hi dude that leaping call was mental who gives a crap if you contact the person on the way down as long as you don't hang out on their back hm i have no idea, chillywilly life can seem so unfair that's all i know were you watching it? bah, most geeks here run away when I talk about sports ;) oh, were you talking about the Texas Chainsaw Massacre coming out on Oct 18? oh a sport MNF yeah, no i dont do that :) Monday Night Football oh crap, football? no way sheesh, such girly wussies football is good for superbowl commercials. except the only good one is already past, in 1984 at least da masta watches sports (and plays too( yeah that may in fact be why is he is da masta s/is he/he/ they made some really lame call when the colts were going for a field goal it was pretty weak, imho sounds good er bad. that's bad, right? lame calls are lame! lame is bad! yea it's bad yeah lame is bad. thx cw we're not down with 'bad' Aaaaaaaaaawwnold is gonan be the CA governor I betcha yep good thing you got out while the gettin' is good ;) 00:06 i met a guy in #mplayer today who's in Austria, and he says Austria is about to take over CA ;) tell ya the thruth I think CA is a crappy state all around ;P oh pewpi on yew I shouldn't be typing on this stupid thing my wrist is killing me it is the source of virtually all progress in the modern world CA? not to mention raw materials, crops, and intellectual products yes yea right it has a large sampling of most major global climates and terrains it's the fifth largest economy in the world it's got its own Omnimax movie! CA sucks ok heheh, Awnold's theme song is "We're not gonna take it" by Twisted Sister oh my. frightening hehe hey there's a special high performance version of mplayer remeber the video? called mplayerxp yessir "what are you gonna do with your life?" mplayerxp == mplayer + threads hehe "I wanna rock" hahah hits the guitar strings and blows his old man out the window yeah classic funny tuff stuff wasn't that the same guy as in "girls just wanna have fun" or maybe "fight for your right to party"? the father? I don't remember what any of them look like yeah Lou Albino, the wrestler i think that was his name man sigfreid & roy tiger attack was pretty gruesome hmmmm ?! i didn't hear of that I think I know that guy yea roy or sigfried (I dunno which one) got mauled by a bengal tiger whoa. well it's about time! they're show is canceled indefinitely who knows what they've been doing to those tigers over the years locking em up in cages, putting em in glass boxes for kids to rap on :/ oh wait, that's a human. i'm suppose to be sad go humans! yay, team! md-bk-0800CET (mdupont@p5080E928.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) chillywilly: anyway yeah that sucks yea cause people deserve to be mauled well, if they trap tigers for a living then things might happen or they were raised from cubs better than some Indian pocher getting them hehe (I mean a guy form India of course not a native american) Bengals tigers are also an endangered species ya know bummer go tigers! http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/2535892/detail.html omg dude twisted sister played at his campaign party D. Sneider was there he does "house of hair" on one of our local radio stations, iirc like every sunday (haven't listened to it in a long time) that guy rewls he's pretty smart smarter than you'd expect a person to be after having seen Twisted Sister heheh http://media.rtl.nl/yorinfm/eddo/filmtop5/honey.mpg yea he's a bit intelligent but Ted Nugent has got to be my fav old skool rocker ;) fun-ay Ted Nugent rewls oic hehe, nice flick http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/100603ap_nw_tiger_attack.html he hit the tiger with a microphone on the cheek several time then it got pissed off and attacked him HEH DUH http://media.rtl.nl/yorinfm/eddo/filmtop5/honey.mpg woops hmmm http://goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031007/OPINION07/110070298 heh whoa. :/ okay then, pissing off tigers is officially off my agenda btw Disturbed is really really really really good imho he did raise him from a cub though so there was no "stealing" of wild tigers yeah i'd say that's a plus if you want them to be docile there's still no guarantees they're still wild animals yeorp unpredictable hehe i found some of my really old posts to alt.non.sequitur reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. 20 weeks have passed. Still crossing the river of dust. I saw a sign 12 miles back saying, "Here lies BSD." HAHA funny mr. Bethe ;) hehe man you're such a post whore yeah i like to have the obscure cult references chillywilly: you should read that entire thread from the beginning it was truly excellent the responses were so far out what is the point of that new group anyway? one guy gave me this whole diatribe on the mechanics of time ha! what's the point of nonsequitur?! hee hee well if you have to ask.... ;) Action: Vee2d2 read the FAQ there is no point? good monring funny conversation this morning chillywilly: the point is to post lots of nonsequitur ness i read today's logs and it's talk exclusively about Austrians :) I don't know what that means and dict isn't helping me ;P reinhard: silly germanic peoples Action: chillywilly hides mdupont (mdupont@p5080E063.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hey dewds hi hm i just figured out how to rip full length videos off of mtv.com wow despite their secret embedded redirector urls and files do you really want to talk about that here? and javascript obviously he doesn't care well it's not like talking about killing the... oh wait, this is publicly logged so nm on that one. i'm just saying that the lengths they go to are pretty .. uh..... long he knows it's publicly logged for all the world to see adn fro th4e feds to poor over with their Patriot Act-enabled survaillence techniques yeah :-/ plus Carnivore and DMCA adn i knwo I spelt that wrong nor can I type i promise not to take you all down with me sorry chillywilly i got you all so emotional that you lost a grip on your keybd mplayer is pretty sophisticated fyi it should be somehow integrated with gnue. so hey mdupont: hi I have an idea that will make money for gnue caramel apples upon every login :-o~~~~ we need SAP/PeopleSoft/Siebel interfaces oh. ok. yeah we'll do that too. to do that we need the SDK for testing so we need one license hey is Peoplesoft doin ok after Oracle's insanity? at least ummm, mdupont the point of GNUe is to provide a Free replacement to those prop. wares plus yes, but we need to coexist to be able to migrate the data over I think GNUe is really targeted more at SMEs and people who cannot even afford such software and we need to have some type of testing center all IMHO of course where free software developers can test thier software against a live SAP intstance still this issue mdupont :) hey dcmwai, you awake? ;) so what I think is that we need to form a company that holds non-free software license for usage by its employees a testing lab it would be quite an ordeal to migrate from any of those, considering that any installment is going to have been a massive infrastructural integration to begin with yes, there the customization although at any moment a client of companies liek Peoplesoft could find themselves hopelessly dependant and alienated, like if Oracle bought Peoplesoft. did Oracle buy Peoplesoft yet? skwashd (~dave@c211-28-147-2.