form, but I can't add a datasource, I choose insert->datasource it popups a dialog that asks me the connectin name but if I put a name and i click on continue it doesn't do nothing:( :( i know most of the designer workings are based upon using a wizard or drag and drop to set up datasources do you already have the table you're trying to attach to? jamest: what do you mean? if I've build a table in my postgresql db? yes you have it in pgsql have you defined a connection in your connections.conf file? jamest: ops.. nope, I've to do it manually? any example? ok is this normal install? or setup-cvs.py install or other? normal install , ok I found a template in etc:) if you run cvs then you'll find that file in $HOME/gnue/etc by default once you put in a connections.conf entry then in designer you'll be able to use wizards to create master/detail forms with multiple tables or simply drag and drop tables from the lower left box into the painter jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. it'll setup all the datasources for you lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.39) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: ok I setup the datasource, now how I can buld a form to navigate a tabel for example? normal install puts the file in /usr/local/gnue/etc IIRC Vee: yes gypsymauro: open designer in the lower left you should see that datasource open it open the table listing drag and drop the table you want onto the empty painter area be amazed mess with form a bit witness segfault be upset that's the process I use hehe you can also step thru the process in File -> new -> from wizard if I was doing a single table form I'd drag and drop if I was doing a multitable form I'd use the wizard as it handles the primary key/foreign key relationships automatically in case someone want to see the logo knt made http://www.math.ksu.edu/~jamest/gnue_01.png knt? that's pretty neat very nice! jamest: which wizard? form wizard in designer the multi-page one it's takes you step by step thru creating the form wendall911 (~wendallc@198.31.172.218) joined #gnuenterprise. but for single table stuff nothing beats drag and drop jamest: I didn't fount that multitable form wizard:( ah ok found but AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'TemplateInformation whatever happened to the webware forms UI plugin? code was never checked in? never written? gypsymauro: argh! you're running the release ? yes i think that's fixed in cvs now how far in did you get before it bombed? Action: chillywilly smacks jamest awake ;P fine ignore me chillywilly: i don't knwo ok i was testing designer cvs got all the way thru gypsymauro: try the drag and drop wendall911 (~wendallc@198.31.172.218) left #gnuenterprise. if the release is borked we should probably do another release can someone explain in short how ROADMAP.in works? um lemme look Action: jamest thought there is util that converts a ROADMAP.in to a html file newton$ ../gnue-common/utils/generate-feature-plan.py ROADMAP.in Action: gypsymauro 's jealous, hey chillywilly wha't that kiss! what happens with that html then? uh? jamest: when i click on the menu choiche it doesn't display nothing 17:23 * chillywilly smacks jamest awake reinhard: we upload to that's not a kiss ;) samck ops..in italian smack is the sound of a kiss:) mkore like open handed slap upside the head more* http://www.gnu.org/software/gnue/feature-plans/feature-plans.html thanks chilly germs!!!!!!! argh!!!!!!!!!!! Internal * Remove all 'dneighbo'-specific code breakers haha how I can delete a "page"? at this time I think you have to resort to a text editor and remove from to ok is the drag and drop working? jamest: yes jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "rebooting" jamest: but if I run the form it doesn't show any data for the form wizard, maybe I need a template? lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.39) left irc: Connection timed out forms come up empty by default hit f8 then f9 lupo__ (lupo@pD9E68A4A.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) f8 tells the form you're going into query mode then you can type search filters into the fields using std sql wildcards f9 executes the query a prequery option on the datasource autofills the table data at startup lupo__ (lupo@pD954256E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. wowowow very very very nice jamest: I'll do a talk on gnuenterprise at the linuxday this year:) linuxday is an italian event where all LUGs makes workshops and demonstration locally jamest: u think it's better for me to downlaod the cvs version? last question for today, isn't possible to have form with AA fonts?;) personally I run the cvs stuff when developing and setup via setup-cvs.py in gnue-common jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nice boots, jcater then once I'm ready to deploy i install the cvs copy on my systems eh? <-- jcater has quit ("rebooting") jcater: he meant to say boobs oh, yea. :) i posted those pics of yours i found after root'ing your box silly typos toplessTechie.jpg that's a pretty slick logo knt did jamest: ? 