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<no-va> :|
<dtm> :\
<wendall911> :-$
<no-va> happy coding
<chillywilly> 8-}
<dtm> por que no va
<dtm> ?
<Vee2d2> $)
<dtm> hola mi amigos
<dtm> que pasa
<dtm> ?!
<Vee2d2> que pasa el pollo loco
<dtm> Vee2d2's money on his mind
<ajmitch> oh dear
<no-va> eh eh but i don't understand spanish..
<wendall911> no mucho, y tu
<no-va> it's just my nick
<dtm> i got yer pollo right here
<dtm> no-va: ok.  why?  :)
<dtm> ajmitch: what are you up to?
<ajmitch> shaking my head at the state of this channel
<dtm> WHAT HAPPEN
Action: Vee2d2 spins back to work
<dtm> wendall911: okay and if yo'ure interested in explaining your nick, i'll have it
Action: chillywilly sides with ajmitch 
<wendall911> well, i've been a project lead for many years, ppl used to IM me for every problem they had...like calling 911, so it just ended up at the end of my name
<chillywilly> freaks
<dtm> wendall911: huh.
Action: dtm maces chillywilly "hello"
<dtm> chillywilly: whaddap dawg
<dtm>  /msg wendall911 HELP ME I HAVE NO LEGS.
<wendall911>  /msg wendall911 help me, I just changed a function and the software doesn't run after a compile, what do i do type of thing
<dtm> :-/
<dtm> but.... at least they still had their legs.   :-/
<dtm> it's kinda hard to manage a project where you gotta do their job for em
<dtm> you were the PMM -- project micromanager
<wendall911> dtm: I wrote all the code for the product and they were just maintenance programmers, so yeah, a PMM is right
<dtm> :/
<no-va> hoa hoa hao
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Action: dtm lines em all up for chillywilly to spank em
<dtm> wendall911: there ya go
<dtm> gnue community defends your honor
<dtm> i think.
<wendall911> heh
Action: chillywilly spanks them with a fat wet trout
<dtm> yeah there ya go.
<dtm> still fresh, even
<dtm> poppin' fresh gnue trout!!  *hee hee*
<wendall911> mmm, sounds good
<wendall911> green salad and maybe some winter squash on the side
<wendall911> who's cooking?
<LuftHans> http://www.xiph.org/mgm/
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<ajmitch> hi steveb
<wendall911> LuftHans: funny
<LuftHans> :)
<wendall911> I find this particularly funny
<wendall911> MGM will not get your whites whiter or your colors brighter. It will, however, sit there and look spiffy while sucking down a major honking wad of RAM.
Action: wendall911 has written similar apps
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<dtm> RAMwad.
Nick change: thierry_ -> thierry
<thierry> morning
<dtm> thierry: hi
<thierry> hi dtm
<dtm> hihi
<dtm> what is up, o my brother
<dtm> i'm trying to finish up so i can  sleep!
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<reinhard> grüezi spaetz!
<spaetz> Hallo :-)
<spaetz> Servus
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<SachaS> servus 
<SachaS> haha
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<btami> hello
<btami> reinhard: you here?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> hi btami
<btami> 2 notes on pre1
<reinhard> yes?
<btami> 1. setupext dir is missing from common
<btami> 2. may i suggest to put sample html files to webfrontend somewhere
<reinhard> i agree with both points
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<reinhard> thanks will fix both
<btami> ok, bbl
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<ToyMan> morning all
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<reinhard> good morning captain
<reinhard> jamest: thanks for doing the prereleases
<jamest> np
<reinhard> did you get the mail about version numbers?
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<reinhard> good moring jcater
<jcater> morning
<jamest> not read my mail yet
<jamest> users lurk in there
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<jcater> you should set up procmail like I do
<jcater> I have
<jcater> SPAM
<jcater> Ignore Forever
<jcater> Ignore Today
<jcater> users go into the second one
<jcater> all gnue people go into the 3rd
<reinhard> lol
<jcater> and upper management go into the first
<jcater> =)
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<jamest> i'm ok with the version numbers staying below release level at prerelease time
<reinhard> ok
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<reinhard> btami: pre2 is on the website and should fix both issues you reported
<btami> ok, thanks
<btami> reinhard: you put appserver examples into share/doc
<btami> can you do it with other tools too?
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<btami> each tool has a sample dir in cvs you know...
