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<someon> Still no news re: Savannah?
<dtm> someon: correct.  not even on savannah-hackers mailing list.
<someon> Blah
<someon> I was reading the back-logs when there was all the discussion of why change hardware...  I had a completely different thought on it, but the explaination provided makes a lot of sense too.
<someon> I figured they were using different hardware, so they can save the original setup for forensic analysis of the breach
<dtm> they had a hardware upgrade planned for this month anyway so they went for it under cover of enemy fire
<someon> Nods, that what was in the back-logs...  That makes a lot of sense
<dtm> perhaps
<dneighbo> having a production server down for more than 24hours does NOT make sense
<dneighbo> call it what you want
<dneighbo> its not acceptable
<dneighbo> planned, breached or otherwise 
<dneighbo> imho of course
<dtm> yeah
<dtm> i'm inclined to agree
<dtm> one can only imagine what they're doing
<dtm> heheh
<dtm> and they know that many ones are imagining away
<someon> Heck..  my production servers aren't allowed to be down for more than an hour a month.
<dtm> neat
<someon> Planned or unplanned.  It's not enough time to do decent maintenance.  but that was the SLA that go signed
<dtm> mmhm
<dtm> well.  i wonder whether they'd staged the new hardware at all or whether they leapt it into production off the truck or whatever.  but then, I'm inclined to think that they're pretty good as of when I last investigated the sv architecture.
<dcmwai> can anyone tell me how to get a md5 hash out from a string (need it to be password on the ldap
Action: dcmwai thinking about getting grub-md5-crypt to do that jobs...
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<mdupont> hi dcmwai
<dcmwai> helli mdupont, what a late replay :)
<mdupont> just woke up
<dcmwai> is it?
<dcmwai> oh Morning :)
<mdupont> yea
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<siesel> morning
<dcmwai> Morning :)
<siesel> you solved the md5 problem?
<dcmwai> siesel: YEs Just as I say using grub-md5-crypt :)
Action: siesel just searched another oportunity to show the power of python (i.e. python md5 algorithm implementation)
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<jamest> so no eta on savannah
<chillywilly> dunno
<chillywilly> ask ajmitch_ the resident savnnah update specialist ;)
<reinhard> savannah doesn't respond for me at all
<reinhard> however ftpmaster.debian.org (or how that's called) is back today
<jamest> not having cvs is a pain
<jcater> yes
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<Mr_You> hi
<chillywilly> hello
<chillywilly> long time no see
<chillywilly> whatcha been up to/
<chillywilly> ?
<Mr_You> way too busy I think.
<Mr_You> working at a major bank doing unix server security.. working on my FreeBSD projects, etc.
<chillywilly> cool
<Mr_You> how about you?
<chillywilly> working on a large ERP project for a metals compant along with a few smaller consulting gigs
<chillywilly> company
<Mr_You> they using GNUe? ;-)
<chillywilly> working w/ havoc right there ->
<chillywilly> nope
<Mr_You> hi havoc
<Mr_You> what software are you using?
<chillywilly> it's all custom stuff...perl mainly ;)
<Mr_You> 100% web-enabled?
<chillywilly> yea, it's a big web app
<Mr_You> wow
<reinhard> an erp written in perl?
<reinhard> that's like a webpage written in cobol
<reinhard> ;-)
Action: Mr_You thinks it might be erp-like ;-)
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> don't be a python bigot
<chillywilly> ;P
<reinhard> chillywilly: j/k
<reinhard> <Knghtbrd> I really don't want much at all...  Just a kind word, an
<reinhard>            attractive woman, and UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH!!
<chillywilly> haha
<jamest> reinhard: those last two seem at odds with each other
<reinhard> jamest: true *lol*
<Mr_You> I might try to create a OSS development cluster whos resources come from donated PCs connected via broadband.
<Mr_You> like a nationwide compile farm.
<Mr_You> anyone opinions?
<jcater> like osdl?
<Mr_You> yeah, which reminds me I need to read up, except their resources are kept private right?
<Mr_You> in some datacenters?
<Mr_You> and I'd use FreeBSD vs Linux.
<Mr_You> it would be a combination of a really secure desktop, virtual private servers (dev sandboxes), distributed compiling, and potentially grid development.
