Nah. Just one more thing to remember to install... FORD's A-Class was assigned in 88. That's a while. :) i just love that gt detroit is finally starting to make some exciting vehicles now they just haveto translate that into cheapie production vehicles where kids will get excited about modding them that should revitalize a few brands Actually there's instructions out there for Modding the Focus ZX5 to put it over 500HP. Bolt on Mods mostly, with the exception of the Nitro. hi y'all hi and bye *** jcater has quit IRC *** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise * icltlfatppl is away: must have caffine *** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise *** someon has quit IRC *** GNUe759 has joined #gnuenterprise *** holycow has quit IRC *** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise *** kingpin2k has quit IRC *** havoc has quit IRC *** Vee has quit IRC *** GNUe474 has joined #gnuenterprise *** GNUe474 has left #gnuenterprise *** btami has joined #gnuenterprise *** havoc has joined #gnuenterprise *** Vee has joined #gnuenterprise *** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise *** Amorphous has joined #gnuenterprise reinhard: is it a bad idea to include a DROP TABLE command when generating SSQL scripts from GSDs? i'm not sure generally, i don't like potentially destructive actions in automated runs *** Morphous has quit IRC in the case of appserver sample database, when we regenerate the database again and again i think tables could be dropped kilo: why not 'dropdb gnue' and recreate it ... ? since this is much faster than deleting the tables :) that is a way also, but why do that manually * kilo is lazy today hmm you can integrate it into 'setup-pgsql.sh' or 'setup-interbase.sh' ... the clue with this is you have to do deletion manually and you cannot destroy data 'accidentally' i see, i see. so i got to get a coffee to kickstart me :) btw you never delete anything accidentally, you just change your mind during the delete operation 8-))) haha *** chillywilly has quit IRC *lol* johannesV: classrepo...gfd 2nd page 10 rows with module dropdown is that dropdown required? yes it is and yes, we are aware that you cannot navigate while your cursor is in a dropdown why? this is a bug in forms IMHO or even more i would say the key binding for navigation is well... unsmart using cursor keys for record navigation might have been a not so good idea reinhard: using cursor keys for navigation also is a problem when using multiline-edits (like procedure-code entry) it's not possible to move between lines using the cursor key hmmm, using wx i can navigate w/ cursor keys when focus is in a dropdown... hmmm you mean you can scroll up and down in the "grid"? in normal entries with cursor keys you can navigate to next/previous record in a dropdown, with cursor keys you usually select another item from the list but don't change records *** Vee has quit IRC *** derek has quit IRC *** ogger has quit IRC *** ogger has joined #gnuenterprise *** derek has joined #gnuenterprise *** Vee has joined #gnuenterprise *** derek has quit IRC *** ogger has quit IRC *** Vee has quit IRC *** Vee has joined #gnuenterprise *** derek has joined #gnuenterprise *** ogger has joined #gnuenterprise *** SachaS has quit IRC reinhard: yes, can step up/down in the grid *** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise *** thierry has quit IRC *** thierry_ has joined #gnuenterprise hi reinhard, johannesV, all will try the find() procedure. *** ogger has quit IRC *** derek has quit IRC *** Vee has quit IRC hi SachaS *** Vee has joined #gnuenterprise *** derek has joined #gnuenterprise *** ogger has joined #gnuenterprise hi kilo. just learned that you are from Liechtenstein *** ogger has quit IRC *** derek has quit IRC *** Vee has quit IRC *** dcmwai|AWAY has quit IRC *** thierry_ has quit IRC *** btami has quit IRC *** reinhard has quit IRC *** ogger has joined #gnuenterprise *** derek has joined #gnuenterprise *** Vee has joined #gnuenterprise *** thierry_ has joined #gnuenterprise *** btami has joined #gnuenterprise *** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise *** dcmwai|AWAY has joined #gnuenterprise kilo are you reading the logs? kilo where are you from? yes Hungary i remember Vaduz, it IS a nice place thank you. been there... er.... some time ago... in 1992... unfortuantely, I have not been to Hungary. have to run for lunch because we are hungry *** ogger has quit IRC *** derek has quit IRC *** Vee has quit IRC *** Vee has joined #gnuenterprise *** derek has joined #gnuenterprise *** ogger has joined #gnuenterprise *** dneighbo has joined #gnuenterprise *** derek has quit IRC *** Sacha has joined #gnuenterprise *** Morphous has joined #gnuenterprise cyas *** Sacha has quit IRC *** dimas has joined #gnuenterprise *** Amorphous has quit IRC hi everyone. when I have a procedure which is longer than the textbox in classrepository.gfd it has a flicker effect. Are you experiencing the same? reinhard or johannesV: can a procdure return a value yet? SachaS: nope ok. received "Error occured during method invokation: unsubscriptable object" when I tried to return a value. SachaS: yes, flickering, or better, behaves very strange how are you today reinhard? SachaS: that's exactly what i'm working at the moment fine, thanks although not gnue'ing very much today kilo so you have the same? I also noticed, that the scroll down and scroll up still belongs to the form, which scrolls up and down in the results. rather trying to earn some money :) so do i :) what? :) no gnue'ing? :) * johannesV running for some coffee maybe later tonight? SachaS: no, trying to earn some money maybe yes ok. came pretty far last night with the "find" procedure. and this morning I checked and the "find" procedure is working. I still can do some more procedures, but it would be nice if they could return a value ;) well. so maybe chat to you later today or tonight. *** reinhard has quit IRC *** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise *** jamest has joined #gnuenterprise *** btami has quit IRC *** kilo has quit IRC *** chillywilly has joined #gnuenterprise reinhard: do you knwo where siesel is? somehow I am missing him ;) no haven't seen him quite for a while ok. thanks reinhard, are you going to the dornbirner messe? probably not i heard there is good food ;) ok. better do some coding ;) reinhard, have you heard of the io-market.com company here in liechtenstein? they are providing market places ... apparently no never ok *** dsmith has joined #gnuenterprise *** dsmith has quit IRC *** dsmith has joined #gnuenterprise reinhard: you asked why I have a own ID in a business class and am not using the gnue_id. i was thinking, that I would introduce a custom made ID. Eventhough I do not have an algorithm how to calculate one, but thats not important. is your own id a meaningful value or just a kind of row-id? i.e. is the value important for the user? (like a intem number, order number, etc) s/intem/item/ the idea is, that it is meaningful ok then it's ok to not use the gnue_id yes. but then you should not use it for references that is you should only have that field in the inventory class but not in other classes that reference the inventory class which field are you talking about? gnue_id or inventory_itemId ? the itemId question: does each class need a id property which belongs to the gnue module? yes ok. it's the primary key of the table ok and it's values are autogenerated by appserver *** dimas has quit IRC jbailey: you here? *** sjc has joined #gnuenterprise reinhard: dont think i understand. i have module "masterdata" with class "customer" the class customer has an id of gnue masterdata_customer.gnue_id right? the class customer also has a customerId of masterdata: reinhard: Yup. masterdata_customer.customerId right? so i have a modules "sales" with a class "customerOrder" the class customerOrder has a id of gnue sales_customerOrder.gnue_id jbailey: any chance we can get our stuff into sid? jbailey: people already start to talk about weak freezes of sarge the class customerOrder has a reference to the masterdata_customer class. the reference is called customerId SachaS: no, the reference would for example be called "customer" or "buyer" that is masterdatat_customerOrder.masterdata_buyer (and we can skip the "masterdata" in our explanations) class customerOrder belongs to sales module (in my example) ah ok then it would be sales_customerOrder.sales_buyer *** dsmith has quit IRC yes. in the table and of what type would that property buyer be? in the classrepository.gfd form? the sales_buyer would contain a gnue_id of the customer table in the classrepository.gfd, it would be of type maasterdata_customer masterdata_customer masterdata_customer yep ok. so it allways goes throught the gnue_id through even yes ok. and in any procedure of customerOrder self is the current order yes. and you can acess the customer with myCustomer = self.buyer print myCustomer.name etc. you can even do print self.buyer.name well you would have to print self.buyer.masterdata_name because "name" is defined outside the sales module but then the sales_customerOrder.customer actually references the gnue_id of customer and not "my custom" customerId of customer. yes if you want to get the cuostomerId ok. is that a problem? you say print self.buyer.masterdata_customerId instead of self.customerId the advantage of this is you might at some point in time want to reorganize your customerId's if they are only in the customer table you can even change them for existing customers w/o problems if