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<reinhard> anybody awake?
<reinhard> i've installed sarge on my notebook and am trying to understand how sound works
<reinhard> i.e. what packages i have to install
<reinhard> i've installed all of gnome
<reinhard> but to start with,
<reinhard> if i try to access /dev/dsp, i get "no such device"
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<holycow> reinhard i'm just a noob so i cannot give you a thorough overview but:
<holycow> 1. install alsa
<holycow> 2. install any sound drivers you can find via apt / synaptic
<holycow> 3. install a mixer of any kind
<reinhard_> holycow: you know which package on debian?
<holycow> 4. remember that sound starts off as muted or low, you need to bump up the volume to hear sound if you still have problems after installing
<holycow> apt-get update
<holycow> apt-cache search alsa :)
<reinhard_> i get much stuff
<reinhard_> alsaplayer
<reinhard_> alsa-base
<reinhard_> alsa-modules-2.4.24*
<reinhard_> alsa-oss
<reinhard_> alsa-source
<reinhard_> alsa-utils
<reinhard_> alsamixergui
<holycow> i would installe base, m odules, oss, utils, mixer gui
<holycow> see howthat works
<holycow> you can always remove them later if it doesnt work
<reinhard_> holycow: thanks, will try
<holycow> note: i'm kinda helping you throw darts in the dark, no guarantees, k? 
<holycow> <-- just a noob here :)
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<reinhard> hmmm
<reinhard> when alsaconf doesn't find a driver for my soundcard
<reinhard> would that mean it's not supported?
<holycow> which modules did you install? do they match your cpu type?
<reinhard> do i have to install modules?
<reinhard> i got sound to run under woody
<reinhard> and i'm 99% sure i didn't install any extra modules
<reinhard> the problem is i can't find modules that match kernel 2.4.18
<holycow> well i had to install alsa-modules.2.4.24-1-k7 for my athlon, as those are the drivers
<reinhard> and did you have to update your kernel to 2.4.24?
<holycow> if sound on the lappy worked under woody it will work same under sarge for sure
<holycow> i did that manually, i didn't haveto
<holycow> albeit i'm using sid, not sarge
<reinhard> no, sorry, woody that worked was another pc
<holycow> ah okay
<holycow> yes you should install the appropriate alsa modules, they contain the drivers
<reinhard> but the modules are not available for 2.4.18 ?
<holycow> no those are just the modules i installed
<holycow> if you search your apt cache for alsa you will find similarly labeled modules
<holycow> up there you found 2.4.24?  there are no .18 modules?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> no .18, only .24
<holycow> :/ i wish i knew more about this stuff to be able to help you 
<holycow> thats all i've ever had to do to get it working on any system
<reinhard> well, that's actually what i'm after...
<reinhard> not getting it to work somehow, but understanding how it works
<reinhard> i really don't need sound on my notebook
<reinhard> but i am going to install some desktops for ppl that will want sound
<reinhard> and i don't want to ridicule myself there :)
<holycow> hehehe
<holycow> time to google
<holycow> go to tldp.org and look it up there, they have tutorials on everything
<reinhard> holycow: thanks for your time
<holycow> any time dude, if i had more knowledge i would gladly share it
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<reinhard> siesel: i had to fix another unicode issue but now everything seems to work ok
<reinhard> off for today - familiy day
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<siesel> ok :)
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<jamest> anyone know an easy way to create a passwd hash from python cross platform?
<jamest> ah
<jamest> i think i have something
<jamest> does this seem reasonable for simple hiding of a users password in a table field?
<jamest> >>> m = md5.new("mypass")
<jamest> >>> m.hexdigest()
<jamest> 'a029d0df84eb5549c641e04a9ef389e5'
<jamest> oh crap!
<jamest> i forgot to remove my password
<jamest> :)
<kilo> ah, you also use your dog's name as a password? 8-))
<jamest> :)
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<reinhard> ah btw
<reinhard> holycow: thanks again for your help re sound
<reinhard> in fact it was much easier even
<reinhard> in case you are interested:
<reinhard> you don't need alsa
<reinhard> i just had to install the correct kernel module for my soundcard
<holycow> :) ehehe
<holycow> really?
<holycow> what did you do?
<holycow> ah! there ya go :)
<holycow> *nod* cool
<reinhard> from what i read (if you are interested)
<reinhard> there is a lot of sound card drivers for linux (as normal modules)
<reinhard> that is called "oss"
<reinhard> then there is alsa that is wanting to replace all those drivers by a new, improved driver structure
<reinhard> gnome uses esd as a mixer (that is you have esd installed if you have gnome installed)
<reinhard> and esd can work with alsa as well as with oss
<holycow> *nod* i just install alsa by default, its never failed me yet
<holycow> *nod*
<reinhard> just wanted to share my insights :)
<holycow> *nod* appreciate it :)
<reinhard> there are so many projects in the field of sound that overlap each other
<reinhard> gstreamer, jack, esd, alsa, totem, xine...
<holycow> yeah thats the thing about open source
<holycow> you gain freedom
<holycow> but the cost is you must gain knowledge
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> and confusion :)
<holycow> well after knowledge there is no confusion left, :) 
<holycow> so far every time i solve a problem i notice how easy it is in retrospect in linxu
<holycow> linux
<holycow> where in windows the extra piece of knowledge only tells you to click ona pretty icon
<holycow> we can take this kind of knowledge and do really new things with it, almost immediately :)
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<jamest> anyone around that uses gnue schema
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<jcater> jamest: wassup?
