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<GNUPredator> hey all
<GNUPredator> i just forwarded another mail to the list
<btami> good morning
<GNUPredator> jorg janke has given me permission to use the Compiere his code under the gpl
<dtm> hi
<GNUPredator> as long as i do proper copyright attribution
<dtm> GNUPredator: change your nick dewd
Nick change: GNUPredator -> mdupont
<mdupont> that is just my backup
<mdupont> you dont like ?
<dtm> mdupont: nobody knows who you are!
<mdupont> ahh
<wtg> although mdupont@... kinda gives it away =)
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<siesel> morning
<thierry_> morning
<ajmitch> hi siesel
<chillywilly> yo
<siesel> hi thierry, ajmitch and chillywilly 
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<md-afk> siesel: did you see the Compier mail?
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<thierry_> hello chillywilly
<chillywilly> hi
<siesel> md-work: which one:)
<siesel> you mean that we the postgresql version of the schema is GPLed?
<md-work> yes
<md-work> bye
<siesel> yes, I read it.
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<siesel> reinhard: do you have a minute?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> in a minute
<siesel> ok.
<reinhard> ok ready
<siesel> first: how can I check out the webpage cvs?
Action: siesel is working on the feature plan /roadmap page
<reinhard> I don't know offhand
<reinhard> but on savannah you should find advice
<reinhard> IIRC it's using /webcvs/software/gnue
<reinhard> instead of /cvsroot/gnue
<reinhard> or something close to that
<siesel> ok, I'll try later.
<reinhard> I think there is a ROADMAP.in
<reinhard> and a way to create the feature plan page from that
Action: siesel is updating that fail
<siesel> file :)
<reinhard> ah ok
<reinhard> it is empty now IIRC
<siesel> second: about the style of that roadmap.
<siesel> Should we keep it more like we have it now in ROADMAP
<siesel> i.e. have just one or two lines per release
<siesel> then I would add an other 0.0.x releases line with the single items lined up 
<reinhard> what do you mean with "single items"
<reinhard> the "Later (unsorted):" ?
<siesel> http://ischebeck.dyndns.org/~jan/ROADMAP.html
<siesel> have a look.
<reinhard> i find it confusing to have a 0.0.[678] Release as well as a 0.0.x release part
<reinhard> at first i thought that 0.0.x means 0.0.9 and following
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<reinhard> but if i now read it right it's not meant that way
<siesel> the other option would be to have a TODO, FINISHED, IN PROGRESS in every 0.0.x release
<siesel> ok, I can change 0.0.x into 0.0.1-0.0.9
<reinhard> personally i would like more to have TODO & FINISHED in every 0.0.x release
<siesel> I just thought that we don't really know which point should be implemented in which 0.0.x release, so it would be a bit more efford.
<reinhard> i would say
<reinhard> that we _mostly_ know it
<reinhard> now the 0.0.x Releases block has 2 TODO blocks
<reinhard> is that correct?
<siesel> no, please reload.
<siesel> I've another idea. just put the definitions of the subreleases in goals.
<reinhard> yeah saw it
<reinhard> i like it that way
<siesel> ok, I'll use this style.
<reinhard> just a question
<reinhard> the "TODO" for "0.1.x Releases"
<siesel> Can you now look at the single items? Is there anything you think is missing?
<siesel> ok, ask.
<reinhard> does this mean this has to be done until 0.1.0
<reinhard> or does this mean this will be done while 0.1.x and be finished before 0.2.0?
<reinhard> at first sight i would use first interpretation
<siesel> IMHO it means it should be done for 0.1.0
<siesel> So we probably should name it 0.1.0
<reinhard> no it's ok then
<reinhard> but then i'm not sure if we really want all that done before 0.1.0
<reinhard> but let's start at the top :)
<siesel> :)
<reinhard> I don't quite understand what you mean with the two points under RPC API
<reinhard> I agree with both Class Repository and Code Interface
<reinhard> I think that we should explain "OO-feeling" better
<siesel> I move that performance improvement to after 0.1.0.
<reinhard> only writing "OO-feeling" might shock some project members ;-)
<siesel> lol
<ajmitch> siesel: did you have much luck with pnet?
