derek, who is their leader and what is the nature of his attitude? tony stanco i refuse to talk about it oh okay no problem ill google a bit thanks for the heads up im sure you could bait chilly into telling you how wonderful tony is ;) ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mr. willy! *ahem* :D hehe no just curious, anywhoo the beans will spill eventually how do you guys know that egovos.org aren't just a bunch of marketers? wendall911, that was my question its got the word gov on it but they aren't a gov't agency i dont see anything about the gov't actually particapating in something like this thats what i thought a gov't would never publish something like this without getting a full ear about fairness in the marketplace I don't buy it, looks like a scam me too smells funny Action: LuftHans doesn't let his browser connect to the smellovision port. hehehe :) wendall911: they are a bunch of marketers actually they are worse... they are a bunch of marketing lawyers :) heh btw: ny fair use protested their last event some guy in uk invented yet another smelling device, and my first thought was 'cool, how do i send a fart in an email then?' lol this was the group that invited microsoft to SPEAK and PRESENT at the OPEN SOURCE conference they held oh heh derek: yeah, sounds like they are on our side as they wanted them to share about "SHARED SOURCE" they are using open source for self promotion then? imho yes derek: one guy is the entire organization never trust a lawyer derek: well they should do Free Software because m$ is doing open source, kinda wendall911, really? ahahaha http://www.egovos.org/about the point NY Fair use was trying to point was why give m$ a mouthpiece at an opensource event wend: well, I can't say anything about that, can I derek? :) they have plenty of chances to bend ears aka Gold Digger so tony is a punter dont under estimate tony he is a smart guy derek, i don't exactly agree, however and has lots of influence dimas (~ds@195.218.177.46) joined #gnuenterprise. holycow: dont agree on what? i have yet to see ms rep speak and not bend the truth i'm sure, he worked fro the SEC that's like working for God himself in the business world anyway about not wanting to invite ms to an os meeting i think thats a healthy thing in and of it self you haveto get to understand the enemy before you can defeat it... although once you listen an watch ms you realize they aren't an enemy at all imho I'd invite them, everybody loves clowns...they make people laugh. ;) hahaha wendall exactly its kinda like building up an immmunity in an eco system you gotta introduce a virus first they do, like about 800 a month or so hahahaha :) well that kinda shoots my theory out of the water huh? by my theory win should be the most resilient os in history heh holycow: my point is this was an event to "educate" governments on open source ohhhhhh in my opinion m$ has no open source offerring okay in that case that makes sense therefore they have limited reason to speak on education of open source you want to control the setting, absolutely exactly normally i am against EXCLUDING HOWEVER microsoft has a large platform to stand on yes you are correct, i thought it was more of an expo kind of thing its not like they were excluding some small time vendor that would not have a say otherwise *nod* they can affor their platform them selves right right i am all for M$ PAYING to expo at Linux World Expo i thtink its silly me too but i am definitely not opposed to it if they want to spend their money there its up to them :) *nod* i agree, i see what you are saying to me this was more like inviting your local m$ rep to come demo server 2003 at your local LUG yes, what you are doing is diluting your message and negating the point of the event fundamentally, open source is about free software based around paid support ms is about selling software as product and no support derek: except there we could continuously knock it off the air with viruses :) It would be great for them to come demo 2003 they simply will never be in a position to help out by any stretch of the imagination everybody would go home saying..."geez, why would I want to run that crap" a new m$ install at work took 2 minutes to get infected with something... :) wendall911, whats demo 2k3? lufthans that beats my record mine took 8 minutes (22:11:07) derek: to come demo server 2003 at your local LUG hehehe refering to derek's comment fuck i just got on to get patched up and the fukin thing was infected before i could even download anything wendall, i really think that would be cool i am starting to come to see another way of viewing this whole thing ms and open source are not really competitors i think they will end up occupying completely independent niche markets i can even give an example of why i think so: currently ms takes any given market and slices it up into constituent pieces and sells a product in there you can come up with pretty much close linux based replacements in each category apt-get updates all of my machines :) the only thing in our sphere of things is that none of it is really packaged beyond suse, or redhat LuftHans, exactly my point debian makes creating workstations, servers, firewalls, you name it so easy you could repackage debian in a 1000 different ways and sell services supporting it, as most it service shops do with ms anyway my prediction is ms will end up with its own audience and oopen source with its holycow: exactly what I'm trying to get a few companies to do luft *nod* i'm doing it for my company here first once i have my products segmented out convincing companies we know is a cinch holycow: but we've got to end the data format monopolies you wont haveto replace the entire thing just bits and pieces when the company is ready and they already love our service, i cant keep the phone from ringing luft *nod* i agree bbias, pizza :) *nod* true #1 on my list would be to build an oopen office file format export plugin for ms office i wonder how much that would cost to do i'd personally put up 1k to do that doesn't it have xml export? no office 2k3, you need the groupware dealy to actually have xml export ah, they have it, but you have to purchase it seperately *nod* and only on 2k3 version lots of places