derek: i'm interested in evaluating the project and contributing to direction derek: i have a lot of immediate priorities, a lot more ideas in the air, and i'll focus if engineers are focused so is anyone actively working on appserver right now? derek: the only printing i'm involved in is direct mail, so far postcards siesel and reinhard mainly siesel and reinhard have been pretty active lately megatux: yes anyone ever look at teh REST arhcitecture ;P? architecture fuck I am tired chillywilly: sounds like you need some REST Action: Vee puts a sleep spell on chillywilly and so do i damn skippy :) dtm: :) http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/02/06/rest.html Action: dtm submits a REST command @ chillywilly Vee: aloha Vee http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/02/20/rest.html REST uses HTTP ;) dtm: hugs <3 dtm: are you mooning me? nosir i would never do such a thing that's a SMB2 power-up heart it's bacially a new take on how "web services" should be done....and alos explains how the web really works just checking REpresentational State Transfer yes chillywilly has been enlightened by REST and so should you all else be destroyed the choice is yours hah does interchange use REST? Action: chillywilly needs to play with webware some more Vee: i've never heard of REST in relation to IC ok.. I digress.. I'm going to bury myself in productive activities for at least 5 minutes.. and not a minute less! i.e., HTTP got it right by having afew methods (GET, POST, PUT, DELETE) and many nouns (URIs) instead of the SOAP where everyone defines their won stinking methods SOAP/RPC chillywilly: fascinating. i love it when technology mirrors sociology or psychology or whatever s/won/own/ Action: brolewis wonders how technology mirrors psychology... (in this case) brolewis: sounds like linguistics Vee: I don't think interchange is REST-like at least, when they consider such things in the design ah that's cool, then. well actually I am not sure ... because it lends to a flow and all kinds of orthogonal layers Action: dcmwai is awake ... actually it may be...or you can strcuture your IC app in a RESTful manner pretty easily Action: dcmwai see people busy talking :) it's basically recognizing that the web is all about resource manipulation via HTTP methods...the thing still left to define is the xml formats to use for various things Action: megatux has been interested in web services lately Action: brolewis has *tried* to be interested in web services lately so instead of having some xmlrpc srver you'd have some namespace of resources to be manipulated and the data could be repsented in xml or html... then you could also have another URI/web client that calls this and maintains the app state the appserver is globally accessable and opaque via URIs and maintains resource state the client would maintain app state the client could also be something liek GNUe Forms too another way I look at REST style architecture is you are in a sense exposing some representation of your data model w/ a set interface HTTP methods chillywilly: in your view, is it proper to seperate clients from an app server using web services? interface; ie.) where in the past people may have used corba Action: dcmwai read log corba is not restful though....the power of the web is resources w/ a simple api HTTP GET, POST, PUT, DELETE oh momma gdesklets are CRACK heheh wtf are gdesklets? good crack or bad crak? derek: is that good? :) Action: chillywilly plsyed w/ Gnoem 2.4 the other day but then went back to KDE ;) Gnome even played bah typing sucks when is my computer going to read my mind? and output the thoughts for me ;) Action: brolewis is working on it damnit ;) gdesklets.gnomedesktop.org megatux: I still think it makes sense to have clients and servers ;) yeah, just another clone of a clone ;) http://www.xfront.com/REST-Web-Services.html gdesklets=old news ;) that might be more digestable than the xml.com articles cause those are like 4 pages each ajmitch: herrew ajmitch: X inside X type thing? chillywilly: huh? nm Action: ajmitch tries to connect the conversation with that statement derek didn't ptu a proper URL in so I was lazy and didn't bother to load the page ;) Action: brolewis has given up :) chillywilly: the naysaying pundits have always complained about the statelessness of "the web", meaning how http doesn't magically keep track of all resources as if there's some global object model of the internet. i've always thought that http was merely for transport and basic session management, and that what they wanted was mad metadata. probably xml related stuff. gdesklets came about a few months after karamba, which was a clone of mac & some windows software chillywilly: some people just really like to look at global infrastructure that altered the course of human civilization, and nitpick it. as if http, and hence "the web", are a disgrace dtm: well the REST people say that you're manipulating resources and hence get snapshots of said state when you POST you can get a link to the new state POST is basically "add a new resource as a subordinate to this URI" neat chillywilly: Dude. You're so deep. :} PUT is "manipulate a known resource" chillywilly: i like it when you get on to trains of thought like that look at freak dbs i have learned much from the chillywilly in the last 2 months freakin' Action: dtm looks at freakin' dbs SELECT, UPDATE, INSERT, DELETE simple interface ;) file system read, write, delete, modify or whatever yet the file system metaphor and rdms are pretty felixble and allow you to store and manipulate all sorts of differnt types in a more or less opaque manner also URIs and REST architecture does not prevent you fron using all these crazy OO apis internally w/ rich semantics and