<reinhard> my experience was that some tools contain samples that are obsoleted and don't work with the current version of the tool
<reinhard> and none of the tools installed the examples before so i didn't want to add them
<reinhard> IMHO installing an example that doesn't work is worse than installing no example at all
<btami> hmm, they are in released tarballs 
<reinhard> hmm
<btami> and they was before too
<reinhard> i'd leave it up to the maintainer of the packages
<btami> :)
<reinhard> technically it's no big issue
<reinhard> a line or two in setup-cvs.py
<reinhard> err
<reinhard> setup.py
<reinhard> it might be a problem in forms because the samples directory has subdirectories
<reinhard> and i think we need a line in setup.py for every subdirectory
<reinhard> but apart from that it's trivial
<btami> i know, just asked it koz don't know what to put into setup.exe
<reinhard> so jamest/jcater: what do you think about installing examples
<jcater> I would hate to leave out all our samples because one or two don't work
<btami> reinhard: i see pre2 for appserver only, but missing setupext
<btami> was common's fault
<reinhard> oops yes
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<reinhard> hello jbailey
<reinhard> *please*
Action: reinhard tries to use his friendliest vioce available
<reinhard> please could you download the prereleases from http://www.gnue.org/downloads/prereleases
<dcmwai> who is here ?
<jbailey> Want them packaged and uploaded?
<reinhard> and test if they run through debian packaging process ?
<jcater>  /msg reinhard offer him vegan donuts!
<reinhard> pre2 of common will appear in 10 minutes or so
<reinhard> so you have 10 minutes to think about it ;-)
<reinhard> jbailey: please don't upload, they have "evil" release numbers
<reinhard> just test if packaging runs through ok
<reinhard> or if we forgot to include some dirs or files
<reinhard> well i think i'll turn the version number back to 5.1.99
<reinhard> jbailey: sorry it's http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prere
<reinhard> leases.php
<reinhard> arrgh
<reinhard> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases.php
<jcater> we wouldn't want prereleases uploaded regardless imho
<reinhard> anyway i turn release back to 0 for our prereleases now
<reinhard> jcater: could be a good idea to upload them IMHO
<reinhard> so we could test installing with apt-get
<reinhard> please don't forget we have completely reworked setup system
<reinhard> ok common prereleases are there to download pre2
<reinhard> appserver, too
<reinhard> btami/jbailey: you can look at both of them packaging wise
<reinhard> and jbailey: IMHO please upload, so that those override files get done
<reinhard> will make forms/designer/navigator/reports in a few minutes
<reinhard> brb
<reinhard> back
<dcmwai> jcater, hi, I remember that you have said something about using gnue-report with PHP (or gnue-report server)...?
<dcmwai> any "Real life" example on how they work together?
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Action: dcmwai really hope that someone can get him some example about that...
<reinhard> forms pre2 is ready on prereleases
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<dcmwai> Gogogo :)
<reinhard> reports pre2 ready
<reinhard> navigator pre2 ready
<reinhard> jbailey: all packages are ready to download in pre2 version
<reinhard> please build debs, upload and let me know if you have any problems
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<reinhard> gnue-common pre2 was missing a file
<reinhard> uploaded gnue-common pre3
<LuftHans> danke
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<dtm> what's up guys
<mdupont> hey dtm
<mdupont> i feel a bit bad about venting the other night, hope that you done think too less of me now
<dtm> what?  venting about what?
<dtm> mdupont: no way man
<mdupont> about the dotgnu guys
<dtm> ohhh that was a while back.  no of course not.  i try to take everything as a semi-flexible opinion at most.  the only thing is that you should know that #gnuenterprise is permanently and publically logged.
<dtm> :
<dtm> :/
<dtm> which is a huge violation of privacy and I dont know what whoever did that is thinking
<dtm> it's googlable, even
<dtm> which makes it 1000 times worse because anything can be taken out of context
<dtm> yeah so i dont have a problem with someone explaining their viewpoint  :)
<mdupont> nothing i said, i would not say to thier face and in public
<mdupont> and I did say that to them
<jbailey> dtm: ARchiving things done in public space is not a violation of privacy.
<chillywilly> agreed
<chillywilly> this is not really a channel for discussing everything and anything...even though most people here are not topic nazis
<jbailey> I tend to assume that anything I say over an unencrypted link, much less on a public channel runs the risk of being spraypainted on the side of a building with my picture attached.
