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<reinhard> reading the logs
<reinhard> if jbailey ask i will fix later today
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<Arturas> good morning
<reinhard> hi Arturas
<Arturas> hello Reinhard :)
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<thierry> morning all
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<btami> hello reinhard
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<reinhard> hi btami
<btami> reinhard: i think all the win32 specific environ magic is deprecated
<btami> in gnue-* scripts
<reinhard> you think?
<reinhard> you mean it would work without?
<btami> yes
<reinhard> errmmmm
<reinhard> *how* sure are you about that?
<btami> i'v tried it with gnue-schema and gnue-appserver
<reinhard> shall we risk to remove it?
<btami> i think so
<reinhard> in the cvs logs i found an entry that it was done for mcmillian
<btami> ?
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<reinhard> "fixes to setup.py for mcmillan install
<reinhard> "
<reinhard> is what jcater wrote when he introduced that magic
<reinhard> 22 months 2 weeks ago :)
<btami> in what tool's setup.py ?
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<reinhard> gnue-forms
<reinhard> i looked there because it's the "oldest" setup.py
<reinhard> and was actually always the first one to get things done originally
<reinhard> jbailey: thanks for your testing yesterday
<reinhard> i will fix that later today
<reinhard> i actually expeced it :)
<btami> reinhard: ok, i will try mc'millan with new scripts
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<jbailey> ROAR! I hate compuers!
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<jbailey> damned computer froze and wouldn'lt start again.
<jbailey> Anyhow.
<jbailey> reinhard: So you saw the logs from yesterday?
<reinhard> yes
<jbailey> Cool.
<jbailey> Those were the only lintian warnings left on gnue-common - So after that it's lovely to put in.
<ajmitch> hi jeff
<jbailey> Heya Andrew
<ToyMan> morning all
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<btami> reinhard: we are in a big trouble with mc'millan :(
<btami> the new paths.py is generated with c:\python23 etc-etc
<btami> but when we want to use the packaged exe's
<btami> maybe python23 is not exist
<btami> and the whole gnue structure is will be under C:\Program Files\gnue
<btami> the first error i got:
<btami> Unable to load the connections definition file.
<btami> Location: "c:\python23\etc\connections.conf"
<reinhard> hmmm
<btami> the problem is the 2 phase installation
<btami> 1. setup.py install on packagers box
<reinhard> mc'millan should write a correct paths.py
<reinhard> can it do that?
<btami> 2. when someone runs setup.exe
<btami> and wants to install gnue into any directory
<btami> but paths.py is frozen in setup.exe
<btami> generated by 1.
<reinhard> ok understand
<reinhard> what about if our paths.py look something like
<reinhard> if sys.platform == "win32":
<reinhard>   lib = os.path.dirname (__file__)
<reinhard>   data = ....
<reinhard>   ...
<reinhard> else:
<reinhard>   [what we have now in paths.py]
<reinhard> ?
<reinhard> of course it would be better if we could tell setup.exe how to create a corretct paths.py
<btami> i'm a little confused about lib
<btami> where we use it?
<reinhard> currently in only one place
<reinhard> setup of other tools (beside common) looks there where to install python files
<reinhard> btami: let me warn you
<reinhard> it's possible that more parameters are added today to paths.py
<reinhard> to achieve both conformance with debian and fhs as well as compatiblity we might need parameters like
<reinhard> share = ...
<reinhard> man = ...
<reinhard> doc = ...
<reinhard> well man and doc would not be used by the applications
<btami> ok,i think the if sys.platform == "win32": will solve the
<btami> mcmillan problem
<btami> but i'm very sorry, have to run now for pick-up kids
<btami> bbl
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<dneighbo_> reinhard: can you take a look at twisted matrix in regards to appserver
<reinhard> twisted matrix?
<dneighbo_> it seems very interesting at the least it looks like it could be a "driver" for common
<reinhard> i know "twister" and "matrix" are two movies
<dneighbo_> at best we could merge our needs into it and be further along
<jamest> oooooo
<jamest> that's the one with hellen hunt in a tight white tshirt
<jamest> we can have something like that in GNUe?
<dneighbo_> Twisted is a framework, written in Python, for writing networked applications. It includes implementations of a number of commonly used network services such as a web server, an IRC chat server, a mail server, a relational database interface and an object broker. Developers can build applications using all of these services as well as custom services that they write themselves. Twisted also includes a user authentication system t
<dneighbo_> hat controls access to services and provides services with user context information to implement their own security models.
<dneighbo_> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/products/twisted
Nick change: dneighbo_ -> derek
Action: derek has been in talks with some companies really ready to sink resources into GNU Enterprise
<derek> the general buzz is providing something that allows a more "real time" enterprise
<derek> you might remember LONG ago in the appserver talks (back when andrews were here)
<derek> that there was the argument about when to implement a "gcd"
<derek> i.e. did you put it on a timer?