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au) joined #gnuenterprise. but there is also the basic thables hi all we also need to have an oracle license mdean: heya ... long time no see we support oracle and sapdb mdupont: it might be something you'd want to undertake yourself first... almost always things like this require a proof of concept, sometimes before even much public discussion so my idea is a holding company that holds developers licences for these these non-free software skwashd: hey there and makes them available to members dtm: well this idea needs to have backing, it is not like one person can do it on thier own personally, I would like to have SAP experience.... sounds pretty darn expensive at least to know how it is setup hey dtm if you have 200 investors of $1000 then you are still cheap *boggle* okay, you just go ahead and do that :) seems to me that you'd first want mass adoption by the initial target audience such as (hehee) the developers themselves dtm: would you not pay $100 for being able to use all these software for testing? for SAP ... isn't the db now GPL? mdupont: fuck no. and that's putting it mildly :) dtm: ok, so your customers dont demand these interfaces skwashd: yep sapdb is GPL'd that is correct and we have drivers for it mdupont: you ever hear of clean room implementation? yes of course chillywilly: cool ... i know someone who is writing a phplib class for it for phpgw using big ERP player's schema is asking for legal trouble, imho mdupont: i dont mean to be premature in my assumptions, especially as a developer, but it seems to me that you'd want mass adoption by the initial target audience to start with, and that like chillywilly says, clean room http://web.mit.edu/sapr3/modules.html MIT has an SAP installation i will talk to them. mdupont: before even attempting such a thing on a project-wide basis. what you're talking about is more suitable for an individual or small group to do as a proof of concept to start with. i dont want to use thier schema from what i can tell. dtm: you are right for me I am just thinking of this holding company like the OSDL mdupont: i mean, you doing it is one thing, and you asking for mass support is quite another but a CSDL- closed source developement lab gnue developers are often pretty saturated :) and the guts need a lot of work although are suitable for some deployment afaik am i correct, chillywilly ? i think it'd be a matter of priorities for most people 2-tier apps can be built quickly...appserver is coming along and will be released soon, no official gnue packages, no applications, there's start of work on gnue small business mdupont: and a CSDL would require a pretty hefty charter chillywilly: neato chillywilly: how's gnue-sb doing chillywilly: i read the web site appserver is not feature complete afaik, but you can ask reinhard more about taht that mdupont: a charter that covers the major social and legal issues I think it has stalled some Action: skwashd returns to learning OOP js ... ewww ok Vee2d2, jcater, and derek were mainly working on that I think skwashd: whoa! far out JS OO is weird ok dtm: i am trying to write a GPL'd DHTML UI toolkit for phpgw i've never heard of such a thing what chillywilly says about appserver is correct skwashd: huh. well, dtm, it is fair to be sceptical i will try and get an login at MIT they have this all setup mdupont: well i'm not just trying to be skeptical; i'm trying to be practical dtm: to make it so the phpgw ui is a lot better then I can make a SAP interface and gpl that I think interfacing with the big ERP players is probably not a top priority right now and may never become one mdupont: i might be offbase in my assumptions of others' priorities, but i'd say that your best chances at adoption are with a proof of concept, starting with a charter, based on past experience yeah hopefully gnue will be the Apache of ERP, in that the developers initially consider it "a patchy" project but that it is so well conceived and well timed that it takes over ok oh yeah, and also that everything else sucks so well well, i still think I could sell GNUE better if we had an SAP gateway even if just socially and legally, if not technically we could sell customized modules that use SAP data mdupont: have you already sold GNUe deployment? making other systems transparent dtm: I am talking to some people, about making a telcom billing system skwashd: are you going to write a wrapper so that I can follow the ECMA stnadards and use the same api on all browsers and it just "works" ;) based on gnue mdupont: oh yeah skwashd: you would be my hero then ;P but it is going to need to export financial data to SAP chillywilly: that is the plan yeah skwashd is pretty good the bills should be posted later to SAP chillywilly: the idea is the there will be a dhtml class .... which handles all the browser quirks and the customers should be cross referenced skwashd: ok, well good luck to you cause it does not sound fun ;) Action: chillywilly kciks JS around some kicks even so for example .... var elm - dhtml.getElm(elm_name); thierry (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) joined #gnuenterprise. s/-/=/ chillywilly: yeah .... it will be a pita getElementById() weee chillywilly: thanks .... first bug found ;) haha hi all hello chillywilly hey chillywilly: yeah .... but it will do document.layers etc or document.all[] ewwww bleh I thought document.layers was deprecated or not part of the standard chillywilly: its for NN4 lusers Opera and Konq are the other 2 which will be supported right, but what I'd like is a uniform api that hides all the broken JS crap...so I can use the DOM and not have to freakin do object testing ;) this uniform api being the ECMA standard of course ;) skwashd: If you make the form an XUL (for mozilla) it would be Nice :) chillywilly: you use the dhtml obj which i will write .... for the fudging dcmwai: i didn't mention forms ;) dcmwai: but xul is next on the list skwashd: eh,, anything... : other thing that bugs me is IE has a broken ass event model...I mean the events (especially key events) don't even fire in the proper order lame it broke my slick input masking damn IE skwashd: that will be good.. mozilla will be able to use it :) ;P chillywilly: are you trying to encourage me? yes :)....how am I doing? dcmwai: i have some nice xul plans chillywilly: i am getting tempted to go pay for HeirMenus :P skwashd: Tell me "Some" of the some :-/ I can't help it that JS is the nightmare that it is ;) dcmwai: a phpgw full screen mode ... which makes it like a desktop app with some nice xmlrpc