<dtm> yeah well it's still a bad idea because of lack of context
<dtm> that's the main privacy violation
<chillywilly> if you're afraid that what you might say will be an embarassment to you then perhaps you should reconsider what yuou are saying ;)
<jbailey> It what was is it lack of context?  It's whatever context we set.
<jbailey> The logs go basck far enough for someone to derive necessary context.
<mdupont> chillywilly: thats right
<mdupont> i was drunk and frustrated at the time
<dtm> jbailey: lack of context in the mind of the viewer.  expecting someone to always derive their own context by researching through huge logs is ridiculous.
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<dtm> jbailey: also due to mistakes, being upset, on the part of the writer etc
<chillywilly> mdupont: maybe you shouldn't irc when you're drunk
<dtm> privacy is a principle and unilaterally applying your own local behaviors to it like this simply doesn't work
<mdupont> yes, good point
<chillywilly> or get drunk to begin with ;)
<mdupont> chillywilly: you are very admirable
<dtm> haha
Action: dtm admires chillywilly 
<jbailey> dtm: I don't expect them to derive the necessary context, but I also don't expect people to randomly pull out statements and misquote me.
<chillywilly> erm, don't
<chillywilly> forgot a word
<dtm> jbailey: and that's my whole point.  there's no reason for you to not expect that.
<dtm> jbailey: they can and eventually will  :)
<jbailey> dtm: In any event, there's no reason to beleive that the logs are accurate, or that any of us are who we claim to be.
<dtm> jbailey: randomly or not
<jbailey> I like being drunk.
<reinhard> I'm like being drunk
<reinhard> erm
<dtm> jbailey: you can't place these standards you're mentioning, upon the general public.  nothing you're saying is necessarily relevant to them :)
<jbailey> Ford: "It's unpleasantly like being drunk"
<mdupont> hehe
<dtm> it's a principle, called "privacy".  it doesn't work that way.
<jbailey> Arthur: "What's so unpleasant about being drunk"
<jbailey> ford: "Ask a glass of water"
<chillywilly> dtm: so don't say private things here
<chillywilly> sheesh
<dtm> chillywilly: ok you dont undersatnd privacy, kthxbye
<jbailey> This is the Internet, there is nothing approximating privacy.
<jbailey> I used to collect all of my neighbours email, just to prove to people that I could.
<dtm> okay, never mind!
<reinhard> jbailey: lol
<chillywilly> dtm: you need a hobby
<dtm> the potential for rampant abuse reigns supreme
Action: dtm declares the winner
<dtm> man i keep forgetting to eat.
<dtm> oh yeah it's coz i'm working.
<chillywilly> dtm: but posting on al.nonsequitr doesn't open you to abuse either right?
<chillywilly> alt.
<reinhard> jbailey: any chance you can upload gnue packages today?
<chillywilly> all public forums open you to the same abuse? so what?
<reinhard> fwiw i test installed all tarballs on a debian woody machine and all of them seem to work
<dtm> chillywilly: no they dont
<jbailey> reinhard: A reasonably good chance.
<chillywilly> don't post anything you're going to regret
<jbailey> Appt in 5 mins, bbiab.
<jbailey>  /away
<reinhard> jbailey: cool
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<reinhard> btw did you all notice http://bjorn.haxx.se/debian/
<reinhard> this is the work of a genius IMHO
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<nickr> that is neat
<dtm> nickr: werd
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<reinhard> hi btami
<btami> hello
<reinhard> how are things going in windows world?
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<nickr> werd up
<btami> reinhard: setup.exe is ok, just bulding again with pre2(3)
<reinhard> great
<reinhard> this release process is really starting to be like organized :)
<btami> reinhard: just one question, can/want you produce pdf files from sxw in tarballs?
<reinhard> i can't
<reinhard> well of course i could install openoffice
<reinhard> but currently i don't have it installed and so i can't produce pdf
<btami> no, i have it installed, just
<reinhard> is generating a pdf from sxw scriptable?
<btami> i can, so nevermind...
<btami> don't know
<reinhard> everything that is in the doc/ directory goes into the tarball
<reinhard> so when jamest and/or jcater do the final tarballs for forms and common, they can save a pdf in that directory and it will go in the tarball
<jamest> i think that's scriptable in OO.org
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<dsmith> Cool. OOo 1.1 installing.
