wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) left irc: "Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/" chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) left irc: "leaving" chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. bddebian (~bddebian@ip68-4-154-50.oc.oc.cox.net) left irc: "Client exiting" chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client exiting"). ajmitch_ (~ajmitch@202.89.56.151) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) holy_cow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) joined #gnuenterprise. xet7 (~xet7@ua174d91.elisa.omakaista.fi) joined #gnuenterprise. holycow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) left irc: Connection timed out xet7 (~xet7@ua174d91.elisa.omakaista.fi) left irc: "Lähdössä" thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) joined #gnuenterprise. gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-165-244.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (foobar@adsl-66-142-221-144.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. thierry (~thierry@AStrasbourg-251-1-1-7.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: "Client exiting" holy_cow (~rtaylor@24.86.227.162) left irc: "Leaving" reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: you got a second? yep I have some stuff to show off http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/test-gnue/tools/ http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/test-gnue/tools/forms/ http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/test-gnue/tools/forms/0.5.2/ http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/test-gnue/tools/forms/docs/faq.php this *entire* section is created from the each tool's README, NEWS, FAQ, and INSTALL files from svn. How's that for automated? :) (Descriptions, versions, etc) (I'm have more stuff to add, and a few more things I need to do to make it robust, but I think it's a good start) this is just great fwiw, the first page pulls the first paragraph out of README's Introduction section the full tool page pulls the entire Introduction section just found that out :) this imposes a few constraints on all those files but not much (keeps them standard too) this is very ok just because of the standardization it forces yeah exactly what you say :) sections other than Introduction have no special meaning? no ok I am thinking of pulling out a Dependencies section from INSTALL and listing each product's dependencies that way might be a good idea in the README-Introduction for e.g. GNUe-Reports, you make every occurance of the text "GNUe Reports" a link, correct? yes you could also consider making every occurance of "foreign" package names a link to that package, too on the tool's section, it does "GNUe Navigator is a menuing system for GNUe Forms" oh oops, I need to change that description :) fwiw, that's one of the things I need to improve i see as if you notice on that tools/forms/ page appserver and navigator are links reports is not it's because in the README file, it's GNUE\nReports oh hehe I'm using a simple .replace() but need to change that to a regex so for example GNUe AppServer is made a link just as well as GNUe Application Server ? yes really cool it's not perfect, as we have to be careful to refer to AppServer as either and i just noticed the thumbnail-like picture on the forms page GNUe AppServer and GNUe Application Server not GNUe App Server in the other tool that's ok 's files we should not use too many different words for the same tool anyway again i think this is great also on svn update i saw some new files like create-release-announcement which at least sound very good from the name :) bbl fwiw, in each tool's __init__.py file, there are two variables one for the package name and one for the full name appserver has GNUe-AppServer and "GNUe Application Server" that's how this knows what to substitute jcater: ok jcater: that nearly sounds like new tools would integrate themselves into the web page automatically ############################################################ # This should contain a list of all tools to publish ALL_TOOLS = [ 'forms','reports','appserver','navigator', 'designer','integrator', 'common' ] ############################################################ that's it that's the only reference to any tool in my scripts I can add "pos" and "dbtools" to that list and they'll be added to the site and it warns you as it processes each tool if, f.e, it doesn't have a FAQ or the README has no Introduction jcater: be careful, you're making things too easy on yourself ;) jcater: great wendall911: I'm about as lazy as they come just great jcater: same here my webserver has several admin scripts for the same reason as i'm working on the translation structure reinhard: one things that always bothers me about us (GNUe) is that we are active and have kickass tools but you'd never know either of those by looking at our site as soon as i'm done every tool will have a po/ directory with a Makefile in there jcater: I disagree not that we haven't tried I mean, when psu was helping us he spent a *lot* of time maintaining that site jcater: the information on the site kicks serious ass if you think it would make sense and it still managed to stay out of date the Makefile could create a STATISTICS file there on "make" with translations statistics like: de: 120 messages translated, 45 messages untranslated oooo that was on my list of things to ask about it: 110 messages translated, 55 messages untranslated etc if there was some way I could get from the po/ stuff a list of translations could attract translators for the website I like this a lot ok also the way my scripts work there is a gnue/www/releases/release-files/ directory if I want to read form's README my script first looks fo r release-files/README.forms if not there, then looks for gnue-forms/README jcater: I looked at the site 6 months ago. It makes you really take a look. The materials are presented professionally and really show you guys have class. It was enough to get me to download