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<thierry___> morning all
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<dcmwai> Morning
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<dtm> hi all
<dcmwai> hello
<dcmwai> anyone use gnueDesign to design a report before?
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<dtm> hi all
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<jcater> any redhat ppl here?
Action: jcater is having to do some stuff on redhat
<dtm> jcater: redhat user here
<jcater> is there an apt-get equivalent?
<dtm> yes
<dtm> we call it apt-get
<jcater> or an easy way to find out if a package is on one of the 4 CDs I have?
<dtm> yes, we call it 'find'  :)
<jcater> :(
<dtm> er, uh, i dont know about removables.
<dtm> never had the occasion
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<dsmith> jcater: I do belive that the best way of locating rpm on cdrom is just to look for it.  find, ls, whatever.
<jcater> ok
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> this is frustrating
<jcater> rpm -i something
<jcater> (failed dependencies... install xxxx)
<jcater> rpm -i xxxx
<jcater> (failed dependencies... install yyyy,zzzzz)
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> is there something at least like dselect that you know of?
<derek> i didnt read back log
<derek> but there is apt-get
<derek> for redhat
<derek> supposedly it works nicely and has plethora of packages
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<chillywilly> rpms suck
<chillywilly> ;P
<dtm> jcater: yeah , did you just block out the part where i said you can use apt?  :)
<jcater> dtm: sorry
<jcater> thought you were being sarcastic
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<jcater> and teasing me
<dtm> uhhhhhhhhh.
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<dtm> *boggle*
<dtm> sure, ok
<dsmith> jcater: You are now experienceing the "joys" of RedHat!
<jcater> dsmith: not only redhat, but redhat enterprise AS 3.0!
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<jcater> so packages you find for RedHat 8/9/etc don't work!
<dtm> and i'm now experiencing the "joys" of debian.  the pure, unadulterated community ignorance and bigotry!
<dsmith> heh
<dtm> unabashed!  gleeful, even!
Action: dsmith owns the DEBIAN license plate for Ohio
<derek> hmm i ALMOST got GNU plates yesterday when renewing my license plate
<derek> just couldnt justify paying 25 more...
<derek> for the record AZ registration is out of control
<dtm> derek: that woulda been neat.
<derek> i think for single year my rate was 276
<derek> and my car is going on 3 years old
<derek> i.e. this is its third registration
<dtm> the CA registration is so out of control that it's one of the first things Arnold promised to undo
<dtm> it'll just flat out force cars off the road en masse
<dtm> it's based on the car's market value
<dsmith> 276!
<chillywilly> dtm: debian ownz you
<dtm> no, i'm afraid not.
<dsmith> derek: For *one* car?
<chillywilly> dtm: talking crap about debian will make you many enenmies in this channel, not to mention I will be forced to beat you with a trout every second for the rest of the day
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<dtm> chillywilly: well then it's a good thing i never talk crap about debian
<chillywilly> you were talking crap about the community, that's bad enough
<chillywilly> dtm: I think you're the on bigoted against teh debian community
<dtm> one might encourage you to find something else to be offended, and to offend, over
<chillywilly> dtm: find a new rant
<dtm> i suppose i could be bigoted against bigots :/  sorry
<dtm> wait, no, i'm not.
<jbailey> What's this?  I show up to Debian bashing? =)
<chillywilly> dtm: well just so you know you lump good guys like jbailey in there everytime you spew off at the debian community...I take offence to this?
<chillywilly> s/?//
<chillywilly> offense too
<chillywilly> hi jbailey ! ;PO
<jbailey> Hey Dan. =)
<jbailey> I have a forms question:
<jbailey> Is it possible to have one gfd file chain to another one?
<jbailey> Like, I'm thinking to hop to different databases or whatnot, provide the same user and password information and starting query / page?
<jbailey> Or is that just restricted to the tabs?
<jbailey> ANd failing that, is it possible to put a button on a page that forces it to hop to a different tab with a different query?