<dcmwai> chillywilly, Why use perl and not using PSP or PHP?
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<Mr_You> probably written in perl before he joined the project.
<dcmwai> That is bad news.. :)
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<chillywilly> no, it is not my decision ;)
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<jamest> why use python instead of java?
<jamest> oh wait, i don't get to ask that do I? :)
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<siesel> hi all
<siesel> where's the fight? I heard the #gnue's "java" alarm bell...
<Mr_You> hehe
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<jamest> java?
<jamest> alarm?
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<siesel> cron.hourly: wget http://www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/gnue-public.log | if grep java gnue-public.log ; then xmessage "Java ALARM"; fi;
<siesel> probably I need to add another test:  jamest + java in one line --> false alarm ;)
<dsmith> heh
<jamest> :)
<ajmitch_> morning
<siesel> hi ajmitch
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<dsmith> Hey all you xml heads.  Whats the name of a tool that does arbitrary xml -> text conversions?  Not xml -> xml or html or some other markup, just ot some funky formatted text.
<nickr> that seems pointless
<Vee> rot13!
<nickr> because if you jpust strip out the tags you lose a lot of information
<dtm> dsmith: if i hit xml<tab><tab> i get a lot of response :)
<dtm> that's all i know
<nickr> oh
<nickr> arbitrary
<nickr> you mean xslt?
<dsmith> nickr: xslt.  Is that xml -> xml ?
<nickr> No
<nickr> its xml->lolurmom
<dtm> h0h0
<dsmith> ok thanks.
<nickr> most people say its only for -> xml, those people are idiots
<nickr> don't listen to them
<dtm> idiots are neat
<dsmith> Ah.
<dtm> oh, wait, no.  we dont like them
<nickr> idiots do more harm than good
<nickr> dsmith: if you wanth I have an example that turns xml from dia into sql using xslt
<dsmith> nickr: yes! That would be very cool.
<nickr> http://nick.industrialmeats.com/proj/xml
<nickr> all the stuff in there
<dsmith> nickr: Thanks
<nickr> the xsl sheet does the actual transformation, the script shows how to invoke a particular tool to do it
<nickr> and the test.dia is some test input
<dsmith> Got it.
<dsmith> I just installed xsltproc a minute ago.
<dtm> nickr knows everything
<dtm> i think.
<nickr> no, just a bit about everything
<dtm> that's pretty close
Action: dsmith fends off the xml menace with every fiber in his being
<dtm> oh dont do that!  xml feeds off of fiber!
<dsmith> lol
<dtm> and when you shoot your laser eyes at it, it absorbs the energy
<dtm> :/
<nickr> oh nelly, I do some evil stuff in that sheet
<dsmith> Every time I get into this stuff, my eyes glaze over.  To many tla's with x in them.
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> xslt's are easy to understand at their base level
<dtm> how in the schnikies do I search a list of all channel names and descriptions on a server?
<dtm> '/list' doesn't search, apparently
<nickr> the processor iteraters over the tags and calls the templates that match them
<nickr> unfortunately dia's xml language isn't really designed for this, so theres some hackerly stuff in it
<nickr> er, in the examlp e I gave you
<dsmith> nickr: How long did it take you to do that?
<nickr> couple hours to figure it all out
<dsmith> Yow.
<nickr> this is from the ground up
<dsmith> Probably take me a week.
<dsmith> nickr: Did you use any docs other than what you find at w3.org ?
<nickr>  I have a xml quickreference
<nickr> thats about it
<dsmith> THanks again!
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<dneighbo> dsmith should look at GNU Enterprise reportst
<dneighbo> it turns xml into html, text and other formats
<dneighbo> via xslt if you so desire even
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<dtm> dneighbo: bravo
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<dsmith> nickr: Can you send me that xslt for dia -> sql again?
<nickr>  http://nick.industrialmeats.com/proj/xml
<dsmith> THanks.
Action: dsmith smacks head
<dsmith> Should have looked for it in the logs.
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<dtm> hey guys, what's the flag that you add to #!/usr/bin/perl to get it to run with maximal debugging output?
<dtm> is it '-w'?
