*** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise
*** btami has joined #gnuenterprise
*** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dcmwai has quit IRC
*** bluesbaron_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** bluesbaron_ has left #gnuenterprise
*** dcmwai has joined #gnuenterprise
<SachaS> good morning
<btami> morning SachaS
<SachaS> hi btami
<SachaS> chillywilly: you probably came across AS2 for EDI: http://www.nwfusion.com/news/tech/2002/1209techupdate.html
<SachaS> there is an open source AS2 project at: http://www.openas2.org/
*** dimas_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dimas has quit IRC
*** SachaAway has quit IRC
*** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise
*** reinhard_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** btami has quit IRC
*** reinhard has quit IRC
*** dcmwai has quit IRC
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
*** mixi^ has quit IRC
*** mixi has joined #gnuenterprise
<kilo> hi everyone
<SachaS> hi kilo
<kilo> juyst reading your emails
<SachaS> let me know what you think ...
<kilo> ok
<kilo> SachaS, can you give me some links to UBL?
<SachaS> UBL homepage: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ubl
<SachaS> a tool (gratis, check licence) for UBL: http://www.gefeg.com/en/standard/xml/ubl.htm
<kilo> thx
<kilo> we've been discussing with btami recently to re-open some universally scriptable projects lsot sometime in gnue
<kilo> like in packages, there are lots of usably things
<kilo> but first we should consider what definition language to use for it
<kilo> ODL, UBL, UML... and such
<kilo> one use could be to develop a system using this descriptive language and
<kilo> have a tool to automate the gsd generation, or better, write it directly
<kilo> into appserver.
<SachaS> yes i agree with you.
<kilo> so that classrepo.gfd could be left out of this game, as it raises
<kilo> many possibilities of making errors, like in ecery manual work
<SachaS> i totally agree with you.
<SachaS> with babyerp, even though it has only a few packages, few classes, few procedures ... its hard to ... remember whats there
<SachaS> at one point in time
<SachaS> when the gnue packages start to get momentum again
<SachaS> people have to sit down again
<SachaS> and plan how to proceed
<SachaS> for me thats the hard part
<SachaS> to get started
<SachaS> at the beginning you set the foundation
<SachaS> and if the foundation is flawed .... whatever you do on top of the foundation is flawed
<kilo> aye
<SachaS> what you mean with aye?
*** dsmith has joined #gnuenterprise
<kilo> building a strong foundation is the most mportant thing
<SachaS> what you think of the following:
<SachaS> we start a repository
<SachaS> we add business classes to that repository
<SachaS> can be uml diagrams
<SachaS> uml class diagrams
<SachaS> with attributes and procedures
<SachaS> I also like the idea of having uml diagrams
<SachaS> save them as xmi or whatever and then export them to .gsd files
<SachaS> so in a uml editor, like argouml
<SachaS> you can reuse those business classes of the gnue registry
<SachaS> then again
<SachaS> this is all technical stuff
<SachaS> the hard part is to design/model a business class
<SachaS> how does a person, addres etc business class look like? what are its attributes? what are its procedures?
<reinhard> for the record
<SachaS> how can we model a address business class which can be reused all over again
<reinhard> that would be übercool if somebody would do such a thing
<reinhard> uml2gsd
* reinhard goes back to work
<kilo> was it uebercool?
<SachaS> ;)
<reinhard> supercool
<SachaS> ok. great to know reinhard supports the idea
* kilo speaks aber little Deutsch
<SachaS> i looked at how dia stores its uml diagrams ... its def. dooable
<kilo> dia stores it in xml fully
<reinhard> so a xslt script should do it :)
<SachaS> kilo: dia stores it in dia notation
<SachaS> in dia xml
<SachaS> has no xmi export
<kilo> uml is a superset over what a gsd can do
<kilo> imho
<SachaS> argouml does ;) but if you create an empty class, save it as .xmi and then load it again - bombs argouml
<SachaS> reinhard: xslt yeah :)
<SachaS> some transformation
<kilo> dia is a drawing tool not a creation one
<SachaS> ok ok :) i agree
<SachaS> so we maybe should use a uml tool
<kilo> and that is where i got interested in UBL
<dsmith> I have heard of people doing database schemas in dia anf then generating postgres code, for example.
<SachaS> reinhard: have a quick look at http://www.brunswickwdi.com/map_builder   ... that a gpl tool which lets you create transformations (i have to admit i just installed it and gave it a 5 minute go)
<kilo> there are tools for dia->sql transforms, yes
<SachaS> at one stage, there must have been a dia2gnue script
<SachaS> derek told me
<kilo> even dia->python transforms too
<dsmith> I have a dia2sql that someone here gave me.