you have your customer id's spread around many tables changing the customer id of existing customers becomes very hard wait. print self.buyer.masterdata_customerId self.buyer is the customer business object yes then .masterdata_customerId .... I dont get why we need masterdata there ... if we are in a procedure that is defined in the sales module then we need to fully qualify all names that are outside the sales module dah! ok. gotcha again because we are in a sales procedure! yep carzy! makes your head spin! at least mine ;) :) * SachaS needs time to think there is no difference (in the notation) between properties and procedures (currently without parameters) self.buyer.masterdata_customerId can be a property as well as a procedure .... no procedures have a () after them foo.bar is a property foo.bar() is a procedure although i personally prefer foo.bar () both works ok, was confusing with ruby. reinhard: 'kay. I really wish ajmitch was in my timezone, it would make sponsoring his packages much easier. jbailey: thanks *** jcater has joined #gnuenterprise *** dsmith has joined #gnuenterprise reinhard: So generally, business objects are referenced by their gnue_id property. It is then up to the user to access the business objects properties, such as their own, custom made, IDs. ok. i think i understand. my reference names, such as customerId or inventoryId are misleading and I might change them to customer and inventory. because, they do not "hold" my custom made ID's, but are actually gnue_id's. what does that mean? when I have a customerOrder record in the database, I have a record which references GNUe APPSERVER specific ID's to the other busienss objects. maybe there is the fine line when one has to stop thinking of how it is realised behind the scene (with relational database tables), but use business objects, more like objects in a object oriented programming language this, of course, depends who looks at it. *** kingpin2k has joined #gnuenterprise me, as a gnue appserver application developer, should rather think of business objects, and not care about tables and stuff. :) * SachaS goes and changes business class property names *** kingpin2k has quit IRC SachaS: the target would be that you "can" think in objects if you want that is in your procedure you can imagine that like self.name is a string and self.amount would be a number that self.customer is a customer not an id or a reference or whatever self.customer is a customer yes *** wendall911 has joined #gnuenterprise oh damn. calling these things "business objects" leads (like me) some to want to think in objects. that's the fascinating thing about appserver that you even *can* think in objects its like some neurons in the brain made a (wrong) connection amazing how it still buzzes me i changed the names in the class repositories, to not mention ID's, to make it more OO now i try to edit a .gfd file ;) ok :) should not be hard bbl SachaS: arer you documenting this? as i have a crew that will need to get up to speed on appserver soon does anyone know if btami has current windows packaging? derek yes, i am cool jcater: you here? if so speak up so we can get gnue.org moved to ash or jamest * jcater jumps up and down here! here! :) okay should be no problem to move everything, cept the MX records i.e. i dont have time to offload mail right now please email jade as he had a few questions about what you might need to setup in apache to make things work on your side over the next month or so i will try to migrate all my mail off onto our new servers at lcg jcater: did you notice that epydoc generation last worked on sunday? ok rm-away: sigh no then will just need to do some mail forward entries on ash and can move the MX records as well jcater: do you have a problem with me adding a link to GNUe Developer Blog on the website was going to put by community wiki might hold off and look at installing moveable type on ash instead (unless you want to) then can have nicely integrated rm-away: might need another tip, maybe later, when you are back. also i think i would like to move GNUe-SB under the Sub Projects heading as i cant update savannah really anymore w/o effort derek: is that you? is what me? sick kid so im home today but i would get used to seeing me a lot again.... as i think we are going to use GNU Enterprise for new budget system it is you!?!?!? so will have paid time to "gnue" it is me well, with the talk of moving the mail to/from ash i mean, it's only been a few years since we set ash up :) *cough* 4 *cough* i have offerred several times just never good timing i'm just giving you shit when i was ready ash wasnt and vice versa jcater: did you fix this fix? svn co svn://svn.gnuenteprise.org/var/svn/gnue/trunk gnueto replace withsvn co svn://svn.gnuenterprise.org/var/svn/gnue/trunk