<reinhard> maybe something like "maintain a per-session data cache that gets reused for all accesses to the same instance in this session
<reinhard> "
<reinhard> but maybe then this is too long
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> Authentication Interface I'd personally move to after 0.1.0
<reinhard> but that's mainly because I don't need it urgently :)
<reinhard> and I'd move everything you have now under 0.1.x to after-0.1.x
<reinhard> I kinda thought that our 0.0.8 is at the same time the prerelease for 0.1.0
<reinhard> I mean no new features between 0.0.8 and 0.1.0, only fixes
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<siesel> can you do an update?
<reinhard> IMHO if we have a working appserver with remote data access and remote procedure access we can frankly call this our first milestone
<siesel> yes. That should be 0.1.0
<reinhard> looks very good now
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<reinhard> does the program to generate the .html also overwrite the TODO file?
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<reinhard> i saw that in forms etc. the TODO file seems to be generated from the ROADMAP.in file
<reinhard> if yes we would have to move our TODO items somewhere else
<reinhard> either integrate them into the roadmap or move them to BUGS
<siesel> I don't think so, but ...
<siesel> you're right.
<siesel> so I'll have to add the TODO list to the featureplan too.
<reinhard> that's better anyway
<reinhard> having a ROADMAP.in==TODO and a BUGS (2 files) is much better than having 3 different files with planned changes in them
<reinhard> now we just have to add the planned release dates
<reinhard> 0.1.0 2004
<reinhard> 0.2.0 2007
<reinhard> 0.3.0 2010
<reinhard> ;-)
<reinhard> j/k
<siesel> :)
<thierry_> reinhard, siesel: what is your job ?
<siesel> reinhard: it would be optimal if the bugs are stored in DCL at the BUGS file would be automatic generated
<siesel> Then we could have a release script which would automaticly generate CHANGES files :)
<siesel> ajmitch: sorry, for answering a bit late.
<siesel> I still have problems with pnet. So I tried spidermonkey (ECMAscript first)
<siesel> which works now. I just have to do some cleanup and then gnue-common will have support for javascript triggers.
<siesel> thierry_: GNUE :)
<thierry_> :)
<siesel> thirry: casually I still have to some real world stuff :(
<ajmitch> siesel: ok, i'll look into binding pnet in from python sometime soonish :)
<siesel> that would be REALLY great ! :)
<thierry_> siesel, hehe :)
<reinhard> siesel: currently we have more spam in DCL than bug reports
<reinhard> siesel: i have made a "postweb" script in the gnue-appserver directory
<reinhard> could you please add the necessary steps to create and commit the roadmap to the web to this script?
<siesel> I'll do.
<reinhard> thanks
<reinhard> thierry_: i work as a programmer for business applications
<reinhard> currently maintaining an old proprietary application
<reinhard> that i plan to replace with gnue someday
<thierry_> reinhard, your own company ?
<reinhard> yes
<thierry_> I have mine too
<thierry_> i'm living near germany
<thierry_> Strasbourg exactly
Action: btami is in exactly the same boat:)
<thierry_> so, if you are interested in some collaboration pls email me thierry@xtensive.com
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<siesel> reinhard: can you take a last look on the roadmap? As I added some points and want to commit.
<reinhard> looking
<reinhard> wow looks good with the boldface font :)
<reinhard> looks ok to me
Action: siesel is using postweb :)
<siesel> how long does it take to be updated on the web?
<siesel> ok, found it: 6 hour cron delay :)
<wendall911> seisel reinhard: I'm a dev for phpwebsite. We were a Nuke spinoff, but now we have developed everything from the ground up. The new code base is all OO PHP. For our upcoming 0.9.4 release, we are making many changes that could make it tie into GNUe quite easily. My question: would the addition of a CMS that can be used with GNUe be useful to the project?
<wendall911> siesel: sorry spelled your nick wrong
<siesel> wendall911: IMHO it would be fine to have a CMS added to the gnue portfolio.
Action: ajmitch thinks it would fit better with phpGroupware :)
<dtm> ajmitch: no, like almost all PHP based projects, they had to develop their own from scratch for no reason
<dtm> btdt
<siesel> But this is something which has to be discussed by all core members, i.e. a bit later today.
<ajmitch> dtm: :P
<dtm> ajmitch: but ya'd think there'd be collaboration, wouldn't ya
<ajmitch> dtm: that's my job
Action: ajmitch even gets the fancy title & all
<dtm> of what?
<siesel> wendall911: Are there any reasons why phpwebsite should be in the gnue portfolio? What are it strengths?
