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<b3ar> this is dcmwai using other ppl Pc...
<b3ar> jcater, are you there?
Action: b3ar think jcater should be sleeping :)
<Vee> it's 2am here
<b3ar> Vee, hello it is 4pm here :)
<b3ar> Vee, Why you are still there?
<Vee> i'm most productive during this period
Action: b3ar think everybody love to work at late Night.... When the Moon is High in the Sky...
<b3ar> wind is blowing slowly. The City is quite and minimal disturbance :)
<b3ar> Yes :)
Action: b3ar now know why his gnue report server halt...
<ajmitch> hi
<b3ar> ajmitch, hello :)
Action: b3ar is checking time here and there :)
Action: ajmitch checks to see if b3ar == fred_frog ;)
<b3ar> ajmitch, I'm dcmwai.. :)
<b3ar> Test me :)
<ajmitch> ok we'll let you live :)
<b3ar> haha :)
<ajmitch> how goes the reports stuff?
<b3ar> ajmitch, how to say.. Half way to go.
<b3ar> ajmitch, they have output at xml and the sub-total really funny...
<b3ar> ajmitch, they can only calculate sum(X fields) but not Sum (A x b) fields...
<ajmitch> hmm, who to blame?
<ajmitch> that is annoying
<ajmitch> are you using reports from php?
<b3ar> ajmitch, Yep :)
<ajmitch> going to write up some documentation about it? :)
<b3ar> ajmitch, well it is pretty simple.. :)
Action: ajmitch could probably find some use for it in phpgroupware :)
<b3ar> but it will be hard if you don't know it (it take me months to get it) where it is on a gnue-report/sample/phpform files
<ajmitch> that's why i want docs ;)
<b3ar> ajmitch, you can get the gcomm and a test.php there . and it is working..
<ajmitch> ok
<b3ar> I'm still halt on the xml --> html/pdf/text stage..
<b3ar> have to edit the xslt files.. which I don't know much.. :)
<ajmitch> ha..
<ajmitch> sounds like good fun
<b3ar> ajmitch, You can try ...
Action: ajmitch finds some rope to hang himself first :)
<b3ar> ajmitch, Well I'm thinking of a way so that there are 3 button on there so that people can choose what format it want...
<b3ar> but I think it will be a harder jobs..
<b3ar> No need to hang yourself... 
<b3ar> ajmitch, I still need you help :)
<ajmitch> my help? :)
Action: ajmitch fails to see how he can possibly help
Action: b3ar know that Vee and ajmitch know more on PHP then he is :)
Action: ajmitch falls to the floor laughing
<ajmitch> you know how long i've been coding php for? :)
<b3ar> ajmitch, don't know.
<b3ar> 1 months?
<ajmitch> 2 weeks
<b3ar> ajmitch, You sure?
<ajmitch> yes
<b3ar> then who is the phpgroupware guy other then you?
<ajmitch> might be a little less
<ajmitch> there are lots of phpgroupware people :)
Action: ajmitch is involved with phpgroupware without doing much coding :)
<b3ar> in this channel most of the time ...
<ajmitch> I understand enough php to get by
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> dtm used to be involved a bit, I think
Action: ajmitch can't think of who else
<b3ar> then it might be dtm :)
<b3ar> well not you :-D
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> now be nice :P
<b3ar> haha :)
Action: b3ar is very boring about this problem :(
Action: b3ar think maybe siesel will read the log....
<b3ar> ok
<b3ar> siesel, $engine->execute("processReport",array("/var/amtb-m.org.my/intranet/arias-test/invpo.grd", array("purchaseid=5"), 0, 0, 0));
<b3ar> the array("purchaseid=5"), don't seem to be the working way. What is the way to make it working?
<ajmitch> ('purchaseid' => 5), perhaps?
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<ajmitch> hi mouns
<b3ar> No
<mouns> hi ajmitch and people :)
<b3ar> ajmitch, have to get the people to write that... and ask him.. :)
<ajmitch> ok
<b3ar> this is not well doced... :(
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<siesel> morning
<siesel> dcm_3bear_wai: you're gone :(
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<Fred_Frog> Hoderr all.
<Fred_Frog> Can we assemble a rump committee to abolish GNUe?
