holycow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection johannesV (~johannes@M1556P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" dimas (~ds@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: not that i think you read the logs, but using dbsig2's parameter system could still be better than our _toSqlString because it does things like date formatting according to the database etc. automatically as well as quoting strings the way the db likes it there are like 4 ways how parameters can be passed but dbsig2 driver have to provide methods for creating objects for parameters so it still would be the much more general approach of doing things plus i don't like to re-do things (in _toSqlString) that are already done somewhere else (in the dbsig2 module) but i might be wrong thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. dimas (~ds@195.218.177.46) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) kilo (~kilo@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. dimas (~ds@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "working" btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (~jan@61-216-92-204.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all hi siesel dsmith (zi003469ei@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1f-100.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) kilo (~kilo@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: "Leaving" jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: still looking at a release this week? yes well a prerelease tomorrow -pre2 for appserver and common i think we have to clear the status of forms, reports and designer before final release they "work for me" as of last friday i'm using in production ok i'll need to update to very latest and test but i want to start breaking things again so i could push out a prerelease for them, tomorrow, too? i think jason was slapping some together last night for you IIRC ah oh btw we were using a tool to create changelogs cvs2cl.pl IIRC yep it was one of my conditions to agree with svn that such a tool exists IIRC :) jcater suggested we just use the output of svn log now uh oh i find that output butt ugly apart from that it does not show which files were affected IIRC neither does cvs2cl.pl of course it does ah, wait, it does :) ok i can write a script to convert svn log -v to GNU changelog format i'll try and sneak it in this am you shure it doesn't exist yet? i can't imagine noone wanted such a thing yet what I'm finding on google is svn log -v gives same info if a person wants more then someone should write a script :) http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svn/archive-2002-04/0896.shtml is one i keep hitting grrr my nameserver is dead so is mine :) imagine that :) :) however i usually don't update NEWS and ChangeLog for prereleases, only for final release so we can think about it for a few more days :) ah, i should be trival to create it looking at the output siesel (~jan@61-216-92-204.HINET-IP.hinet.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) siesel (~jan@61-216-92-204.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning jcater morning thanks for throwing out the prereleases I haven't announced anything yet johannesV (~johannes@M1556P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.58.147) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@dragonfly.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. bbl reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "The more often you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets." johannesV (~johannes@M1567P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. anyone here using jabber? I am. dimas (~ds@195.218.177.46) left irc: "Вышел из XChat" wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) joined #gnuenterprise. bddebian (bddebian@pcp08545886pcs.lndsd101.pa.comcast.net) joined #gnuenterprise. bbl reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: if you get a chance, can you svn update and see if gnue-common/utils/svn2cl works for you? jcater: thanks, i'll look does anybody use the pypsycopg driver? err the pypgsql driver i mean i have verified and popy, psycopg and pygresql work but i don't even find which package to install for pypgsql -- and for the record the "pq_recvbuf: unexpected EOF on client connection" message we get for postgres is a bug in psycopg it works fine without that message w/ popy and pygresql jcater: i get a traceback File "../gnue-common/utils/svn2cl", line 68, in linewrap buff = string.replace(temptext.replace('\n\n','\r').replace('\n',' '),'\r') TypeError: replace() takes at least 3 arguments (2 given) reinhard: what version of python? 2.1 try w/ 2.2 IIRC Action: jamest seems to recall that functoin changing in later releases w00t can you svn update I must not have done a Ctrl+S last time i tested it jcater: looks very cool jcater: 2 minor things a) line 53: i would change the 2nd argument to string.join from ',' to ', ' (output would look better) b) we should only include the paths that are under the current directory now when a commit included files from appserver and from common (for example) the file list also includes the files of the other package ah, hadn't noticed that i think i would even be able to do both points myself but you may be faster :) I'll look at in a second apart from that i'd even say contribute the script to the svn project :) btami (~tamas@napalm.napnet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: the pypgsql driver is python-pgsql in debian IIRC and i'v used it in win32 packages too btami: thanks sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. bddebian (bddebian@pcp08545886pcs.lndsd101.pa.comcast.net) left irc: "Leaving" siesel (~jan@61-216-92-204.HINET-IP.hinet.net) left irc: "Client exiting" jbailey (~jbailey@dragonfly.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client exiting" bddebian (bddebian@pcp08545886pcs.lndsd101.pa.comcast.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@dragonfly.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dcmwai (~dcmwai@219.95.58.147) left irc: "Client exiting" johannesV (~johannes@M1567P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Client Exiting" reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~tamas@napalm.napnet.hu) left irc: jcater_ (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater kilo (~kg_kilo@fw.i-trade.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "When all else fails, read the instructions." ajmitch_ (~ajmitch@vodca.otago.ac.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (zi003469ei@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1f-100.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection kilo (~kg_kilo@fw.i-trade.hu) left irc: thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) jbailey (~jbailey@dragonfly.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client exiting" chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-162-87.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "sleeping" wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) jamest_ (foobar@adsl-65-71-169-183.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. holycow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) joined #gnuenterprise. wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client exiting" jamest_ (foobar@adsl-65-71-169-183.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jamest_ (foobar@adsl-64-216-107-88.