xul bits Action: dcmwai wounder did JS have a standard like w3c? skwashd: NICE :) it has an ECMA standard ECMAScript dcmwai: yeah ECMA... all browser support it? i have been playing with penzilla a little dcmwai: I wish dcmwai: no ... that is the problem :( chillywilly: do you know how to get smooth scrolling on changing the height of a div? skwashd: who are the outlaw browser? for drop down menus dcmwai: konq, IE, opera moz is pretty good :) Just too buggy :( konq == crap ... it is the open src IE! have a few thounsand Bug unsolve... skwashd: I agree :) dcmwai: don't look at the phpgw tracker the only thing i like about konq is fish:// :) phpgw tracker? why we have several hundred open fish:// to edit files in ssh? :) ja should ask the gnome people to implement it :) :) i run knoppix on my laptop ... so i am stuck with it atm atm? and i have RH7.3 with homebase installed on the linux side of my workstation what is that? atm == at the moment\ oh :) I like KDE but be truth.. knoppix did support most laptop well... chillywilly: i generally like it ... but konq is a sh1t browser better then all major distribution. I don't like Gnome 2 and how it lost all its features adn/or forcing me to use gconf-editor Action: dcmwai don't like kde... find it too hard to control dcmwai: i had RH8 on it ... it shat me ... so i tried woody .... no go ... knoppix worked a treat kde 3.x rules Action: Vee2d2 likes it all Action: dcmwai kick kde3 :) cause problem all the time :) how? apt-get install kde-core ;P apt-get install photoshop Action: skwashd dreams chillywilly: Hey you are using debian.. and I'm using redhat.. They are MUCH different... well I think redhat cripples kde on purpose ;) I've to remove the WHOLE kde from redhat and the get the kde from redhat-kde project at sourceforge... You sure? :) dcmwai: i only run RH so i can play with homebase .... everything else i do is debian all debian here :) http://www.libertyetech.com/debian-bootsplash.png :) that makes yer debian real pretty ;) Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away Action: skwashd starts hax0ring js Action: dcmwai like mac Start Screen.. Just Icon :) http://www.libertyetech.com/cw-desktop.png No text ;) dcmwai: it has a silent mode with progress bar on boot up, to see boot messages you have to hit F2 chillywilly: is still using the old "TEXT" base irc :) oh really.. using grub? cause xchat sucks imho PLUS irc is text based isnt it? Action: Vee2d2 checks I can run irssi in screen chillywilly: haha.. what is the plus and reconnect to the same irc session from anywhere I see Vee2d2: :P I am actually ircing form my server I detach all the time when dorking around with my laptop I ssh back in and do screen -r bam back to irc still running even if I rebooted my laptop ;P no one knows I was gone ;) you gotta remember to detach though, eh? been a while since I've screened nope chillywilly: I know... cause when you are gone you just slient :) I could just close the console my irc session will still be there I know... [15:04] Define a new standard tag called "STREAMNAME". Make ices2 be able to add that in dynamically. Get all the common clients to display that by default. [15:05] So, if you get people to agree to add that new standard tag, and you get at least a lot of common clients to display it by default, I'll change ices2 to be able to add it dynamically. Deal? anyone agree :) :-D chillywilly: man even though i do the same thing now, i used to run xchat in VNC constantly for about a year or two tightvnc, that is yea, that's a similar principle ;) need food chillywilly: do you know how to save the current scrollback buffer of a given irssi window, to a file? skwashd: Just to ask.. sometime when we are adding some new item, We have have to add the same things agian and agains, so do you hava a copy funtion for that? in your appserv any idea on how it can be done using Javascript + PHP? dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dtm: ummm, crap...I know you can do it dtm: not off hand :( ok i'll gewgul dcmwai: what? Nick change: mdupont -> md-bk-2200CET skwashd: I'm trying to implement tha on aria-erp... So that people don't not need to key this same things over and over again... dcmwai: autocomplete in moz? Like Account information, Stock localtion, Category, Product Name (Where the product are very similar)... reload the form so it submits it again But just for a temport time... dcmwai: i would need to some work to do it skwashd: it is not a good way... (BTW, in aria-erp you can't really do reload) aria-erp .... what is that? I'm thinking trying to use the cookies.. so that will register it tempory :) Aria-erp is http://www.aria-erp.org :) skwashd: a php erp project. ah ok but how would it know what to autocomplete ... and what not to use again? skwashd: that is my problwm as well :( Action: dcmwai have no idea... dcmwai: this your project? or you just want to hack it in ? unless, I implementation a lock button on that. skwashd: I own that :) ah ok ... cool this is what you could go s/go/do ok. when the form is submitted ... cache the values in a variable then when you go to render it read in the default values hum, why don't I think about that way... haha thank you. for a phpgw app i wrote for a client .... i grab and cache all the values coming in .... what is phpgw? then validate ... if it fails ... throw them back to the same screen may I know phpgw == phpgroupware skwashd: Oh that is nice.. skwashd: so you are the phpgroupware author? i use the same form for add/edit ... then just decide which "defaults" are used based on what is happenign dcmwai: not "the" but one of many :) i am the api coordinator for the next 12mths skwashd: I like one of it feature.. using Smarty and really multiple DB compatibility smarty won't happen we are moving to our new xslt based tpl engine I've try it but... Sorry to say, it don't reallt catch my attension :( skwashd: oop sorry xslt base? and what do you mean by multiple db compat? it is a xslt template engine so it uses xslt for generating the output I mess phpgw with another group ware ...moregroupware sorry... isn't moregroupware nomoregroupware ... they are pretty dead aren't they? hehe nomoregroupware derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Connection timed out :) skwashd: hehe, that I don't know :) skwashd: what happened to milosch's venture? :) heheheh then there is Group?Where? milosch's project I drop it form my testing list !!!!!!!!!!!!!1 skwashd: oic skwashd: now that's clever very nice and EGroupware.Org or EGO for short :) phpgw fork skwashd: heard about opengroupware? dcmwai: yeah yeah, egroupware, as opposed to the non-electronic groupware i guess ogroupware skwashd: isn't that nice? dtm: OGW.o == OpenGroupWare I know phpgroupware is very strong but dare not try yep... dcmwai: i heard no one could install it s/yep/yet I can:) oh yeah, well. i was thinking ogroupware is optical groupware as opposed to egroupware's electronic groupware. haha dcmwai: wait for 0.9.16 to go final ... it