<dtm> you have to actually try to herd cats first.
<ajmitch> phpgroupware 'collaboration coordinator'
<dtm> ajmitch: Uh huh.
<ajmitch> dtm: yup
<wendall911> dtm: there was a reason...We wanted something maintainable. If there had been a good candidate to work with, we would have chosen that path.
<dtm> wendall911: then you would have chosen Xoops
<wendall911> seisel: it wouldn't be ready until approximately January. It's greatest strength is a good core api that allows very easy module development
<wendall911> dtm: I disagree about Xoops
<siesel> wendall911: that sounds good. What is the webpage of it?
<wendall911> siesel: we are implementing changes for universal DB usage, Translations and LDAP
<wendall911> phpwebsite.appstate.edu or sourceforge.net/projects/phpwebsite
Action: siesel is looking at the website
<wendall911> siesel: 0.9.0-0.9.3.1 have been "proof of concept" releases more than anything. With 0.9.4, we will be working toward 1.0
<siesel> wendall911: you just support MYSQL at the moment?
<wendall911> siesel: yes, we will have database independence with 0.9.4 release. Possibly earlier. Someone just submitted a patch that he uses for postgres use. I have it working under oracle 7
<wendall911> siesel: we use pear db, which is pretty is pretty much db independent. We made some mistakes that break it for other db use. Mostly, it has been a lack of people testing with other databases that has kept us from properly implementing it. (lousy excuse)
<siesel> I just saw a DESCRIBE in the database.php so ...
<siesel> But I'll like it. You should talk with derek, jamest, jcater and reinhard  about the idea of adding it to gnue and if a CMS should be added now.
<siesel> I'll ask them about the CMS question too.
<wendall911> siesel: ok, I will. I'm looking for a way to productively be involved. If this could be a way, then great. :)
<wendall911> thanks siesel, we'll talk later
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<reinhard> hi christoph
<reinhard> :)
<christoph> Ah. Hallo. Das ist das erste Mal, daß ich IRC verwende. Sitze da vor dem gaim und schau blöd....
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> christoph: usually we use english language here
<reinhard> becuase we have members from all over the world
<christoph> OK. thought so right now.
<reinhard> also you might want to know that this channel is logged
<reinhard> so we can look up earlier discussions
<christoph> that's no problem for me.
<christoph> your email address in the GNUe AUTHOR files is at bytewise.at where you show seem to deal with business software. That is windows only?
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<reinhard> bytewise maintains an old business application that is natively unix/linux
<reinhard> but is also ported to dos
<reinhard> it's non-gui text only and non-sql database
<reinhard> and i hope to someday replace this by gnue
<reinhard> that's my personal interest in this project
<christoph> I see. Do you know of some automatic and +/- reliable way to port VB to linux?
<reinhard> hmmm
<reinhard> i once read about a project that tried to implement VB in gnu/linux
<reinhard> but i don't remember offhand where i read it and don't know what the status is
<christoph> There are many out there having stupid VB programs. I thought to translate it to delphi and use it with kylix. but the software vendor told me that this is very far from automatic. In that case, I wouldn't want to accept kylix.
<christoph> The problem is of course that those systems grew over many years. manual translation might not be years but will take a fair amount of time. so it's not an option. And VB is such a stupid language, that I wouldn't want to use it in that shape on linux.
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<btami> christoph: maybe .NET/DotGNU will be the direction when time comes
<btami> but ajmitch is the person to ask about if it will be a real thing
<btami> or not
<christoph> Hm. Sorry. Didn't get this one. Are you talking about that ximian efford to replace the MS-NET idea where people use programs and files only remotely, on a foreign server?
<christoph> I'm looking for business software like what GNUe want's to be when it's grown up. wouldn't such a NET strategy by a security concern for those companies?
<btami> i really don't know how it will be happen
<btami> they promise language and platform independence
<btami> or something :)
<christoph> yes. this could be interesting for a blog, but I really wouldn't put my private files on a foreign server, and much less my business stuff, like accounting. Sure if the foreign server's owner was Microsoft, still much less.
<btami> but i just belive in GNUe :)
<christoph> Do you know of any business suite for linux which is free software and already usable, even if less ambitious than GNUe?
<btami> just we newer promise autometed conversion from VB :)
<btami> sorry, i don't...