methods that describe the problem domain also urmom chillywilly: so how do you map from OO internals to web services to something on the client end? sup nickr ? Action: chillywilly is talking crazy Action: chillywilly blames lack of sleep ;) megatux: ever look at servlets? (werbware servlets or even *shudder* java) ;P chillywilly: I've been studying J2EE lately zope lets you publish objects via URIs too Zope chillywilly: haven't gotten to servlets yet ok welll... http://webware.sourceforge.net/Papers/IntroToWebware.html grsnted they have a Session object which is kinda a REST no no granted but you don't have to use it anywho how does this all apply yo ERP ;) t/yo/to/ Zope is more focused on being the end of the chain, no? The focus is on web pages. I think we need to concentrate on data modeling and various representations of these models (xml document? rdf crap? etc) and expose these rresources in a RESTful matter to lower B2C and B2B integration/collaboration barriers screw definfin apis...we have an api...HTTP! (WebDAV?) ;P defining say one org defines one API then another rolls their own too they don't ever talk to each other then all of a sudden they wann intergrate their systems you essentially have to map these apis can be a PIAT PITA even (pain in the ass) pain in a tush? ja Action: brolewis laughs at dtm neat Action: dtm laughs at brolewis, verbalizing his laugh ok, so you publish all these stateless objects.. how do you link them all together, manage security, transactions, logging, concurrency, priority queues, etc. anyway, if they would define their resources in a RESTful manner then the shift is to collaborate only on document (PO, WO, Invoice) format (some xml format) also, there is this --> http://www.lowqualitycomics.com/video/moSMB3.wmv be amazed, mystified.... STUPIFIED didn't work... :( well HTTP doesn't cover everything and some of those things go away...one of the big thing that they started defining an HTTP extension for is asynchronous methods megatux: how do you link any resources on the web? ;) with a URI chillywilly: the web doesn't have business logic though security: HTTP Authentication although this needs to be a bit better http://home.megapass.co.kr/~kys706700/moSMB3.wmv <--- fj333r the browsers are retarded and do not show the content sent so you can't make better looking forms you get the ugly dialog see if you can guess how that movie was made megatux: the business logic happens in teh background...like in your servlet ;) although i hope we dont slashdot-effect it :} someon (~some1@h24-108-251-81.gv.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: derek runs off to do his studies for the day or some stuff can be in the client too granted I am just bouncing idead here off people anyway ;) megatux: what do you mean by "the web"? ideas chillywilly: see, I don't believe that any logic or appliation state should be in the client. dtm: did you just record a game of SMB3? brolewis: no, why would you ask that? dtm: html pages, vs. 'web services' I'm watching a rather interesting WMV... ;) dtm: I think that's "the web" he was referring to doesn't have to be html though megatux: nobody's mentioned html pages here can be come xml dialect some bah yeah.. also, a web app can have statefulness at least for caching. like for rapid data entry and lookup HTTP is my interface to URIs (resources) read-ahead caching and write-through caching yea, stuff is cached that's another plus dtm: you have played WAY to much SMB3... basically i consider "the web" to mean an http-related transport and a markup-based UI, running in a platform independant thinnish client brolewis: what now? brolewis: what makes you say that dtm: that's what I was getting at dtm: the fact that it looks like you beat the whole game in 11 minutes? brolewis: ME!? brolewis: who? what? brolewis: whoever recorded this video did brolewis: you think I'm the japanese guy who made a humanly impossible video of SMB3, published to a korean server? brolewis: sad thing is, I can remember beating the game that way megatux: I was reading about some xml/rdf thing where you can provide hint to which links to follow in an xml document megatux: what's sad about it? mind is fuzzy right now and I need to learn some RDF ;) chillywilly: go get em dtm: you could be... ;) brolewis: oh really? :) check out that whole semantic web thing I keep hearing about Action: brolewis notes that I have SMB3 on my comptuter and love to play on my emulater dtm: because after I beat it the easy way, I went through every single board worlds 1-8 (: brolewis: right on one cool thing is the RDF people are also python people ;) megatux: and that's sad? that's happy! hehe megatux: it's beautiful magical living art halfway located inside YOUR MIND and half in the machine ok, so how many of yall thought SMB2 was just STRANGE? Action: megatux recalls the days of bliss playing SMB3 and not having to worry about competing web services standards brolewis: super mario?