<SachaS> we would need a UMLClassDiagram2gsd script
* SachaS is talking appserver of course
<dsmith> Ever see umbrello?
<SachaS> but again
<SachaS> no umbrello got a link?
<SachaS> this is all technical stuff ;)
<SachaS> the hard question (for me) is still, how do you model a specific business class, like address, purchase order, person, this, that, etc
<kilo> but - even though i love dia - dia has serious display problems, like different fonttypes completely fscking up the whole diagram...
<dsmith> apt-get install umbrello
<SachaS> apt-cache show umbrello oh yeah.
<dsmith> http://uml.sourceforge.net/index.php
<SachaS> pretty cool
<SachaS> ok apt-get install umbrello ;)
<dsmith> It's kde. And I'm not sure it's xml.
<SachaS> ok. i see 2 things (appserver related)
<SachaS> there are business classes (like person, address, purchase order, this and that)
<SachaS> and then there are business processes
<SachaS> if you look again at the business integration engine at http://www.brunswickwdi.com/dashboard
<SachaS> you have a gpl tool, which allows you to visually model a business process (internal, local business process) and it also includes a business process execution engine
<SachaS> and apparently its based on bpml, the business process markup language from www.bpml.org
<SachaS> there is a new one: wsbpel: web services business process execution language
<SachaS> ibm has a bpel implementation see more at: http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/bpws4j
<SachaS> licence of ibm impl. maybe does not go along the gnue licence policy, so .. maybe a no go
<SachaS> but we are in a very intersting space here ;)
<kilo> ie?
<SachaS> kilo ie? what you mean?
<kilo> ie=id est in latin, ie what do you mean 8-)))
<kilo> interesting space
<kilo> ?
<SachaS> ah :)
<SachaS> its very interesting to follow this electronic business, business 2 business, path
<kilo> first thing to consider then should be the declaration of the method and tools to use
<kilo> and only after that can serious work be started
<SachaS> how do you think this could be started ?
<SachaS> could be done
<kilo> we should ask reinhard 8-))))))
<kilo> wtf, i have umberllo installed???
<kilo> SachaS: i think that building a central object repo is a great idea
<dsmith> Umbrello is very specifically a UML editor.  Dia can do uml, but it can also do a lot more.  There is a plugin interface to dia iirc, so it could be mutated into a buisness specific editor.
<kilo> it should be pushed and pushed until work began
<kilo> I love the realtime clock in dia, that can be put on a diagram...
<SachaS> kilo: i agree, to use a central object repo comes after the decision: what to consider, declaration of method and tools ...
<kilo> i suggest we talk to others about it and if noone volunteers to start the project, or re-enable older, ceised projects like this
<kilo> (and no one will...) we should start it
<SachaS> something i forgot to write down of the conversation with reinhard was:
<SachaS> how committed are people to contribute to gnue
<SachaS> me for example I am mostly just hanging out here.
<SachaS> now with babyerp
<SachaS> and the howto doc
<SachaS> will I update that? for how long? is it worth having it, when I disappear after 1 year?
<kilo> do you plan to? 8-))
<SachaS> haha
<kilo> should we start making stickers: "Have you seen this man, SachaS?"
<SachaS> i like to start things, not so good at actually finishing them.
<SachaS> yeah ;)
<SachaS> actually i dont know
<SachaS> so thats no good :)
<SachaS> for this project it would be good to have someone saying: yeah i will be around for the next 10 years.
<kilo> noone can see so far
<johannesV> :)
<kilo> we here want to build a HR system using gnue. it wont be a two-month project, thats for sure
<kilo> and we are very interested in HR systems in other countries too, especially here in europe
<kilo> how much common can we find in them
*** Morphous has joined #gnuenterprise
<SachaS> I have no idea about HR :)
<kilo> no, you do
<kilo> it deals with people
<kilo> do you know any humans? what data can be stored about them?
<SachaS> lol
<kilo> so if you do, you can contribute to a HR system via a central repo...
<SachaS> ? sexy non sexy ? is that a good attribute?
