in #gnue, of course. =) hey hey ppl Action: chillywilly hugs Gnome 2.4 http://www.libertyetech.com/screenshots/busy-desktop.png w00t herrew chillywilly: get me a guitar recordnig ummm, a new one? I wish I had decent equipment to record all my jamming sessions i will accept even an indecent one, in any format. jbailey (~jbailey@CPE00062579efac-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Client exiting" sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~ajmitch@202.89.56.249) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ajmitch (~ajmitch@pop11-port245.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-134.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-134.conceptual.net.au) left irc: Remote closed the connection SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-134.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-246.conceptual.net.au) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) johannesV (~johannes@M1563P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client exiting" johannesV (~johannes@M1563P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Client Exiting" Nick change: SachaS_ -> SachaS johannesV (~johannes@M1563P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-134.conceptual.net.au) left irc: "Client exiting" dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.58.27) joined #gnuenterprise. sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: dneighbo_ -> derek SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-223.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr btami (~tamas@wrr.napnet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-12.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. johannesV (~johannes@M1563P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Client Exiting" dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.58.27) left irc: "Client exiting" jcater_ (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater btami (~tamas@wrr.napnet.hu) left irc: siesel (~jan@xdsl-213-196-229-158.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi :) yo anyone have an example of programitcally using the db abstraction layer in gnue common? ;P there should be one in jcater's public_html dir. ok http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/common/api/ <-- sweet here it is: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/demo-datasources.py cw: yeah :) cool, thanks it's even easier than that let me upload the script I used to print 1099s this year http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/examples/ print_1099s.py is read-only db access print_checks.py is read and write print_checks contains a lot of postscript stuff, though but the db stuff is really simple cool to say the least, it's hard for me to write python apps these days without using gnue-common :) hey, seems you're getting old and lazy ;) cool no doubt postscript is evil ;P postscript is evil pcl, epson esc/p, etc are eviler do you have to use GClientApp? btami (~tamas@wrr.napnet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. what is someone were to want to use mod_python ;P GClientApp handles init'ing the connections they don't need arg parsing then ok I see alrighty look at GBaseApp though it may be better for you does less hi btami hi siesel and all cw: if you want to use it in mod_python, it probably make sense to do the initialisation yourself as you won't need the whole GBaseApp. siesel: how goes the exams? I'm through, I'm through,.... YEAHH siesel: provided I can figure out how to do that in a reasonable amount of time ;P siesel: w00t siesel: congrats thx siesel: do you have a masters degree now or something? or whatever the foreign equivalent is ;P its a magister, which is the first degree to get (i.e. like bacholor) but qualifies to write a doctor thesis. (i.e. like master) ok hmmm, need to finsih paperwork finish btw. about the session management, I would use some extra modules to implement it. mod_python has a Session class f.e. http://snakelets.sourceforge.net/ or something else. sorry, I don't know anything about it :) can subclass it...but the mechanism I was thinking of using was after an xmlrpc of a login() it will returna struct of info (session id, etc.) then the client would have to send back some http header (http basic auth?) with the session info on every subsequent xmlrpc call does that sound sane? ;P It will work, but the more xmlrpc calls you get the worser you latency becomes xmlrpc call of login() how does the appserver handle authentication? the gnue appserver can't someone basically set any headers they want in HTTP and if the client doesn't understand them it just ignores them? doesn't matter though as I