> yes SMB2 was not even a supoer mario game was some funky japanese game that movie was made with an emulator played at 1/30th speed, and heavily edited based on virtual machine checkpoints that they redid and released as SMB2 chillywilly: Doki Doki Panic! Dr. *&^8uykjhk sorry I can't recall teh Japanese name the chillywilly: well that's too bad i guess we'll never know this is why it was nothing like any of the other mario bros. games it wasn't really SMB afaik ;P correct, but it allowed SMB to go places yet undreamt yeah, it was some dude in a turban, not mario which is more sad. that someone beat the game in 11 minutes or tht I'm actually watching it... brolewis: for all definitions of "sad" which equate to "ecstatically happy and wonderful", i'd say both LOL I'll accept that that's the cliched geek definition of "sad", depending on context jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) I can handle that :) noted is mountain dew an acceptable substitute for sleep? did anyone watch any of the VGA award on SpikeTV? chillywilly: yes YES! :-D man, I discovered this columbian coffee yesterday. Talk about a caffinee buzz! :) chillywilly: for all definitions of "acceptable" that equate to "shortened lifespan and altered quality of remaining life", yes ;] wheeeee dimas (~dimas@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. dtm: hah while I could talk about SMB3 and caffinee highs all night, I have work to do for tomorrow, so I bow out. Until another time chillywilly: i dont actually know what it does to ya :) brolewis: l8r cya brolewis dtm: the calories and sugar make me fat..ter brolewis (~Lewis@cs24243191-67.hot.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise. Action: dtm sends miniature chillywilly's and dtm's and ajmitch's into brolewis's dreams so he can wake up alarmed, yet refreshed and soothed that it was all a dream Action: dtm throws turnips and onions at brolewis, and chases brolewis on a magic carpet, in this dream hahaha Action: dtm casts chillywilly as SON OF CLAWGRIP Action: ajmitch books dtm into a mental hospital Action: dtm imagines derek in a mushroom-shaped turban and parachute pants rofl :-o dude he would so look genie like if he was wearing a turban ok i'll be Luigi, chillywilly is mario, derek is Toad, and ajmitch is Princess Toadstool chillywilly: yeh with those MONSTER CHOPS hehehe askldjfalkjdf;lsd;ja i wonder if mushroom retainers are allowed access to the MONSTER CHOPS lallalalalala i dont even whatn to know what the conversation is about :) Be glad of that derek: the important thing to know is do you still have your MONSTER CHOPS or merely CHOPS that'll do I'm sorry derek, but your GNUe is in another castle! derek: we luv you man nickr: lol :-o nickr: pwn3d :-/ i'm gonna hafta make a custom 404 someday for smuckola.org that has that monster chops? people will be 404ing over there all day. i'll hafta akamaize my 404. "I'm sorry surfer, but your webpage is in another castle!" Sorry weary traveler, but your website is at another URL. derek: yeah the killer sideburns Action: derek has to go re dock this thting before i lose all power um they are long but not very thick right now derek: imminently pheerable. as i shave my head now a days yeah now that'll work although the mushroom turban conceals a lot so they get shaved to same length oh dudes speaking of 404 pages that stands to reason unless you're a 17th century european aristocrat i proably look closest to steve austin (stonecold) from the WWF or whatever go to gooogle and type in wmd and hit "feeling lucky" ;P derek: oh you've always been stone cold derek: hey i just got in contact with my local pastors again for the first time in about 8 yrs, here in Salina. i intend to help organize the youth dept. and that's the bottom linke, cause stone cold says so line : Action: derek urns to bed er runs even you made his jaq drop off jaw h0h0 Q: When is 0.5.3 going to come out? And please... none of this "When it's ready" stuff URNs Action: dtm shoves Masta Toad down a clay urn, to his subterranian bed uuuuh, when the masta is done beating the coders? (in the desert) someon: and what exactly makes you think there's another correct answer? :) someon: Sometime Soon (tm) someon: i'd like to know exactly what kind of question that is for a volunteer community (and please none of this "because I want it" stuff) :) maybe he just wanted a rough guestimate yeah it's whenever chillywilly feels like it jcater would probably have a "general" idea but nothing you can hold him to ;) Nah, not because I want it... but because I'm too useless to be able to figure out how to use a CVS on my machine :) someon: :-o HEH someon: then how were you planning on using gnue? :) i guess as long as someone else publishes a cvs snapshot tarball, we got another user! dtm: I'd like to replace some existing (Non-free;commercial - too expensive) software with it ok well good luck with all that, as i shall now expire I've been keeping an eye on GNUe since 0.4.3 and actually had two-tier running for a while, but I'm really interested in AppServer someon: neato mosquito stick with it dtm: cool dude erm taht was for someon that dtm: but you're still cool anyway ;P chillywilly: I talked to you long ago about it... I'd love to see table widgets on the search responses, but being that I don't code, I can't ask for it. Action: someon believes if you can't code it yourself, don't ask for it. ask anyway? ;) I sent a screenshot of what the commercial softare does for search results to one of the main guys developing GNUe, but they couldn't understand what I was trying to show them hmmm who? Jason? someon: I think I remember you now Can't remember. Was a long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away Action: chillywilly hears the *epic* Star Wars theme wtf is the next Star Wars coming out anyway? Donno Never sheesh ;) seems like never George Lucas is too busy masturbating to pictures of himself :-o I feel a certain sense of hostility toward George Lucas... erm, that didn't come out right oh well some general thoughts: GNUe has the potential to become one of the major OSS 'killer apps' for a lot of 'real-world' business stuff. There're a lot of good ideas, but there's a ton of work to be done. I wonder if we could drum up any sort of funding to allow people to work full time and make this happen sooner than later. Thoughts? dude I still love the scene in the last movie where you is doing the light saber fight well we were on LinuxFund and despite getting the most votes we received no cash Here's another