<derek> dsmith: yeah one car
<derek> when we had an expensive car on its first year registration was over 400
<dsmith> derek: Ohio (depending on county) is more ike $40
<derek> expensive == 27,000 or so
<chillywilly> the cost was $400?!?
<chillywilly> to register it?
<derek> here they base it on market value of the car
<chillywilly> why?
<dsmith> derek: But I has to fork over about $35 extra for the DEBIAN
<chillywilly> holy shit
<chillywilly> what a racket
<chillywilly> in WI it is the same flat fee
<chillywilly> never changes
<chillywilly> probably about $40, but I don't remember
<derek> i want to say its about 180 per 10,000
<chillywilly> that is way outta control
<derek> so an escalade is about 900 to register
<dtm> sounds like CA
<derek> i think the idea is right personally
<derek> as im a socialist by nature
<derek> BUT i think the scale is wrong
<derek> actually i cant lie... i dont think the scale is that wrong either
<derek> they need to do things to encourage public transportation (imho)
<derek> it should be expensive to own cars (as they are a waste)
<derek> its the whole corporate bullcrap
<derek> just like anyone with a computer more than 8 months old says its a piece of crap not worth anythnig
<derek> we are that way with cars now
<derek> look on the streets (at least here and LA)
<derek> its hard to find a car that is 10 years old
<derek> then look at cuba where they still have cars running from the 50s
Action: jcater kicks his '84 toyota truck
Action: derek stops ranting... before he looks like some throwback communist
<derek> sadly i have two new cars and i hate myself for it
<dtm> :/
<jcater> we have one half-way working truck
<jcater> and that's about it
<jcater> wife totalled the saturn
<derek> ouch
<derek> she make it out ok?
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> looks like she may need knee surgery
<jcater> but we aren't 100% sure yet
<derek> if it is ACL surgery i sympathize for you in advance
Action: jcater will be buying another car next weekend, I think
<jcater> but I'll be paying cash for it :)
Action: jcater does a happy dance
<jcater> ACL?
<derek> coolness
<derek> Anterior Crucial Ligament
<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> it's a torn ligament
<jcater> dunno specifics
<derek> its the ligament that holds the femur to the tibia/fibia
<derek> and its gnarly surgery
<jcater> ?
<derek> basically they have to drill a hole through your femur (biggest bone in body)
<derek> and through your t/fibia
<derek> then they remove a piece of muscle from your thigh
<derek> and feed through the holes the drilled
<derek> and tie a knot on both sides
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> lovely
<derek> and graft it to the bone
<derek> lets say 8 years ago it was inpatient surgery
<derek> they could cut you from mid thigh to mid shin
<derek> and you would be in traction for a few weeks
<derek> now it is out patient surgery
<derek> with like 3 holes the size of a pencil eraser
<derek> BUT
<derek> would you rather a nurse take care of your wife in traction at a hospital
<derek> OR
<derek> you take care of her at home in traction while TJ is jumping on her and driving her mad?
Action: derek iterates again.. my sympathies go out in advance for you if it is ACL surgery
<derek> not that i have had the joy of experiencing it with my wife or anythting ;)
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<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I think her mother will be coming down
<jcater> how is recovery?
<jcater> once it's fixed, do you pretty much forget about later in life
<jcater> or is it something that keeps coming back to haunt you?
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<dsmith> dtm: Re Debian and distro wars etc.
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<dtm> dsmith: what, now?
<dsmith> Basially, redhat (and others) are in buisness to make money.  As a side effect, they make a pretty good product, but thats just so people will buy it (and support or whatever). Debain has the goal of making the most technically excellent distro possible.
<dsmith> Using RedHat is ok.
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<derek> jcater: haunts you forever pretty much
<derek> when it is humid it aches like arthritis
<derek> wife said still doesnt feel the same (though it does feel better)
<derek> she said if she had to do it over, she probably wouldnt have the surgery
<derek> not because the surgery was so horrid, but she wasnt really in pain as much as general discomfort doing certain things
<derek> now that its repaired its better but on occassion discomfort
<derek> it depends a lot on the person though
<derek> i know a few guys at work that were back on their feet quickly and love it
<derek> however, i dont think they are as active as my wife
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<derek> bye bye zelazny 
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<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> well, my wife is fairly active
<jcater> she occasionally gets up from the couch to get food
Action: dtm activates jcater's wife... bZZZzzt!