still run 2k and 97 I thought it was in 2k oh well, got to get them all running OO.o :) hehehe :) well we are moving to open office for sure what i was thinking is buying one 2k3 licence with xml export and putting up a website where you can upload your word file, run it through office and have it spit out the xml file right back at you I recently had to move somewhat to OO.o. Kinda sucked because vim is so much handier :) yeah, but then you have to pay per IP to talk to it you haveto be smart to use vim tho :) hehe well not really so put up a web front end and only let the web front end talk to the m$ box :) the machine would only get receipts from one ip internall, which is my web server :) I've had good luck standardizing on RTF file sizes suck they wouldnt see it directly, just cue their files in the webserver, with something feeding it to office internally but MS Office and OpenOffice seem to cooperate better w/that excel / oo conversions suck hard jc *nod* except you loose formatting i agree formatting shouldnt be an issue but for novices it is and word files w/frames instead of text boxes suck hard too i would say they suck for complicated stuff it's retained all my weird formatting in rtf and stuff where one uses ms particular non conformist features holycow: biggest issue I have is when users have spreadsheets that refer to other spreadsheets i make all our people do it wysiwy if a table in excel is wyswyg its going to go back and forth fine in my experience on 1.1 *nod* same here i just made someone in the office stop embedding excel sheets which, unfortunately for me, my accounting department depends on that in it self is evil as a practice :) heh I've converted my entire office to openoffice though except accounting jcater: i am liking 1.1 a lot *nod* you have? sweet and I gave up on it well there is no reason to convert everyone i think it beats excel out of the box at this point OOo pisses me off a lot though BUT I like it as well i mean if something only runs on windows, fine why not? im not having to do conversions back to excel i like oo a lot better im LOVING the pdf features it basically does what i tell it to do did a draw presentation with several embeded spreadsheets email as pdf attachment is a GOD SEND worked great it doesnt think for me or have weird assumptions about how tools should behave derek: one of my biggest problems w/oocalc (other than the file linking stuff) derek exactly derek: pdf was way overdue is most of my older users were trained on Lotus =+A1+A2 that will kick your ass :) if you have lotus folks i'm having all staff send docs in pdf when emailing to govt or outside agencies and excel accepted lotus style formules oocalc does not +A1+A2 no it didnt actually holycow: why is that? jcater, heh neat in Excel --> formula it "back ported them" holycow: i save as M$ docs and send them all the time in oocalc --> text without problems i.e. i do not believe that ms excel originally supported +A1+A2 either derek: well, regardless retains formatting and guarantees layout to remain the same my users were trained in Lotus but i get your point excel works oo doesn't and from users pov i am lucky my #1 power excel user and the guy that gives money out oo is broken :) he didnt like lotus BUT for my new users they have no problem w/OpenOffice and isnt trained on it... his view is for the money savings they can re learn :) but ppl who have been using Word or Excel for several years jcater, see i created some fairly large multiple page spreadsheet in open office which is hilarious i frankly dont see the problem get really frustrated in OO it's not that it doesn't do what they need the issue i find mostly is that people use non essential features of excel but OO makes little effort to cater to MS Office users when they should just be making simple tables and forms wrt keeping interface somewhat familiar oh i agree what i am doing regarding that is puting up a website for jsut in time learning basically a wiki with tutorials from a to z jcater: OO.o was looking for doc suggestions. try suggesting they come up w/ Lotus->OO.o training/docs and then a section where people can store their own cheat sheet thats all our users seems to need is a cheat sheet that goes for ms office and oo For a 1.x product though OpenOffice rocks for a drop-in replacement for Word/Excel it can be painful :) (in training) BTW, are GNUe debs somewhat current? um we are doing prereleases this past week I'd wait a week if you could nothing on debian is current LuftHans :) hehehe and you'll likely have cuyrrent jcater: we can but ajmitch can better tell you the status of debs he's taking over packaging from jbailey we're getting ready to burn a new set of Knoppix CDs ( actually probably morphix this time ) and GNUe is one of the apps I want to add in terms of the overal discussion, i must say that you guys are really creating a stupendous product right now we run notes/domino domino is basically gnue with a twist not sure if jbailey has uploaded the debs I sent him recently to fix packaging bugs for those not familiar, albeit i bet everyone has a notes horror story :) I've had the pleasure of not using domino ever heh its really a great server terrible client i can replace the email portion no problem but i need a forms based engine to replace the real domino backend i think you guys are doing great :) someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client exiting" thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. morning gnuers wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) left irc: "Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/" hello thierry johannesV (~johannes@M1555P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. kilo (~kilo@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Remote closed the connection someon (~some1@h24-81-151-173.vf.shawcable.