and install. Installs are simple. It's an impressive piece of work. and I figure our release script can copy the "released" files into that directory jcater: gotcha so we don't have to worry about the website listing information specific to the svn versions jcater: daily, weekly announcements could work for supplementing feature information with very little work jcater: so we only really have to actually release more often ;-) reinhard: well, it's such a pain to release now it's gotten better w/the last few releases but it still takes time we should try to release more often but, um, history speaks differently :) jcater: the idea w/ release-files is great and it could be that for some kinds of information, even both variants are interesting like translation statistics for current release translation statistics for development version or NEWS from last release and NEWS from the development version (== features you can expect in the next release) == features you have to download svn if you want them so what all do we want for each tool (aside from what I have) I need to work in docs feature plans translations available screenshots pointer directly to the bugs screen for that tool dependencies ... ? hmmm I've been reading http://www.gnu.org/server/standards/README.editors.html and I wonder if we wouldn't be better off keeping our full site only on gnuenterprise.org and having my script generate a home page and pages for each tool in the form of http://www.gnu.org/boilerplate.html but keep it at just that... a home page and intro pages for each tool as it's going to be nearly impossible to adhere to http://www.gnu.org/server/standards/README.editors.html otherwise (which we currently don't do w/what's on their site) siesel (~jan@218-162-230-213.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: cool stuff can you add some website release info to every generated page? ? jcarter: have you considered a wiki? like: "This page was generated on 7-3-2004 and represents the latest developments present in GNUe svn" dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. "... created automaticly by gnue release scripts..." wendall911: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/twiki/ and http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/test-web/images/b_wiki.png so, yes I have :) I'm just having a hard time figuring out how to initially log in as an admin on twiki jcater: i don't think they take the boilerplate too serious jcater: have you ever looked at the hurd page? :) no http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd ah, wow jcater: heh, we just setup mediawiki jcater: having some issues figuring it out as well well, the cool thing about the way I'm doing it, is layout and style is all css so I could, if we wanted, make the site look like their crap err, I mean, standard also, another cool thing my sites are degrading very well c.f., lynx http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/test-gnue/tools/forms/ Action: jcater isn't gloating, but is just excited :) jcater: this is an example of a po/STATISTICS file: de: 62 translated messages, 21 fuzzy translations, 231 untranslated messages. es_MX: 142 translated messages, 37 fuzzy translations, 136 untranslated messages. hu: 37 translated messages, 15 fuzzy translations, 262 untranslated messages. lt: 104 translated messages, 31 fuzzy translations, 179 untranslated messages. ru: 0 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 313 untranslated messages. -- this represents the current state of common btw is that parseable enough for you? cool yes btw a "fuzzy translation" is a translation ok, I was going to ask which refers to an older version and there were minor changes in the text so the translation is not up to date but it is still active sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sjc (~sjc@cpc2-seve3-4-0-cust112.popl.cable.ntl.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client exiting"). but if you want to show % translated i would cout it as "not translated" ok will do dneighbo (~dneighbo@ip68-109-180-32.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Connection timed out is there a list of what all the codes stand for somewhere? yes. its somewhere in the isofiles package one second oops: iso-codes.deb ah, nice wendall911 (~wendallc@wendallc.icehouse.net) left irc: "Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/" in /usr/share/iso-codes/iso_639.tab you get the language code like "de","en" in the third row and the english name in the fourth language codes can be xx or xx_XX where xx is always a language and XX is optional and can be a country for example es is spanish es_ES is spanish like it's spoken in spain es_MX is spanish as it's spoken in mexico the country code can be found in /usr/share/iso-codes/iso_3166_1.tab reinhard: btw. did you know if gettext cares for other attributes like encoding too? siesel: which encoding? as LC_ALL can f.e. be de_DE.iso8559-1 or de_DE.utf-8 yes it does LANG=de gacvs produces different output than LANG=de.UTF-8 gacvs bbl (shuh des manitu) schuh :) viel spass :) siesel: sorry, it doesn't i did that myself gettext returns the encoding that is used in the po file i had to use ugettext().encode(encoding) now really off :) nickr (nick@e-64-35-146-235.empnet.net) left irc: "Lost terminal" important is, that f.e. the utf-8 encoding setting can fall back to the iso8859-1 one I hope that works :) nickr (nick@e-64-35-146-235.empnet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: do we plan to move mailing lists to ash? Or is http://lists.gnue.org/mailman/listinfo old stuff we haven't really talked about moving them err, that's old stuff sigh I have no access to gnue.org to fix that :-/ Action: jcater really wants gnue.org and gnuenterprise.org to point to same machine yeah, would be good. webpage loading would become faster too :) i want that too hey, seems gnue mailing lists are recovering. I got one commit mail from thursday some seconds ago. ;) siesel (~jan@218-162-230-213.HINET-IP.hinet.net) left irc: "Client exiting" jcater: help.... Action: dneighbo_ desperately needs good beef rib recipe :) er bbq beef rib recipe Nick change: dneighbo_ -> derek Action: derek doesnt want them on the same box not until i figure out what i want to do with mail Action: derek has 10,000 pieces of mail delivered to gnue.org a day so until someone is willing to pony up admin time so i dont lose mail it aint gonna happen :) Action: derek is all for having it happen, I just dont have a really big excitement in hijacking all my mail :) also are we severing all ties to FSF? as we really were supposed to use their web server, mail services and cvs repository at this point we are not using cvs (savannah) and sounds as if we are ditching web services and possibly mail services? for the record i am not "against" it as the level of service has been fairly sucky just asking derek: install spamassassin we can probably get that down from 10k to 100 I don't really have any good recipes for beef ribs we have some outstanding sauces here in town we can buy plus, I usually let other people do the rib cooking (a lot of ppl around here pride themselves on their ability, so I'm not going to rock the boat by trying to compete :) :) jcater: i have spam assassin and it does get my inbox down but im saying that 10k comes through that has to be filtered Action: derek needs to talk to jade and see what it will take we actually have new imap services up and running and its on the "list" to migrate me over to that server if its causing issues i can accelerate that time line I'm after web services so if nothing else we can point gnue.org to ash but leave MX records alone that could probably happen pretty quickly reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) derek: anything to accelerate that would be great as the only reasson we've held off on merging is your mail reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. so fix it you slacker! ;) the only thing in gnue that is allowed to take forever is our devel timeline chillywilly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~tamas@napalm.napnet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. marcello (~marcello@adsl-209-109.38-151.net24.it) joined #gnuenterprise. gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-165-244.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) left #gnuenterprise. marcello (~marcello@adsl-209-109.38-151.net24.it) left irc: Remote closed the connection btami (~tamas@napalm.napnet.hu) left irc: ogger (~ogger@57.Red-213-96-148.pooles.rima-tde.net) left irc: "Leaving" ogger (~ogger@57.Red-213-96-148.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: my bad i didnt see the roadmap... yeah thats it i would say smart remark about it not being in DCL but i am sure it is I think it is, actually :)= yeah i used that line on you last time so there is one chillywilly: what is the name of the LUG you go to? phew ********************************************* the translation reorganization is committed please after svn update everybody run setup-cvs.py in case of problems please report to me thanks ********************************************* jcater: all tools that actually *have* translations now have a file po/STATISTICS that is part of the release tarball *and* gets generated on setup-cvs.py ah yeah and you *must* have gettext installed to run setup-cvs.py from now on ogger (~ogger@57.Red-213-96-148.pooles.rima-tde.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection is gettext installed by default? err, I mean on a normal system? or do we need to apt-get install gettext? Action: jcater hasn't looked yet jcater: i think you have to apt-get install it in case you didn't yet ah, already installed on my system good sign as I would not have manually installed it i think there's not many packages you can compile without gettext installed yeah, that's what I was thinking and (for the record) we will include all gettext-generated files in the release tarball so to install from release, you don't need gettext just to run svn version, install from svn (snapshot) and to make releases ok seems reasonable hmm reasonable? thats not acceptable as soon as we start being reasonable... we might even be acceptable and well thats just not acceptable derek: lol Action: reinhard bets derek hasn't installed gettext ;-) ogger (~ogger@57.Red-213-96-148.pooles.rima-tde.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: reinhard is really tired now night all reinhard (~reinhard@M1250P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "When all else fails, read the instructions." l8r err derek: best I can tell, gettext is required on even the basic debian installs actually i think i have gettext i was just trying to be funny I know but was just clarifying as that was my first thought "am I going to have to install something else" not that it's a big deal if I did oh so now you are saying... lets be like gnucash :) re: lots of dependencies notes: that is not a slam on gnucash they are just the free software product most picked on for high dependency count but, but, but it's only a requirement for the person building source packages not the end user Action: jcater thwaps derek Action: jcater thwaps chillywilly, too just for old time's sake gsoti_away (~gsoti@adsl-68-72-165-244.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: do you read the gnucash list? chillywi1ly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywi1ly (~danielb@CPE-24-167-201-211.wi.rr.com) left irc: Client Quit Action: chillywilly looks at jcater then shrugs derek: no, not anymore I think I'm subscribed yeah, I'm subscribed and am overdue in deleting them all Action: chillywilly just lets the mail pile up in the IMAP account Action: chillywilly is messy chillywilly: you still here? if so do you know a jerry davis from MLUG? yes and yes sorta anyway I don't go to the LUG much he's a perl nut I think he started some perl mongers group can't say much for that ;) jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-071-147.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "sleep" --- Mon Mar 8 2004