2logo? jamest: i want the boobs too to make the new logo;) :) true dat we should rip off the hooters logo gypsymauro: by doing devel in cvs it's easy to get bug fixes as our setup-cvs.py file fakes the install for the user pointing everything back into their checked out copy of gnue so a cvs up -Pd gfdes and you're running the latest designer from cvs as for the fonts that's a bit of a mess if you have AA fonts as default I would think that forms would use them jamest: on linux? well if you get get GTK 1 using AA fonts c/get get/can get/ i would think so as all forms default ui driver does is ask for the default fixed width font gkt1 uses AA?? not that I know of ? i thought it worked on debian unstable? not that I know of mine certainly aren't AA I've seen gtk1 have AA I forget the circumstances though it's a real pain to get set up, iirc http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200304/msg03132.html There's also a horrible hack called libgdkxft0 that lets GTK1.2-based apps use AA buw wxwindows uses only gtk1.2? or there will be a porting to gtk2? Oh right you just have to preload libgdkft0 and then set some variable I think wxwindows is being ported to gtk2 the debian packages made it easy. well, easy is relative :) lol I've tried to do it in unstable and gave up but I had a low patience threshhold I think current unstable its automagic sigh ah, well this was months ago and stable does move quickly s/stable/unstable brb jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection thus the name i've to go see you gypsymauro (~colorioma@host103-11.pool21757.interbusiness.it) left irc: "leaving" got lots done today, just not for the thesis heh.. man.. the embroidery stuff is getting so crazy.. I may hafta hire someone.. embroidery??? what is that? when you put thread through something to make a picture SachaS: Stickerei Sachas: topsew.com, my company jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ;) let me have a look jcater, nice boobs. er jcater do you have the python2.3 pysablot .deb file? some broken images in your catalog no which, nickr? that site's terribly bitrotted, too.. :( Catalog A, Tshirts, Cotton - Pigment Dyed Ahh, that one's actually a vendor's site Ah silly vendors so you put logos and stuff on all those things? you bet neat jcater: ok. wanted to try reports the other day ... nickr: and he does a damn fine job too :) Action: jcater is a satisfied customer Excellent :) I was about to clean up the gnue logo and perhaps punch a new one or two (that knt logo's motivating) but it'll have to wait 'till this present wave of stuff passes topsew.com/see/gnue hah, the goat logo is nice it's kind of plain right now.. I'm going to pizzaz it up the gnue goat logo tres chic Action: jcater likes the goat logo jcater made the artwork for that but I'm highly biased hehe. yeah is nice i see nothing konq no workie jamest, not using a good browser, eh? ;) i dont use a good browser i use the best browser ;p j/k I'd written that code while playing with css stuff and it aparently is only moz friendly.. someday I'll go back and clean it up to be more portable jamest: which one is that? konq css blows goats ;) ok. good night. SachaS, sweet dreams css support thanks Vee. night SachaS Vee you want gnue for that company? the inventory etc. .. if so, its good as you know what your doing ;) Nick change: SachaS -> SachaZzz Nick change: dsmith -> dsmith|lunch SachaZzz, that's the plan cool konq lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.39) joined #gnuenterprise. dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.210.170) joined #gnuenterprise. roche (~roche@200.9.51.53) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) joined #gnuenterprise. roche (~roche@200.9.51.53) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) Nick change: dsmith|lunch -> dsmith wendall911 (~wendallc@198.31.172.218) joined #gnuenterprise. anybody see this http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/09/08/162259 Might be a great tool for migrating users to GNUe is there a kind of checklist for releases? Formally, not sure... but 1. Change version in __init__.py 2. run cvs2cl.pl to generate the ChangeLog file 3. Do prereleases (if you want... no one will actually look at them) (do that as GNUE_VERSION_SUFFIX=-pre1 ./setup.py sdist) 4. Run setup.py sdist --format="gztar,zip" err, 1a. Update your NEWS file and psu has a little checklist on announcing releases Action: jcater will look for the url for that http://www.gnuenterprise.org/admin/readme.txt we should probably put that in a technote I'm pointing someone named Monika at GNUe. She was in Derek's workshop. Tell him she'll be helping me with the consulting gig. She will probably need help