<nickr> doh
<dtm> lessee...  where's the dial on this thing...
<dtm> doh
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<Vee> any of you use a cvs front end? favor one over the other? 
<dtm> Vee: i like chrome.  but i can only afford tupperware.  it gets the job done.
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<Vee> heh
Action: Vee is looking for an free(beer!) solution
<nickr> cvs sux, there is only subversion.
<dsmith> Vee: I usually use emacs with cvs
<Vee> is there a nice front end to subversion? :)
<nickr> several
<nickr> but I use emacs with it.
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<dsmith> nickr: What emacs code so you  use?  According to http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2003-07/msg00017.html there are 3 different interfaces.
Action: dsmith is looking at subversion
<nickr> I use svn-something
<nickr> but
<nickr> I didn't know about three
<nickr> I only found the one
<dsmith> nickr: Did it come with emacs, or subversion?
<nickr> from reading the message, I don't tihnk I use any of those
<nickr> neither
<nickr> I did a google search
<nickr> and found a thing.
<dsmith> Ah.
<nickr> I like the way it works, but there are annoyances
<nickr> It'd be nice if it noticed that I was using a subversion managed directory
<nickr> and then every time I close a buffer ask me to enter a log for the changes
<nickr> then generate a whole log based on those logs when I commit
<nickr> or at least stick the filenames taht changed in the default log when I commit
<nickr> anyway
<nickr> like
<nickr> yea it'd be cool if it stuck the filenames in the default log
<nickr> and whenever I moved to a line with a filename, it would open a diff in the other window
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<dsmith> nickr: It's emacs, you can make it do that.
<nickr> I could with extreme amounts of pain and suffering.
<nickr> which I really don't have time for
<jbailey> nickr: There's *always* time for BDSM games!
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<dsmith> jbailey: bdsm?
Action: Vee covers his ears and eyes and goes into the "LALALALA" song
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<dtm> mdupont: !!!
<mdupont> dtm: !
<mdupont> Sup Dewd
<mdupont> ?
<dtm> stuff.
<mdupont> cool
<dtm> i'm pretty sure my body just decided about an hour ago that it's 2am.
<mdupont> stuff is better than no stuff
<dtm> :<
<Vee> dtm: mine as well.. 
<Vee> so sleepy
<dtm> :<
<mdupont> dtm:  sometimes closing your eyes can help
<dtm> yeah, while laying down in the dark
<Vee> krt'asdlf
<dtm> :/
<dtm> a;ldkfjad
<dtm> that was Vee's head hitting the keybd
<nickr> lie down on the floor and keep calm
Action: dtm joins Vee 
<mdupont> a 10 minute reboot can do wonders
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<mdupont> beuenas diaz mcuria
<Vee> mdupont, international man of mystery.
<mdupont> you got it
Action: Vee rubs the key shaped indentations in his forehead
<mdupont> but i cannot spell
<mdupont> had a nice nap Vee?
<Vee> too much on my mind to actually reach a full shutdown :(
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<nickr> explode mystic dove
<nickr> kthx
<Vee> mmm.. feathers..
<jbailey> dsmith: Ah, hmm.  bdsm isn't in dict.
Action: Vee listens to Sade.. (which is in dict, btw.)
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<jbailey> I know someone who did her Masters dance/acting project on the Marquis.
<jbailey> I only saw one of the pieces entitles 'pleasure'.
<jcater> was it a pleasure?
<jbailey> Yes.
<dsmith> <jbailey> nickr: There's *always* time for BDSM games!
<jbailey> bdsm is a grouped acronym with three letter couplings:  BD is for Bondage/Dominance. DS is for Dominance/Submission.  SM is for Sadism/Masochism.
<jbailey> BDSM is the term used by that community to define the activities, but also noting that they are quite similar, especially when it comes to safe play (concent, physical/emotional safety, etc)
<jbailey> (I've apparently managed to silence the channel...)