will be pretty nice dtm: You must be joking. you know, they had to specify that it's explicitly of the electronic variety, hence the "e" dcmwai: yes, i must. the contacts backend will be pretty good dtm: the e stands for Enterprise skwashd: oic skwashd: you meant phpgroupware? skwashd: darn there went that joke. but they use eTemplates which scales worse than the phplib ones dcmwai: yeah dtm: just call it EGO we all do ... that is what the fork was over skwashd: I'll be wait for it... lol skwashd: why do they use them then? skwashd: oic wendall911 (~wendallc@198.31.172.218) left #gnuenterprise. dtm: cos ralf wrote it ... and he is so attached to it skwashd: I'm haiving too many stuff running on my web server... ah running rolodap for LDAP, Aria for accounting... blah blah blah dcmwai: around me i have about 10 phpgw installs on 2 machines skwashd: ok well in that kind of thinking, it sounds like the original phpgw :) planning (or not) the future based on the past dtm: things are different now ... so check out what is going on before throwing molotovs skwashd: i think you should port everything to mplayer skwashd: Just wounder, what is so good about xslt? skwashd: ha, throwing molotovs. sure. mplayer???? dude, mplayer can do *anything* dcmwai: so we can have different output for different clients oh... is that ture? M$ media player :) of Linux Media Player :) s/of/or mplayer foo.ogm -vop crop=html -vo calendar har???? yes, har did that run? well not yet! you guys haven't implemented it. dtm: you're silly chillywilly: well somebody's gotta do it seems phpgw is very dysfunctional dtm that is very tarrible... a mplayer use for this jobs... i.e., youse guys fight about a lot of things ;) hehe chillywilly: it happens chillywilly: We aren't not fightting yet :) not here ;) dcmwai: well you just join the team and wait and see! ;) GNUe == peace and harmony ;P unmatched tranquility chillywilly: phpgw is not dysfunctional aaaahhhh skwashd: you seem way too defensive chillywilly: oh that's just because GNUe has stuff like a plan, and established software engineering principles. you take that away and this place goes to the dogs! the most rude things it can happen in irc is Bite :) chillywilly: what? Action: dcmwai bitting here and there phpgw is in a period of transition youch! transition to what? chillywilly: to a new democratic structure getting rid of crud chillywilly: you just delete the roadmap, the documentationa, and the tiers of project infrastructure, and wait and see what happens I'm not knocking phpgw, just all I know of it is that the developers wanted to whoop each other ;) crud == apps + devs and you were shaking things up some ;) iirc chillywilly: wait and see what happens over the 12mths chillywilly: yep and that one dude was having a fit over it phpgw fall ;) which dude? ralf? dan? yea well not any of the current dans here ;) but dan k. nah ... dan is ok .... now ralf was mad! so he forked? chillywilly: yep *joy* Action: chillywilly forks gnue i spent a week with him in germany a couple of months ago did you box? ;P ??? what is this fork meant? the main things we talked about were .... how he could get eTemplates as the new tpl engine, how to kick out dan and how fucked ceb was dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) left irc: "Client exiting" dcmwai: that we got rid of the d1ckheads see that sounds dysfucntional chillywilly: he is ... the project wasn't/isn't :) yea but seems like everyone is bickering a lot ;) I dunno, we NEVER bicker here ;) i now have an extra 2hrs a day ... not having to deal with his bullsh1t hahhahahaa dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) joined #gnuenterprise. wb dcmwai chillywilly: i could spend hours on what is happening with phpgw .... gidday skwashd but i would prefer to do it ... rather than talk about it so back to coding heya ajmitch here to push phpgw? ;) skwashd: bah dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) left irc: Client Quit it's too late in the evening for me to do anything useful ajmitch: nope ... mdupont told me there was a discussion on sap db interfaces so i came along dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) joined #gnuenterprise. and it was all about how to reverse eng the schema then the topic moved to phpgw some how which is pointless ;P damn... forgot about the red button... it's dtm's fault i forget how we got to this point Just once click and clost all :( doh chillywilly: nah .... its all ajmitch's point s/point/fault not my fault! you blame everything on me :P ajmitch: yep! ajmitch: everyone else i blame is sleeping ;) now that's a pain ajmitch: or they forked ;) Action: ajmitch hugs his ajGroupware close ajGroupware!?! where?! ajmitch: we blame forkers more once they leave :P Action: skwashd starts phpGrumpyWare GoofyGroupware chillywilly: or ALATREN :P anyway... yea... at any rate... skwashd: have you told them what phpgw can do to enhance the productivity & viability of the GNU Enterprise project due to enhanced collaboration & synergy? ;) we should just do a SAP or Peoplesoft implementation in Java ;) Action: ajmitch grabs soap Action: chillywilly runs away as fast as he can Action: ajmitch shoves bar of soap in chillywilly's mouth ajmitch: nah they have DCL ;) true.. Action: skwashd bends over to pick up the soap ajmitch dropped ;) didn't you hear you're not supposed to drop the soap :-o least of all bend over amd pick it up ;) you spat it out of your mouth.. I didn't drop it and I certainly wouldn't bend over to pick it up if I did! chillywilly: i was just trying to be "friendly" :P heheh Action: skwashd notes some people here have dirty minds we're not *that* friendly here lol bleh, I am going to bed night chillywilly: cya night night all luckily I'm not here when I'm sleeping :) will be blame like hell :) ajmitch: lol .... http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/07/1065292571789.html dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) left irc: "Client exiting" heh dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) joined #gnuenterprise. dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) left irc: Client Quit ouch! dialog prior to loading each control on the page :) this is funnier ... http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/06/1065292519411.html dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) joined #gnuenterprise. typical... Stoke (~stoker@dpvc-141-149-254-50.buff.east.verizon.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. dimas__ (~dimas@195.218.177.46) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) Stoke (~stoker@dpvc-141-149-254-50.buff.east.verizon.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@user-0cevdks.cable.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (~jan@xdsl-213-196-211-205.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@user-0cevdks.cable.mindspring.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) left irc: "Client exiting" dimas_ (~dimas@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon394.tstt.net.tt) left irc: skwashd (~dave@c211-28-147-2.