<btami> maybe others
<christoph> also I do like GNUe's goals. I wish it already where there.
<reinhard> christoph: it could be a good idea to look out for mdupont
<reinhard> he is currently md-work
<reinhard> he searched the net for free business software
<reinhard> but i'm not sure if he had a closer look at any of them
<christoph> mdupont is an IRC user?
<reinhard> yes
<christoph> thanks for the hint.
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<havoc> ok, who are the pgsql ppl here?
Action: Vee is a pgsql boob
<Vee> heh er noob
<havoc> heh, neither of thsoe help ;)
<Vee> whatcha got?
<havoc> just random questions
<havoc> chillywilly said to ask jcater and/or someone else here
<havoc> as we are seriously considering moving from mysql to pgsql for a large project
<Vee> we're thinking about doing the same.. I'm not looking forward to it as much as I was when it was first discussed though.. 
<Vee> well.. sorta am sorta arent.. for the same reasons.. 
<havoc> any live schema conversion is a lot of work
<jcater> havoc: I know a little
Action: jcater is primarily an oracle guy
<havoc> ah
<jcater> but have used psql for smaller stuff
<havoc> how does pgsql store data?
<havoc> i.e. file/dir layout/structure
<havoc> e.g. mysql uses a dir for db, with 3 files (def., data, indicies) for each table
<thierry__> how objects relationships are handled at db level ?
<havoc> no, I was curious as to how stuff is physically stored
<jcater> I'm not 100% sure of it's format
<jcater> it stores it under /var/lib/postgres/data on debian
<jamest> it's changed recently 
<jamest> somewhere in the 7.X series
Action: jcater has never particularly cared what file-level stuff it did, so never looked in-depth at it
<havoc> it matters when you are trying to manage disk space and/or multiple partitions/raid arrays
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Action: jcater never said it didn't matter
Action: jcater just hasn't had to care yet
<jcater> I've had to do the strategic placement bit with oracle
<havoc> yeah, I'm considering that possibility
<havoc> with mysql it's easy
<havoc> not saying it's not easy w/ pgsql, just that at the moment it's unknown
<havoc> also, what's the default user/pass for a fresh pgsql install?
<jcater> I *think* you have to log in locally under the postgres unix account initially
<jcater> and set all the passwords from there
<jcater> memory is hazy on this, though
<havoc> ah
<havoc> I've got a default install, and it is runnning, and I'm trying to connect for the 1st time w/ pgadmin3
<havoc> not working
<jcater> you may need to modify pg_hba.conf
<jcater> and allow inbound TCP connections
Action: jcater thinks pgadmin would be using TCP instead of file socket
<havoc> ah
<havoc> that kinda sucks
<jcater> actually, it's postmaster.conf... make sure
<jcater> tcpip_socket = 1
<jcater> is uncommented/set
<havoc> ok, I'm not having any lick here :(
<havoc> luck even
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<havoc> ok, it's running, and accepting TCP/IP connections
<havoc> now what db do I conenct to by default?
<jcater> template1?
<Vee> is there a default?
<jcater> we need a postgres person here :)
<havoc> ok, I got it now :)
<jcater> it's the half-blind leading the blind
<jamest> template1
<havoc> ok, what's the deal with the OID thing when creating a table?
<havoc> oh, it's for the inheritance stuff
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<jamest> ?
<jamest> every row used to require an oid
<jamest> now it's optional in most user level cases
<jamest> but it's still handy 
<jamest> you can find the oid via
<jamest> select oid,* from foo;
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<dcmwai> morning siesel, How are you getting :) Better ? :)
<siesel> hi dcmwai.
<siesel> does mysql work for you now?
<siesel> havoc: if you're still around: all postgresql tables are in data/base
<siesel> but they have numbers not names.
<siesel> in the subdir below are tables and indexes, again with numbers
<siesel> if you want to put a db to another location just do a CREATE DATABASE elsewhere WITH LOCATION = '/raid/postgres/newdata'
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> ircd is lagging out on server
<chillywilly> on havocnet
<siesel> ?
<chillywilly> work irc server
<chillywilly> havoc's irc server
<chillywilly> can't ssh into the box either
<chillywilly> BAH
<siesel> so havoc isn't there although he is there :)
<chillywilly> connection timeout to irc.havoc.org
<chillywilly> he's connected to freenode just fine
<chillywilly> he just left too
<jbailey> derek: *poke*
<siesel> when you see him, just tell him "Postgresql's great!" :)
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> yea :)
<nickr> postgresql is great!