getting GNUe running. I told her to hop in here if she has any questions. I'm sure you just did he's a log rat ;) or would that be a beaver? rat [13:59] Last message repeated 1 time(s). haha though that still doesn't seem right i think the official title is bug finding, feature wanting rat bastard i don't think log was anywhere in there Action: Vee is having some trouble contructing a sed command line.. have a file that has like FSJDKFSJKcxzkcjlksjdlkfjs(M9.sfdhjkhskfs)jskhfkjshdkjfsk and I want to extract the (M9.whatever) designer is not working in CVS :) make this is the title :) derek "designer is not working in CVS" neighbors? extract as in trim off all the other stuff? sed -n -e '/(M9[.][^)]+)/p' file or something cut -d\( -f 2 | cut -d \) -f 1 that's what I was thinking cut what's not working about it? well.. there's other ('s in the file I'm only interested in the (M9.shfshfskhh)'s Night buddy :) Action: dcmwai is away: Sleeping, Good Night Nick change: dcmwai -> dcmwai|AWAY jcater: thank you vee:~> sed -n -e '/[(]M9[.][^)]+[)]/p' GMM_01.pdf vee:~> perl -e "s/.*(\(M9\.\S\).*/\1/" :) yeah, I was about to say that is the one thing I'd use perl for dcmwai|AWAY (~dcmwai@219.95.210.170) left irc: "Client exiting" perl ? here ? =) perl? I cant get that to work either.. ;( I didn't expect that one to work, sorry. the idea perl -pe 's/.*(M9).*/$1/' fred fred being the file with the M9 in it sed -e 's/.*(\(M9.*\)).*/\1/' file works on your sample perl -pe 's/.*(\(M9\.\S*\)).*/$1/' fred d'oh, forgot the * after the \S using sed is certainly a better idea than using an inline perl script, though :) anyone want to help me get Oracle working on debian? I think I have it installed correctly, but I can't connect to the puppy I haven't gotten that far sed -n -e 's/^.*(\(M9\.[^)]*\).*/\1/p' GMM_01.pdf works.. but only shows me the last result PDF? i would think that would be an entirely different beast ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" siesel (~jan@xdsl-213-196-209-221.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all heyaz siesel http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/images/isabel091803-1153z.jpg hi Vee what picture is that. I can't load it? h0t pr0n you're sure missing out it's hurricane isabel siesel, pic of hurricane isabel satilite photo an pretty damn impressive is that the one close too washington? I read a bit of the german US TODAY in the tramp Action: siesel has to switch to english again. I mean, I read something about that / saw a sat. photo in that newspaper, read by the person sitting next to me jamest: do you have shell access on savannah? at one time i did have'nt tried sinse the breakin since I have some files to be moved in the common/rpc tree they've taken shell accounts away do you have time to try if you still have access, and if help ,e? unless you are an admin and have re-requested shell access jcater: have you ? mine works great :) whoops yeah mine won't work no, it doesn't we need subversions instead of cvs :) so we can move files from our client machines yes. that would be great. i like subversions but I honestly don't think it's ready to replace cvs or is that subversion talk about a namespace collision I think savannah has subversion or why the cvs host calls subversions.gnu.org the gnu cvs server is names subversions siesel: they say they named subversions.gnu.org before the subversions cvs replacement existed they did hmmm. that's a pitty. btw. what about arch? The xouvert.org hackers using it. ok, about the common/rpc tree. Should I use add/remove to change the dir structur? Seems like its the easiest way. ok, I will do it that way. .... until we use a better(TM) revision control programm bbL siesel (~jan@xdsl-213-196-209-221.netcologne.de) left irc: "Client exiting" oh my oh my i guess 95% of our troubles with distutils and setup.py is because we don't install into standard dir gnu arch is much more interesting than subversion oh well back to rockin' out on my guitar svn is nice. but arch is like disributed...you can create a fork of a repository that exists on a different machine over the net ToyMan (~stuq@user-0cevdks.cable.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. neat, I still like svn better. reinhard: i don't even recall why we dont i wouldn't want to be in site-packages/* but site-packages/gnue/* seems ok what OS do AS/400's typically run? AIX? think so I thought AS/400s ran VM/CMS or OS/390 maybe I'm just halucinating maybe OS/390 only runs on zSeries or S/390 any one know if either of those come standard with SSH ? I'd say unlikely Well, modern AIX might. hrm maybe they run something called OS400 sigh we have a partner that wants to transfer us client data via FTP Action: jcater is trying to talk them into scp :) Action: jcater is paranoid like that Its most likely that ssh has been ported to OS400 I think tis some crazy old school timesharing database system this would be a farely recent installation of the AS/400 so likely it'd run whatever IBM is currently pushing OS/400 is one of those operating systems that TCP/IP is sort of an add-on option jcater: one way transfer? no they'll be sending me certain data and later I'll be sending back other data porn, wares, mp3s a thank you well, one way as in they'll be initiating the push or pull broman (~broman@apollo.gti.