GNU Enterprise or is this bug report bogus as the website and svn both seem correct and ahve gnuenterprise.org no gnuenteprise.org unless it is somewhere else they are talking about fixed 10 minutes ago okay you must get mail delivered more quickly as i looked as soon as the mail hit and it was fixed :) thats a good problem to have sigh well dood i JUST got the first mail I get frustrated w/mail on gnu.org ok so i'm slow i.e. the one he sent at 9:46 i got a few minutes ago the one he sent at 9:43 JUST got delivered but wtf is our svn page on the site? hit developers corner then under that there is a link for "get code" ah see it have either of you used rapid svn? also how hard is it to install svn? * derek needs to do so at work but am intimidated lots of USING cvs/svn, but no admining it does it work on woody? compiled from source yes i think there are backports too actually ash used to use the backports did you say that to encourage or scare me away from the backports :) use the backports backports.org anyone from europe here and still awake? the big gotcha is you need to move svn svnadmin svnserve to samething.real and add wrappers deb http://www.backports.org/debian stable all in place of the real commands or set it up to use webdav and apache2 yeah well i will stop by when i go to tackle it but you're on your own w/that last option :) then don't forget after each .deb update to recreate them or better yet * derek is seriously stuck with server options chattr +i svn i have to procure servers i very much love debian jamest: what does that do?> then i imagine dpkg will remind you it makes a file immutable but i am having a hard time getting a machine shipped with debian and support not even root can change it wondering if moving to SuSE or Red Hat Advanced Server is a better move for high end hardware installs SuSE seems nice enough it's network install was a bitch though well historically i wouldnt give suse money if you paid me but now that they are novell and miggy and company are there, they appear to be getting free software friendly however it feels more like debian than fedora with it's bluecurve(?) interface doing Yast as GPL is a good step forward redhat is probably more expensive than i want to pay i am most concerned with using what i know so the more debian like the better :) * derek seriously wishes someone would a debian commericial distribution correctly i.e. keep it in the vain of free software( i.e. not xandros or lindows) but give it polish and support and current packages for big stuff derek: If you'll pay me, I'll do it. =) derek: Seriously, I've chatted with a few people about it, but the problem is that you'd have to approach it like Progeny: Make money doing something else, slowly add Debian support, and hope that it takes off. wasn't HP/Novell now in bed together w/ a SuSE based solution? Yup and IBM supported SuSE at the linux world we attended * jamest had to wipe the server and install debian :) er, i think i did that IBM and Novell always support the same products. derek: and there is MEPIS i have considered mepis just doesnt have any momentum jbailey: yeah im hoping someone does that progeny seems to have given up i probably will be getting hp hardware Yeah, the progeny sales rep doesn't even return phone calls. i think my choices are hp and dell derek: HP will support Debian in the US, I think, as long as you have HP hardware. hp i think i can get to ship with debian still so that is what i am pursuing but the models i have looked at so far only ship with suse or redhat You have to get a support contract with them,. They only ship debian pre-installed on the ia64 boxes. derek: if you have them ship me one of those I can test it out for you hmmm what is package support like on those? i.e. if its under 15k it might still be in my price range if there is good app support derek: I'm pretty sure you can get them for under 15k. What apps are you looking for? Someone told me my box would retail for about 20k, and it's got some really nice specs. sigh, you people with, what do they calls thoses things......oh yeah, real budgets you make me sick suse is way cheaper than red hat I'm using SuSE Enterprise here tried redhat enterprise blech was mildly looking at this http://gem.compaq.com/gemstore/gemcart/basket.asp?printview=&oi=E9CED&SiteID=&dest=&secured= i really wanted a cluster like this http://gem.compaq.com/gemstore/gemcart/basket.asp?printview=&oi=E9CED&SiteID=&dest=&secured= but i dont think GNU/Linux will run on it or at least it doesnt ship with it ebay wendall911: i cant we have rules against it unfortunately (to a degree) government and all you can get a cluster of used computers for $15K that would exceed anything you could ever buy new hehe because that's what sells on ebay, gov't waste