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) got netsplit. dcmwai_ (~dcmwai@219.95.58.147) got netsplit. dcmwai_ (~dcmwai@219.95.58.147) returned to #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) returned to #gnuenterprise. kilo (~kilo@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) left irc: Client Quit lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard_ (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 111 (Connection refused) btami (~btami@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: "Leaving" holycow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) holycow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: reinhard_ -> reinhard lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) dsmith (vfaauzyxed@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1f-100.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. mdupont (~mdupont@pD951B834.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all jamest (~jamest@gw.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (~jan@61-216-93-154.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. holycow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) left irc: "Leaving" lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) joined #gnuenterprise. lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) left irc: Client Quit lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) joined #gnuenterprise. lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) left #gnuenterprise. lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) joined #gnuenterprise. lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) left irc: Client Quit lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) joined #gnuenterprise. lxf (~agus_tea@202.73.120.151) left irc: Client Quit siesel (~jan@61-216-93-154.HINET-IP.hinet.net) left irc: "Client exiting" wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest, jcater: are you ok with building -pre2 today? I suppose so hi all dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi mdupont i have been playing with the gnome-blog it is written in xmlrpc, i wonder if it uses the same python xmlrpc bindings? check out my post here : lient for postnuke available http://community.sure-swap.biz/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=76&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 reinhard: sure mdupont: can't you just download and look at what libs it uses derek (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jcater: shall i submit the prerelease for forms and reports, too? pre2 � pre2 ? sure it seems that you still have recursive-include in the MANIFEST.in there reinhard: when you guys are finished, I plan on starting a Portage script for Gentoo...don't know how much time i'll have to truely maintain it, but I'll get the ball rolling anyway which means that .svn directories go into the release wendall911: it would be *great* if you could try it with the prerelease and tell us if you had any issues reinhard: sure thing great reinhard: have it this week sometime? reinhard: or available? for common and appserver, available for 1 minute now :) :) jcater: did you notice that your tarballs have .svn dirs in them? hmm Action: wendall911 prays to the build script gods for reinhard I blame it on jamest i always miss .cvsignore files myself shall i adjust the MANIFST.in files? that'd be great the problem is we can't use recursive-include any more :( hmm that sucks a lot siesel (~jan@61-216-93-154.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ? jamest: what is your question? how is desired encoding for report could be set? dimas: it probably should be textEncoding under [reports] in gnue.conf reinhard: trying... reinhard: thanks, at least it shows uo in xml header :) jbailey (~jbailey@dragonfly.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. mdupont: gnu-rpc contains the same xmlrpc protocol as gnome-blogger uses. (xmlrpc.pw_xmlrpc) siesel, cool! i wuz thinking that it might be a good place to use G.E. G.E. ? gnu enterproise cause it has a nice screen painter and all might be a good tool for making xmlrpc clients :) what do you think? cool. never thought of calling it G.E. well it is shorter than GNUE hmmm, depends on the client. if just xmlrpc is needed, its overhead well but if you need multiple protocols or remote objects, gnue-common's rpc code should be your choice i want to use soap or xmlrpc exchangeable? well, i have different servers postnuke uses my modified blog interface gforge has a soap interface (php|e)gw use soap or xmlrpc i have a another question : yes how hard is it to wrap an existing python application with G.E.? easy especially if you just do the client side have a look at http://ajmitch.dhis.org/~ajmitch/gcomm/x227.html yeah i mean as a smart client or as a way to generate xmlrpc stubs for a database model ********************************* -pre2 is out ********************************* please test ok for the client? from cvs? http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases.php reinhard, in that example from ajmitch, do i have to write all of the code, just the idl or just the xml? mdupont: i have no idea haven't looked at that example reinhard: I have to fix win32 first, and hope to test appserver and reports next next week == ? you mean until 7 mar or until 14 mar? sorry reinhard siesel, in that example from ajmitch, mdupont: you don't need to provide a grpc file (xml) just write the commands and it will work (look below at Example Client) i see thanks reinhard: I don't have a time frame. next == after fixing win32 :) as win32 doesn't start for me siesel: ok at the moment I just dunno, if I should continue to use vmware (sloW, slow + slow) or switch to my "beloved" WinXP it probably depends on the amount of stuff to fix :) what is broken under win32? unicode transition stuff :( ah ok this should get fixed anyway IMHO yep. reinhard: I grab the pre-release files, will test later today wendall911: thanks siesel, i will try that this week on the other hand i have a python app cwm that i want to wrap should i use GE for that? it is a command like program that takes files as input or stdin for setting up an app server you can use it for that too, as you don't need to learn a new interface then and because you can use gnue-commons powerfull command line parsing etc. functions johannesV (~johannes@M1555P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Client Exiting" reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left #gnuenterprise ("Don't believe in miracles -- rely on them."). reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: about the procedure stuff