<derek> well LuftHans if you are around i filled your mailbox :)
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<LuftHans> derek: if you're still around, I see that :)
<LuftHans> if you're not around, I don't see it :)
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<thierry> hi gnuers
<jamest> hi
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<derek> LuftHans: are you around?
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<jamest> um
<lupo__> yip?
<jamest> i call upon the power of the gnue'rs
<jamest> (i'm desperate :)
<jamest> i need to respond to this
<jamest> > We have the document in word, so that people may type their information
<jamest> > in the form.  I don't think we are able to do that with a PDF document.
<jamest> > What do you think?
<jamest> I'd like to offer a reasonable set of alternatives to .doc files being used by one of the IT departments on campus
<jcater> which part are you responding to?
<jcater> PDF forms will do that
<jcater> cf., irs.gov
<jamest> i know pdf can do forms but they are a pita IIRC
<dsmith> jamest: i remember just seeing something about a Free Software tax program that uses PDF files published by the irs.  "fill in forms" or something.
<jamest> as you have to set them up as forms in acrobat
<jamest> i don't think the adobe printer pdf driver sees underlines as form fields
<lupo__> i don't see the exact problem: the creation of PDF forms, the user experience of them or some technical reason?
<lupo__> btw, does anyone know an EFnet server?
<jamest> the problem is the state of ks and some parts of ksu luv them some M$ stuff
<jamest> and M$ luvs them back
<jamest> right now the argument against my request for pdf instead of .doc is in the text above
<jamest> "they cant do forms w/ pdf"
<jamest> which I know they can
<lupo__> they don't want to
<jamest> the next argument will be "it's harder"
<lupo__> i'd call it stupidity or willful ignorance
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<jamest> so i've put down the crack pipe and I'm asking my follow hippy free software loving pot smokers, er i mean gnue'rs for any other alternative I can suggest
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<lupo__> a kick in the ass
<jamest> my first thought is RTF
<jcater> at a minimum
<jcater> or dual versions
<jcater> or a quick and dirty html forms
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<jcater> that presents a printable html page w/stuff filled out
<jcater> dual versions == offer .doc or readonly PDF
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<jcater> s/or/and
<jamest> i imagine anything that == more work would be shot down
<jamest> part of this departments duty is to insure interoperability in data on campus
<jamest> so I'm trying to call them on that without coming across as an rms :)
<lupo__> tell them that you have an award-winning industry leading system and install gnue.
Action: lupo__ has no sound ideas today...
<jamest> lol
<jamest> damn hippies
<lupo__> :)
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> it's hard to argue w/that mindset
<jcater> you need a dell user that only has wordperfect to call them on it
<jcater> probably a futile argument though
<jcater> futile refering to outcome
<jcater> not argument
<jamest> so far they are polite and have asked for input
<jamest> i pasted the entire reply above
<jamest> it could be like the prof in this department that came to me after he bought MS Office for his house pc
<jamest> he didn't know the OpenOffice.org he used in linux at work was free for Windows too
<jcater> I'll be glad when OOo is at about 3.0 or so
<chillywilly> anyone know why when i start realvncserver I get a blank frickin' X session?
<jamest> chillywilly: doesn't debian block *dm to console only by default
<chillywilly> what does that have to do with vnc?
<jcater> chillywilly: probably need to modify your ~/.vnc/xstartup
<chillywilly> it's not satrting up a desktop session but it did for rot
<jcater> I have
<chillywilly> ok
<jamest> iirc vnc on a *nix box uses xdm doesn't it?
<jcater> xrdb $HOME/.Xresources
<jcater> xsetroot -solid grey
<jcater> startkde &
<chillywilly> not sure what to put in there for gnome though
<jcater> me neither
<jamest> for gnome?
<jamest> rm -rf /
<chillywilly> haha
<chillywilly> I've been using 2.4 for quite a while
<chillywilly> I like it
<chillywilly> gdesklets are secsky
<chillywilly> I could do remote X w/ xdmcp if I wanted
<jcater> chillywilly: http://www.trilug.org/pipermail/rhce/2003-November/000728.html
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> I don't even have a .Xresources ;P
<chillywilly> what's in yours?
<chillywilly> you put some stuff in there?
<dsmith> chillywilly: only "real" X programs use suff from there.  Gnome and KDE and other sissy things don't. ;^)
<chillywilly> I know that
<dsmith> chillywilly: I have aterm settings in there.
<dsmith> chillywilly: Also, some default emacs fonts and stuff.
<chillywilly> hmmm, that didn't freakin' help
<dsmith> chillywilly: Sorry.
<chillywilly> uh?
<chillywilly> I mean satrting gnome-session
<chillywilly> starting
<jcater> chillywilly: I don't have an Xresources that I can tell
<chillywilly> maybe if I define a .Xsession
<chillywilly> wth
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<chillywilly> onyl root is able to start up a desktop session in the vnc server
<chillywilly> only
<chillywilly> blah
<kilo> hi
<kilo> james, are you here?
<jamest> yes
<jamest> sorta
<jamest> i've not had a chance to get back into gnue
<jamest> house remodeling followed by a demanding client :)
Action: jamest is a bad person
Action: chillywilly thwaps jamest 
<lupo__> btw, where is our candian smokey mcpott ?
<kilo> house remodeling? changing the roof and the vault? 8-))
<jcater> kilo: from what I here
<jcater> he's changing out his office
<jcater> putting a toilet where his chair used to be
<jcater> I might
<jcater> have misunderstood though
<jcater> =)
<jbailey> Eh?  What are you doing to the poor Canadians?
<kilo> well, let's be honest, 90% of men love to sit and read on the toilet 8-)))
<jamest> jbailey: ignoring them apparently
<jbailey> kilo: You make it sound like women don't./
<jbailey> jamest: Ah, okay.
<jamest> and jcater is close enough
<jamest> i'm adding a bathroom in the basement
<jbailey> The great part about being ignored is that you can wander around yelling "SHEEPFUCKER!" and noone will really care.
<jamest> so that I'll hardly ever need to go near the big bright burning orb in the big blue room
<jamest> jbailey: in here that might actually get you a couple of new friends
<kilo> jbailey: i don't know, the essay only mentioned men...
<kilo> well then james, i would only like to report that the dropdown hack does work on win32
<kilo> but does not work on wx
<kilo> at debuglevel 3 it reports the appropriate error
<jamest> figures
Action: jamest hands chillywilly a trout
Action: jamest thwaps wx with a trout holding chillywilly
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<kilo> gauntlet is good for testing it, at debuglevel 3
<jamest> thanks
<jamest> i'll attempt to look at it rsn
<kilo> ok, thanks
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<jamest> Win a personal voicemail from Britney Spears!
<jamest> Its all at the Samsung Fun club.
<jamest> geee
<jamest> thanks
<jamest> That's all I've never wanted.
<jamest> I can't stand to listen to the recordings she sells on the plastic shiny disks
<Vee> I wish they made these for hoomans: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2980180592
<jamest> Vee: lucky for us they do
<jamest> only the government doesn't want you to know about it
<jamest> http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html
<jamest> gack
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