<SachaS> maybe depends which business ;)
*** jamest has joined #gnuenterprise
<kilo> yes, exactly
<SachaS> ok
<kilo> got to go now, will be back in the evening
<SachaS> ok. see you later
*** kilo has quit IRC
<SachaS> oh i went to a Santana concert a while back
<SachaS> we was saying: "Some sell out, we go deep and long"
<SachaS> thought this has something in common with free software
<SachaS> anyways will shut up for a while
*** SachaS has quit IRC
*** Amorphous has quit IRC
*** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise
<chillywilly> hey SachaS 
<chillywilly> I was reading the AS2 standard the other day
<chillywilly> it's just that not too many people use it they are still stuck on usign proprietary VANs
<chillywilly> hmmm, they have nicely organized links to all the relevant RFCs
<chillywilly> I know Walmart actually does AS2
<SachaS> ok
<chillywilly> but why Java ;)
<chillywilly> ugh ;)
<dsmith> chillywilly: What's AS2?
<chillywilly> a standard for doing EDI over the internet
<dsmith> Ahh
<chillywilly> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ediint-as2-12.txt
<reinhard> a standard for doing EDI?
<chillywilly> it's a communication protocol
<reinhard> i am not used to see "standard" and "EDI" in the same sentence
<chillywilly> you send encryted documents and then send receipts back
<chillywilly> ASC X12 and EDIFACT are EDI standards are they not? ;)
<dsmith> chillywilly: That link doesn't exist (anymore?)
<chillywilly> lame
<chillywilly> can't find it now
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ediint-as2-15.txt
<chillywilly> there ;P
<derek> reinhard : i will quote you here
<derek> "the wonderful thing about standards, there are so many to choose from"
<derek> i think that phrase is dead on when it comes to EDI :)
<derek> there is an 810 document (and it has a standard)
<derek> but depending on which company you ask you will receive a different answer to what a valid 810 is ;)
*** johannesV_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** johannesV has quit IRC
<jcater> SachaS: the headsup thing is just a data entry application for order forms
<jcater> we can the customer's order forms in using a high-speed fujitsu scanner
<jcater> then the data entry operators can see the form on their screen to key it
<jcater> versus the old way of having to flip through the order forms themselves
<SachaS> hi jcater: very nice.
<SachaS> thanks
*** dhill1 has joined #gnuenterprise
<dhill1> everytime I ask Derek a question, he says I should come here and ask you guys...
<dhill1> I need to prepare and execute a query.
<dhill1> How do I do it, or where do I look for how to do it?
*** wendall911 has joined #gnuenterprise
<jamest> dhill1: is this in forms?
<jamest> or in python via common
<derek> quick review of 
<derek> gnue-forms/src/GFObjects/GFBlock.py yields
<derek> <block>.initQuery()
<derek> and
<derek> <block>.executeQuery()
<derek> to prepare and execute
<derek> executeQuery seems to map to processQuery
<derek> so not sure which is correct to use (i assume executeQuery)
<derek> however i did not see any way to "pass values"
<derek> perhaps
<derek> <block>.<field>.set('value')
<derek> or
<derek> <block>.<field>.setValue('value')
<derek> or
<derek> <block>.<field> = 'value'
<dhill1> it seems I can do the initQuery and set the values, but executeQuery fails.
<derek> what happens on the fail?
<dhill1> If I press the query button it works, but I'd rather not press the button
<dhill1> name 'executeQuery' is not defined
<derek> try
<derek> <block>.processQuery()
<derek> and see if it works
<dhill1> name 'processQuery' is not defined.
<derek> executeQuery should work and processQuery shouldn't but hey..
<dhill1> is it meeting time?
<derek> okay there is a shotgun in the corner... pick it up...
<derek> put two shells from the drawer in the barrel
<jamest> dhill1: i have a sample
<derek> aim at computer
<jamest> please hang on
<derek> pull twice
<derek> yes meeting time
<jcater> ooo, meetings are so much fun
<jcater> beats having your teeth pulled any day
<derek> jcater: good point
<derek> dhill1 : then reload gun with two fresh shells
<derek> and bring to meeting
<dhill1> jamest: samples are cool
<derek> totally cool ;)
<jamest>   <trigger type="NAMED" name="AutoPull"><![CDATA[
<jamest>       if blkPO_ITEMS.isEmpty():
<jamest>         claimValue = str(blkPO.fldClaimNo)
<jamest>         poValue    = str(blkPO.fldPoNo)
<jamest>         vendorValue= str(blkPO.fldVendName)
<jamest>         print claimValue, poValue, vendorValue
<jamest>         if len(claimValue):
<jamest>           blkPO.initQuery()
<jamest>           blkPO.fldClaimNo.set(claimValue)
<jamest>           blkPO.executeQuery()
<jamest>         elif len(poValue):
<jamest>             blkPO.initQuery()
<jamest>             blkPO.fldPoNo.set(poValue)
<jamest>             blkPO.executeQuery()
<jamest>         elif len(vendorValue):
<jamest>             blkPO.initQuery()
<jamest>             blkPO.fldVendName.set(vendorValue)
<jamest>             blkPO.executeQuery()
<jamest> ]]></trigger>
<jamest> then i attach that to a field via a  pre-focusout trigger
<jamest> it autopopulates the form they are about to edit
<jamest> based upon a what they typed in to begin with
<jamest> is that what you needed?