will write a client wrapper anyway just wondering if the spec allowed it protocol whatever ;P siesel: well it's only 1 xmlrpc call then the session info will be in http headers and will have some timeout value 1 extra YOu can do authentification through http headers, or XMLRPC extra fields. but this isn't supported by appserver yet. extra method params right? So if you use appserver you need this extra method. siesel: what is the session concept in appserver used for? Its like a "WWW session", i.e. someone logs in manipulates data and logs out, i.e. one user, but multiple page accesses how do you maintain the state between client and server? through a session_id how is that passed in? ;P it is passed through as an extra attribute with each xmlrpc call. ok extra function paramter? parameter can't type so you could reuse it, but it seems to be better to use the mod_python session to store it I'd have to subclass it as I'd like to store session info in the db like load(sess_id,'tablename', bla bla) it has a MemorySession and a DbmSession children of the Session class Action: btami thinks chillyilly will play in appserver team again :) also has a locking mechanism but I fail to see what the point of that is why would you lock a session? anyone? my connection seems so laggy hmmm, nope just the mod_python site is slow la lala la la slow. It's not accessible from here :( doesn't want to load for me...bah lallala. Action: chillywilly watches galeon sit and spin round and round she goes where she stops nobody knows hey dee tee eeeemm well I think I have docs installed locally shalalala la .... seems we should create a band: "The GNUe La la LA's" nah k hey chillx0r and siesel and ajmitch I'll play the guitart guitar siesel: you can be lead singer dtm: will be on the drums and ajmitch can play bass derek can be our roadie jamest: and jcater are the management k lol derek the roadie. yeah he's got the hard core look. hehehe does he have monster chops these days? i got a buddy at google who had the monster chops no idea google rocks ;P he works at google/ ? damnit fingers, work type the right letters hehe yes he does he's their python guru w00t google rocks cause they use python hey! that's a good song text: ......brm brm ... dammit fingers work, ... work ,, work.... dammit fingers work ... that's all anyone needs to point to, to show the powa of the snake ;P siesel: lol TittyTwister (~TittyTwis@p50855F3B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Hi. rofl nice nick <-- The Name? Yeah. Yours 2. :-) what's more power than a tornado? powerful Dunno. a titty twister! Tata Tata Tataaaa. ;P my dad used to say that right before he practically ripped my nipple off GNUe Question: What's the business with the Appserver? How far is it and WHY is it done? Why not take a finished one allready? why is it NOT done? Yeah. Why build a new Appserver? ERP - that's ok. No OSS here. But OSS has Appservers a dime a dozen because none fit the criteria? althought its called appserver you can't compare it with jboss f.e. because it is much more specialized. It focuses on business method + data access only and will bring a new method of defining business modules and combining them. @ siesel: Ok, then. WHat's the deal with the GNUe Appserver? Is it faster? Does it do special stuff? Or is it so specialized that everything else is a hideous bloat, no matter how cool the appserver may be? other appserver don't speak gnue formats or protocols ;P f.e. you can define modules which enhance basic modules by adding extra fields to standart tables. most of the appserver work was already in gnue-common code base so it was just a matter of putting the pieces together sire there's more stuff to be done but the core was implemnted easily by using GNUe's common code base and it is written in python :) ;P @ chillywilly: Errmmm... No. Nice try, but no, that's no reason. After all, that's the whole point of Appservers: Being able to latch onto whatever format or protocol you want with minimum hassle. PYthon. Yeah, shure. THe appserver I had in mind (the best imho) is also written in Python. Entirely, almost. (Hint, hint) which one? It would be way cool for prototyping too. the one similar to your name? Wanna guess? No. ??? (simular to my Nick???) LOL zope :P Bingo. 100 point and the washing machine go to was zope gpl when gnue starteD? Zope is great, but its web based. GNUe started when? Half a year ago? (Thats when I heard of it...) TittyTwister: yeah things start when TittyTwister hears of them. the world ends on the other side of this door. GNUe is older than zope. even older than the persistent web stuff zope evolved out I did NOT say that GNUe started last year! Ok. Sorry about that. THat explains alot. uh, yeah. you did. Actually no. I asked a question. Sorry anyway. jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-12.