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<gsoti_away> hello LuftHans
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<Acenoid> whops sorry ;)
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<dtm> hi guys
<dtm> Vee is scaring more people away and he's not even here!  :/
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<Vee> heh
<dtm> Vee: !!!  so you ADMIT IT
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<dtm> dcmwai: hi
<dcmwai> hello dtm
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<Vee> so's kde busted in sid, right now?
<Vee> I was gonna install it on this laptop but it dont seem to wanna install.. 
<Vee>   kde-core: Depends: kdebase but it is not going to be installed
<dtm> neat.
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<dcmwai> haha :)
<dcmwai> Night :)
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<rerwer> .
<dtm> .
<rerwer> ..
<dtm> ..
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<rerwer> Anybody here have Jan's (seisel's) URL for installing database support files?
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<bully_> hi
<dtm> bully_: hi there
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<chillywilly> no more bullies
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<rerwer> 12[1siesel12]11 Jan, could you remind me of the URL for your page of info on installing the database underpinnings for running Forms. tnx.
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<rerwer> siesel Or just your home page.
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<btami> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/
<rerwer> Thanks. I'll give that a try.
<rerwer> 12[1btami12]11 yup, that's what I was needing.
<btami> rerwer: what platform?
<rerwer> Either Suse 9.0 or M$ XP Professional. I'm on the latter right now.
<btami> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/Install_GNUe-CVS-Snapshot_on_Win32_mini-HOWTO.html
<rerwer> Goog stuff. Thanx.
<rerwer> Good, that is... :)
<btami> ok, bye
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<LuftHans> dneighbo_: it's been 3 seconds and I haven't seen a response :(
<LuftHans> :)
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<dneighbo_> ?
<dneighbo_> response to what?
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<LuftHans> the email I was sending as you logged in :)
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<derek> ?
<derek> i didnt get an email
Action: derek is lost
<derek> doh now it shows up
<derek> what kind of jack is that
<LuftHans>  :)
<LuftHans> http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=85942&cid=7478574
<LuftHans> I like the ferret follow-up :)
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<derek> http://www.bookcrossing.com
<derek> it is too cool
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<alandd> derek: I installed the Familiar Linux based "pypaq" distro on one of the ipaqs
<alandd> it has the minimal GPE enviornment and python, all in the distro!
<ajmitch> useful
<alandd> look at this:
<alandd> ~ # python
<alandd> Python 2.3.2 (#1, Oct  8 2003, 17:33:47)
<alandd> [GCC 3.3.2 20030908 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
<alandd> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
<alandd> >>> exit
<alandd> 'Use Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit.'
<alandd> >>>
<ajmitch> :)
<alandd> now, time to get gnue on there.  Got to check for space first.
<alandd> brb
<LuftHans> alandd: update me later on how long you think it'll take to get GNUe working on that
<LuftHans> I'm gonna update my iPAQ, but I might go with pypaq if I can get the rest of GPE
<LuftHans> leaving to see Traveler now, though
<alandd> b
<alandd> pypaq had nothing but the desktop and utilities.
<alandd> had/has
<alandd> you would want more for calendar, etc.  It doesn't even have xterm!  Has ssh though.
<alandd> this is good so there is more space for python apps.
<LuftHans> yeah, but you can use ipkg to get them
<LuftHans> right?
<alandd> absolutely
<LuftHans> I think I have space
<alandd> how long it will take?  I hope I can just copy gnue-common and forms in there and have it work.
<alandd> I hope.
<alandd> we'll see later this evening.
<alandd> too many nieces and nephews over right now.
<alandd> gotta watch kids.
<alandd> have fun at Traveler
<alandd> brb
<LuftHans> use MythTV, so you can pause them :)
<derek> cool
<derek> on all accounts
<alandd> b
<chillywilly> hi all
<alandd> yo
<alandd> derek: must go check my notes to remember what apps to put on the ipaq.
<alandd> also must download gnue.  My local version is old.
<alandd> is cvs of common and forms "safe?"