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au) left #gnuenterprise ("Client exiting"). ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dimas_ (~dimas@195.218.177.46) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Nick change: rm-away -> reinhard jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jamest helo dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: do you know if fixedpoint datatypes are passed to the dbdriver? I'm not shure if they are only used for internal calculations of reports, or not. IIRC I only used fixedpoint in internal calcs of reports I think i'd wouldn't mind seeing fixedpoint used everywhere as python rounding errors are starting to drive me nuts So just using two number types (fixedpoint and float) for whole gnue-common would be ok for you? I'm not shure if we need to keep float, as I don't know if fixedpoint can handle something like 3.23E+19 i'm not sure float can either :) bash-2.05b$ python Python 2.3.1 (#2, Sep 24 2003, 11:39:14) [GCC 3.3.2 20030908 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> 25.06 25.059999999999999 this is killing me wrt to sums and tax calculations jamest: you are so anal ;) let me rephrase that your auditors have problems with random numbers after the tens digit or what? ;) btw do we have a fix in site for this? the accounting deptartment is wanting to kill me regarding the miscalculated sums and tax amounts reinhard: GNU Enterprise pos i know it's biting jcater as well in gnue pos jamest: so add one more group to the "i wanna kill jamest" list... big deal ;) we talked about moving fixedpoint support into common but it would seem that *something* is supposed to get put in python itself when? 2.3 :) at this point i think we hve to put a fix in i don't think it made it :) unless 2.3 is shipping on everything (and the fix is in 2.3) fixedpoint IIRC was to be the bases of it i.e. is 2.3 in sarge or will it be 2.3 doesn't contain the fix yeah if 2.3 doesnt fix it... we need to apply work around then (imho) as we cant wait for 2.4 it was sounding like it was going to but then I think 2.3 was too far along or something we've started putting fixedpoint in gnue siesel: I personally am OK with fixedpoint use in common cool Action: dneighbo drives off to work ;) dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: "Bye Bye" i put a copy of it in gnue.external IIRC and made changes to make it work w/ python 2.1 as it didn't like it there for some reason jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: great. so we just need to think how to integrate it best. siesel: how many more changes do you have to gnue-common? because I have a lot of uncommitted changes to gnue-common that I was waiting until a point release to post Action: jcater is trying to plan ahead to how much merging I need to do i thought there was going to be a point release y-day Action: jamest runs off to see commit logs Action: jcater runs off in search of donuts Action: Vee2d2 runs off in search of sanity Action: Vee2d2 gets lost I have some changes too GTypecast, GParser and GBaseApp ok are you pretty much finished with datasource/drivers/ ? but that has to wait for a definition of some global encoding defintions and is used for unicode enabled labels etc. datasource stuff is almost finished, I just want to do some stuff in drivers/appserver to make reinhard a bit happier. appserver doesn't like his surname in python 2.1 it did :) reinhard: the simple solution is have you change your surname lol how about "Smith" ? Reinhard Smith seems reasonable to me Action: jcater hides from flying trout :) jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. wendall911 (~wendallc@198.31.172.218) joined #gnuenterprise. R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon2279.tstt.net.tt) joined #gnuenterprise. dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.94.80.73) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: do you have some minutes? appserver is now a bit more unicode aware and it would be great if you could do a quick surname check ;) bbl, take a walk w. children In wx, is it possible to get a list of currently visible windows? I think there's a FindTopWindow() or something but I don't know beyond that that is useless to me dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.94.80.73) left irc: "Client exiting" because it only finds the 'top' window. jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client exiting" couldn't you keep your own list? yea I'm just annoyed that I have to sucks to be you ;Z) to top it all off its just a debugging mechanism so you can exit gracefully in the event of a crash your code isn't BugFree(tm)? ;) hell no And my code has some annoying traps in it like if it gets a traceback in a modal dialog or in a window thats Disabled, it becomes unresponsive thierry_ (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) joined #gnuenterprise. thierry (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) left irc: Success jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@mail.actron.com) joined #gnuenterprise. lupo__ (lupo@pD9E68CC5.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. vegan donuts? It's been there for almost a month and you just noticed it? i just went through the recipe and wonder how to do it A little bit of cornstarch instead of the egg. *shudder* Are you Metric or Imprerial? metric why? #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jcater' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. is this a catch question ? lupo__: About 5ml of cornstarch generally gives the same rising effect as an eff. err. egg. Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by jcater!~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net: GNU Enterprise. Home of the Goats. 0.5.1 is most current version http://www.gnuenterprise.org. Donuts appreciated (Vegan Donuts *especially* appreciated for jbailey) i thought cornstarch is solid, whereas egg is liquid? Yes, but the cornstarch reacts to the water and stuff that you're putting in there anyway. You could always add a bit more water if you're worried about it. mkay what would be 5mL in imperial units? and why do they have to be vegan? allergic? lupo__: Teaspoon. =) lupo__: Because I only eat vegan food. Action: chillywilly just had veil :-o Action: lupo__ is away: learning animal physiology (this is no darn joke) heh Action: dsmith plays with mmap'ing /dev/mem btami (~btami@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: Excess Flood ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: Client Quit R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon2279.tstt.net.tt) left irc: siesel: i will try appserver as soon as i have time but maybe i won't have time tomorrow ok, no problem. anyway you can test likewise :) you know my name ;-) I have everything set up to use utf-8, but I'll try to install from scratch and test on windows. if that won't raise errors it should