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) nevertheless, the reason we didn't use zope is, that zope is way too big, and it uses a ODBMS as backend, while we mostly use RDBMS but I don't fully recall. everything is written down in on kernel cousins gnue. gnue supports more dbs than zope ;P TittyTwister: maybe I misspoke then the point I was getting is that the appserver is done the "gnue" way...it uses the common code base q :Really? I'd say Zope supports just as much. With a littel scripting anyway. :-) I dunno what the big deal about Zope is I've looked at it and I am not that impressed The common code base being? A serious GNU thing I surpose? ... Sorry for asking, I'm a GNU n00b. gnue-common module TittyTwister: there's a module called "gnue-common" Ok, got it. http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/common/api TittyTwister: there are many gnue core developers using Zope. Me too, but I don't use it for everything :) jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-12.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jamest @ chillywilly: Zope is a slowpoke and obviously hideously bloated for GNUe needs. And since GNUe - as I know now - is brewing since the dawn of manking...errr... since befor Zope was GPLd I understand that this Zope thing is a non-issue. hi hi j Hi. amest oops. :) @ chillywilly: Yet: Zope roxxors imho. Object relational is the way to go in the future. No DB connectivity crap or that kind of stuff. You just need a solid stat disk and your in butter. :-) mmmMMmmmm .. buttah!! I need to dump my kaddress book and import it into evolution you need to use ldap. set it up with me! I could just run my own server ;P hmmm, I should do that a nice centralized addressbook A general GNUe question (new topic): How is GNUe developing speedwise and what are the current problems? Is real world use of GNUe widespread? that would rock we're slow damn slow slower than that actually I thought so. molasses? but it used daily in some locations slower than continental drift oozing puss outta an infected wound Dig this: You started before(!!) Zope was GPLd. LOL Zope does not have the same goals as GNUe the comparison is retarded we're still slow there was an authoritative company behind Zope, proper Yeah, yeah. I got it. I DID NOT compare the two. Promise: I won't mention the Z word here again. Deal? What are the current 'big issues' with the GNUe developement? we need people willing to work on solutions using gnue we need appserver a bit further along the ui system needs expanded then polish and a little tlc the tools that exist work well enough but projects like gnue-sb are going slow INtel: I'm working on a custom ERP / SCM solution for a customer. Compiere creeps me out and I'm a Python guy. I'm considering using an existing ERP framework, if it's easy enough getting into the code. Is GNUe messy or clean? I presume clean, since GNUes taking time. No? lol it's clean enough What's gnue-sb? gnue small biz we've started working on api docs internally and I know jcater started going thru some old code this week and determined we were on crack or something but for the most part it's pretty clean but I'm bias :) it is clean it's just a large code base gnue-common rocks IMHO yes Ah. So small-biz module (LOL) whatever that may be - needs some help. What standards in financial tracking accounts does GNUe support? Or is it all custom? was just telling chillywilly how I can't write a python program these days w/o using gnue-common So GNUe-common == large code base. How may lines aprox? hang on checking TittyTwister: you could download it and run 'wc' dtm: sloccount but of course. HI JAMEST Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 20,433 that's for gnue-common wc returns 47K it doesn't include any other gnue-* tools which of course isn't accurate as that's comments, included i think sloccount ignores comments yeah just pointing it out :) 50K lines. That seams reasonable. That's the upside of 'being slow'. :-= )) i'll run the count project wide :) Err... and it _seems_ reasonable too. Don't know about the seams, actually. Maybe they're threading. LOL. What about the site? Sorry, but the visual design is... well, how should I put it? It's subobtimal. Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 64,726 well, we're not web designers Thx. that's the only excuse I can give none of us particularly love the website i blame derek but then again, it works true Care if I pitch in? Who's got the sitecode? And the *shudder* pictures? Oh. No dear of Webdesigners bloat. Check out my site: www.richdale.de Oh. No _f_ear of Webdesigners bloat. Check out my site: www.richdale.de TittyTwister: yes you need to do a CRM app on gnue. Eh? Me customer need no CRM. He need SCM. Comprende? :-)) source code management? too many acronyms ;P Supply Chain Management. You shure your developing ERP software (<-- this is a joke! Laugh!) hehe your site looks like a bad acid trip to me ;P Honestly now? chillywilly: roffle well the about page is all blurry makes me feel like I am trippin' i wouldn't know anything about that. DEAR LORD MY EYES!! Well, I get eye-cancer from gnue...org. Really. yeah, reading is hard well, I have a graphics artist buddy who can kick ass http://ui4.metalexpress.net/metal_mockup.jpg yeah that's coz he's in collusion with the Ass Hospital created by him and their primary supplier, Ass Remedies, Inc. how very DISINGENUOUS of him, chillywilly!! just proves it's all about who ya know. graphics artist people are good for something afterall " yeah, reading is hard" My site or gue...org? k just don't ask them to create the html to produce that ;P TittyTwister: gnue.org chillywilly: i wouldn't dare chillywilly: but i like the current one better imho metal-mockup isn't that a good design. It looks to size and aspect ration dependent IMHO. I don't k it's just a rough thing, you can change teh size the Just for the book: I wouldn't completely redo gnue...org, but change some colors, some fonts and add a little css. gnuenterprise.org what's so hard about typing that ;P gnue.org gnuenterprise.org... thx. No I can copy and paste. :-) g-n-u-e-n-t-e-r-p-r-i-s-e.org dubya dubya dubya dot gah-new enter piiiize dot org Here are some really good css based designs with zero eye and browser suckage: www.csszengarden.com. There you find the best designers in the world. I personally would suggest something like www.alistapart.com stylewise for gnuenterprise.org. My 2 Eurocents. i'm sure we can discuss something productive :) wasn't someone interested in some solution of some kind productive? wassat? I am much too tired to be productive that's like eating cauliflower with ranch, but with a computer instead. i think wait, no it's not. soon the SB will be on then I can sit on the couch like a lump k i dunno : I'm starting 2 understand why GNUe takes so long. :-) TittyTwister: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!! :] it's sunday for srying out loud TittyTwister: so get to it! crying TittyTwister: ccs zen garden, is a great site. I especially like the bonsai theme. What? Designing? the limit of my productivity functionas sunday appropaches is equal to 0 TittyTwister: btw. did the scm system you plan to do, just focus on basic management, or will it include de-bottleneck optimization stuff? It would probably be _very_ customized. Yet right now we are considering to kick off modularization, so I thought it would be fitting to check out some ERP stuff. There are no de-bottleneck accounts or stuff like that to handle, if that's what you mean. ok, so you mainly need inventory functions and specialized workflows. Yes. Manly some heavly automized SCM stuff. My client is in the E-Commerce game. And he used Interchange. That over-the-top Perl based webshop. haaa!!! TittyTwister, does he still use it? Yes. sweet IC is pretty nifty but complex TittyTwister: what's the url if you are allowed to say We just startet. After ditching that Zope based insult to all software called 'bizarshop'. If you ever run into that: Run far away fast! www.buchelefant.de oscommerce sucks too ;P run far away from that hahahah "bizarshop" chillywilly: I tried oscommerce a few years ago jcater: :-o Action: jcater still shudders from the experience YEARS? when it was even WORSE? oscommerce is cool. But Interchange is older and has more gadgets. dtm: I don't think oscommerce has changed any in those years yes if by "cool" you mean "horribly disfigured excuse for an application" I use interchange for a site now I have mixed feelings though jcater: you must reduce and control your feelings. Clear your mind. Let the force floooowwwww. Or control you, they will!!! YOu think oscommerce sucks? Check this: http://www.bizarsoftware.com/. THe Zope license should forbid this company to use their appserver. jcater is sad coz he hasn't fixed gpg email yet TittyTwister: *snortchortle* hehehe heh, stupid slogan stupid name too Forget the name and the slogan. The site isn't half bad. But the product is a massive heap of BS. stupidity abounds ha! dtm: first and formost, I'm sad because I have yet to get my payment gateway working :-/ Action: dtm loads www.buchelefant.de Action: dtm gazes upon the glory of foundation demo jcater: :/ He