<jamest> um
<jamest> lots :)
<jamest> i was wondering if the gsd files are supposed to define the entire system
<jcater> the appserver guys have been using it for their schemas iirc
<jamest> or if I can do one table per file yet still do ref integ
<jcater> we did the latter in gnue-sb
<jamest> cool
<jcater> to make it easier though
<jcater> we had one schema.gsd that <import>ed the individual ones
<jcater> that seemed to work well for us
<siesel> jcater: does it mean we can create a XXX_appserver_enabled.gsd which imports simple tables and contains appserver metadata for these tables?
<siesel> as that would allow to have a schema for 2 and one for 3-tier operation
<jcater> I don't follow what you're asking 100%
<jcater> but I think the answer is "yes"
<siesel> appserver needs entries for every field of a table before it can use the tables.
<siesel> that creates the problem, that the step from 2-tier to 3-tier isn't very easy
<siesel> although some parts can and will be automated, but some other decisions should be done by the schema designer
<siesel> I hope its 100% now.
<jamest> what's type="key" do?
<siesel> its a reference to another table
<siesel> through an appserver OID
<siesel> i.e. at the moment key ~ string(32)
<jamest> defaultwith="serial"?
<siesel> seems to be 32, but that's something reinhard and johannes have design
<siesel> ed
<jcater> jamest: defaultwith="serial" creates a sequence in postgres
<jcater> and defaults to sequence.nextval()
<jamest> ah, ok
<jamest> so we can't specify the sequence name?
<jcater> not atm
<jamest> ok, cool
<jcater> don't forget this is cross-db
<jamest> i know
<jamest> that's why i'm using it for po stuff
<jamest> :)
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<dneighbo> so appserver is more ojbect based?
<dneighbo> in that it has to have special tables/fields for each table/field for an application
Action: dneighbo is having pg_access like flashbacks :)\
<dneighbo> reinhard: you were smart to avoid ALSA :)
<siesel> dneighbo: please don't compare appserver and pg_access. It hurts.
<siesel> but yes, there are special datatables to hold type information, module assosiations and access right
<siesel> and procedure code 
<jamest> pg_access is evil
<jamest> appserver, like the rest of gnue, is only misunderstood
<siesel> :)
<jamest> siesel: 
<jamest> how do you do a foreign key def in schema?
<dneighbo> siesel: i didnt mean it quite that way
<dneighbo> i meant it as the "additional tables" only :)
<dneighbo> i am liking things i am seeing in appserver actually
<siesel> there is an example in gnue-common/utils/xml2sql/
<siesel> dneighbo: np. I just wanted to express/share my feelings about pg_access :)
<siesel> jamest: I paste a bit of it:
<siesel>          <constraints>
<siesel>               <constraint name="fk_restaurant_id" type="foreignkey">
<siesel>                   <constraintfield name="place"/>
<siesel>                   <constraintref name="id" table="restaurants"/>
<siesel>               </constraint>
<siesel>               <constraint name="idx_address_personid" type="unique">
<siesel>                   <constraintfield name="id"/>
<siesel>               </constraint>
<siesel>          </constraints>
<siesel> so its possible to define the constraint name, even if its only supported by postgresql IMHO :)
<siesel> we have some documentation about gsd format in there too. which probably have to be updated and moved somewhere else
<btami> siesel: and in firebird IIRC
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> i can't seem to get it to work
<jamest> in my users.gfd i have
<jamest> whoops, gotta go for a while
<jamest> i'll harass you later
<siesel> probably tomorow, as its quite late here, so I'll go to bed soon
<siesel> btami: fyi win32 driver is broken at the moment, but I hope to fix it until wednesday
<btami> siesel: ok, thx
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<reinhard> <dneighbo> i am liking things i am seeing in appserver actually
<reinhard> * tracebacks
<reinhard> * database errors
<reinhard> ...
<reinhard> ;-)
<reinhard> btw there were many changes in gnue-schema over the last 3 weeks
<reinhard> so everybody using gnue-schema in production *please* test if it still works as expected!
<reinhard> and the datatypes are documented in a technote
<reinhard> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/common/technotes/00012.txt
<reinhard> night all
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<jcater> if anyone's looking for gift ideas
<jcater> http://www.thnt.com/thnt/story/0,21282,916152,00.html
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<dneighbo> for the record...
<dneighbo> you want the barrel
<dneighbo> or just a commerative bottle?
<dneighbo> i.e. i could see buying a barrel for the 10th Year Anniversary of GNUe
<dneighbo> with a private label bottle for top ISVs 
<dneighbo> yeah thats the ticket 
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> sounds good
<jcater> and since I'm closest to lynchburg, tn
<jcater> I'll be happy to volunteer my house for storage
<dneighbo> roflmao
<dneighbo> we will send you down for that overnight stay
<dneighbo> and "taste test"
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<LuftHans> anyone awake?
<LuftHans> http://slashdot.org/articles/04/02/29/2115250.shtml
<LuftHans> please make sure GNUe gets registered :)
<wendall911> LuftHans: I decided to not register my projects
<wendall911> or my company
<wendall911> LuftHans: just government bs
<LuftHans> well, their trying to make the eGov conference something respectable
<LuftHans> and I want to see more gov't using Free Software
<derek> i registred
<derek> however i dont trust eGovOS at all
<derek> i.e. they do okay things but their leader has shown his true grits in the past
<LuftHans> do you have an opinion on how AZOTO should register?
<LuftHans> there's no N[PG]O option :(
<derek> nope
<derek> not sure how they should procede
<LuftHans> I'm thinking IT Vendor
<LuftHans> that wants info about past or current gov't projects, though
<LuftHans> maybe we shouldn't register since we're still showing as dissolved :(
<wendall911> They'll only give you work if you kiss their asses
<wendall911> and claim to be republican
<LuftHans> actually, I have projects we can be helping on, once we've gotten our paperwork straightened out
--- Mon Mar  1 2004