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Oh neat OS/400 can partition the system to run Windows or Linux in a partition ;) like S/390 jcater: http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/software/v5r2.html its realistic to assume ssh could be gotten on to an iSeries nickr: Linux I understand, but windows? Yea its weird I don't know how it works maybe its marketing BS it's like this or maybe they have a weird portability layer open vm w/ windows watch it bomb open new one watch it bomb open new one it's kinda like running win4lin Well wait a minute. IS that a os/400 running on wintel hardware? windows still sucks but you save the time waiting for the machine to POST I don't think so, even though they call it an 'eServer' might be some crazy custom IBM CPU hrm, the high-end iSeries run on Power4 PPC weird Oh You get a special card and you can run NT inside an iSeries or you can link together an iSeries and an xSeries running NT to make the xSeries look like 'part' of the iSeries funky (xSeries are Xeon-based windows servers) you can of course run Linux directly in an OS/400 partition mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) left irc: Remote closed the connection reinhard_ (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 111 (Connection refused) dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise ("Client exiting"). lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.39) left irc: Nick collision from services. Nick change: reinhard_ -> reinhard fwiw i installed common and appserver into /usr and got it to run (although the directory structure is hosed) same for /usr/local jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client exiting" both variants would run much cleaner than that /usr/local/gnue we have now I very much believe that we must reconsider installing gnue into site-packages I still don't see why it wouldn't work and it would save us megatons of trouble not to mention jbailey and other packagers one of the main issues I have is that you then tie your GNUe installation to a specific version of python... a future python upgrade would decimate your GNUe install on debian, that's not really an issue but on other architectures, that would scare me site-packages is designed for site-wide modules to extend python's functionality I'm not 100% opposed but it'd seem quite non-standard for an app to be in site-packages Action: jcater thinks of zope, boa-constructor, bittorrent, and other python applications where do they install? zope installs like we do as do the others iirc but I'm quite familiar w/zope that always annoys me It seems like apps shouldn't be mixing into the runtime the bigger issue is that dist-utils has become an installation tool for "modules" not for "applications" so we are really making dist-utils be an installation program for something it is no longer meant to be hmmm I equate dist-utils to perl'cpan err, perl's cpan aren't our "applications" actually python modules with a small executable wrapper around them? well, strictly speaking, yes but by modules I meant shared python libraries not the strict semantic sense I'm not 100% opposed to installing into site-packages as it would make things easier but it just seems wrong to me honestly it would make thins _alot_ easier and i'm not sure if something that acieves the same and is much easier can be "wrong" :-) well I'm not sure I agree with that logic 100% as the reason jbailey's having such a hard time is he's having to warp out install to debian's standard out=our sure sure moving to site-packages would help him achieve his goal but how is that not a double standard? but AFACT debian's standard is pretty much fhs AFAICT that is jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-106-144.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. well now i haven't thought much about it it was just spontaneous as i worked through appserver's setup.py today and was like what the hell this is complex and then i tried simply to remove setup.cfg and tried with --prefix=/usr/local and after fixing about 5 things everything worked fine it would be _so_ much easier if everything was in python's search path and IMHO at least gnue-common is nothing more than shared python libraries however i will leave it like it is for this release of appserver it was just a thought i had today dsmith (~dsmith@mail.actron.com) left irc: "Client exiting" if nothing critical happens, i'd like to release GNUe-Appserver-0.0.4 tomorrow cool again, i don't recall why we did what we did after googling around and all our apps I'm reasonably sure putting GNUe into site-packages would be against debian python policy if not now, in the future are basically libraries w/ a tiny wrapper really? i figured the wrappers would go into bin like normal the images into shared etc, etc yeah apart from all the rest the debian python policy implies that and anything under import gnue.