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<Vee2d2> It's a nice quiet evening tonight
<dcmwai> Yes... 2 Hours the only 1 Single line of word :)
<Vee2d2> I was just speaking in general, there's a lot of idling going on everywhere it seems.. 
Action: Vee2d2 gets back to work
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<btami> good morning
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<siesel> morning
<chillywilly> night ;)
<siesel> :)
<reinhard> morning
<LuftHans> tag
<btami> morning is the winner :)
<chillywilly> it's "early" morning here
<chillywilly> Thu Oct  9 02:48:59 CDT 2003
<LuftHans> bah
<chillywilly> ;P
Action: LuftHans calls for a recount :)
<chillywilly> heheh
<LuftHans> "I will sue until I get a recount that goes my way" <- Gore
<LuftHans> "I will sue until we get a recall" <- some .ca.us millionaire
<chillywilly> Arnold is now tehe governor
<LuftHans> "I don't have Total Recall" <- the Governator when asked about groping women :)
<chillywilly> the
<chillywilly> haha
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<LuftHans> http://www.lordoftherings.net/trilogy/theaters.html
<chillywilly> hmmm, October 9th the new one comes out?
<chillywilly> what is this special edition screening thing?
<chillywilly> cool, return of the king comes out on my mom's b-day
<chillywilly> oh cool a new trailer
<LuftHans> tix for the triple-movie bonanza go on sale today/tomorrow
<LuftHans> might only be in the .us, though :(
<chillywilly> cool
<LuftHans> they'll be showing the extended versions of the first two and the new one back to back to back
<LuftHans> the first two will also be showing extended versions the two weekends prior to the new one coming out
<LuftHans> I think that's the option I'll take because sitting on my butt for 10 hours w/o a keyboard would drive me insane :)
<reinhard> LuftHans: you could always take your notebook into the cinema ;-)
<chillywilly> trailer looks cool
<LuftHans> reinhard: got any connections to Steve Mann or the MIT media lab? That's almost two months to get a wearable going :)
<chillywilly> I would love to be sitting there for 10 hours watching LOTR...my wrist is telling me that I need to lay off the computer ;)
Action: chillywilly downloads the trailer to watch again
<chillywilly> hmmm, closest to me ie New Berlin, WI
<chillywilly> s/ie/is/
<chillywilly> Madison is about ~1-1.5 hours west
<chillywilly> (too far compared to New Berlin)
<chillywilly> more like 1hr 45 mins to Madison
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<Arturas> Hello
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<reinhard> hello jbailey
<jbailey> Hyea - I'm only here for a minute or two, just checking in on some glibc stuff I had running last night.
<jbailey> I'll be back in 90-120 minutes or so.
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<reinhard> you don't have a bad conscience when you see me, do you?
<reinhard> ;-)
<jbailey> WEll, I know I've been busy the last couple of days.  But it's just that work life and home life has a couple major deadlines looming.
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<reinhard> j/k
<jbailey> Gone.
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<dimas> Slashdot|Universe Shaped Like A Soccer Ball?
<dimas>  A week ago it was shaped like a donut (or is that a Torus).
<dimas> Mmm, universal donut.
<dimas> :)
<dimas> is there someone's brother in the universe?
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<jamest> hello gnue'rs
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Nick change: reinhard_ -> reinhard
Nick change: SachaAway -> SachaS
<SachaS> today i went for lunch with a guy who is into semantics
<SachaS> apparently semantics is one of the big problems
<SachaS> delivery date can mean the date when you deliver
<SachaS> or the date when you deliver AND when you dont deliver I get 10 % discount
<SachaS> so they first agree on terms
<SachaS> of course domain specific
<SachaS> eg what is a computer
<SachaS> what is a keyboard
<SachaS> what is this and that
<SachaS> once they (internally (data architects and business analyysts) and with the customer)
<SachaS> agree on the terms
<SachaS> they look at the business processes
<SachaS> make sure the business process the business analysts have in place match with the business processes the customer has in place
<reinhard> delivery date can even be the date he receives the goods
<reinhard> not the date they leave your factory
<SachaS> hi reinhard. yeah even more  view on a common data filed "delivery date"
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Action: SachaS has gnue package devlopment in his head
<SachaS> so the terms have to be right
<SachaS> so that when people talk about delivery date they all mean the same
<SachaS> so Paolo sees a 60/20/20 rule
<SachaS> 60 % of each company is the same
<SachaS> of course each company thinks they are special but 60 % is the saem as any other company
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<SachaS> 20% is industry specific (not sure if that is manufacturer vs retailer or pharma industry versus software industry)
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<SachaS> the last 20% is individuallity (the thing that makes one company better than the other?