thought.... How about we get some up-to-date screenshots of what GNUe Forms can do... The ones on the site now are 20020215! Ouch ... that's no good 00:54 < chillywilly> dude I still love the scene in the last movie where you is doing the light saber fight I meant yoda not you bleh maybe I should go to bed no, no you were right the first time I was in it I am going to have to eat again soon nickr: oh yea! DUH! I was the sith guy, lord dumbshit you had trouble disengaging your light saber? and cut off your own hand? chillywilly: I'm thinking some sort of 'feature adoption' thing megatux: 'feature adoption'? someon: people pool money for features they want typically this would only work later on however Ahh... I get it... Adopt the feature you would like to see in the program... either pay to have your own coder add it (and submit the modifications back to GNUe) or pay a GNUe coder to add it pretty much Once GNUe is at some sort of '1.0' state, it would also be possible for consultants to use it to meet real needs while contributing back. Nods. The hard part is getting to that 1.0 state 1.0 is a moving target... that too Action: chillywilly has as ham and cheese loaf sandwhich w/ mustard I personally am interested in the app server because I'd rather not reinvent any wheels for my own project. But rather help finish building the wheel already started. (: it's supposed to be round :P it's what is penGNUins do Action: megatux gets out his rock chisel or somethin' mainly I just eat, shit and waddle around erm...but that's besides the point ;) haha If I could figure out how to code, how to do CVS, and so on, I could actually work on some of this stuff... you have a gnu/linux box with cvs installed? I know how to code and use CVS. I just need to learn Python class LearPython: What version of CVS is current? if isinstance(megatux, penGNUin): bleh someon: cvs is simple someon: beats me ;) I use whatever is in Debian sid actually I prefer subversion to cvs ;P Then Yeah, I think I meet the requirements to actually get the CVS versions of GNUe and GNU Arch is just too pooly documented to use ;) the other 2 have whole books written about them Action: someon doesn't have subversion, so would have to make do with CVS GNUe isnt hosted in subversion ;P it is host *on* subversion (.gnu.org) ;P bah Action: chillywilly disciplines himself :-o that sounds sick I need help dtm: help me! Action: dcmwai give "help" to chillywilly.... yaaay ok Now chillywilly have "help" Action: someon would still need to learn to code thanks man someon: erm... http://www.python.org/topics/learn/ try that bah one of those should be a beginner's thing Action: chillywilly looks Action: dcmwai have a book on python... but don't have times to read it YET :"( has anyone ever done any kinda performance analysis of python? python is the way of the dark side compared to say.. obj-c? ajmitch: blasphemy! someon: http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/ mayeb try that one ;) maybe chillywilly: That's for the refactoring... GNUe Version 2.0 what is? Action: chillywilly is lost erm.. sorry... that should have been for megatux ok, that makes more sense ;) hi chillywilly, megatux, chillywilly dcmwai: hi Nick change: GNUPredator -> mdupont sup dewd? dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. :) derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning all someon (~some1@h24-108-251-81.gv.shawcable.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" Morning... ahh these are the two guys i confuse btami: and dcmwai i keep on confusing your names :( mdupont: hey ... you shouldn't :) one is dcmwai and one is btami :) I think we are much different :) only 3 chracter is same (a, m, i) yeah now, i know thierry (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) left irc: Connection timed out thierry (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) joined #gnuenterprise. megatux (~chrisg@22.pchl5.xdsl.nauticom.net) left irc: "leaving" thierry (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) left irc: "Client exiting" thierry (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) joined #gnuenterprise. morning SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-106.wasp.net.au) left #gnuenterprise ("Client exiting"). btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.63) left irc: "Client exiting" bbl reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it." thierry (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) got netsplit. thierry (~thierry@musashi.xtensive.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-92-214.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: gsoti_away -> gsoti 'morning SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-106.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: SachaS -> SachaAway SachaAway (~Sacha@dialup-196-106.wasp.net.au) left irc: "Client exiting" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-106.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: gsoti -> gsoti_away gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-92-214.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-69.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all. hey HI Action: siesel hugs Vee and chillywilly Action: dneighbo wonders about siesel Nick change: dneighbo -> derek ;) siesel: you read the backlog? see the error that megatux was having? derek: the soul of Vee came over me ;) Action: siesel is reading backlog again it's outside the realms of my scrollback or I'd just paste it ok, found it. its in yesterdays log. This error is fixed in cvs. ah, ok.. But he can solve it by passing full username and password parameters on the commandline or in the connection.conf file. got to go offline see yas have a nice weekend you too :) SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-106.wasp.net.au) left irc: Remote closed the connection Nick change: mdupont -> md-afk jbailey (~jbailey@199.212.225.1) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey: wassup how many vegan donuts would it take to get newest dcl debs? backports of gnue-* packages to woody and good holiday cheer? siesel_ (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-69.