* could go to site-packages anything in site-packages should be named shared would be "share" probably :) python2.x- and that such a package: that's the package name right? "will always provide the module for the default Debian Python version of the distribution. I.e. the package will extend the function of `/usr/bin/python' (which is installed by the package `python'). " gnue-common might meet that test but I don't see the others doing that they wouldn't sigh Action: jamest thwaps anything within reach I honestly don't see the issues we're having with debs we've done several debs in the past with very minimal effort (I did some myself) our setup.py's have not changed since then but I digress I still don't like dist-utils but don't see anything better jcater: where did you find debian's python policy? vi /usr/share/doc/python/python-policy.txt they need to clarify several things ah ok thanks because the have a separate section for python modules and python applications derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Connection timed out but the python applications section stops short of providing useful information derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. file a bug against it then sit back and wait for moshez to insult you for being stupid moshez? debian guy think he wrote the python policy huh, he didn't how do you like that. hmmm do we have the irc logs of may 2001 around somewhere? the change to install python files in /usr/local/gnue instead of site-packages was committed 30 may 2001 http://irc-logs.gnue.org/log/old/ thanks [20:22] derek: I got the new setup scripts in place [20:22] that put code in /usr/local/gnue/lib/python (this is settable) [20:22] jcater: sweet seems like it's derek's fault ;-) isn't it always? [19:43] I was thinking about distribution as I was working on reports [19:43] Why do we [19:43] move the gnue. modules into the python site library [19:43] wouldn't it [19:43] be safer/easier to maintain [19:44] tp put them in, say, /usr/local/gnue/lib look at where bittorrent puts its files [19:44] t/tp/to [19:44] and [19:44] make PYTHONLIB=/usr/local/gnue/lib it's python [19:44] ? [19:45] better yet [19:45] move gfclient's code into gnue.forms somewhere [19:45] and make a sh-based gfclient set PYTHONLIB and call python [19:45] this would allow multiple versions to be installed as well ah, yes multiple versions of GNUe installed bah christ one is enough! that seems rather pointless ;P Action: chillywilly runs away it's great to have irc archives :) Action: jamest thinks it's great to have root access and sed rofl well to bring this discussion to an end i leave it up to you i understand the argument of having multiple installs however if you see jbailey please tell him i might be able to help him how many apps do you install mutiple versions of? i don't forsee this happening as i've learned much today on how distutils work and how you raped it good what happening? as we don't recall the details and why can't you just install form source then into a different prefix? only that we raped it from jamest: you don't forsee what happening? multiple versions installed ah ok i thought that you see jbailey ;-) oh fsck it's 1:25 a.m. Action: reinhard runs to bed reinhard: I think your clock's off night all mine says 6:25 pm lol night and thanks for the discussion reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Everything that is worth fighting for, is worthy fighting dirty for." jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sdani (~sdani@host-209-214-50-66.tys.bellsouth.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Did the conversations on fixing distutils get any further the other day? not really it's still talked about if you can read up a bit in the logs you'll find a concern about moving things into site-packages that involves the debian guidlines and multiple version support i don't know if I see the need for it oooo wait well, I have in the past I don't need it atm with packages like postgresql I sometimes need > 1 installed what would've happened if I had a huge install of GNUe Forms 0.4.1 forms and the upgrade to 0.5.0 isn't something I could just do quickly (as the format completely changed) but I needed a few forms on 0.5.0 suck it up bitch! convert them all Action: jcater is being somewhat serious of course, I wouldn't find myself in that position yeah since my forms always get tested =) that's why I've had to run 2 postgresql Sure, I can do that. I'd prefer to wait