<Fred_Frog> It would be a first in software history: a development group that had the honesty to say "We have studied our work and came to the conclusion that it doesn't."
<dtm> Fred_Frog: you're no longer welcome here.  go away.
<dtm> Fred_Frog: also, don't talk to me or about me.  just go away.
<Fred_Frog> dtm GNUe is no longer welcome in the the GNUiverse. I am the good guy thrying to help you guys out of denial.
<dtm> Fred_Frog: what did I just say?  and that's a rhetorical question.  dont answer it.  only obey it.
Action: dtm rouses jamest and jcater to do their duty
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<dtm> siesel: ahoy
<Fred_Frog> 'Morning Jan.
<Fred_Frog> If a program is data, and self-reflection is a feature of god languages, wouldn't GNUe be showing good style by looking at itself and saying "Oops, we didn't work"?
<Fred_Frog> The "oops" bit would be particularly nice style.
<dtm> Fred_Frog: no.  you would, though.
<dtm> Fred_Frog: stop talking.
<dtm> here, anyway.
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<Fred_Frog> Lemme put it this way: How would it be if everybody who has written a bit of documentation that is a lie took it off the net?
<Fred_Frog> Then the neigborly folks responsible for the page of dishonesty at Savannah would shut that down.
<Fred_Frog> Then whoever owns the URL GNUe would simple ask the registry to take it out.
<Fred_Frog> The whole thing would live on in caches for a few months -- to the dishonor of the people who have been running it for the last little while -- but over tie it would be forgotten.
<Fred_Frog> That scenario assumer there is nobody with the good style and verve to go out in a flame of honest, self reflective, fire.
<Fred_Frog> What has generally happened, of course is different: people have arrived, made some noise, written some vapor, and then slunk off, leaving nothing behind but noise. info-pollution.
<jamest> Fred_Frog: i've tried to be reasonable, in fact I've defended against banning you, however it's reaching a point that enough of the people who's opinions I do care about have requested you be banned
<dtm> <3
<jamest> you come in here, insult our project, ignore the people that ARE using in to MAKE MONEY
<jamest> and I've yet to see anything with regard to actual usefull contributions or input from you
<dtm> and with absolutely no rationale or point, let alone proof.  
<dtm> whereas all of us know as an empirical fact based on community knowledge or personal practice, that it's all false.  opposite of reality.
<jamest> i do want to be reasonable and fair, and you are very much intitled to your opinion
<jamest> but this borders on harassment 
<jamest> i request that you either produce a USEFULL contribution to our project, or if you feel so strongly that GNUe is a waste of time and an insult to GNU that you take it up with the FSF itself
<dtm> jamest: you're too charitable
<dtm> there is obviously no point whatsoever.  it's not even hyperbole.  there is absolutely no grain of truth.  it's like saying the US has no GNP because MTV is boring.  or something.
<jamest> i'm bending over backwards trying to be fair, we've never had to resort to any form of ban, however I've also never recieved this many requests for me to do so
<chillywilly> jamest: does this mean you don't care if I request a ban? ;P
<jamest> nah chillywilly, i care about you
Action: dtm <3 chillywilly 
<dtm> you guys can't give a tyrant a shred of validation even in your natural quest to be charitable and neighborly.
<dtm> it's an admirable workaround attempt but not gonna work
<dtm> even if you sense that they have talent
<jamest> right now I sense that someone is trying to provoke us
<dtm> the good doesn't outweigh the bad, tragically
<jamest> and I expect complaints to the fsf to fall on deaf ears
<dtm> jamest: it has nothing to do with the FSF!
<jamest> last I knew they've started exploring using gnue interally to
<dtm> jamest: it has nothing to do with the FSF any more than with the irc admins or your ISP
<dtm> it's a behavioral dysfunction, nothing more
<dtm> there is no purpose, let alone grain of truth
<dtm> other than exactly what we're doing now.  feeding the troll.
<jamest> well, this is my last attempt at being reasonable
<dtm> k
<jamest> i promise that if we have another rant w/o usefull contributions then it's a kickban
Action: jamest hates this but the #s of requests i've got in last 24hrs 
<dtm> :/  k
Action: dtm h8
<jamest> hell, we didn't even kick chillywilly!