<derek> did you load it immediately
<derek> etc
<derek> and one scenario was you waited until all transactions relient on it stopped before implementinig
<derek> i.e. if you just changed some tax calculating method you wouldnt want to apply it mid way through payroll
<derek> you would want all payroll transactions to stop first etc...
<derek> any this "real time" approach is desired
<derek> anyhow i havent fully looked at twisted.. i have browsed it a half dozen times
<derek> but since you guys are trucking on appserver again i thought maybe you would want to look at it
<reinhard> derek: thanks
<Vee2d2> that pynfo info bot uses twisted
<Vee2d2> chilly's been trying to pimp it (twisted) for months 
<derek> yes... im not certain there is inherit value in it
<derek> just far enough along now its worth looking at
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<derek> im going to try "offline" mail again
<derek> thunderbird sucked at it
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<derek> i have switched back to gnome and evolution (god help my soul)
<derek> and will see how evolution does with it
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<jbailey> reinhard: When should I check back on the gnue-common patches?  If you're likely to get them done before 20h00 GMT or so, I can get them in today's upload.
<jbailey> (And get the python2.3 transition people off of my back)
<jbailey> If not, no worries, I'll just do it when I get home from work tonight.
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<reinhard> 20h00 GMT ... hmm...
<reinhard> what GMT do we have now?
<reinhard> is it 14:30 or 18:30?
<reinhard> (i always confuse the direction
<jbailey> 14:30
<reinhard> ok then it should be no problem at all
<reinhard> thanks jbailey
<jbailey> Luvly, thanks.
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<reinhard> jbailey: can you pleas try again?
<reinhard> after cvs update
<reinhard> wrt to /usr/etc vs. /etc/gnue
<reinhard> did you use --prefix=/usr ?
<reinhard> oops
<reinhard> typo
<reinhard> fixing now
<reinhard> fixed
<reinhard> jbailey: it should work now
<reinhard> jbailey: i'll be off for about 2 hours now
<reinhard> will be back around 19:00 UTC
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<rm-away> ah well
<rm-away> jbailey: you could try gnue-appserver, too
<rm-away> if you like
<rm-away> and
<rm-away> this version of gnue-common will most probably break existing packages of gnue-forms
<rm-away> really away now
<jbailey> rm-away / reinhard: Thanks, I will give it a try.
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<reinhard> jbailey: any results yet?
<jbailey> Not yet - wife's at home on the computer, so I can't really compile anything.
<jbailey> She'll eat me for making it slow.
<jbailey> Sorry 'bout that.  I missed 20h00, didn't I? =)
<reinhard> not yet - still half an hour
<reinhard> no problem
<reinhard> it's not a matter of today or tomorrow
<jbailey> W: gnue-common: script-not-executable ./usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/gnue/common/external/fixedpoint.py
<jbailey> Should I just kludge around this, and chmod +x it in my script?
<jbailey> It's the only warning left.
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<jcater> gack!
<jcater> hey psu
<psu> good evening
<reinhard> jbailey: why does lint think it _should_ be executable?
<reinhard> oh maybe because it starts with #!
<reinhard> can you define somewhere that it is actually no script?
<reinhard> it doesn't need to be executable at all
<reinhard> btw: jbailey can you commit the ./debian directory to packagin/debian?
<reinhard> (once it works)
<reinhard> as i see it: did you use --install-lib=/usr/lib/gnue ?
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<reinhard> we actually had consens about the fact that gnue shouldn't go in site-packages
<reinhard> old packages in debian did install in --install-lib=/usr/lib/gnue/lib/python
<reinhard> although i'm not sure if that directory makes sense
<reinhard> i would rather do something like --install-lib=/usr/lib/gnue
<reinhard> or /usr/lib/gnue/python
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<jbailey> reinhard: I've just done --prefix.  Should I do the --install-lib bit too?
<reinhard> yes please
<jbailey> 'kay.
<jbailey> Debian policy says that pretty much anything that starts with #! should be executable.
<jbailey> But it's a warning not an error.  I can ignore it,.
<reinhard> i leave it up to you if you choose /usr/lib/gnue/lib/python (which would be compatible with old forms/reports packages
<reinhard> or /usr/lib/gnue/python or /usr/lib/gnue (which seems more sane to me)
<jbailey> I don't have enough information to choose that.
<jbailey> All of those seem compatible with policy.
<jbailey> So mostly it's a matter of sticking with the direction that upstream (you) wants to take.
<jcater> I based it on what zope was doing
<jcater> fwiw
<jcater> whether that's right, wrong, or indifferent
<jbailey> My only exposure to Zope left me wanting to find strong narcotics.
Action: jcater takes that with a grain of salt considering the source of it likes autotools, hurd, glibc, etc
Action: jcater hides
<jbailey> Fair 'nuff. =)
<chillywilly> zope sucks
<chillywilly> ;P
<jbailey> I just keep looking for something for python that does what Enhydra Lutris did for Java.