until after Sarge to make that possible, though. err, we weren't asking you to make the debs do that as much as showing the need for source installs to support multiple installations jbailey: can you check the logs jamest: From when? and installing into site-packages would make multiple installs a bi0tch today about 1 hour ago tops maybe 2 Cool. what's gnue-dbtools? Blargh! The online logs aren't timestamped. =) it's an act of desperation chillywilly: don't ask such irrelevant questions! :) HEH I have a lame ass importer app found it. takes a specially formatted python dict {} and loads data files into a database i need this to handle the USPS zipcode data that i get on cd now and to handle a shitload a flatfile tax info I'll be getting tomorrow all told it'll be about 10-15 little variations on this app and I need his app too jcater has similar need for data for a project I started today so if jamest and jcater need it, doesn't that automatically qualify it as GNue code? =) it's also a place for things like gnue-schema simple db apps nothing like our big guns jcater: you're going to make me hafta close kmail cause it keeps notifying me and it's annoying ;) if you used pine you wouldn't have that problem we need an irc bot that posts cvs commit logs :) pine is non-free and non-annoying I wouldn't be using pine mutt fuck i tried mutt I can turn the notifications off chillywilly: use evolution it's so damn slow no way I doubt it'd annoy you w/notifications :) i forced myself to use it alot as pine was "evil" jamest: one word.... elm sylpheed ;P Action: jamest nukes MS I use sylpheed Action: jcater notes he's still at work in TN shit Action: chillywilly is still working too at home chillywilly: I'm not working I'm just at work yipeee =) heh why? too lazy to drive home isn't your honey gonna whip you? no omg honey is visiting her mom in TX HEH on a huge shopping spree what'll be bad to Mexico w/ your son? ja (on phone for a sec) aw man (look out) is when he's still saying that come monday morning we'll be smelling the funk via irc not true I have windex sitting next to my monitor so we'll get that ammonia smell? ;P ToyMan (~stuq@user-0cevdks.cable.mindspring.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" :) is it big fat greek wedding where the geek dad thinks windex can like heal evrything? greek hehe, cool typo ;) yeah Vegetarian!?!? It's okay, we'll cook lamb! :) I thought lamb was a fruit. Can vegetarian's eat fruit? what is goat? DEpends on the fruit. no way dude If it's moving or has moved, then I avoid it. vegetables only ;) Fruit move? jamest: If you leave it long enough. must be a canadian thing does fruit moo? The Wild Canadian Furry Banana roams the mountains of Canada haha kiwis have fur kiwi friut therefore vegetarians cannot eat them yea, that's it AS log as they don't move. I'm off the phone now. (going back to reading what a site thingamajigger is) so you can't eat rolling fruit? yea those damn thingamajigger z chillywilly: No fruit rolls, just jelly rolls. Action: chillywilly hurls trout at jbailey chillywilly: i'd throw lamb remember he can only eat vegies and fruit he doesn't eat fish though so I think trout will do the job yeah, i wanted you to throw something usefull to him like fruit it is my weapon of choice lamb fruit fruit of the lamb? Now comes in tighty whities. you eat that? Action: jamest backs away Action: chillywilly thinks jbailey probably wears a loin cloth made of tortilla or some lentil based material ;P no hemp lentils. That way people will eat it off of me. jamest: No, lamb's a moving fruit. jcater: You still here, so I can explain when the .deb problem is? sdani (~sdani@host-209-214-50-66.tys.bellsouth.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" Nick change: SachaZzz -> SachaS we use to have a dog that never moved http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/oukoe_odd_britain_plate rofl lupo__ (lupo@pD954256E.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) lupo__ (lupo@pD954256E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: I'm trying to understand the IRC log from earlier. Basically, gnue is a collection of libraries with an application wrapper, yes? I don't see that this is much different than many other programs out there. a gnue app is basically a library all of gnue-forms resides in gnue.forms if moved to site-packages then /usr/lib/python2.x/site-packages/gnue/forms would be forms the gnue-forms executable is nothing but a tiny python wrapper that sets up the environment and then does (basically) well, does exactly from gnue.forms.GFClient import * if __name__ == '__main__': GFClient().run() gnue-forms is 43 lines long what the concern was if we move from /usr/local/gnue/lib/python/ to /usr/lib/python2.x/site-packages/ then all gnue applications are now sitting in the site-packages directory we need an enlightened debian maintainer to discussion += 0.02 hello? Sorry