<dtm> !!!!
<jamest> oh wait, is he here?
<dtm> yeah, or me!
<jamest> :)
<jamest> exactly
<chillywilly> heheh
<dtm> that's waht i been thinkin in the last 2 days :/
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<jcater> morning all
<chillywilly> hi jc
<chillywilly> excitement is abound
<chillywilly> courtesy of our favorite heckler Fred_Frog 
<dtm> jcater: ahoy
Action: chillywilly cvs updates all his gnue vapourware
<dtm> chillywilly: well you be sure and delete all the completed projects first plz
<dtm> everyone around here *talks* about having true vaporware.  yeah those GNUers talk a good game.  but who's got the *real* vaporware?
<dtm> you people committing your halfass projects, all productive and stuff.  where are the missing files?  where is the lack of functionality?  I don't see it.
<dtm> what kind of a hollow joke of a misfit of a fake of a sham *is* this?!
<R45> I take is our four legged friend is still here :)
<jcater> Fred_Frog: the way I see it, at this point you have three options wrt GNUe:
<jcater> 1. Help us with the project. We will welcome any constructive help.
<jcater> 2. Decide you can do it better and either fork or start from scratch.  We will wish you luck (seriously!)
<jcater> 3. Continue down this self-destructive path. We will immediately kick-ban you.
<jcater> Just consider the ramifications of each choice:
<jcater> If you go with #1: GNUe is run by a handful of unpaid volunteers with an hour here and there. Progress is *by definition* slow.
<jcater> If you go with #2: You will join the ranks of several before you who have since realized:
<jcater>   a) it's next to impossible to find programmers willing to help write business software as it's not a very sexy/gratifying process
<jcater>   b) such software is inherently more complex than most realize and, as such, GNUe is thus much further along than they initially thought (I'm not aware of any such rewrites still in existence)
<jcater> If you go with #3: You are missing out on a great community; but after the past 3 days, you won't be missed.
<dtm> R45: yes, our low, slimy, filter feeding, eating-one's-own-young friend is here :)
<dtm> haha   just creating a visual, there.  no insult intended.  ;)
<dtm> ok it's borderline.  but if i'd said "target practice for adolescents with BB guns and bicycles" then that's a bit offensive.
<dtm> i wouldn't say that.
<jcater> that is offensive
<jcater> I'd use something much bigger than a BB gun'
<dtm> well, i had a little one but my buddy used a CO2 cartridge which is not unlike a 22 caliber, and he used a bowfishing rig to just impale em
<dtm> and then shoot em.
<dtm> the ones that weren't splintered up too bad, i'd take to my buddy's house and his mom would fry em.   >:-E
<dtm> i dont blow stuff up anymore.  well nothing living, definately.
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<dtm> dcmwai: hello
<dcmwai> hello dtm :)
<dtm> hihihihihi
<dcmwai> what bring you up here today :)
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<dtm> dcmwai: I think that not ever leaving is what keeps me here!  ;)
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<dtm> also....  it's all about the love of the game.
<jcater> moooo
<dtm> rowwrr
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<mdupont> peace 
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<dcmwai> ....
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<SachaS> dcmawai its late again ;)
<SachaS> 1.45 here
<SachaS> how about at your place?
<dcmwai> SachaS, same lah... 
<dcmwai>  :)
<dcmwai> SachaS, we don't have different unless there is a daylight effect on your site :)
<SachaS> we dont have daylight in Perth :)
<SachaS> daylight changes 
<SachaS> no daylight changes
<dcmwai> haha :)
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<SachaS> did you know, that in australia they have 1/2 hour time differences? thats very strange :)
<SachaS> like if you go there you have to turn time back (or forward) by 30 minutes
<SachaS> haha
<dcmwai> That happen to here as well
<dcmwai> Oh sorry.
<dcmwai> that don't happen here..
<SachaS> haha
<SachaS> ok
<dcmwai> but from what I know we are 1/2 hours later it should be for country on the same time line
<SachaS> lol
<jbailey> We have a half hour timezone in Canada.
<jbailey> There are many other places around the world that do it on weirder boundaries than that.