be ok. btw. are the deb ok, and released? siesel: it's ok on windows with cp1250 reinhard: yes, its Smith ;) like õÕûÛ :) cool. btami: do you think its difficult to write out unicode characters with the win32 uidriver don't know never tried unicode before so is the point release canceled then? i'm seeing lots of commits inside datasources which i assume need more testing? Action: siesel hides away siesel: just a little side note IMHO things like this: try: return value.encode ('utf-8') except: # it was not unicode return str (value) is not optimal coding style that catches ALL errros becuase you never know if the exception occured because it was not unicode or for some other reason that kind of programming is for example what causes windows to write on some occurences "the disk "lpt1:" is full. please delete some data" :) (no kidding, i got that error message once) reinhard: in the datasource code a warning is printed when the wrong type is passed and an exception should raised once when the stuff is settled well it was just a little note from first view yeah I agree, it's bad practice Action: jcater is guilty of doing it to as jamest will attest but i think we have to generally be cautious with try/except (he's griped at me before) but that has bitten me in the arse before same for me as it also catches syntax errors that's why i'm a bit sensible about it like try: return valu.encode('...') or val,encode('...') that's a habit I'm personally trying to break imho the best style is to do something like IMHO try: catch: is faster than if type(value)==XXX, but thats a bad excuse well try: if value is foobar: ... else ... if we would care about speed we wouldn't use python ;) try: return value.encode(...) except AttributeError: return str(value) is what I'm moving to it still helps w/the speed and it doesn't catch everything and stops blanket error trapping ok, using AttributeError then. siesel: anyway i highly appreciate your change because this encoding stuff is all spanish villages to me reinhard: Isn't optimised python bytecode supposed to be reaonsably quick? jbailey: we never had any problems with performance well to be honest we didn't test performance :-) we do pay attention though that's what the --profile option of GBaseApp is for :) Action: jcater loves gnue-common well gnue-appserver in python is still a lot faster than geas in C was lol most definitely btw. how do I catch both Attribute and UnicodeError? but that's because appserver doesn't need 35 SQL statements to fill out a simple non-master/detail form siesel: use a list except (AttributError, UnicodeError): ok, thanks. oops I had a NameError [] ? err, tuple sorry ok list probably works too Action: jcater isn't in python programming mode at the moment so excuse my errors :) jbailey: any news from debian land? None. We were down a pile of people yesterday, so I didn't work on it. Likely tomorrow morning, sorry. Action: reinhard needs to go to bed before midnight today for a change jbailey: no problem i saw gnue-* (except common) was thrown out of testing for now siesel: i was wrong, the appserver works with cp1250 with webfrontend, but Ah, I hadn't noticed that. doesn't with forms wx, win32 thats bad. jbailey: you didn't upload anything except common, correct? Correct. ok seems like I have to add some more fixes to the appserver dbdriver Hmm Maybe I can upload the lot of them tonight urgency=high Action: reinhard seriously plays with the thought of applying as a debian maintainer someday dcl seems to depend on python, which seems odd. jamest: about the point release, there shouldn't be any great regressions, because all changes depend on the variable _unicodeMode equal to true, which isn't the default only appserver dbdriver has some bigger encoding / decoding changes Hey - when is the next round of releases expected? as soon as you have uploaded the debs and the have worked for say 1 week IMHO but jcater and jamest have to agrree er agree because the have to do most of the work for the release and it will be a symbolic act to for the first time (?) release appserver together with the other tools :) ToyMan (~stuq@user-0cevdks.cable.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. whoa appserver is joining us for a release? whoa we're doing a release? reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) you mean he's talking near future!?!?!? has it been 6 months already? reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "I haven't lost my mind. I know exactly where I left it." Nick change: md-bk-2200CET -> mdupont btami (~btami@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) left irc: "night all" mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) left irc: Remote closed the connection Nick change: mdupont -> mdupont-ZZZ dsmith (~dsmith@mail.actron.com) left irc: "Client exiting" jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise ("Client exiting"). http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/barbieOS.htm heheh, saw that yesterday ;) someone posted it to our LUG list it's kinda funny but cool ;) siesel (~jan@xdsl-213-196-211-205.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client exiting" jamest (~jamest@adsl-208-191-38-32.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. someone had a nice python reference online i seem to recall chillywilly recommended it which means it has to be, um, good? anyone recall the name? dive into python thanks jamest no problem R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon567.tstt.net.tt) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client exiting" R45 (~rastabeen@cuscon567.tstt.net.tt) left irc: ToyMan (~stuq@user-0cevdks.cable.mindspring.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. mdupont-ZZZ you might look at ebXML if you are interested in business2business applications. mdupont-ZZZ not sure what you mean by SAP-interface ... might be that you want to have gnue talking to a SAP system mdupont-ZZZ if that is the case, then you migh tbe interested in ebXML. mdupont-ZZZ SAP has different interfaces, for example it provideds SAP idoc documents which gnue could either a) read and b) write and so you could talk ot a SAP system. jamest (~jamest@adsl-208-191-38-32.