<dtm> trying to increase the loglevel for a cgi
<jamest_> dunno
<dtm> yeah that's it
<dtm> i dont know if my buddy will actually see the output though, since it's a cgi
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<dneighbo> dtm
<dneighbo> <dtm> hey guys, what's the flag that you add to #!/usr/bin/perl to get it to run with maximal debugging output?
<dneighbo> #!/usr/bin/python
<dneighbo> :)
<dtm> oh hey!  that's funny.
<dtm> so python executes perl code, does it?  that's brilliant of it!
<jcater> dtm: no, but I bet you get plenty of debugging output!
<jcater> or at least tracebacks
<dtm> ha
<dtm> lol
<dtm> bravo
<dneighbo> i think the mentality is
<dneighbo> perl is impossible to read
<dneighbo> so why bother putting in debugging information
<dneighbo> not like you could do anything useful with it :)
<dtm> :-I
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> damn savannah
<dtm> you are fairly wacked out sumpin' fierce there, dneighbo  ;)
<dtm> hey yeah did you guys notice the update message
<dtm> http://savannah.gnu.org/statement.html
<ajmitch_> yes
<dtm> well it sounds like progress.  slow and steady wins the race.
<dtm> it sounds like they have a strategy, even if not of optimal public-facing value
<dtm> but, i guess, they just had to audit everything, which i guess would take a while naturally, wouldn't it?
<jcater> uggh
Action: jcater doesn't look forward to going thru their ssh crap again
<jcater> at least when I did it originally, it didn't work all that well
<dneighbo> jcater: my thoughts exactly
<dneighbo> i saw that everything was jacked and having to "start over" and i about lost it
<dneighbo> personally im about willing to say fXXX it
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<dneighbo> install subversions on ash
<dneighbo> one person go through the pain and grab the tree
<dneighbo> then check it back in
<dneighbo> on ash
<dneighbo> as how many times are we going to ahve to do this fire drill?
<dtm> dneighbo: how many times have we?
<dtm> isn't this all?
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<dtm> do you think you can do a better job?
<dneighbo> dtm: this is second timie
<dneighbo> no i cant
<dneighbo> but i think the people that admin our boxes can
<dneighbo> not only that we are a much less of a target than FSF
<dneighbo> simply put compare the crack of FSF to Debian
<dneighbo> Debian immediately caught the intrusion
<dneighbo> brought everything off line
<dneighbo> announced it to the world
<dneighbo> built exact story of what happened
<dneighbo> fixed it and brought it back on line
<dtm> well if you just dont think they do a very good job, then that's substantial
<dneighbo> patched all packages and were 90% running in under 24 hours
<dneighbo> now look at the FSF crack
<dneighbo> thtey dont know "when" they really got cracked
<dneighbo> they are not really sure "how"
<dneighbo> they ASSUME it was same as Debian
<dtm> yeah and they did a hardware upgrade at the same time, which I definately would not have done
<dneighbo> the have no story
<dtm> I can't imagine that they could have staged the upgrade
<dneighbo> and its going on WEEKS to get even a partial system up
<dtm> seeing how the hardware alone failed in the process
<dneighbo> dtm: i am as big of a FSF loyalist as they come
<dtm> yeah i know
<dtm> i hear ya
<dneighbo> but for heavens sake im not going to sugar coat the fact they seriously dropped the ball here (imho)
<dtm> well i knew they had some good infrastructure but they are also severely overworked
<dtm> last i knew, they had only 2 admins
<dtm> which is insane
<dtm> i guess they were paying loic and someone else, right?
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<dneighbo> hi alan
<alandd> hello
<dneighbo> dtm?
<dneighbo> wtf?
<dneighbo> is this m$ admin school?
<dneighbo> only TWO admins?
<dneighbo> they have 3 friggen boxes
<dtm> ?
<dneighbo> what do they need an army?
<dneighbo> seriously
<dneighbo> i will buy the "volunteer run" schtick
<dneighbo> but if you are telling me they had 2 paid admins
Action: dneighbo thinks they didnt have paid admins that it was all volunteers
<dtm> they have a high availability ASP data center, plus support and new user orientation, so i dont know
<dneighbo> ASP data center?