<jbailey> #        0:00       WET WEST WEMT Western Europe
<jbailey> #        0:19:32.13 AMT NST       Amsterdam, Netherlands Summer (1835-1937)*
<jbailey> #        0:20       NET NEST      Netherlands (1937-1940)*
<jbailey> #        1:00       CET CEST CEMT Central Europe
<jbailey> Hmm.  Those are all historical.
<SachaS> ok
<jbailey> #        2:00   WAST    West Africa Summer Time
<jbailey> #        2:30   BEAT    British East Africa Time (no longer used)
<jbailey> #        2:44:45 BEAUT  British East Africa Unified Time (no longer used)
<jbailey> #        3:00   CAST    Central Africa Summer Time (no longer used)
<jbailey> Reading the timezone datafiles is fascinating.
Action: jamest looks at jbailey
<SachaS> haha
<jamest> to each their own I guess
<SachaS> ok good night guys
<jamest> nite
<jamest> ;)
Nick change: SachaS -> SachaZzz
<jbailey> jamest: You program in JAva as a hobby.  Dont' call *me* weird.
<SachaZzz> lol
<jamest> sigh, true that
Action: jamest is a java whore, taking cash for java code
<jamest> now I feel cheap
<jbailey> Thinking of which, I should go back and finish studying my Java. =)
<wendall911> anybody here use cygwin before?
<jbailey> *sigh*
<jbailey> Exam is on Friday.
<jbailey> wendall911: Almost every day for like 4 years.
<jamest> wendall911: i installed it once but removed it
<jbailey> Some of my coworkers still use it who can't switch their desktops to Debian.
<wendall911> jbailey: cool, do you use explorer as your shell?
<jbailey> I've never heard of explorer.
<jbailey> I always use bash.
<wendall911> jbailey: i have a windows server that I use for testing apps under IIS, I loaded cygwin...used it a long time ago, It is pretty damn cool
<wendall911> jbailey: ok...one quick question, is there an ssh daemon?
<jbailey> Yes.
<wendall911> sweet
Action: wendall911 runs off to play with cygwin
<jbailey> Java time.
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<dcmwai> mdupont, Hello
<dcmwai> mdupont, morning.
<mdupont> hi dcmwai, chillywilly
<mdupont> whats up? how is life down in the southern hemisphere?
<dcmwai> mdupont, how is your rebuild of Datasource going nice and stady?
<mdupont> do you live in frear of terrorism?
<mdupont> it is going well
<mdupont> i have done a key analysis of the model
<mdupont> i have modeled the trickest part, the address db
<dcmwai> mdupont, How logn more do you think you will need to finished all that?
<dcmwai> s/logn/long
<mdupont> that is tricky because you need to accomidate many types of addresses
<mdupont> dcmwai: i have now a database model that is running
<mdupont> you can try it out yourself
<mdupont> and modify it
<mdupont> just tweaking the metamodel
<dcmwai> mdupont, really? :)
<mdupont> yes
<dcmwai> Just give me the URL :0
Action: dcmwai is trying to change aria-erp datasource to a better one :) like gnue compatible :)
<mdupont> cool
<mdupont> that is a good idea
<mdupont> maybe we you can specify a gnue generator 
<mdupont> that i can use
<dcmwai> mdupont, what?  gnue generato?
<mdupont> check out my introspector dcl-generator
<dcmwai> mdupont,  may I have the page again?
<mdupont> i need to find it
<mdupont> i dont have my mozilla running
<dcmwai> mdupont, nvm send me using AIM/ICQ later or even mail :)
<mdupont> yeah
<dcmwai> hum.. #gnuenterprise seem to have more people duing the time I sleep...
<mdupont> dcmwai: yeah
<mdupont> i thouth you were in malaysia
<mdupont> how silly
<dcmwai> mdupont, yes you are right.. I'm in Malaysia
<dcmwai> and this should the time I sleep but Im not...
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<bully> hi
<bully> mdupont: do you get my mail ?
<mdupont> yes just now
<mdupont> i have not read it yea
<mdupont> i had a computer configuration problem
<bully> oh
<mdupont> and was at the objectweb conference
<mdupont> i am really impressed what they are doing with java
<mdupont> very impressed
<mdupont> the object web consorsium has many impressive java middleware components
<mdupont> it would be great to be able to use the jdbc cach 
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<ajmitch_> ello people
<siesel> orning ajmitch
<btami> hi
<ajmitch_> how is everyone today?