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel_ (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-69.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: "Bye Bye" siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-69.netcologne.de) left irc: "work" ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-163-189.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. derek: Not that many - someone has already provided me the patches and offered to take over the package. I'll likely give it to him, since it doesn't fit well within the rest oft he GNUe suite. I had been holding on to it originally on the hopes that it would synchronise its release cycles and technology with forms, designer, appserver, etc. mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@209.234.155.2) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~user@mail.actron.com) joined #gnuenterprise. erchache2000 (~aaa@150.214.136.250) joined #gnuenterprise. hello everybody... i'm triying to install gnu enterprise in my linux box and i want to know if dclgw is a graphic web interface for gnue or what erchache2000: http://dcl.sf.net read that ok erchache2000: it's a project management and helpdesk management app it exists within the overall gnue framework i mean, the gnue metaproject not the software framework per se ok but you speak me on other language and i arrive very soon here...i was using arias but i want to use gnue better erchache2000: dcl is not currently using the GNU Enterprise framework it is a php application ok i see though we are in process of converting it and we (er i) use gnue-reports against it quite a bit is the module for erp workshop no? eventually the idea was to port it to the GNU Enterprise architecture Action: derek has to run to lunch im newbie on erp linux systems and i want to know to use and develop it for this reason i use arias and now gnue but gnue hasnt a good documentation to start to work....a newbie than me is very difficult to run it indee and my fucked english is other problem....i'm spanish :P wendall911 (~wendallc@torus.nidaho.net) joined #gnuenterprise. oh shit is so modular than i need to make many things to install it correctly if i can do it :P ajmitch: You awake? oh shit more read more difficult arrrggghh erchache2000: good luck ja i need anything else that luck i need the source of power my little padawan jeje :) the power of their source, the crystal jaja i have the egg of erp software what doesnt run shit oh no....i wait for more development for this project its so soon to use it in a production status someon (~some1@h24-108-251-81.gv.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. arrrgghhh i hate gnu enterprise i left bye erchache2000 (~aaa@150.214.136.250) left #gnuenterprise ("Terminando cliente"). OK... so if they hate GNUe then why were they here in the first place? morning siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-69.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. btw. how can you set yourselfs password in postgresql? morning ajmitch marcello (~marcello@adsl-ull-248-205.42-151.net24.it) joined #gnuenterprise. Anyone else been having lots of dns name lookup problems lately? nope dsmith: you mean.... in the whole world? if it's not on international news, then probably not! What name were you looking up? Oh, lots. Just in general. I'd check your local DNS then.... Mine seems to be working fine Hit a url again, and it's there. Weird! Unfortunately, I am not in a position to mess with that here. I might just install a local caching server on my box. sounds reasonable ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hummm i liked the quote siesel: alter user username with password 'mypazzwerd' i have the egg of erp software what doesnt run ToyMan: wassup Action: jamest slinks off about for more uzah-abuse jamest: hi hey derek s/about// haven't checked in here for a lonnngg while for him not to know english his cursing seemed to be pretty good agreed jamest: thx. ToyMan: you still using access? marcello (~marcello@adsl-ull-248-205.42-151.net24.it) left irc: "Leaving" siesel_ (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-69.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel_ (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-69.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) derek: the result isn't very beautiful, but could still be useful: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/open_tickets/ jcater: I did some steps to the ticket generation (although it is no cron jobed) /ticket gen.../ticket report gen.../ jan: you are part of the www-users group so you can put stuff in /var/www at least you should be able to the reports are nice, btw jcater: do you speak a foreign language? cursing is generally the first you learn ;-) no but I do know sign language and I guess cursing was one of the early things I learned there :) /msg siesel but I think you should hard-code the "Responsible" to be derek :-. Action: jcater thwaps dtm it was funny you know it was i do, but then i'd also like the tickets to actually get done..... ...is the thing. :-o lol jcater: I planned to wait for subversion to get online again before moving everything into /var/www but why not do it now :) ok, open tickets are now at: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/tickets/ btami (~tamas@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel: wow siesel: is this the start of the integration of our "BUGS" file with dcl? hi all yes hi btami reinhard: now we just have to wait for subversion until we can update cvs. although the formating of the text output is not perfect, but its better than no dcl/BUGS intergration IMHO the generation of the "BUGS" file should be automated somehow o or hmmm... we should even replace the BUGS file with "For known bugs please refer to http://...." but then again we would want to have the status of the bugs archived for the point in time we do a release Why not update the BUGS file as frequently as the TODO/Featurelist files? i.e. every time doing a release? yes i think that would be best just the direction is the other TODO: from Textfile to web BUGS: from web to textfile but agree on doing it for release ok, then I add the BUGS download and replacement part into the release script. i guess it's not possible to have http://www.gnuenterprise.org/tickets/appserver.html contain links to the actual tickets? siesel: yes, cool siesel: you are talking about the "postweb" script, yes? yes. ok excellent :) even if the name doesn't totaly fit the changes :) :) *much* better! Action: dsmith just installed dnscache someon (~some1@h24-108-251-81.gv.shawcable.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" btami (~tamas@ngprs.pannongsm.hu) left irc: "Leaving" megatux (~chrisg@22.pchl5.xdsl.nauticom.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~user@mail.actron.com) left irc: "Home home Home!" how broke is cvs? am i better off to grab cvs or 0.5.2 probably want to grab 0.5.2 reinhard_ (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. mouns (mouns@kali.mouns.org) left irc: Remote closed the connection night all reinhard_ (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Client Quit reinhard (~reinhard@M1264P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) Nick change: md-afk -> mdupont chillywilly: you there? yea been reading into REST style.. it seems to me that this works well for some things, but terribly for others As I see it, there is a fundamental security flaw: HTTP has auth stuff URI's give away information about business transactions you have ACLs basically you can control GET, PUT, POST, and DELET access to resoures this works well enough for UNIX Even if the content is secure, a third party can get an idea what is going on Eventually, they can even map out your URI's to real data yea, but they would be a business partner....you're sharing resources anyway that's a weak argument ;) ok, but two things: 1.) business partner does not necessarily mean full trust afaict REST makes the URI the "smart" agent and not some unknown software component on the other side 2.) public networks can be sniffed https? you don't have to expose all resources yes, but even with https, the URI is plaintext you can expose say your catalog so they can resell your oproduct through their website etc. that's fine for ecommerce that's one example it's not when it's sharing confidential data about clients / products / etc. but I don't have to open up my financial records to these people the content can be xml over https certainly.. and that part is fine yea the information (representation) itself is valuable but what do you loose witha standardized format for say contacts, customer info, etc. What if a snooper sees a bunch of traffic with http://yourcompany/client/001/product/abc/* Even if the content is secure, a third party can get an idea what is going on yes exactly.. which is why REST doesn't work everyone can use the same formats but surely everyone is not going to share all resources with the whole www ;) unless you have a secure transport, no? mdupont: even with https, the URI is plaintext https is secure though dude good point URIs are opaque you can see if they are buying or selling yep or what type of transaction is going you could see that the ceo hit sell a whole lot eventually, the snooper can say "aha! client "001" is actual "Bob's Widgets" and get him for insider trading it's not very likely for people to be able to grokk a whole lot just form the URI from megatux: the you need a secure rest that just passes no parameter in the uri and hides the uri into a resource identifier in an rdf package in the content then you could even pass a set of uris describing each reasource individually in a rest like manner that would be a standard header that could even theorectically pasted into one uri and sent as cleartext if you turn an option on it could be transparent to the user and the server programmer not sure that I follow.. well that is one weakness I guess that all HTTP accesses are logged hmmm megatux: lets say megatux sells chillywilly 100 widgets? http://foo.bar.biz/sell?seller=megatux.org&buyer=chillywilly&what=widgets&amount=100 afaict mdupont is saying pass an rdf document now we dont want that seen so http://foo.bar.biz/secure so they can infer using the semantics where teh actual resources are and the header has a document like am I right mdupont ? a level of indirection { sell megatux, buy chilly, what widget, amount 100 } a selll. yes one level of indirection can be transpart to the user just set the secure bit there are certain resources that we make public anyway like a prodcuts catalog co,pany contact info etc. company jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise ("Client exiting"). someone could possily infer enough about a web site to screen scrape it, set the price higher then make requests to that site...hence becoming some kinda reseller w/o that company even knowing ;P and making a profit maybe ;P but that's a lot of work I'm sure it's been done (: and who says people would buy it from you at that