<nickr> sqlite is great!
<chillywilly> but I can't believe jcater wussed out and said he was not a postgres guy
Action: chillywilly slaps jcater with a trout
<jbailey> frellenfetischist!
Nick change: siesel -> s-cooking-trout
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> I dunno if it is just my connection or what
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Action: dcmwai is downloading new fedora.. network speed suck ;(
Action: jbailey whispers to dcmwai: "Debian..."
<jbailey> If you're going to use a community supported distro, why not use the one that has some experience at it?
<dcmwai> jbailey, again? you meant debian?
<havoc> bah
<havoc> fuckin T1 is down
<jbailey> dcmwai: Yes. =)
<dcmwai> jbailey, the ture is Debian is really too expert for me.
Action: dcmwai have try woody
<jbailey> Use the new installer.
Action: dcmwai even get killed installing.
<jbailey> Sarge is supposed to release sometime soonish, and the new installer will give you that.
<dcmwai> jbailey, sometime later :)
<havoc> these fuckerz have me on hold still
<havoc> I wonder if TWTC is having major problems
<chillywilly> havoc: I thought you left?
<havoc> had to come home to call TWTC
<chillywilly> jbailey: is there a CD w/ the new installer on it that works?
<chillywilly> havoc: ok
<havoc> server is up, T1 is not
<chillywilly> 12:23 -!- Irssi: Unable to connect server irc.havoc.org port 6667 [Connection timed out
<chillywilly> bleh
Action: chillywilly sends to hounds after TWTC
<chillywilly> s/to/the/
<chillywilly> hounds of hell ;)
<chillywilly> oh well...
<chillywilly> I can still hack on copper
<chillywilly> just no communcation w/ Ben
<chillywilly> oh no ;-o
Nick change: md-work -> mdupont
<havoc> TWTC's core router in milwaukee is down
<chillywilly> damn them ;)
<mdupont> hi all
<havoc> whole lotta ppl offline
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<havoc> chillywilly: fuck, UPS is gone, no route to it
<havoc> so much for going to see Revolutions :<
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<chillywilly> havoc: I assume these are 2 unrelated incident?
<chillywilly> incidents
<havoc> chillywilly: no, I bet they're related
<chillywilly> havoc: just go anyway ;)
<jbailey> chillywilly: I think new netinst CDs are up everyday.
<chillywilly> jbailey: where?
<chillywilly> hrrrm
Action: chillywilly looks
<chillywilly> havoc: it's not your problem ;)
<chillywilly> havoc: what can you do about it?
<havoc> chillywilly: hey, BX to irc.havoc.org via copper
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> ssh is taking its freakin time
Action: chillywilly uses an existing session
<havoc> chillywilly: ok, I'm outta here, it's back up
<chillywilly> OK
<chillywilly> woops, caps
<chillywilly> cya later
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<jbailey> chillywilly: http://gluck.debian.org/cdimage/testing/netinst/
<chillywilly> thanks
<chillywilly> jbailey: so I should grab: http://gluck.debian.org/cdimage/testing/netinst/i386/sarge-i386-netinst.iso
<chillywilly> ;P
<jbailey> Sounds right.
<chillywilly> jbailey: why don't we have an optimized version of debian...like at least i686 or something ;)
<chillywilly> piss on 386
<jbailey> Because it doesn't make squat of a difference in the end.
<chillywilly> ummm, i386 has no FPU that's kinda lame
<Vee> it was an option
Action: Vee had a 387 on his 386/40
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> Gentoo is really fast but it takes a long time to compile all the good stuff ;)
<jbailey> chillywilly: Most things on Debian will require 486 after sarge, and rely on the kernel to provide emulation.
<jbailey> All C++ already does.  The NPTL stuff does.
<chillywilly> ok
<reinhard> bbl
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<siesel>  /msg NickServ IDENTIFY itsme
<siesel> oops
<mdupont> anyone going to the LinuxTag next year ?
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<siesel> is it in March or Mai?
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<mdupont> July
<mdupont> i found a bed and breakfast in KA
<mdupont> where we can house 10 people 
<Vee> orgy?
<mdupont> not with you
<Vee> whew! ;)
<mdupont> yeah you scared me there
<Vee> so how's your work with integrator(?) going?