<chillywilly> you know you really have to do some nasty SQL to do anything useful
<alandd> chillywilly: me?
<chillywilly> just in general
<chillywilly> hmmm, poor Diebold
<alandd> no what
<chillywilly> they are up shit creek w/o a paddle
<alandd> gotta link?
<chillywilly> http://www.eff.org/Legal/ISP_liability/OPG_v_Diebold/20031114_eff_pr.php
<chillywilly> you'ver heard about their voting machines?
<alandd> been loosely following it
<chillywilly> that' from the Effector published by the EFF
<chillywilly> that's
<chillywilly> http://www.eff.org/news/breaking/archives/2003_11.php#001027
<alandd> aaww.  poor Diebold.
<chillywilly> HEH
<SachaS> hi chillywilly
<chillywilly> gross incompetece
<chillywilly> incompetence
<chillywilly> hello SachaS 
<SachaS> I know you are a friend of MDA Model Driven Architecture (or is it Application)
<SachaS> ;)
<chillywilly> umm, well it's an interesting thing, but I don't know much about it
<SachaS> ok.
<chillywilly> SachaS: mdupont is working on his introspector project which seems similar
<chillywilly> and there
<SachaS> i am not sure what the history is about procedures and business process in gnue
<chillywilly> there's metawrap
<SachaS> being into buisness process a little bit
<SachaS> it seems to me that a modelling tool for procedures or processes would allow cool things
<chillywilly> yea
<SachaS> http://www.nextj.com/nextjeb.html
<SachaS> was on freshmeat today or yesterday
<SachaS> thats sort of what would be cool
<chillywilly> it be interesting if at some point people could make software engineering more automated...I dunno if that will ever happen
<SachaS> model your processes in a tool with some introsection, like to find out what objects we have in gnue db, and then hit a generate buttion
<chillywilly> yea
<SachaS> which spits out a schema instnace document of a process
<SachaS> then have a schema execution engine in app server
<SachaS> ;)
<alandd> So, wanting to run run common and forms on ipaq.  What should I download?  CVS or a different package?
<chillywilly> cool stuffI hear a lot about "Code Generation":
<SachaS> i dont know what i shall think of web services
<SachaS> there is bpe4ws
<SachaS> business process execution language for web services
<SachaS> which has internal as well as collaborative business processes
<SachaS> ther eis also ebXML Busienss Process (only collaborative) and www.bpml.org
<SachaS> well well
<SachaS> oh yeah and ibm provides a execution engine for bpel
<alandd> what is the anonymous CVS password?  blank and "anonymous" don't work.
<chillywilly> bpml?
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<SachaS> bpml business process modeliing language
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> you typed bpel
<chillywilly> was that a typo?
<chillywilly> or something else?
<SachaS> i am lost
<chillywilly> 20:20 < SachaS> oh yeah and ibm provides a execution engine for bpel
<chillywilly> 20:21 < chillywilly> bpml?
<chillywilly> s/bpel/bpml/ ?
<chillywilly> ;P
<SachaS> ibm provides a execution engine for bpel
<SachaS> not bpml
<chillywilly> wtf is bbel?
<chillywilly> bpel rather
<SachaS> business process execution language
<SachaS> basically a schema
<SachaS> from m$ and ibm but now at OASIS
<chillywilly> people just don't realize hoe secksy ERP is ;)
<chillywilly> how*
<SachaS> yep i have to finish this #½@#"*ç%& thesis then I can get into it more.
<SachaS> gtg
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<alandd> The default install location for gnue-common appears to be /usr/local/gnue.  What about gnue-forms?
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<alandd> I have an important quesiton.  Anybody live?
<alandd> On my workstation, I ran "./setup.py install" as root.  it worked fine.
<derek> and what happens on ipaq?
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<alandd> but now I want to install to my home directory with "./setup.py install --home=~/gnue --install-scripts=~/bin"
<alandd> derek: not on ipaq yet.
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<alandd> I think if I install to the workstation home.