higher price ;) but regardless, I'm talking non-public info yea, I know chillywilly: that is called ebay hehe mdupont: :) :) uh oh.. dinner ready (: megatux: on a few web apps we have developed we let the customer store various CC numbers that they want to use, etc. so I know exactly what you're talking about you don't want anybody to be able to infer what that information could be also b2b stuff you mainly want private yep I dunno if using an RPC like thing helps you any though people argue it is less secure cause you're like tunneling one protocol over another you're abusing port 80 yes, as using RPC everything is done with one message type instead of four in a sense.. but ultimately you have to trust the business logic but if you use SOAP you have the URI problem too. resources can be cache too via http so that's probably not good either cached however they also argue that you cannot easily restrict what people are doing if you us esome hidden soap thing you can't turning caching off...the proxy have to be SOAP savy has* savvy (sp?) back in a few jamest (~jamest@ppp-66-142-210-95.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest. ToyMan (~stuq@user-0cevdks.cable.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. the man, the legend the little mongoloid albino surfer boy who could. bingo THE PRIDE OF THE KONZA I think those were just pink contact lenses. actually i've just got naturally bloodshot eyes I thought it was from seeing red from the usahs jcater: you have time (or jamest) jadeisfalling (~jmeskill@209.234.155.2) joined #gnuenterprise. um trying to do a form with lots of master/detail/master/detail/master/detail not sure but ask with mysql it worked really well until we added like the 5th table getting two odd errors one is that it is trying to join 1=0 but more disconcerting is it is doing ,SOMECOLUMN,SOMECOLUMN2, somecolumn WHERE it is weird that it statrts with a "," can I see the form? and even more strange that somecolumn is thre in lower case as NO WHERE in the form is somecolumn listed in lowercase posting form now while we are waiting... what would your thoughts be about porting designer to gtk2? if you didnt have to do the work heh now that there is good gtk2 installer for windows I'm not sure if I'd be happy or not there is no gtk2 for macos Action: jcater would have to think about that and what about OS/2?! no wxwindows either technically for macos? yeah there is yeah its there but it doesnt work :) well, maybe no wxpython Action: jcater uses wxwindows for mac but not wxpython (yet) well chew on it some i am afraid we are hitting wx limitations but it tastes bitter! yes and qt unfortunately has freedom problems but but its not a today decision, its more of a what are your thoughts question I'm quickly learning all toolkits have their limitations just different ones :) what, you guys don't want to maintain wxwindows?! form is at http://www.gnue.org/~jmeskill/test2.gfd I hit some qt3 limitations when doing the qt driver for forms and i suppose tcl/tk is right out, huh? jamest: told me swing has NO limitations and youare LAME for not using java (which, incidentally, is why I didn't finish it :-/ ) Action: jadeisfalling doesn't want a ride on the swing... i have a friend who wanted the ultimate UI toolkit for portability, yet integration with local services such as object models and drag-n-drop, and he's working on tcl/tk http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/misc/java-forms.png my old version of forms he's got most of it implemented after the last 3 or so years, and is debating on open srcing it using java swing GPL :-0 do you guys want to talk about that? it all works, and has been commercially deployed derek: dtsPickitems has no masterlink Action: jcater guesses that might be causing the ,, part Action: jcater makes a note to add error checking for that Action: jadeisfalling is dumb i forgot to save after I added the master link jade? yeah we have a faulty interface between the chair and the keyboard here jade?!?! is anyone interested in what I just said? jamest: whats up! long time no... err... see we are working on replacing him^H^H^H it dtm: i fear tk oic did 1 app with tcl/tk, C, swig jcater: you can send the bill to john@libertydistribution.com quickly became messy unlike the pure gnue code no messes in there nope :) dtm: i'm sure we wouldn't mind seeing it for ideas at the very least but licensing is a big issue jamest: now there's a cheeky chap jcater: thanks for spotting my stupidity :) or some shit I have to run to dinner... bbiab jamest: duly noted jamest: i completely understand I AM ONE WITH THE VISION jcater: hey that screenshot looks pretty show 'em the code that built it jcater! it's um, well, it's um....look a pony Action: jamest sneaks out of the room they were cfd files cater's fscked definition i can't find a sample actually there is one in that directory http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/misc/ the layout file lol sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client exiting" jbailey (~jbailey@199.212.225.1) left irc: "Client exiting" derek (~dneighbo@209.234.155.2) left irc: "Bye Bye" jadeisfalling (~jmeskill@209.234.155.2) left irc: "see ya" someon (~some1@h24-108-251-81.gv.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: yes, it was fscked and it wasn't even like our .gfd files =) in that my "form" files actually were templates/macros to create an actual java application generated JAVA! java! all I can say guava whoops, your dirty little secret is out was that was 4 years ago you were young and naive you needed the money of course, a year later, I hooked up with GNUe so I'm a slow learner as you can tell and it's all down hill from there brolewis (~lewis@cs24243191-67.hot.