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: "Client exiting" dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.179) joined #gnuenterprise. hi dcmwai hello SachaS SachaS: So free today? i wish. off in a couple of minutes ... dcmwai your programming on arias/gnue in your spare time? SachaS: You can say that.. :) SachaS: Actually, I'm doing it in my working hours.. Cause my Orgnazation is trying to use it. thats cool then! i think a small business scenario would help to get gnue-sb along outline the business sceanrio ... which will provide the requirements for the gnue-sb ... so with a clear scenario in mind (on paper) developers would know what to do ??? I hope :) a possible business scenario for me could be "a one person company doing contracting work" for example. different people different business scenarios ... That is actually the problem.. different people have different business scenarios... have to check people might have thought about how to ... deal with different busines sscenarios But there are always a standard way.. to know the problem is the best start ey ;) what is the standard way dcmwai? and Things running always the same, They may just want different figure or different value Action: Vee2d2 is thinking he'll have time to crack on gnue-sb again in the not so distant future a group of us should get locked in a cave to work on gnue-sb ;) SachaS: One simple idea.. Show what I want (in the businessman Mind) SachaS: We shouldn't... and we should open to all idea... I keep running into problems it seems, though. The firing order of the triggers.. which isnt such a big deal now.. but IIRC the last problem was with PRE-COMMIT trigger and not being able to parse through the records to setup the values locked in a cave will cause gnue-sb un workable later. jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Client exiting" not sure if that's been fixed since, hoping.. Vee2d2: you are using gnue-sb in a productive enviroment? I would be if there were something to use.. ;) haha I have a couple/few situations right now I could deploy it in.. oh? Taking Nola schema is a good idea.. But it need some modification. Before the things really work the way we want, Simple to admin and simple to use.... ok no caves :) see you later Nick change: SachaS -> SachaAway I have my own business which was the primary motivator.. and there are 2 other businesses I have close ties with.. the family farm(s) is potentially another.. really it jumps into the dozens pretty quickly when you look at potentials.. ^^ my primary motivator I should say not that it was the inspiration for gnue-sb. ;) Action: Vee2d2 looks at his newly compiled kernel and twitches.. guess I should fire it up.. Vee2d2: We do, Always do something that will benefit us, and at the sametime share it with other isn't that the idea ;) hi yes hello chillywilly hiya Jet get things started.. :) checking js9s submit on Aria smarty brunch.. bah.. fricken aol! Nick change: mdupont-ZZZ -> mdupont SachaAway: good point ebXML is a good idea jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client exiting" Action: derek rubs eyes is that mdean? Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection hello derek.. How is day ? :) not bad waiting for aland to show up :) watching cubs game and dr. phil derek: did you see that MNF game? nope BAH it was pretty exciting so Nice .. What a day.. :) moin chillywilly hi dcmwai herrow all dtm: hi there! mdupont: what's up well, mit has not written back to me about the SAP testing i think sashas is right about ebXML and edi maybe that would really be the best investment... more people speak that than anything else could take some time from MIT mdupont: what about OSDL? hows kansas going dtm? your garage sale went well? they have 10x more money than sense, so maybe they'll drop something on it ;) that is such a good idea! Action: mdupont thinks about writing a mail to the OSDL! i dont mean anything derogatory about your idea; i'm just saying that their members can drop a couple ten grand on a lab and not even feel it. mdupont: Hello they have a telecom lab they've never operated dtm: listen, it is not like I want to spend the money i just want to have the service if anyone else wants to do it, i am happy :) yeah put it on their bill hey they might have some extra $10,000 worth of licenses laying around that they're not using these are members such as Compaq and HP and friends I was thinking about trying to buy licenses off of dotbomb companies i bet enron had a SAP license that is not being used HEH brilliant you like that, eh? yeah, except the part about needing money in order to do it ;) well, look at what it costs to learn sap then look at the employment chances and the certification costs if you add it all together then people are willing to pay for learning this system then if you offer them a investment where they can buy part of the license and split that via many people it just might make sense alandd (~alandd@h-68-166-243-155.PHNDAZ91.dynamic.covad.net) joined #gnuenterprise. mdupont: but it's still proprietary yes of course, so is money yeah so mdupont needs a contract that says "this software license will only be used for the liberation of data from proprietary systems" ;-) so then people might buy it. :) i dont want to sell the license, because in that case, it would be the same as the original GNU i want to sell shares in the company :) oh Lord you'd be like Tony Stanco! Who? use google ;) or ask nb or ajmitch ;) ok well I'd say that if you ever had any chance, you'd have already made a complete legal corporate structure and set of contracts before bringing it up :) yeah, or dont, so as to avoid hostilities ;) OT:Anybody want to test my email for me? I have a new email server setup and I need email from the "outside" alandd( )consultpros ! com mdupont: let's just say he's someone you dont ever want to be associated or compared with :) alandd: done ok well, I dont want to bother you guys with this i will drop it for now dtm: Thanks. hi alandd anyway, nb and I are not speaking didnt see you sneak in mdupont: im lost in your conversatoin but interested derek: I am in stealth mode until the kids go to bed ;^) hi derek gee I wonder why mdupont ;) mdupont: yeah you have a lot of groundwork to lay before even suggesting such a thing, because the one step beyond your suggestion is the corporate and contractural infrastructure underlying even a proof of concept who is nb? chillywilly: maybe because rhys is so unfair? norbert bollow gotcha mine are in bed dtm: yes, your right. I need to look into the contracts first. It is just an idea mdupont: yeah, that's cool, we like ideas we do? ;) Action: derek will be first to do it right :) you mean you like idead if they don't originate from chillywilly muahhahaha oh....well... i had the idea that we did ideas i like chillywilly's ideas Action: derek just has learned to not talk about ideas just causes frustration thats why i blog now instead i get along better with myself :) dtm: got it! My server works! SpamAssasin enabled! that makes no sense derek: go ahead, tell me but hen again it is derek so... ;P then* alandd: yay MAIL RECEIVED FROM YAHOO.COM. MARKED AS SPAM FOR DELETION. I got an idea GNUe should switch to J2EE ;P hehehehe YAHOO.COM DOES NOT COMPUTE chillywilly: yay chillywilly: you should port gnue to my phone. http://www.bash.org/?142934 oh wait that's j2me. same thing. nickr: lol*#@) nickr: geez morons gawd, emacs does not like 75mb files nickr: you nearly made me pee myself reading that link awesome derek: THen my work here is done :) derek: hehehe mdupont: actually it does, you just have to edit your dot emacs file to tell it you are foolish ;) i.e. i learned that on #emacs nickr: well done why do i lose line numbers opening a file with over 