<alandd> I can scp it all to the ipaq user home
<derek> alandd: i dont think that the --home= stuff works 
<derek> you would be better off if using cvs doing thet setup-cvs.py trick
<derek> if that is still around
<derek> been a while since i ran cvs (i.e. not since they redid some install sttuff)
<alandd> the ipaq /usr/local is in the flash rom and it is nearly full so I need to install to /home as it is in mostly empty ram
<alandd> I am using 0.5.2
<alandd> my question is, assuming the --home stuff works (as in the INSTALL file), will it work even thought the default root install already ran?
<alandd> I'm just going to try it anyway.
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<alandd> b
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<alandd> the setup.py --home stuff appears to work.
<alandd> the ram part of the user home directory is /home/alandd/ramdisk directory on the ipaq,
<alandd> so I installed on the workstation with --home=~/ramdisk/gnue with the goal of dumping this same directory structure to the ipaq
<alandd> At the end of this effort with common, I got the following warning:
<alandd> warning: install: modules installed to '/home/alandd/ramdisk/gnue/lib/python/', which is not in Python's module search path (sys.path) -- you'll have to change the search path yourself
<alandd> I am not yet a Python programmer.  What does this warning mean?  is sys.path the filename that needs editing?
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> it's a list
<chillywilly> a list object
<alandd> ok
<alandd> how do I change it myself?
<chillywilly> sys.path.append("/path/to/module") IIRC
<alandd> and this statement goes where?  I could grep for it in the sources, right?
<chillywilly> I guess so ;)
<alandd> a hunting I will go, a hunting I will go, hi ho the dairy-o, a hunting I will go.
<chillywilly> in the wrapper script(s) maybe
<alandd> do I have to change it before the install for the bit-compile?
<chillywilly> I thought setup.py would modify the scripts for you and setup the proper env but I haven't installed it other than using the cvs setup
<alandd> [alandd@localhost gnue]$ grep -r sys.path *
<alandd> lib/python/gnue/common/apps/GBaseApp.py:        if not p in sys.path:
<alandd> lib/python/gnue/common/apps/GBaseApp.py:          sys.path.append(p)
<alandd> [alandd@localhost gnue]$
<chillywilly> anyone here that Farscape may come back?
<chillywilly> http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/440/440604p1.html?fromint=1
<chillywilly> Farscape mini-series
<alandd> not me.
<chillywilly> http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/371/371308p1.html
<chillywilly> that's an interesting article
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<dtm> ajmitch_: hi there
<alandd> ok
<alandd> the sys.path object is in GBaseApp.py, as I pointed out above.
<alandd> The variable "p" is filled in from ImportPath in GCConfig.py.
<alandd> is there a .conf file somewhere with an ImportPath entry?  I'm hunting for it now.
<alandd> no luck.
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<alandd> dtm: ever seen this?
<alandd> warning: install: modules installed to '/home/alandd/ramdisk/gnue/lib/python/', which is not in Python's module search path (sys.path) -- you'll have to change the search path yourself
<alandd> after setup.py of common?
<dtm> nope.  i've never used anything written in python.
<chillywilly> dtm is teh suck
<dtm> :/
<dtm> yeah.
<alandd> dtm: you hang out here but you don't use python?
<dtm> alandd: it would seem that those are two dots one could connect within the scope of my existance
<dtm> two facts which simultaneously coexist
<dtm> **chilling**
<dtm> now i'm totally freaked out, at your discovery
<dtm> i dont know if i can go on.
Action: alandd shivers
<dtm> oh whatever shall become of this debacle?!?!
<alandd> I think you'll live.
<dtm> will I?!?  will I really?!  but for WHAT?
Action: dtm sobs
<alandd> He who has no vision, has no reality.
<dtm> :-I
Action: dtm has a vision
Action: dtm envisions......   reality!
<alandd> well, I think I am done for tonight.  I'll document my progress thus far and head for bed.
Action: dtm envisions the original Catwoman, riding with Bruce Wayne in the back of a taxi....
<alandd> um, that's enough sharing for now, dtm.
--- Sun Nov 16 2003