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. brolewis (~lewis@cs24243191-67.hot.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise. jade was here?!? WOW hmm you don't get that excited when I show up :( jcater!!!!?!?!?!?!!!! WOWOWOWOWOOWWOWOOWWW! HI JASON!!!! is that better ;)? yes much better HI JASON who's jade what's he doing one of the original gnue'rs iirc buddy of derek yea, jade was here...in the beginning... I even remember him being on irc ;P http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/05/2021209 anyone see that? yeah I like this comment... It could have been worse. SCO could have been represented by Darl's other brother Darl. HEHE hhee IN reality, SCO will produce something, no matter how B.S. it is. But it'd be super cool for them to produce nothing and have the judge fine them, and then KICK THEM IN THE NUTS. Yeah, that'd be sweet. IN reality, SCO will produce something, no matter how B.S. it is. But it'd be super cool for them to produce nothing and have the judge fine them, and then KICK THEM IN THE NUTS. Yeah, that'd be sweet. woops double paste and then KICK THEM IN THE NUTS Come on now, this isn't Australia. lol http://hackles.org/cgi-bin/archives.pl?request=315 ToyMan (~stuq@user-0cevdks.cable.mindspring.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" Anyone know why the snapshot GZips are 1K as of 12-03 files? yes GNU turned off cvs access because of a breakin and those snapshots work by checking out a copy of cvs then tar'ing it up :-/ derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. is anyone else not able to update cvs? lol Action: derek isnt sure if subversions is having issues or it is just my machine you are about 2 minutes late ? Action: derek has had the issue all day :( Action: jcater just answered a similar question right before you logged in just switched to second connection and still have same problem ah normally i have a backlog to read :) http://savannah.gnu.org/statement.html but my laptop was in transit cvs has been down for 3-4 days dumb question but do we have cvs mirrored? i know at one time we were talking that we would mirror cvs on ash Action: derek thinks if we arent we have good justification to rms as to why we need the ability to as this is second time savannah has bit us remember e-Donkey (or whatever it was called) http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/snapshots/ is the closest thing we have Action: someon is reading .py files trying to learn... Action: someon just grabbed the 12-02 (last Snapshot with valid files) jcater: part of me says maybe we are better just pulling out of savannah :( There are files listed for after 12-02, but they are only 1K. They don't actually contain any of the files as sad as tthat sounds but now they are getting as bad as sourceforge yeah gnue is not a good thing to learn python from as there's a lot of crazy and advanced things happening in the code ;) I have mixed feelings imho me toto but there are a LOT of advantages of moving cvs to ash but 4 days of not getting to our cvs tree hurts and there are other advantages what's ash? a revision control? one disadvantage dtm: www.gnuenterprise.org server oh. dtm: a server oh. one disadvantage is pserver is not exactly secure iirc you guys could use svn on ash ;) and I don't know of another easy way to give anonymous access svn rocks '{ chillywilly: yeah sldkjfsldkjflskdjf Action: jcater is becoming a convert slowly dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.164.63) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel: Awake? it couldn't be... Nick change: someon -> someon-afk svn? subversions? jcater: we have set up new hosting boxen at the datacenter oh never mind ash is own box Action: derek was going to say we are moving our stuff over to subversions http://subversion.tigris.org Action: derek runs away for a bit hope to be back later... cya i am rejuvenated and wanting to hack some derek: take care y4y but disappointed that cvs is down :( out of curiosity hack away yeah what are other people's feelings towards savannah.gnu.org and our cvs ? vs us hosting our own cvs Action: derek am torn about loyalty to FSF vs. what is best for the project (or svn -- with a cvs gateway if needed) but if we moved to svn.... i think that would be a significant plus Action: derek runs away for real now wendall911 (~wendallc@torus.nidaho.net) left irc: "Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/" mdupont (mdupont@p5080E902.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) mdupont (mdupont@p5080E277.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #gnuenterprise. this is one of the coolest things i've seen in a while --> http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private/tattoo2.jpg yea disc t@2 is cool siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-69.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-208.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. Morning siesel :) jcater_ (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Nick collision from services. Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Connection timed out derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-163-189.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" dtm: Do you know if you _have_ to have that particular CDRW drive to T@2? Nick change: someon-afk -> someon someon: i dont know never heard of it before this jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client exiting" brolewis (~Lewis@cs24243191-67.hot.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. brolewis (~Lewis@cs24243191-67.hot.rr.com) left irc: "Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/" http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02212002 --- Sat Dec 6 2003