<jamest> oh yeah
<jamest> <flood />
<jamest> :)
*** Vee2d2 has joined #gnuenterprise
*** SachaS has quit IRC
*** btami has joined #gnuenterprise
<btami> dsmith: thanks mention umbrello
<btami> it's simply GREAT
<wendall911> you guys might appreciate this link http://www.funroll-loops.org/ (work friendly)
*** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise
<dsmith> btami: np
<SachaS> reinhard or johannesV_ are you here?
<SachaS> reinhard, johannesV: i am on my way. will by at reinhards place at 19.45
*** SachaS has quit IRC
*** johannesV_ has quit IRC
<reinhard> l8r
*** reinhard has quit IRC
<dhill1> jamest: thanks.
<dhill1> yup
<dhill1> <jamest>   <trigger type="NAMED" name="AutoPull"><![CDATA[
<dhill1> <jamest>       if blkPO_ITEMS.isEmpty():
<dhill1> <jamest>         claimValue = str(blkPO.fldClaimNo)
<dhill1> <jamest>         poValue    = str(blkPO.fldPoNo)
<dhill1> <jamest>         vendorValue= str(blkPO.fldVendName)
<dhill1> <jamest>         print claimValue, poValue, vendorValue
<dhill1> <jamest>         if len(claimValue):
<dhill1> <jamest>           blkPO.initQuery()
<dhill1> <jamest>           blkPO.fldClaimNo.set(claimValue)
<dhill1> <jamest>           blkPO.executeQuery()
<dhill1> <jamest>         elif len(poValue):
*** wendall911 has left #gnuenterprise
<dhill1> <jamest>             blkPO.initQuery()
<dhill1> <jamest>             blkPO.fldPoNo.set(poValue)
<dhill1> <jamest>             blkPO.executeQuery()
<dhill1> <jamest>         elif len(vendorValue):
<dhill1> <jamest>             blkPO.initQuery()
<dhill1> <jamest>             blkPO.fldVendName.set(vendorValue)
<dhill1> <jamest>             blkPO.executeQuery()
<dhill1> <jamest> ]]></trigger>
<dhill1> oops
<jamest> :)
* derek wants to know how a far commute it is from liechtenstien (sp) to austria
* dhill1 makes a not to not press *that* button again
<derek> it is only fun to press that button when chillywilly  is here
<derek> it used to be fun when jamest was on dialup, but he fixed that so its not as fun anymore ;)
*** mixi has quit IRC
*** mixi has joined #gnuenterprise
<chillywilly> hmmm?
<chillywilly> I am here
<derek> dhill1 quick hit that button
*** btami has quit IRC
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
<kilo> derek: liechtenstein is stuck between austria and switzerland
<kilo> and if you are not beware, where youstep, you might wander over the order...
<nickr> between australia and norway
<kilo> s/order/border
*** roby has joined #gnuenterprise
*** roby has quit IRC
*** sjc has joined #gnuenterprise
<chillywilly> nickr: shutup
<nickr> what?
<chillywilly> are you illiterate?
<nickr> No
<chillywilly> ok then shut yer pie hole
<chillywilly> :)
<nickr> Why?
<chillywilly> cause I Lord chillywilly have deemed it so
<chillywilly> off with his head!
<chillywilly> I dunno you're in Oregon right I thought that was some sort of North Western greeting
<chillywilly> !&$%@&#^%
<chillywilly> make my code work nickr 
<chillywilly> it b0rked
<chillywilly> it's
<nickr> first you must realize that lichtenstein is between australia and norway
<chillywilly> australia is nowhere near there
<chillywilly> it's a freakin' ISLAND
<nickr> Its still between them-
<nickr> not *right* between them, granted..
*** kilo has quit IRC
*** wayneg has quit IRC
<chillywilly> split!
<chillywilly> you try too hard nickr 
*** wayneg has joined #gnuenterprise
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
<nickr> too hard at what?
<chillywilly> to be a funny man
<nickr> I'm trying to be funny?
<dsmith> Hmm
<chillywilly> dale dale dale
<chillywilly> how the heck are ya?
*** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise
<dsmith> GRoovy.