<jbailey> And nothing quite does that yet.
<chillywilly> what's so special about zope?
<jcater> ?
<jcater> who said anything about it being special?
<chillywilly> nevermin I didn't read the whole backscroll
<chillywilly> nevermind
<chillywilly> I didn't think psu was allowed in this channel ;)
<chillywilly> muwahhaha
<chillywilly> I didn't think I was either
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<reinhard> the question is do we like something other so much better to justify breaking compatibility
<reinhard> or do we stick
<reinhard> it's in the hands of you now
<reinhard> (jcater + jbailey)
<reinhard> you have full choice with --install-libs
<chillywilly> heh, that's officially a *punt*
<Vee2d2> how do you back out a commit in cvs? checkout the ver prior to the commit and recommit that?
<jbailey> FWIW on the Debian side.  Our user count is likely to be exactly 0.
<jbailey> (Plug or minus 20% of that)
<jcater> Vee2d2: yeah
<chillywilly> Vee2d2: I thought we covered this already ;)
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<Vee2d2> how do you check out a specific revision of a file? :)
<Vee2d2> chillywilly: probably.. 
<chillywilly> cvs -r revision
<chillywilly> cvs -r revision fole
<chillywilly> file even
<chillywilly> there's a quick one command method to revert
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> hold on
<Vee2d2> cvs co -r ?
<Vee2d2> got it
<Vee2d2> up
<Vee2d2> hmm.. I dont think that's working.. I cvs up -r 1.1 file, then tried to cvs ci -m "woops" file but it didnt take.. tried touching it first, too.. 
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<chillywilly> there's a better way to revert
<jcater> Vee2d2: cp that file to a tmp file
<jcater> then cvs update -A <file>
<jcater> then cp tmp file back
<jcater> there may be a quicker way
<jcater> and if chilly finds it, I'm all ears
<jcater> but I know that way works
<chillywilly> I pasted it here the other day ;)
<chillywilly> I should ssh to the debian box and read the damn book
<chillywilly> aste$ cvs update -j 1.4 -j 1.3 hello.c
<chillywilly> paste$ cvs ci -m "reverted to 1.3 code" hello.c
<Vee2d2> thanks ya'll
<chillywilly> np
<jcater> cool
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<ajmitch> morning
<chillywilly> yo
<reinhard> night all
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<jbailey> did anyone ever decide whether we're breaking compatability or not?
<jbailey> I'd like to know so I can upload this package to Debian.
<jcater> breaking compatability with what?
<jbailey> Existing forms installs.
<jcater> ah
<jcater> I
<jcater> I'd say yes
<ajmitch> oh, does it matter?
<jbailey> So I'll do as reinhard suggests and  --install-lib=/usr/lib/gnue
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<R45> pardon the nick changes
<jbailey> jcater: you there?
<jcater> yes
<jbailey> I'm about to commit the new debian/rules file to gnue-common.  I'll let you know when it's done.
<jbailey> I think..  You'll understand why I've been pushing to get this fixed for so long once you see it. =)
<jbailey> Oh, hmm.
<jbailey> You guys want it in packaging/debian, don't you.
<jbailey> Blargh./
<jbailey> I wonder if I could make it work through a symlink.
<jbailey> jcater: Committed.
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<chillywilly> derek!
<jbailey> The mater debater himself!
<chillywilly> uh?
<chillywilly> it's masta to you!
<jbailey> Not at all. =)  I'm not one of the slaves.
<jbailey> If I were, I would do far less work.
<derek> wasup
<derek> hey jim tracey (sp) is a decent maintainer!
Action: derek gives him uber props for addressing bug reports in a nice concise, accurate and pleasant manner
<derek> as well as working with upstream developers very closely
<derek> major kudos...
<derek> er james treacy
<chillywilly> wtf are you talking about?
<chillywilly> hmmm, on second thought nevermind
<derek> chillywilly: i was complaining ot jbailey last week about debian maintainers...
<chillywilly> I don't want to know
<derek> well not complaining...
<chillywilly> build gentoo ;)
<derek> asking what "policy" was on submitting bugs
<derek> i.e. if the application doesnt do what i expect but it has NOTHING to do with the packaging should one submit it to BTS or to the applications own bug tracking
<chillywilly> oh no you gave jbailey cvs write access?!? ;P
<derek> how he described things appears to be exactly how treacy handled a complex bug report i submitted to GRAMPS
<derek> was just commenting to jbailey that he appeared to be a model debian developer :)
<chillywilly> theoretically I think you should be able to go to the distro developers and they can go upstream for you
<derek> yes
<jbailey> chillywilly: I've had cvs write access from the beginning. =)
<jbailey> chillywilly: I used to have write access to all the projects on subversions.
<jbailey> I just didn't give it up on projects I was vaguely interested in. =)
<chillywilly> bleh
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--- Wed Oct  1 2003