<dsmith> Yoiks!
<Vee> that's a good definition, jbailey. You should submit it to the dict folks, however that works.. 
<mdupont> jbailey: i kinda figured that.
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<jbailey> Vee: I haven't a clue.  All I ever see in dict is websters 1913, and ESR's computer jargon.
<jbailey> mdupont: dsmith had asked. =)
<mdupont> well i did not know, but you learn something new every day
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<siesel> hi all
<mdupont> hi siesel
<siesel> hi Mike :)
<mdupont> Hi Jan
<jbailey> mdupont: Whether you want to or not. =)
<mdupont> yeah
<mdupont> well right now i am learning about how difficult it is to make a good model
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<mdupont> jbailey: how do you use gnue?
<mdupont> does anyone *use* gnue here?
<jbailey> mdupont: Network documentation repository.
<mdupont> cool
<mdupont> so for making a complete applicatoin in house?
<jbailey> Just a database front end, no triggers or anything like that.
<jbailey> I have some things I eventually want to use it for, but it doesn't have the features yet.
<jbailey> And I haven't found the goats that jcater asked for in exchange for doing the coding.
<mdupont> jbailey: you know what they call a whorehouse in turkey
<mdupont> ?
Action: mdupont is trying to tell a joke, not offend anyone
<jbailey> Nope. =)
<mdupont> a goat in a dixie tolliette
<jbailey> (Most interesting jokes offend *someone*)
<jbailey> I don't think I get it. =)
<mdupont> dont worry
<mdupont> it was not appropriate
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<mdupont> jbailey: what coding?
<mdupont> did jcarter ask for?
<mdupont> what does jcater do?
<jbailey> Well, jcater and jamest.
<mdupont> they are the gnue guys, right?
<jbailey> I want a bunch of features that would make forms usable in for web applications.
<jbailey> There's a few little things I need.
<jbailey> (sorry, distracted with work)
<mdupont> ahhh
<mdupont> i want that as well
<jbailey> Yes, the GNUe folks.
<mdupont> i am also busy
<jbailey> There are others, too/
Action: mdupont has yet to run forms properly
<mdupont> i like the idea....
<jbailey> GNUe still retains the weakness that changing things in designer, etc, doesn't update the database schema itself.
<jbailey> So you still maintain some disconnect there.
<mdupont> yeah
<jbailey> It'll be nice if/when there's a way to force them to stay in sync.
<mdupont> yes
<mdupont> well i am working on some stuff in that direction
<mdupont> being able to programmatically create the database
<mdupont> but it will be a bit before i have my model ready
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<psu> hmmm
<psu> according to www.dvla-som.co.uk
<psu> I can get most GNU-related plates in UK for £250 in the "old style" 
<psu> "new style" ones seem to start at £499
<psu> ;-/
<jbailey> Wow.
<jbailey> I guess it's cheaper than driving in London for a month or two.
<psu> get a dual-fuel car (LPG + unleaded)
<psu> even if you never actually use LPG, you're still exempt from Congestion Charge in London
<psu> but not in Durham City ;-)
<ajmitch> hi
<psu> hi ajmitch
<jbailey> Nice. =)
<jbailey> Can you just do the conversion yourself?
<jbailey> It costs about $2k canadian to do it on most cars.
<psu> not sure
<psu> I *think* you just pay the fee to the DVLC
<psu> then get a local garage to knock up the plates for you
<psu> Paying for number plates used to be one of the car dealer's tricks for bumping up price of a new car
<psu> but these days public pressure/consumer protection regulation means they normally quote "on the road" prices 
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<mouns> bonwi
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<mdupont> please test DCL (double choco latte) introspector http://introspector.sourceforge.net/2003/11/dcl-introspector-0.1.tgz
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<jemfinch> oops, my question is moot!
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<Vee> heh
<dneighbo> Vee: you scaring them off again
<Vee> I BATHED! this time.
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<nickr> gasp
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Action: dcmwai want to know where is siesel....
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--- Sat Nov 15 2003