<dsmith> Gaaaa!  I cant read any of the menus! The fonts are too small.  Anyone know where to change that?
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<mouns> bonwi
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<reinhard> night all
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<chillywilly> dudes
<chillywilly> http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg
<chillywilly> that's funny
<ajmitch> that's just wrong
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<chillywilly> why?
<ajmitch> it just is!
<chillywilly> the postgres elephant roasting the mysql dolphin ;P
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<jamest> anyone know how to make the kernel sources on debian match how they were built w/o rebuilding them
<jamest> meaning
<jamest> Error:
<jamest> kernel includes at /usr/src/linux/include do not match current kernel.
<jamest> they are versioned as "2.4.22"
<jamest> instead of "2.4.22-1-k7".
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<wendall911> jamest: can't you just do a make modules modules_install
<jamest> i'm building a custom module
<wendall911> or is it your deps that are the prob
<wendall911> i see
<jamest> that does a check against the loaded kernel vs the configed kernel in /usr/src/linux
<wendall911> right
<jamest> i d/l the debian kernel and cp /boot/config-ker* to the linux/.config
<wendall911> i've done it before, but i can't remember how
<jamest> i guess I could hand edit the file
<wendall911> i think i just created a sym link
<wendall911> so it thought everything was coming from the new source
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<ajmitch> hey jeff
<jbailey> Heya Andrew.
<ajmitch> jbailey: you are mailutils hacker? :)
<jbailey> Occasionally.
Action: ajmitch is having issues with imap4d & phpgroupware :)
<ajmitch> and afaik phpgw is using the standard php4 imap functions
<jbailey> I've heard a number of people say that libc-2000 or whatever php4 uses is horribly broken.
<ajmitch> hmm
<jbailey> Of course, phpgw is horribly broken and buggy, soo...
<ajmitch> hmmph
<ajmitch> why do you say that?
<ajmitch> is it an inherent dislike of php apps?
<jbailey> No, just the bug count on the Debian packages.
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> that doesn't surprise me
<jbailey> Often they're security bugs.
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> fixed upstream
<ajmitch> this was one reason why I was asking about it the other day
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<jbailey> reinhard and all when you come back.  Becuase I did 0.5.1.DATE, 0.5.1.99 isn't an older version.  It's a one time thing, but I suspect I'll just have to roll with the final version.
<jbailey> I'll check back tomorrow about it.
<jbailey> BEd time now!
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<alandd> LuftHans: Would you stop into AZOTO for a minute?
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<alandd> dneighbo: just PLUG stuff.  You can listen in if you want.
<alandd> iPAQ difficulties remain.
<alandd> I need to try another flash card
<alandd> I have not been able to get the /usr moved into the flash card so I have room to do python and gnue
<alandd> I am pretty sure I am not doing anything wrong, since i have tried 3 times now.
<alandd> The card I have been using is pretty old and may be flaky.  I'll try another one in the next couple of days.
<dneighbo> i might have a flash card you could use if you are in a pinch
<dneighbo> alandd: i dont need to look over any plug shoulders :)
<dneighbo> i have enough on my plate
<alandd> I can borrow a card from work so I think I'll be good.
Action: ajmitch is just starting on a job this week where we use python, gtk2, and an ipaq
<alandd> ajmitch: really!  What are the specs on the ipaq?
<ajmitch> dunno yet
<ajmitch> using some linux distribution on it
<alandd> I am trying to get gnue on some 3675 models but even minimal Linux and GPE or Opie does not leave enough memory room for python, let alone gnue!
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<ajmitch> right
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<dsmith_> chillywilly: You awake?
<chillywilly> yea
<dsmith_> Cool.  I'm just playing with erc-mode
<chillywilly> freak
<dsmith_> heh
<dsmith_> It's really pretty groovy.
<dtm> 19:00 < jamest> anyone know how to make the kernel sources on debian match how they were built w/o rebuilding them
<dtm> jamest: not possible
<jamest> got it
<dtm> jamest: you can try 'insmod -f' but not likely to work
<chillywilly> what?
<jamest> i needed the version.h to match
<chillywilly> you confiure it 
<chillywilly> configure
<ajmitch> hi jamest, dtm, chillywilly, et al
<jamest> i ended up hacking the drivers install script
<chillywilly> but don't build it
<dtm> ajmitch: !