<SachaS> the last 20% is individuallity (the thing that makes one company better than the other)
<SachaS> so my question was:
<SachaS> if I want to create a customer database (ala gnue customer package) how  to get started
<SachaS> unfortunately I did not get _the_ answer
<SachaS> guess I go again for lunch with him :)
<SachaS> another think I was asking and getting a little hint was:
<SachaS> s/think/thing
<SachaS> how to build the customer database when I know of the 60/20/20 rule?
<SachaS> problem of a pharma business and a manufacturer have a different view of a customer
<SachaS> after the 60/20/20 rule the have 60% in common so thats a good start
<SachaS> Paolo is using something along the line of: using the knowledge of the unknown
<SachaS> this sounds realy strange doesnt it?
<SachaS> well instead of having a null values in a  field in a database you have a "unknown", "currently not set", "not needed" value in a field
<SachaS> he is like 45+ and maybe keen to give some advice
<SachaS> does this make sense? 
<SachaS> anyone here to comment?
Action: SachaS thinks everyone thinks "ok ok where is the gnue customer package?"
<SachaS> oh well bed time
<SachaS> see yas
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<dsmith> Ahh!
<nickr> no
<dsmith> indeed
<dsmith> (wrong channel, actually)
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<jamest> hey siesel, we still ok for a point release this weekend?
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<siesel> yes.
<siesel> Step 2 and 3, can be implemented later IMHO
<siesel> btw. do we need to support python2.1?
<siesel> as that would mean, that I have to replace x.decode(enc) with unicode(x,enc) at several places
<siesel> (HINT) and that would be another datasource patch, jcater has to add to his tree (HINT) :)
<jcater> I think we do need to support python2.1
<jcater> that was a major release of python and is still quite common
<jcater> jamest: what do you think?
<jbailey> What's wrong with telling people to suck it up and upgrade?
<jbailey> Anyone compiling from source probably won't mind, anyone with a distro will have gotten the upgrade anyway.
<siesel> I'm not shure which python version is in woody. Reinhard, normaly uses python2.1 so, 2.2 probably is not in woody
<reinhard> 2.1 is in woody
<jamest> right now we require 2.0 for common
<jamest> i _think_ designer requires 2.1(?)
<jamest> i was kinda hoping our next jump would be to 3.0
<jamest> er
<jamest> 2.3
<jamest> but I can't imagine any distro being more out of date than woody
<siesel> I _thought_ designer requires 2.1 + wxwindows 2.4 + a donut a day 
<jamest> sigh python 2.2 is in woody
<jamest> python 2.2 was released December 21, 2001
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<jcater> python 2.2 is in woody??
<jamest> yes
<jamest> apt-cache search python2.2
Action: jcater doesn't think so
<jamest> http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=python2.2&searchon=names&subword=1&version=stable&release=all
<siesel> It is: http://packages.debian.org/python2.2
<reinhard> oh ok
Action: jamest wants to require 2.3
<jamest> but that would be no end of pain for me on my woody boxes
<jcater> wow
<jcater> I didn't realize that
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<jamest> i tend to keep those kind of longings to myself
<jamest> but it is true, i'd like to see python 2.3 as the next jump
<jcater> no, I realized that
<jamest> =)
<jamest> 2.0 has been out since Oct 2000
<jamest> i guess I'm kinda ok w/ the jump to 2.2
<jamest> but i'd perfer 2.3 in case I forgot to mention it
<jamest> iirc we've got some kludges that would be nicely handled in 2.3
<jamest> and nothing older than 2.3
<siesel> I replaced decode with unicode at some places, and it looks good too...
<siesel> So IMHO we could stay with the python >2.0 requirement
<jcater> jamest: in your opinion
<jcater> what version should we require?
<jamest> um
<jamest> maybe 2.3
Action: jcater is unsure of your position
<jamest> actually 2.3 would be a major pain on woody
<jamest> that I have 0 desire to see
<jamest> is 2.1 still common in any distro?
<jcater> iirc, 2.1 is required for zope
<jcater> so yes
<jcater> but that doesn't mean they don't also have 2.3 :)
<jcater> when was 2.3 released?
<siesel> 1 month ago?