<mdupont> good
<mdupont> i have gotten started with DCl 
<mdupont> am am reducing the tables into factors
<mdupont> refactoring them basically
<jbailey> mdupont: You hack on dcl?
<Vee> mdupont's a wookie
<Vee> I think he just hacks on everything in sight
<chillywilly> I should try the new installer out
<Vee> chillywilly: I did earlier.. pretty slick
<Vee> love that you can start with sid right from the get-go
<chillywilly> interesting
<chillywilly> cool, I'd like that ;)
<Vee> I'd tried it back in july but it was broked, then.. looks a lot nicer since then too
<Vee> the snapshot I used was broked anyway
<chillywilly> me too
<chillywilly> didn
<chillywilly> didn't work
<jbailey> Vee: I saw the first build that had multi-language working.  That was very cool.
<jbailey> They're getting ready for a beta very soon.
<Vee> it's definately quick, too.. 
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Action: chillywilly tries the netinst image
<chillywilly> didn't configure my network atutomagically...
<chillywilly> had to go back and tell it to detect it
<Vee> worked here.. 
<Vee> found the card, ran dhcp.. 
<chillywilly> it found the right driver after that
<Vee> minor setback I guess
<chillywilly> then it went to partition the drives and I killed it cause I don't really want to reinstall ;)
<siesel> mdupont: I'll think I've time then. :)
<mdupont> ok
<mdupont> well i have now two places where we can stay
<mdupont> i want to find out how many people are coming
<mdupont> so we can book ahead of tiem
<siesel> I'll definitly be there, as it over a weekend :)
<mdupont> oh yeah? cool
<mdupont> well I will setup some list of people
<mdupont> and get some details and post it to the ml
<siesel> great. 
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<mdupont> hi reinhard
<mdupont> hi christoph
Action: mdupont is looking into patterns in DCL now
<christoph> the screenshots of DCL seem to imply it's working with a webbroswer only.
<siesel_> christoph: you talked about using VB today?
<christoph> Yes I did, but there doesn't seem to be a working solution right now.
<siesel_> It will soon be possible to execute ICL (aka .Net) Bytecode in gnue-common triggers and gnue-appserver procedures
<reinhard> christoph: however, you will have to get used to our understanding of "soon"
<reinhard> ;-)
<Vee> haha
<reinhard> j/k
<siesel_> a solution which should already work now, is to use visual studio to compile the VB code for you and use DGEE a kind of appserver of the gnuDot to execute it.
<christoph> Hm. The problem is somewhat special. There are several companies having very old and patches VB code (much of that is legacy of Clipper). Now they are afraid to be caught for piracy and need a quick and cheap solution. manual work is just not possible.
<mdupont> siesel thats right
<mdupont> and that is what i suggested as well
<siesel_> so it probably means that you have to write a special environment for that VB code.
<christoph> I'm trying to move them totally to free software
<siesel_> Is it VB code like in MS Access, or as in VB standalone?
<christoph> Standalone.
<siesel_> ok, that means that you have to rewrite some libraries.
<christoph> But everything beside the code itself is piracy. Even if they do have Visual Studio, I bet that's not legalized. I myself have not even a windows machine, and even less Visual Studio.
<christoph> rewriting microsoft originated libraries scares me.
<mdupont> you dont need to rewrite
<siesel_> it depends on how much you have to rewrite :)
<mdupont> you need to access the schema
<ajmitch> the problem is that VB->VB.NET is even a rewrite
<mdupont> and port the forms to something like gnue forms
<mdupont> i mean you dont need to port the lowlevels
<ajmitch> a minor one in some cases, but it's still a new language
<mdupont> just the schema
<ajmitch> mdupont: often a lot of code is hacked in at the forms level
<mdupont> this code needs a rewrite from what i can see christoph
<christoph> I think all this is quite complicated. the same efford spent on GNUe would give me a realworld solution.
<siesel_> ajmitch: how far is development of PNET. VB?
<ajmitch> I know of a foxpro app that has ~2000 tables, there's no way that schema could be used
<ajmitch> siesel_: the compiler isn't terribly complete, nor are the VB compatibility classes
<christoph> PostgreSQL shouldn't have a problem with 2000 tables.