<chillywilly> simple
<dsmith_> jamest: make oldconfig
<jamest> i did that
<jamest> still sets version.h to the old one
<dtm> jamest: did i misunderstand your issue?  were you just trying to insmod/modprobe a module from a different version?
<chillywilly> cp /boot/config-x.x.x .config
<jamest> build the modules
<chillywilly> make olconfig
<dsmith_> With the right .config of course.
<jamest> did it
<jamest> version.h still gets set to the base kernel
<dsmith_> Oh.
<dtm> ajmitch: did you check out e-groupware which is a fork of phpgw?
<jamest> i know I could rebuild the entire kernel via make-kpkg and set it that way
<jamest> but more work than worth
<dsmith_> Hmm.. Debian kernels are built with make-kpkg.
<dsmith_> That stuffs an extra version string soemwhere.
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<chillywilly> version.h gets set by the make Xconfig doesn't it?
<chillywilly> make WHATEVERconfig
<jamest> set during make dep
<dsmith_> But make-kpkg does something.
<chillywilly> I don't understand what your problem is then
<dsmith_> --extrversions or somethign. For the -686 and -k9 or whatever.
<jamest> i didn't want to rebuild the whole kernel
<jamest> i wanted to load the kernel-headers and go
<jcater> jamest: of course, int he time you
<chillywilly> you can build modules against the course tree if it is configured
<jcater> 've spent working on this
<jcater> the kernel would probably be 3/4 thru :)
<chillywilly> source
Action: jcater hides
<jamest> but they set version.h to 2.4.22-1
<jamest> not 2.4.22-1-k7
<dsmith_> jamest: You *can* install the same kernel-headers as the installed kernel.
<chillywilly> wtf do I always type course instead of source
<dtm> chillywilly: becuase you're neat like that
<dsmith_> chillywilly: Not so bad, I usually mistype disk
<jamest> the fix was to change ATI's kernel module builder script to misset that value
<jcater> chillywilly: fruedian slip?
<chillywilly> jamest: doesn't debian patch the vanilla tree?
<dsmith_> jamest: You ever install a kernel-headers-*.deb ?
<chillywilly> http://members.optusnet.com.au/ckolivas/kernel/
<jamest> yes
<chillywilly> I use that patch against a linus tree
<jamest> the headers, the kernel itself they both do it
<chillywilly> build my own kernel
<chillywilly> ;P
<dsmith_> chillywilly: :þ
<jamest> i knew I could make-kpkg --append-to-version "-k7"
<jamest> but didn't want to rebuild the whole kernel
<jamest> its really a non issue
Action: jamest has a working ATI 9600 Pro dirver now
<dsmith_> jamest: So what's the problem?
<jamest> nothing now
Action: dsmith_ shuts up
<jamest> the ati source wouldn't build with the version mismatch
<chillywilly> if I rm -r my tree I could sill unpack and patch it and then configure it and build modules against it without rebuilding the whole thing
<chillywilly> ;P
<jamest> but now I'm seeing Crystalspace walktest app doing 1100FPS in places it used to max out at 70
<jamest> yes 1100
<chillywilly> w0000
Action: jamest about crapped himself
<chillywilly> what kinda card do you have?
<jamest> wait...
<jamest> yes, about crapped himself
<jamest> thought I better verify that
<chillywilly> I bought a ATI Radeon 9200 the other day
<chillywilly> an
<jamest> a 9600 Pro IIRC
<chillywilly> had to get X 4.3.x from experimental to get it to work
<chillywilly> how much?
<jamest> 175
<chillywilly> I only pasi $85 fo it
<chillywilly> for
<chillywilly> paid
<chillywilly> bleh
<chillywilly> sl;dkfjl;skdjfl;ksjdf
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<dtm> nickr_: hi
<dtm> jamest: !!!
<dtm> jamest: so it's good huh?
<dtm> jamest: i just about soiled myself tonight too, when i got some stuff working
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<dsmith_> bah
<dsmith_> Cool
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<jamest> dtm: i'm happy with it now, before I was a bit miffed at spending that much and it being useless
<dtm> jamest: oic
<jamest> anyway, l8r
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<dtm> dewd i've never seen crystalspace
<dtm> nickr_: what's up
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<alandd> LuftHans:  Are you in yet?
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--- Wed Oct 22 2003