10,000 lines why the hell are you using an editor to do something with a file with 10,000 lines http://www.bash.org/?4281 lol hehe I believe I've made reference to that one before http://www.bash.org/?111338 LOL!!! "You have your mother's eyes. It seems only yesterday she was in here herself, buying her first wang. Ten and a quarter inches long, swishy, made of willow. Nice wang for charm work." Action: alandd is away: Kid check. "Oh, move over," Hermione snarled. She grabbed Harry's wang, tapped the lock, and whispered, 'Alohomora!" heh, gotta make sure you didn't lose one eh alandd ? ;) chillywilly: HAHEHEHEhe@#*% Harry took the wang. He felt a sudden warmth in his fingers. He raised the wang above his head, brought it swishing down through the dusty air and a stream of red and gold sparks shot from the end like a firework, throwing dancing spots of light on to the walls lollerskates rofl The troll couldn't feel Harry hanging there, but even a troll will notice if you stick a long bit of wood up its nose, and Harry's wang had still been in his hand when he'd jumped - it had gone straight up one of the troll's nostrils. roflmao LOL!! I see nothing funny. dtm: sorry, i think it is way too funny :) mdupont: that was a good one man ;) Action: chillywilly 's sides hurt the truth about magic wands is that they *are* phallic, supposed to represent the male energy Action: mdupont cannot stop laughing indeed no wonder i never liked harry potter Action: alandd is back (gone 00:06:55) Action: alandd has counted all kids. All here :^) None in bed yet :^( hehe i just had to chase one back to bed how old are they derek? They bounce! wendall911 (~wendallc@198.31.172.218) left #gnuenterprise. um... 2 (almost 3) - the one that was up 5 - out cold and 8 (almost 9) - not home yet... still out to pizza with some friends after football (not futbol) practice :) :) sounds like a nice family. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. it is true :! Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Client Quit Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.otn-c1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. http://www.hp-op.by.ru/37.html "Then, with a sigh, he raised his wand and prodded the silvery substance with its tip." Action: mdupont feels sick heh http://dda.mail333.com/1.html "'Get - off - me!' Harry gasped. For a few seconds they struggled, Harry pulling at his uncles sausage-like fingers with his left hand, his right maintaining a firm grip on his raised wand;" I'm not sure if they are sexually charged images, or just british heheh finally killed the 75mb buffer without killing emacs Action: alandd is away: putting kids to bed, Finally! what time is it out there? 11:55am you must be in aus/nz? 8:56pm US,AZ Action: alandd is back (gone 00:02:54) q Action: alandd is away: I'm busy Action: alandd is back (gone 00:00:03) Tue Oct 7 20:59:57 MST 2003 Tue Oct 7 23:01:48 CDT 2003 11:02pm up 28 days, 5:18, 5 users, load average: 0.16, 0.12, 0.09 Wed Oct 8 05:48:42 CEST 2003 Linux r1.txwifi.com 2.4.18-24.8.0 #1 Fri Jan 31 06:51:30 EST 2003 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux Action: Vee2d2 fives dtm.. central time zone, represent! ;) er.. uh.... CENTRAL SIDAZ 4 LYFE INNA HIZZY?!??! YES! man i'm so mixed up. i'm used to being on the eastern west side. Vee2d2: HAUGH HAUGH HAUGH HAUGH!!! ¤T 10¤ë 8 12:02:21 MYT 2003 Action: dtm chomps down on the Alpo dcmwai: man what kind of mutant time is that? :) i think i like it. do we have any Icelandic gnooeys to reprazent!? dtm: If I'm not mistaken.... There is some chinese wording in between.... just raise your hand that why... dcmwai: are you of the Chinese persuasion? Vee2d2: werd em up to tha Texanz derek: Gotta go away for a bit. We can discuss our plans when I get back. I'm thinking about 9:40, hopefully sooner. dtm: I'm Chinese ... :) Linux shoestring 2.4.22-dtm1 #2 Wed Sep 10 00:24:24 CDT 2003 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux maylasian pursuasion has a ring to it.. Action: alandd is away: Big kid retrieval... Vee2d2: hehehe Nick change: alandd -> alandd_away gahnooeeey! me likes it! ok i might not be back until a little later than that depending on when wife comes home :P) hehe... bye masta ;P Nick change: SachaAway -> SachaS hey SachaS, guten morgen hi mdupont i am a little into ebxml the idea of ebxml is to provide a framework for business2business "i think sashas is right about ebXML and edi" read freamework hmm, like EDI yeah i saw your comment above so it does not really help you specifically ebXML should allow small to meduium enterprises to be part of that b2b gramework Action: alandd_away is back (gone 00:25:28) Nick change: alandd_away -> alandd sme's might use quicken, myop, money, gnue ;) and ebXML wants them to be part of b2b too why should the y be part of it? but what does quicken suppotr? probably because big companies want them to hook up into their system (sap, peoplesoft etc) quicken might support ebXMl, one day hmm if users WANT quicken to support ebXML the idea of ebXML: provide collaborative business processes i think that if it is like EDI, then it is a very loose schema eg processes which occur between organisations (parties) also provide the business documents (eg invoice, offer, bill etc) ok, i think this will be interesting to look into those information (collaboration business processes, business docuemnts) are available for all i think thats an advantage over EDI (never workded with EDI) do the docs provide enough detail to be used? mdupont there are a couple of ebXML books out yet and you can find info on www.ebxml.org i have looked into this in the past www.freebxml.org has open source implementations (apache and academic licences) so quicken needs a plugin which understands a) a Collaboration Protocol Agreement (CPA), b) be able to parse the business documents referenced in the CPA http://www.freebxml.org/mshdonate.htm Hermes is a Message Service Handler (MSH) implementation that is in compliance with the OASIS ebXML Message Service (ebMS V2) Standard. ok this sounds like good stuff and the hard part c) how to connect that to itself (eg incoming invoice should trigger a new invoice in quicken for example) well, gnue servers should be able to exchange with themselves first via this protocol,no? mdupont I saw the ebMail demo last week (based on Hermes und uses SMTP as transport protocol) mdupont gnue <-> gnue and later other-app <-> gnue is what i am interested in ok, it think this will be good i wonder how gnue currently exchanges data? insted of haivng gnue to any (n) you should haveeg gnue to ebXML for example mdupont I guess one first step is to have some sort of procedures in appserver procedures? you mean business procedures? then allow appserver to receive messages and publish messages like buisness logic does not the app server do that now? yeah like business logic. calling set_new_name method of person object what if the appserver spoke this nativly? like triggers in forms --- Wed Oct 8 2003