<dtm> i dont recall if they were paid, hence THE QUESTION
Action: dneighbo thinks either we are talking about a different FSF or they have changed a lot in the last year
<dneighbo> seriously it PAINS me to admit the state of the situation
<dneighbo> and thus probably my frustration
<dtm> i think 1) i'm asking a couple questions, and 2) you *love* to compulsively freak out
<dtm> early and often
<dtm> :)
Action: alandd thinks freak outs can be fun, on occasion.
<dtm> lol
<dtm> in permissive audience, yes
<dtm> bull in china shop != good
<jcater> well, futurama is on... bbl
<dneighbo> dtm: we have had severe problems with CVS
Action: alandd listens intently about CVS...
<dtm> :/
<dtm> they're a victim of their own success ;)
<dneighbo> yes but we dont let m$ get away with that excuse
<dneighbo> btw: im not so irrated with the cracks (stuff happens)
<dneighbo> it is how they are handled
<dneighbo> but anyhow
<dneighbo> hopefully they will learn and move forward with better procedures in the future
<dtm> yeah the FSF is fairly unprofessional
<dtm> in pretty much every way
<dtm> pains me terribly to even think it
<dtm> i've gone to enormous lengths to comprehend and promote them from all possible angles and perspectives
<dtm> as have so many here, truly valiant effort
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<dtm> and it's an organization that eschews professionalism afaik
<dtm> that's really the problem because countless individuals, groups, and businesses have done so much and offered so much more
<dtm> and it can't really take much hold.  witness the nonadoption of gnue itself.
<dneighbo> well we tried
<dneighbo> but we dont have an emacs driver
<dtm> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<dneighbo> and because two artifacts there wont use anything but emacs to do anything
<dneighbo> GNU Enterprise was not viable
Action: dneighbo is sadly being serious
<dtm> i would make a joke about that, but I just don't care to  :}
<dtm> coz it's too stupid and sad
<dtm> and too harsh
<dtm> how alienating
<dtm> that's the antithesis of their existance
<dtm> to make demands like that
<chillywilly> freakin' smelly commie hippy bastids
<dtm> lol
<dtm> COMMIES
<chillywilly> btw, perl is not impossible to read, but whatever ;)
<chillywilly> bunch of python snobs in here
<chillywilly> maybe if you LEARNED the language then it wouldn't be impossible
<chillywilly> ;-o
<someon> Oh come on...  You need to be able to access GNUe systems through either vi or emacs to REALLY get accepted
<dneighbo> someon: this is a GNU project.. we have anti vi headers to prevent such heresy
<jcater> chillywilly: I know you're out trolling
<jcater> but I can't make heads or tails of perl I wrote a year or two ago
<jcater> but can figure out my python
<jcater> fwiw :)
<jcater> bah this damn machine
<jcater> keeps segfaulting my programs
Action: jcater looks for a bat
<chillywilly> I am not trolling
Action: chillywilly gets the trout
Action: dneighbo gets out of the way of mr. walking tall
<jcater> argh!@
<jcater> and this was going to be my mythtv machine
<dneighbo> i think that channel five is picking up that some good ole boy in Mississippi has him self holed up in his house... and is violently beating his computers into submission
<jcater> good ole boy?
<chillywilly> evil
<jcater> I'm a liberal in the most conservative county within a day's drive
Action: jcater isn't considered a good ole boy :)
Action: chillywilly does not pigeon hole himself into the lame 2 party political system
<chillywilly> for the record
<jcater> well, good for you
<chillywilly> thanks
Action: chillywilly tosses jcater a lead donut
Action: jcater doesn't recall placing himself in one of the two parties either
<dneighbo> did i type good ole boy...
<dneighbo> i mean pillsbury dough boy.... sigh
<jcater> that's better
Action: dneighbo runs for cover as he forgot jcater had a bat
<jcater> nite
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<chillywilly> wimp
<dtm> a;lsjdfs
<dtm> chillywilly: what are you up to
<chillywilly> watching battlestar galactica mini series
<dtm> a'ight.
<alandd> the latest issue of gnue irc traffic is from Nov 10.  Not tracking it anymore?