<reinhard> bbl
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<ajmitch_> hi derek
<siesel> ajmitch: fine
Action: btami is sleepy, but have to work :(
<siesel> what, that late and on sunday?
Action: ajmitch_ is at university at the moment - monday morning here :(
<btami> siesel: i can work when family is silent
<siesel> yeah, I know that situation.
<siesel> so how old are your children?
<btami> 8 and 6
<btami> and yours?
<siesel> 1.5 and 3
<btami> siesel: where is from your intrset on chinese+programming?
<btami> it's not a usual pair
<btami> s/intrset/interest
<siesel> programming was always fun, and language and jiu-jitzu other hobbies, ...
<btami> wow, my 8 year old just started kiokushin karate :)
Action: btami just made folk dancing as sport
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<ajmitch_> hi mdupont
<mdupont> hi ajmitch, pleace come to the ä#introspector chat
<siesel> btami: it good when children do some sports :)
<btami> espacially when they decided to do that, not your parents
<siesel> wow.
<btami> this was our case, yes!
<btami> she wanted to go, period.
<chillywilly> hey ppl
<ajmitch_> hi chillywilly
<siesel> hi cw :)
<btami> hi cw
<siesel> btami: my 3y old is just doing climbing and running 
<btami> as usual :)
<chillywilly> my son si 6 for the record ;)
<chillywilly> s/si/is/ 
<btami> my son too(6), but he don't want to do any sports (yet)
<siesel> son is vomiting today :(
Action: ajmitch_ has no kids yet :)
<btami> siesel: i feel with you :(
<siesel> :)
<btami> ajmitch: start to make some :)
<siesel> buy "kinder suprise" ;)
<btami> lol
<btami> night all
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<dtm> wewph.
<ajmitch_> hmm
<ajmitch_> now I'm seeing a big batch of zimbabwe investment scams in the spam folder :)
<ajmitch_> just did list moderation for a list - out of 15 messages waiting, 5 were from 'sons of murdered Zimbabwean farmers'
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<siesel> wb reinhard
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<reinhard> night all
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<ajmitch_> hi jeff
<jbailey> Heya Andrew.
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<dtm> ajmitch_: dude that's tragic
<dtm> such a senseless waste of Zimbabwean citizenry
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<mfivis> whats the dealio
<dcmwai> jcater: you there?
<dcmwai> mfivis: is a bored python who is looking for some Python GUI design :)
<dcmwai> anyone have any jobs for him :)
<dcmwai> Vee: ?
<mfivis> nice.
<Vee> Vee not here
<dcmwai> Then who is Vee :)
<mfivis> what kind of distro man are you dcmwai
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<dcmwai> mfivis: RH 
<mfivis> mind lapse-, I forgot you were in fedora-devel
<dcmwai> :) but these guy are all Debian ... Heavily debian
Action: dcmwai point hands all around
<Vee> dcmwai has mad pointing skillz. 
<dcmwai> no really :)
<mfivis> it IS about midnight here. Would it be alright if I left my email address or does KDE 2.2 not have a readily accessible email client :)
<mfivis> *cough*
<dcmwai> mfivis: Mozilla... or thunderbird :)
<dcmwai> mfivis: Yes :)
<mfivis> alright.      I'm so antsy to get this 1800xp Fedora box up. I have to wait for the case from Newegg
<dcmwai> ok
<mfivis> eeneewah drop me a line michaelfivis@verizon.net
<dcmwai> Sure, someone will :)
<dcmwai> mfivis: what is yout expert fields of?
<dcmwai> python or...
<dcmwai> describe a bit here
<mfivis> intermediate python / 2D graphical work / web 
<dcmwai> That is Nice :) better then I do :)
Action: dcmwai is not the head here... jcater is :
<mfivis> acknowledged.
<dcmwai> so see you then mfivis :)
<dcmwai> SachaS: what are you doing now?
<dcmwai> working?
<SachaS> hi dcmwai.