<dsmith> chillywilly: 2.6.6 is happening on my desktop box
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> is it in the debian archive?
<dsmith> Yep.
<chillywilly> Linux gandalf.libertyetech.com 2.6.4-1-686 #1 Sat Mar 13 19:25:38 EST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> bah that's not my desktop
<chillywilly> that's my desktop at home
<dsmith> Linux TAG00604 2.6.6-1-686 #1 Wed May 12 14:57:57 EST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
<chillywilly> Linux wood.metalexpress.net 2.6.5-1-686 #5 Fri Apr 30 20:26:13 EST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
<chillywilly> guess I need to upgrade
<chillywilly> ;)
<dsmith> My palm serial/usb thingy is working great without hanging, and the lego mindstorms vidcam is working great too.
<chillywilly> pics!
<chillywilly> pics!
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> turn it on
<dsmith> (I use that as a rear-view-mirror sometimes)
<dsmith> Right
<chillywilly> Left
*** sjc has quit IRC
<dsmith> Ok, you asked for it.
<dsmith> chillywilly: http://users.adelphia.net/~dsmich/screen.png
<dsmith> heh
<chillywilly> I thought you were gonna take mug shots
<chillywilly> what wm are you using?
<dsmith> Wouldn't want to break anything
<dsmith> xawtv
<chillywilly> my desktop is prettier than yours
<reinhard> night all
*** reinhard has quit IRC
<chillywilly> night
<dsmith> Sure, but I *like* mine.
<chillywilly> how can you ;)
<chillywilly> those look like athena widgets
<chillywilly> the ugliest toolkit ever created
<dsmith> fvwm
<chillywilly> yuck ;P
<dsmith> and emacs
<nickr> I like athena
<nickr> round buttons rock
<chillywilly> I don't like the X emacs
<dsmith> athena is cool for low resource systems.
<nickr> nothing on there is athena
<chillywilly> well whatever that fake 3-d wannabe toolkit was called
<dsmith> chillywilly: Of course not. You should use GNU emacs
<nickr> xaw3d maybe
<chillywilly> dsmith: I don't like the GUI for GNU Emacs
<chillywilly> better? ;)
<dsmith> heh
<chillywilly> emacs -nw forever
*** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise
<chillywilly> http://www.ultraspec.us/p2g4.htm <-- I want one of those
<dsmith> http://users.adelphia.net/~dsmich/snap.jpg
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> what's on the board back there?
<dsmith> secret stuff
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> I can digitally enhance it and steal your secrets now
<chillywilly> w00t
<dsmith> My screen in in the corner away from the opening, so I use the camera to watch people walk by.
<chillywilly> are you in a cube farm?
<dsmith> Yes. But not very large.
* chillywilly has his own office ;)
* chillywilly is a big shot
<chillywilly> or something
* dsmith gets paid to do cool stuff.
<dsmith> But now I'm leaving
*** dsmith has quit IRC
<chillywilly> yay
<chillywilly> hmmmm, I should go home
<derek> i thought that said....
<derek> chillywilly rolls in pig snot
<derek> not "is a big shot"
<chillywilly> ok...
<chillywilly> damnit this thing was working...
<SachaS> derek: it takes 45 minutes with the car from Liechtenstein to Lustenau (Austria)
*** jamest has quit IRC
*** dhill1 has quit IRC
*** kilo has quit IRC
*** Vee has quit IRC
*** Vee has joined #gnuenterprise
*** crazymike has joined #gnuenterprise
*** bluesbaron_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** crazymike has quit IRC
*** bluesbaron_ has left #gnuenterprise
*** crazymike has joined #gnuenterprise
*** jcater has quit IRC
*** mixi^ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** mixi has quit IRC
*** crazymike has quit IRC
*** __aaron__ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** jcater has joined #gnuenterprise
*** crazymike has joined #gnuenterprise
<chillywilly> hey
<chillywilly> you broke your message board ;P
<crazymike> lol...yup
<crazymike> actually I think the storms did it
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> hmmm
<crazymike> cause it killed the power
<chillywilly> so postgres won't come up?
<crazymike> I guess
<crazymike> dude, want to call me?
<chillywilly> what happens if you run
<chillywilly> /etc/init.d/postgresql restart
<chillywilly> sure if you want
<crazymike> i'll try that
<crazymike> yeah, call me...haven't talked to you in a long time
<crazymike> 414-810-8644
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> bah, now your phone number is publicly logged ;)
<crazymike> oh well
*** crazymike has quit IRC
*** dimas_ has quit IRC
*** SachaS has quit IRC