<chillywilly> our main guy is now into the prop. ERP racket so cannot in good faith contribute to GNUe
<chillywilly> which is rather sad, but oh wll
<chillywilly> well
<chillywilly> he can no longer do the KCs
<alandd> ah.
<alandd> interesting
<SachaS> chillywilly which prop ERP?
Action: someon feels kinda the same way - using a prop. extensible ERP..
<chillywilly> I have no idea
<dtm> chillywilly: which main guy?  havoc?
<chillywilly> peter
<SachaS> does not matter actually
<chillywilly> psu
<dtm> OH
<chillywilly> the guys that used to do that KCs
<chillywilly> guy
<alandd> brb
Nick change: SachaS -> SachaAway
<ajmitch> psu has turned?
<ajmitch> oh dear :(
<dneighbo> hmmm bigbrother is here
<dneighbo> eh should be logging
<chillywilly> ajmitch: when I asked him why he didn't do the cousins anymore he confessed his prop. sins ;)
<dneighbo> did alandd escape
<chillywilly> he said: "brb"
<chillywilly> so frickin' wait already
<chillywilly> sheesh
<dtm> 23:09 < alandd> brb
<dtm> i saw it all.  i was there.
<dtm> he reached up with his dead hand, and signed his irc client in his own blod
<dtm> blood
<chillywilly> you best be knownin' it
<Vee> alandd ever able to get the environment on the ipaq crafted enough to embrace gnue goodness?
<dtm> chillywilly: damn, yeah.
<chillywilly> I so need to go to da stow
<chillywilly> negroes
<Vee> I need to get to work, caucasian
<chillywilly> you should sleep latino man
<dtm> chillywilly: what are you gettin at this time of night?  pork rinds and a forty?
<Vee> sleep is for honkies!
<dtm> lol
<dtm> fo shizzle
<dtm> tip one for our fallen homie, psu
<chillywilly> dtm: hellz yea...I be gittin' my grub on
<dtm> well you best be gittin yo travel on then
<dtm> y'all best raise up!
<dtm> unless you got the 24 hour chicken shack in effect
<chillywilly> but it's cold out
<chillywilly> waaaaaa
<chillywilly> and I am lazy
<dtm> yeah dewd it's blizzarding in KS
<dtm> is it snowing there yet
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> I'll go after battlestar
<dtm> oiic
<chillywilly> I missed the end lat time
<chillywilly> last
<dtm> soon, Scotty will be old enough to make the pork rinds run for ya
<chillywilly> then I will be old
<chillywilly> truly be old
<chillywilly> old and lazier
<dtm> ok
<dtm> yeah
<dtm> and bald
<dtm> and crotchety
<chillywilly> no way
<dtm> k
<dtm> me neither
<chillywilly> I have okenty of hair
<dtm> you should save it up
<chillywilly> I have the white man's afro
<chillywilly> I am a real brotha
<dtm> lawlz
<chillywilly> actually my hair line is starting to recede some
<dtm> is anyone here abreast of the state of the art in GPL quake playing?
<alandd> b
<dtm> oh man let's not talk about that
Action: chillywilly waits for it to fall out
<dtm> that's freaky stuff
<dtm> crazy stuff!
<dtm> Welcome to ftp.idsoftware.com
<dtm> Average throughput for this server is 986.997 KBps.
<dtm> 22294 people have visited this site in the last 24 hours.
<dtm> not bad.
<alandd> Vee: got close.  See http://mindspring.com/~alandd/gnue/ipaqlog.html down at the bottom, last entry.
<chillywilly> well at least I can travel there in style in my new Saturn ;)
<dtm> wooo 
<chillywilly> I can be pimpin' it to da stow
<dtm> travel where?
<dtm> oh.
<dtm> yeah.
<dtm> so you can raise up and git yo' travel on
<ajmitch> bah, rich people & their toys :P
<dtm> yeah.
<chillywilly> yea, I am so rich....
<chillywilly> if I was rich then my desk here would be clean because I would have a maid to clean it off
<chillywilly> but alas it is a mess
<chillywilly> it's like a twister came through the room
<chillywilly> and the sad thing is I just don't care
<chillywilly> ;P
Action: ajmitch can't buy shoes, let alone a car :P
<chillywilly> :(
--- Wed Dec 10 2003