<ajmitch> it's not been a high priority
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<ajmitch> christoph: no, it's not the number of tables
<ajmitch> it's the fact that it's disgustingly ugly & totally impossible to follow :)
<siesel_> wb jamest 
<ajmitch> it's only 40MB of SQL when dumped out to mysql
<christoph> There is commercial software to translate VB to delphi. That wasn't able to translate it without considerable manual work. The salesman told me, VB is a "syntax free" language which can't be dealt with.
<ajmitch> it has a dodgy heritage ;)
<christoph> Yes. Everything I see of VB is ugly und disgusting. That's the reason I tend to give up on VB and concentrate on a different system. As they do have the sources. an environment like GNUe would give them the chance to do something decent.
<christoph> mdupont, the DCL backend you are planning will use the current gnue app server?
<jbailey> Someone please make DCL not a php app....
Action: jbailey begs.
<ajmitch> jbailey: you know you love it ;)
<christoph> mdupont already promised not to do so.
Action: mdupont is working on a refactoring of dcl as we speak
<mdupont> making a real OO model from it
<mdupont> and then I can regnerate the schema
<mdupont> and gnue code
Action: mdupont has made similar project models before, about 3 times
Nick change: wendall911 -> wendall911_away
<mdupont> then you can use gnuforms on it
<mdupont> or whatever you like
<christoph> sounds good.
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<siesel_> jamest: do you have some minutes for trigger stuff?
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<jamest> i'll be choppy at best
<jbailey> chop chop, James!
Action: jamest grabs an axe
<jbailey> Err..
<jamest> the bat isn't working with the users so why not
<jbailey> I'm skinny.
<jbailey> No meat on me!
<jamest> it's all the 2nd hand dope smoke
<jamest> junkies are usually thin
<Vee> heh
<jamest> or the vegan diet
<jamest> not sure which
<jbailey> Vegan diet.
<jbailey> To get serious second hand smoke, I'd have to go home.
<siesel_> jamest: I want to rebuild the namespace code and thought about putting the whole blockname->fieldname stuff in builtin 
<jbailey> Torontonians just don't take their weed seriously. =)
<siesel_> instead of using the localns.
<siesel_> do you have any objections?
<siesel_> or reasons, why it hasn't been done this way
<jamest> no reasons that I can recall
<jamest> what does it gain us?
<siesel_> we don't have to deep copy the local namespace for every call.
<siesel_> and it would be easier for different programming languages this way.
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<jamest> fine with me
<siesel_> ok.
<siesel_> now I "just" have to implement it :)
<jamest> lol
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<reinhard> night all
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<mdupont> anyone from DCL here?
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<dcmwai> siesal...
Action: dcmwai see no siesel.
<dcmwai> the modification that made my siesel.. make the mysql work :)
<dtm> who's using mysql?1
<dtm> !
<dcmwai> Me loh.. :( and also aria-erp
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<derek> hi alandd
<dtm> derek.
<dtm> peace be unto you, o my brother.
<alandd> derek and all: hello
<dtm> alandd: ahoy
<alandd> Just stopping in for a few minutes to see what's going on.
<alandd> dtm: was it you that said you are doing a project with ipaqs?
<alandd> derek: I am indirectly pushing to get the gnue presentation going at work before Thanksgiving
Action: alandd leaves the real pushing to Darren
<derek> cool
<derek> btw: responded to your bittorrent thread on plug
<derek> re: sharingthegroove.org is the best bittorrent place for trading live music 
<derek> opposed to etree
<alandd> oh.  I'll have to look.
<derek> and if you were looking for live music let me know.. guy at work probably has over 1000 shows
<derek> so he is good source (but his taste is a bit different from mine)
<derek> if you are looking for metallica or korn shows i can help you out :)
<dtm> alandd: no sorry, no ipaq here.
<alandd> dtm: k, no problem.
<dtm> :)
<alandd> derek: I was shooting to grab the torrent for Fedora and to learn torrent in the process
<derek> ah
<derek> btguidownload nameoftorrentfile
<derek> thats as tough as bit torrent has been for me :)
<alandd> but I will have to explore the other stuff that is out there
<derek> i use it a bit
<alandd> I need to punch my firewall too
<derek> dont seed much (but generally let it run for as long as it takes me to snarf)
<derek> got matrix trailers that way
<alandd> It'll be a new experience for me.  I never did the napster, kazaa, etc. thing
--- Fri Nov  7 2003