<mfivis> alright good night. I'll be sure to come back and idle here
<SachaS> just finished some programming (last 1 weeks)
<SachaS> dcmwai: so i should get back to writing my thesis :(
<dcmwai> thesis? about what? about gnuenterprise ;)
<SachaS> dcmwai: i implemented something cool :)
<SachaS> thesis about "The ebXML CPA formation process"
<dcmwai> Or the The Evolution of Opensources to the Software makert?
<SachaS> its about how to get an agreement between two trading partners
<dcmwai> Wah.. that is something interesting :)
<SachaS> it is
<SachaS> :) very much so
Action: SachaS is excited
Action: dcmwai too
<SachaS> lol
<SachaS> i am having still a knot
<SachaS> knot = problem
<dcmwai> SachaS: what problem?
<ajmitch>  hi
<dcmwai> hello ajmitch :)
<SachaS> how to link a collaborative business process with an internal business process
<dcmwai> how is your phpgroupware
<SachaS> ebXML is all about collaborative business process
<SachaS> and collaborative is between trading partners
<dcmwai> yea...
<SachaS> so between two gnue systems, so to speak ;)
<dcmwai> correct.
<ajmitch> phpgroupware is going well :)
<SachaS> so there are internal business processes. probably comparable to advanced gnue application server procedures.
<SachaS> all my code is under GPL
<SachaS> :)
<SachaS> so thats cool
<SachaS> so in theory my code can help to run collaborative business processes
<dcmwai> SachaS: what is your internal business processes meant really...
<SachaS> ok dcmwai
<SachaS> so for example the collaborative business process is to make a purchase order
<SachaS> so my tool gets that message from the collaborative process
<dcmwai> ok
<SachaS> then gnue has some procedure how to process a purchase order
<SachaS> so my tool has to forward the purchase order request to the gnue system and trigger the start of the "gnue" purchase order
<SachaS> then when the gnue system has processed the purchase order the gnue system might create/generate an invoice.
<dcmwai> ya...
<SachaS> and the gnue system then sends the invoice to my tool again and my tool sends the invoice to the other party
<SachaS> ;)
Action: dcmwai think something is .... wrong somewhere...
<SachaS> please tell me what you think dcmwai.
<dcmwai> and the gnue system then sends the invoice to my tool again and my tool sends the invoice to the other party ?? Why this is happening?
<dcmwai> [13:24:08]<SachaS> then when the gnue system has processed the purchase order the gnue system might create/generate an invoice. the process should end here....
<SachaS> party a (has gnue) <----> party a ebxml (my tool) <------> party b ebxml <-----> party b gnue
<dcmwai> the invoice is generated...
<dcmwai> Wah...
<ajmitch> that looks like a lot of layers
<SachaS> thats where b2b is heading too
<SachaS> thats where b2b is heading to
<dcmwai> SachaS: My think would be Party A <-----ebxml (your tool ---->Party B
<dcmwai> is that right?
<SachaS> dcmwai each party has a ebxml tool
<dcmwai> oop...
<SachaS> and the ebxml tool talk to each other
<dcmwai> ok
<dcmwai> Now I see
<SachaS> dcmwai do you have big boradband or dialup?
<dcmwai> Big broadbadn :) 384k
<SachaS> you lucky :)
Action: dcmwai consider that small :)
<SachaS> http://www.schlegel.li/ebXML/plug_presentation/html/index.html 
Action: dcmwai want 2MB up and down
<SachaS> this is a presentation I gave to the local linux user group
<dcmwai> how big is that?
<SachaS> it introduces what I do
<SachaS> its a presentation (html export of openoffice)
<dcmwai> haha :) I think it will be page by page?
<SachaS> yeah the first page shows all pages in lower resolution (but still huge for small broadband)
<SachaS> http://www.schlegel.li/ebXML/plug_presentation/index.html
<SachaS> is for low bandwidth
<SachaS> check out the first page and you see what is good for you ...
<SachaS> so i am interested in how gnue will do procedures ...
<SachaS> and with siesel ;) (dcmwai we will have to share siesel) I plan to do something for ebxml <----> gnue, maybe in february next year
<dcmwai> SachaS: hehe no problem... :)
<dcmwai> maybe my aria-erp with gnue-rpoert can use/share some of the idea of your ebxml :)
--- Mon Nov 24 2003