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> yeah, just a couple of months ago
<jamest> July 29, 2003
<reinhard> well so if we can download previews of 2.4 from cvs
<reinhard> i suggest we require that
<reinhard> ;-)
<jcater> I say we require python 3.0
<reinhard> seriously
<jcater> "bug? what, that's no bug? are you using 3.0? well, that's your problem, we don't support 2.3"
<reinhard> i have always tried to not require anything that isn't in current debian stable
<jamest> as by the time 3.0 is out 0.5.3 should be hitting the streets
<jcater> reinhard: that is true
<jcater> I wouldn't want us to make 0.5.x change requirements
<jamest> that's why I'd be ok with 2.2
<siesel> jcater: zope 2.6 needs python 2.2
<jamest> as nothing is more out of date than debian
<jamest> so we should be safe
<jcater> siesel: no
<jcater> I run zope 2.6 in production
<jcater> and it runs on 2.1
<jcater> (which is what they said they only officially support at this time)
<siesel> I just looked at the debian package
<jcater> # dpkg --list|grep zope
<jcater> ii  plone          1.0rc2.2003011 A zope/cmf-based content management system
<jcater> ii  zope           2.6.1-10       An Open Source Web Application Server
<jcater> # apt-cache show zope
<jcater> Depends: python2.1 (>= 2.1.3-1),
<jcater> and in their release README
<jcater> Important
<jcater>   This release requires Python 2.1.
<jcater> are those the sid debs?
<jcater> I'm with reinhard, though
<jcater> I like to use debian stable as a guage
<siesel> I looked for zope 2.6.2-2. (debian unstable)
<jcater> and I frankly don't see any advantage of upping the requirement from 2.1 to 2.2
<jcater> as 2.3 gives us the most benefits of changing the requirements
<siesel> ok, that means using unicode(x,encoding). right?
<jcater> I guess
<jamest> siesel: can you just sed them?
<jamest> if so then jcater can use the same script on his end
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<siesel> do you understand the zen of sed?
<jcater> lord, yes
<jcater> I couldn't go a day w/out sed
<jcater> though I haven't backported the current changes anyway
<jcater> so it doesn't matter, I suppose
<siesel> ok.
<siesel> IMHO I just need to  replace ".*@1.decode(.*" with ".*unicode(@1,.*"  do you know how to that with sed?
<jamest> lemme look at my scripts
Action: siesel found out the simple case: sed -i 's/f.decode(/unicode(f,/' */*/*.py
<jamest> that doesn't do var name substitution though does it?
<siesel> no, but I found out that I just have a case with "value" and one with "f", so running the script two times was enough.
<siesel> But if you know how to do var name substituion, I would be interested.
<jamest> looks
<jamest> between user attacks
<reinhard> night all
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<jamest> try this
<jamest> sed -e 's/\(.*\).decode(/unicode(\1,/'
<jamest> (on a sample file :)
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<jcater> fwiw, you probably want to do s/\([a-zA-Z0-9_]+\).decode( ....
<jamest> so it breaks on spaces?
<jamest> that's my 1 fear are lines like
<jamest> doSomething(f.decode(.....
<jcater> yeah
<jamest> it'll goat rape those in my sample
<jcater> that's what I was trying to catch
<siesel> hmm, I did an : sed -i -e 's/\([a-zA-Z0-9_]+\).decode(/unicode(\1,/' file"  but it doesn't work
<jcater> I blame derek
<siesel> :)
<jamest> i agree w/ jcater
<siesel> btw. I want to let the gtk2 driver use the uncode mode implemented in the datasources.
<jamest> remove the -i
<siesel> do you think a new command line parameter ( --unicode) or gConfig entry would be needed?
<jamest> unless you mean to edit the file in place
<jamest> otherwise you won't see anything on the screen
<siesel> It still doesn't work 
<siesel> but now I get the following:
<siesel> jan@Zhuang:/tmp$ sed -e 's/([a-zA-Z0-9_]+).decode/unicode(\1,/' dr > dr3
<siesel> sed: -e expression #1, char 37: Invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS
<jamest>  sed -e 's/\([a-zA-Z0-9_]*\).decode(/unicode(\1,/' file
<jamest> works for me
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I just tried that
<jcater> dunno why + doesn't work
<siesel> * work for me, but + doesn't. strange
<jamest> damn derek anyway
<jamest> screwing up the + support
<jamest> lol
<jamest> MS is doing another set of security initiatives
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<alandd> LuftHans, are you there?
<alandd> LuftHans: When you see this, check your email.  Did you confirm for lunch tomorrow?
<alandd> Everyone: sorry for using the channel as a personal message service.
Action: alandd wishes LuftHans didn't have so much email to sift through
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<siesel> night
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--- Fri Oct 10 2003