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. sigh my primary workstation finally gave up the ghost lived to a ripe old age of under 6 months Action: jamest_ kicks the p.o.s. gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-162-87.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@dragonfly.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_ (foobar@adsl-64-216-107-88.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ajmitch_ (~ajmitch@vodca.otago.ac.nz) left irc: "Leaving" jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client exiting" bddebian (bddebian@pcp08545886pcs.lndsd101.pa.comcast.net) left irc: "Leaving" someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@dragonfly.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client exiting" chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) left irc: "leaving" chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Q: Given a "decent" budget, how long would it take to polish the UIs, and the AppServer to put into Large Company use? Incl. Concurrent updates of different entries in the same table, row-level implicit security (ie. col of Owner Group=YYY only YYY can see this row) someon: what is your definition of a decent budget? 25K - 35K? This is COMPLETELY hypothetical.... someon: it would help the progress, but not speed things up incredibly wendall911: What does the 911 signify? the number you can in case of emergency ;) someon: if you had a budget of 250K - 350K that would be a descent budget For that budget, we could afford to come up-to-date with our current ERP support contracts, and buy a STACK of new licences someon: 25K - 35K would represent one good programmer for maybe four months work tops someon: what is your current ERP? www.remedy.com ARSystem windows based? Nods, unfortunately. WinNT/MSSQL someon: yeah, most are Though it can be run on *nix/Oracle wendall911: Do you work for 911? someon: ? someon: you must not live in the US There has to be someone that works for 911. Someone has to answer the phones... ah Knows what 911 is. Not quite global though. AKA 112, 999, 000, etc. someon: no, it started several years ago because people that worked for me used my IM as an emergency hotline Ahhh someon: yeah, it is mostly a US thing Cool someon: it started as a joke, and just stuck someon: the think is, you'll probably have to wait for gnue to come along a bit farther if you have a very small budget.... IM as emerg hotline... kinda goes back to stuff I was talking about yesterday with jcater about notifications :) Nods. I'm not proficient in Python But would have to re-write all the ERP Apps in GNUe to be useful. someon: I did some consulting work awhile back where the people were interested in gnue. For what they wanted, I estimated about $200,000 in labor costs over 1-1/2 years Yup. That's kinda chump-change though. someon: agreed someon: Peoplesoft start at about $500,000 for their Vantive system I could see $200,000 in 6-8 months as a contracter (not me being a contractor, just what I've seen paid out) someon: yep someon: gnue will get there, it will just take some time...some large company may want to dump some money into it at some point, but who knows Action: wendall911 isn't sure if it has ever been approached Yeah... it's hard to place the size of the company I work for... 300-400 employees, $2M+ in assets... but tech crew totals 20 (?) tops, including tech management. someon: hmmm, mostly payroll then We have a huge user base though (we are basically an ASP) someon: any developers on the tech crew, or just support? 1 or 2 specialised developers, rest are various types of support Unix, Windows, WAN, Telephony, Application (Custom; x 2) someon: yeah, it's hard to make anything with that type of team, unless the 1 or 2 devs are very talented Yup. and divide the 20 by 7x24... actually probably more along the lines of extremely talented and experienced for an enterprise application someon: yeah, unless the ERP system can be wrapped into a package that you already sell and services sold based on it, it is extremely difficult to get companies to cough up any kind of cash No Kidding! someon: I don't blame them, cause they'd never make their money back...they would be better off using spreadsheets and email/fax/phone someon: hire somebody for $7/hr and let them bang away at it I posted some links yesterday or the day before that show the ERP we use currently use, and how the screen lays out.. if the co I work for could figure out a way to outsource me, they would someon: heh, that sucks Is life someon: companies are cheap, and development isn't. If they want something out of the box, then they shouldn't expect much. someon: if even a few companies would pull their heads out and realize if they could all throw around $25K into the pot. Get like 15-20 companies with similar needs, they could accomplish it Everything, including time-to-deploy has to be justified by a business-case... Well... company I work for is a little unusual, and very unique. someon: I had ten companies involved in the last consulting gig that I did, but they didn't want to spend even that kind of money someon: that's what everyone says, lol Though the desired software functions are relatively common, and could pretty much be Out-of-the-Box. someon: I always go through systems, just to realize that most are about 95% alike The co I work for is the only one of it's type in the country, perhaps even in the only one of its type in North America. someon: but the ERP needs are probably not uncommon Yup, I totally agree... ERP needs are probably no different than company X (fill in ANY company for X) I know that I couldn't talk my superiors into $250K. Even $35K would be pushing it. wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) holycow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) got netsplit. chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) got netsplit. nickr (nick@e-64-35-146-235.empnet.net) got netsplit. Vee (~mike@66.182.192.34) got netsplit. thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) got netsplit. ajmitch (~ajmitch@pop11-port95.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) got netsplit. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) got netsplit. someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) got netsplit. dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) got netsplit. havoc (~havoc@CPE-65-31-107-254.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. Stoke (~stoker@dpvc-141-149-254-50.buff.east.verizon.net) got netsplit. bigbrother (eggdrop@209.234.155.8) left #gnuenterprise. bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+n ' by wells.freenode.net -:#gnuenterprise- *** Notice -- TS for #gnuenterprise changed from 1077774598 to 1076821714 #gnuenterprise: mode change '+t ' by irc.freenode.net wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. holycow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) joined #gnuenterprise. thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@e-64-35-146-235.empnet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. havoc (~havoc@CPE-65-31-107-254.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~ajmitch@pop11-port95.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ts46v-07.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Stoke (~stoker@dpvc-141-149-254-50.buff.east.verizon.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee (~mike@66.182.192.34) joined #gnuenterprise. Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by !irc.freenode.net: Welcome to GNU Enterprise. svn anonymous access now available; svn co svn://svn.gnuenterprise.org/var/svn/gnue/trunk gnue --- Thu Feb 26 2004