Angie came home, and my dinner finished cooking, I'm back. (That was while I was looking up what else is in site-packages) Would it mostly site in site-packages/gnue ? the apps would i'd hope the etc would /etc Yes. the share/images would /usr/share etc Well, all of gnue should be in /usr/share/python2.3/site-packages. Since there's no computer-specific stuff that needs to be compiled. debconf is in site-packages. So is the apt library. apt is python? I didn't think so. I thought it was c++ Oh hmm. No python directory in /usr/share Action: jbailey looks at python policy again why would one need it? bash-2.05b$ ls /usr/local/gnue/shared/ dialogs images Because /usr/lib is supposed to be arch-specific stuff, and /usr/share is supposed to be arch-all i image this would be /usr/share/gnue/images|dialogs our share is arch all well yeah, i think that's right 'kay alandd (~alandd@h-66-167-132-163.PHNDAZ91.covad.net) joined #gnuenterprise. I think then for your private installs, you can just use the setup.py --home target, too. and by doing this does it fix things for debian support? I'm here jamest: I suspect so. jcater: There's a few reasons I'm changing the packaging I suspect not (I'm also typing on a gilbc channel, so I'm typing slowly) does gnue have a policy about what to reuse (other gpl code) SachaS: we're willing to reuse stuff that fits in and has good license on smaller stuff we put in gnue.common.external so we don't increase dependencies jamest: if there is a gpl software gnue potentially could reuse it yes if it makes sense i guess there are different ways of reusing code: yes a) use api or "other" app b) copy past code (rather difficult) c) study coresuse ideas c was) study code, reuse ideas jcater: I've been trying to move towards a standard way of handling distutils stuff, to make it similar to other packages. jcater: The problem is that we're not very distutilsy. And right now it would be hard for someone who wasn't you or me to do any work on the packages. Also each new update requires custom patches to make it install that generally have to be touched from version to version. true however, I think the funky stuff we do to distutils Part of that was highlighted by this python2.3 conversion. doesn't have as much to do with whether it's installed into site-packages or into /usr/local/gnue as much as that we have to know where our other, non-python stuff is located In that people basically yelled 'phear' when looking at the rules file. Well.. distutils should understand and respect --prefix sure and not traceback on --nocompile. we don't override --prefix so that's a bug That's more what I'm worried about. most definitely After that it would behave sufficiently like distutils that it shouldn't cause me grief anymore. what ./setup.py command are you running? (digging) python2.3 setup.py --build-base=build python2.3 setup.py install --root=/foo/bar/gnue-common-0.5.1/debian/gnue-common --no-compile -O0 Blargh! The online logs aren't timestamped. =) i have stamped logs :) i can point you to them... we just dont make them "public": python2.3 setup.py --build-base=build doesn't do anything did you mean python2.3 setup.py build --build-base=build ? Yes, sorry ok, fix committed For which part? =) the commands you pasted work now w00t! incidentally, the section w/the code is independent of whether we put into /usr/local/gnue or site-packages which is what I feared So now I need to figure out how to put CVS into my .debs again, don't I? =) Action: jbailey digs out his notes. Action: derek read that as jbailey digs out his nose...... Better nose than nuts, I guess. derek: Check your email please. Question about python. ask it here :) alandd: Just paste the email. It'll be shorter than most pastes here, I'm sure. Action: derek goes to look at mail but warns i have been in meetings ALL day so am WAY behind OK, you asked for it. Minute please... The Python package that I was trying to install on the iPAQ last night was EVERYTHING! No wonder it wouldn't fit. What parts of python do I actually need on there? Here is a list of the possible packages, from which I have deleted the obviously not needed. Please help me pick if you will. Alan python-audio - Python Audio Handling python-cdb - Python CDB Library python-codecs - Python Codecs, Encodings & i18n Support python-compression - Python High Level Compression Support python-core - Python Interpreter and core modules (needed!) python-crypto - Python Cryptographic and Hashing Support python-curses - Python Curses Support python-db - Python File-Based Database Support python-distutils - Python Distribution Utility python-email - Python Email Support python-fcntl - Python's fcntl Interface python-gdbm - Python GNU Database Support python-html - Python HTML Processing python-image - Python Graphical Image Handling python-io - Python Low-Level I/O python-lang - Python Low-Level Language Support python-math - Python Math Support python-mime - Python MIME Handling APIs python-mmap - Python Memory-Mapped-File Support python-netclient - Python Internet Protocol Clients python-netserver - Python Internet Protocol Servers python-numpy - Python PyXML library python-optik - Python Optik Option Parser python-pexpect - Python Expect-like Module python-pickle - Python Persistence Support python-pprint - Python Pretty-Print Support python-pydoc - Python Interactive Help Support python-pygtk - a python wrapper for gtk support python-pysqlite - SQLite Database Support python-pyxml - Python PyXML library python-re - Python Regular Expression APIs python-readline - Python Readline Support python-resource - Python Resource Control Interface python-shell - Python Shell-Like Functionality python-stringold - Python Deprecated String APIs python-syslog - Python's syslog Interface python-terminal - Python Terminal Controlling Support python-threading - Python Threading & Synchronization Support python-unittest - Python Unit Tes You guys said! Hey it didn't all go... I'll go get the rest. python-unittest - Python Unit Testing Framework python-unixadmin - Python Unix Administration Support python-xml - Python basic XML support. python-xmlrpc - Python XMLRPC Support python-zlib - Python zlib Support. utils-py - Edward Muller's utils.py python module. Provides assistance to python-gtk applications There. python-core python-distutils(?) python-lang python-mime python-netclient python-re python-xml would be my guess I need the minimum number of packages to run gnue-common and gnue-forms on GTK. plus python-gtk then jcater: thanks. any other input? good luck! Action: alandd goes to get the packages suggested so far :) I'm not sure what python-resource is a resource control UI? Action: alandd guessing jcater: Might've missed one spot, just a se. Seems though it's respecting the prefix, but still adding usr/local on it. checking it. Oh looks like my bad. it's slurping version 2.2. That's fine for now, if it actually works. The distutils still uses --root, instead of --prefix (seems crazy that I can't do root and prefix, but distutils doesn't like it. Been there done that) dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.169.225) joined #gnuenterprise. Some of it is on! Behold: /home/alandd # python Python 2.2 (#1, Mar 25 2002, 02:01:31) [GCC 2.95.4 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> brb jcater: Still there? for a second jcater: cvs gnue-common seems to respect --root, but not --prefix When I use --root, it dutifully puts things in debian/gnue-common/usr/local/gnue/... When I use prefix, I fail at: running install_lib creating /usr/local/gnue error: could not create '/usr/local/gnue': Permission denied --root seems like the right option, but it's not obvious to me. I've tried playing with a combo of --root and --prefix (The -nocompile definetly works now, thanks!) Action: jcater has to look up what --prefix and --root are is there a setup.cfg file? as I can't figure out where else it'd even know about /usr/local/gnue ls as we don't have that path specified anywhere There's one here now, lemme see if I tar'd it up instead. There's a setup.cfg.in that I guess generates it. b Should I set the paths in this thing? ah if sys.platform != 'win32': os.system ("""cp %s setup.cfg""" % setupcfg) bugger cvs up and see if that works Doens't look like it. Just making sure I didn't do something stupid. It still created the setup.cfg Oh. Can you do a substring? I think it's --prefix= err. --prefix=foo crikey hmm I can change it for now for testing. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "sleep" That's one solution. =) Ah, it seems to traceback if I use space instead of = Ah well, tomorrow's gig. Hmm. patches setup.cfg.in, and somewhat better. This gives me stuff to work with. Bed time now! jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Client exiting" did you guys fix the build system? nm Action: chillywilly read back scroll Nertz! this minimal approach still ran out of room. I am going to have to loose the network card and use a flash drive for isntallation. Back to serial PPP to the desktop. derek: Any chance on more ipaq resources? I'm gonna start from scratch and set it so /usr is on the flash card. That should give me enough room! alandd: what i you trying to fit on the ipaq? jamest: python just enough to run gnue-common and gnue-forms I could start with a fully stripped down linux envornment but I didn't want to have to figure that out right now. I'll get to the real gnue test work faster running out of a flash card. I only have one slot so with the flash card in, i'll loose the network card and have to use the serial interface. usable but not as slick. one word: zaurus ;) Action: chillywilly runs away I keep tellin' you, send the money and I'll buy all this stuff you say I should have. ;^) Action: alandd too tired to give chase. --- Fri Sep 19 2003