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<btami> wow 55 commit mails (thanks to jcater)
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<SachaS> morning
<btami> hi
<johannesV> hi
<kilo> hi
<johannesV> have you all read the commit mails ? *lol*
<kilo> yes, from letter to letter 8-))
<johannesV> so did i :)
<johannesV> i'm glad the commit mails are back, anyway 
<kilo> yes, yes, we missed them
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<SachaS> when you connect to a modem with minicom for example
<SachaS> and you type a command like ATE0
<SachaS> you should get an immediate feedback, dont you?
<kilo> yes
<SachaS> i cannot talk to this device:
<SachaS> http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/agc100/index.html
<SachaS> actually this one:
<SachaS> http://www.silicontech.be/Banners/benten.htm
<SachaS> its working under windoze. i can make and receive phone calls from a windoze laptop.
<kilo> hmm, bill knows something... 8-))
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<kilo> wow, i'm astonished...
<SachaS> kilo, what astonishes you?
<kilo> i hand-coded a gfd file by hand, not looking at any reference, and is works at first shot, a master-detail form
<kilo> wow, ain't i a big masta 8-))
<kilo> and it uses appserver...
<SachaS> kilo, could you add a layout manager to the gnue forms?
<kilo> sorry i dont understand
<johannesV> SachaS: layout-management is something which is needed in the future
<johannesV> reinhard and i have talked about it a little bit 
<johannesV> but we didn't go into much details 
<SachaS> i was thinking kilo maybe can implement it this afternoon ;)
<johannesV> as soon as a layoutmanager is available to forms, we could used scaled fonts (for example)
<johannesV> which would gave all forms a much nicer look :)
<kilo> no, this adternoon is no good, it is way too hot 8-))
<kilo> imho the gtk interface should be developped to be useable
<johannesV> kilo: as soon as reinhard has finished his work on the curses stuff i would start with the gtk2
<kilo> wow, curses would be great too
<johannesV> we thought it is better to analyze things with curses as 'sample'
<kilo> all i can add is that wx is a thick, evil, dark forest
<kilo> how can i call a form from another form (ie clicking on a button it opens up a new form)?
<kilo> form.runForm("bla.gfd") can't find bla.gfd in the same dir
<kilo> where does it look for the gfd file to open?
<johannesV> runForm () worked for me
<johannesV> or you can use a dialog
<johannesV> and call it by 'activateDialog ()'
<johannesV> the latter one could be called modal
<kilo> runForm seems ok, but where does it expect the gfd file
<johannesV> i think in the same dir as the calling form is 
<btami> kilo: in gnue.conf there is a FormDir in [forms] section
<kilo> ok, i mistyped it
<kilo> it looks for the new form in the dir where the original forms is
<kilo> sorry
<johannesV> well actually it uses openResource () from gnue-common
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<btami> johannesV: http://pytvision.sourceforge.net/
<btami> it's promising too
<btami> if can you remember tvision from turbo pascal
<btami> http://tvision.sourceforge.net/
<johannesV> i can
<johannesV> :)
<btami> ok :)
<johannesV> but i think we don't need the complete 'turbo vision' for our curses-ui
<johannesV> i'm curious about what reinhard has done so far :)
<SachaS> off for while
* SachaS is away: away
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<reinhard> l8r
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<wendall911> any debian guru's in the house? apt-get is buggy for me (yet again)
<wayneg> wendall911, i'm by no means a guru ... but maybe i can help ?
<wendall911> cool wayneg
<wayneg> so what's up ?
<wendall911> I'm trying to upgrade to gnome 2.6, but some of the packages have broken dependencies 
<wendall911> Support for anything newer than circa 2002 or so is pretty weak in the Debian world
<wendall911> wayneg: I know what the problem is, just don't know how to correct it via apt
<wendall911> wayneg: I have a couple packages marked pi that appear to be the culprits, but they won't reinstall
<wayneg> so if these packages reinstall ... then you'd be right ?
<wendall911> ah
<wendall911> I wasn't able to locate a package for libbonobo-activation4
<wendall911> wayneg: how do I resolve that?
<wendall911> same with libbonobo2.0
<wendall911> libbonobo2-0
<wayneg> hmm .. i a little confussed ... what cmd are you using to install gnome2.6 ?
<wayneg> cause it should be finding the depedences for you
<wendall911> apt-get upgrade gnome
<wendall911> wayneg: heh
<wendall911> wayneg: does apt-get ever find all deps correctly? Never has a single time for me.
<wendall911> wayneg: unless I'm running woody
<wayneg> cat /etc/debian_version
<wayneg> what does that say ?
<wendall911> testing/unstable
<wayneg> well then your not running woody
<wendall911> wayneg: I know
<wendall911> wayneg: that's what I mean...anything but woody...that is seriously out of date for any development work apt breaks and has very poor support from the community for fixing issues
<wayneg> yeah i know what you mean
<wendall911> wayneg: I'll figure it out...I can always install from sources since apt doesn't appear to be able to handle the job.
<wayneg> true
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<wendall911> wayneg: it appears that the libs were removed from unstable, but the upgraded packages weren't put in place to replace them. Typical...I can probably find on a dev list where they are fighting about it...in 6 months or so it will be back because people will bitch ;)
<wayneg> haha
<wendall911> Debian project needs some house cleaning. Could stand to loose a few devs.
<wendall911> Same with Savannah...they are starting to look like idiots to the rest of the community.
<wendall911> with stuff broken all the time and not being able to figure out security issues.
<wendall911> thankfully the gnue guys aren't in that boat ;)
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<wayneg> haha ... yes thankfully
<wendall911> wayneg: I'm just doing a dpkg -P on all packages dependent and seeing if I can rebuild things
<holycow> hola dudes :)
<wayneg> holycow =)
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<jcater_> mooo
<chillywilly> peeep
<dcmwai> wooo :)
<dcmwai> at last I can start speaking again :(
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<wendall911> wayneg: I think removing and reinstalling will fix the problem...It sucessfully upgraded the packages to the proper versions this time
<wayneg> sweet
<wendall911> wayneg: I wish there was a more pleasant way to fix dependency problems. Gentoo portage has excellent tools built in to fix stuff like that
<wayneg> it would be nice, so you have a sane system now ... albeit without 2.6?
<wendall911> wayneg: yeah, I'm installing everything right now
<wendall911> wayneg: I think the only real way to go from 2.4 on deb is to uninstall and reinstall
<wendall911> wayneg: gnome changed alot of deps around
<wendall911> wayneg: I'm just playing with a livecd using the knoppix tools...it is pretty cool
<wendall911> wayneg: I've built them on a bunch of different distros just to mess around.
<wendall911> wayneg: very interesting stuff
<wayneg> it is very cool ... i'm looking at that stuff myself
<wendall911> wayneg: It is really easy to setup and tweak...the only think I don't like is that it is time consuming to make configuration changes. I want to figure out a better way of doing things than they have. Basically use a running system and convert it to the compressed file system
<wayneg> doesn't knoppix already have tools to let you do that ?
<wendall911> wayneg: I think it is very possible to do that way...They have a method for running the compressed fs off of cd, but that is a pain. You update in a chroot env, so you can't really startx and tweak desktop settings
<wendall911> wayneg: it is easy to configure system settings, just not desktop settings
<wendall911> wayneg: unless you are a whiz with cl gconf2
<wayneg> ok ... i see what your saying now
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<wendall911> of course, you could just run off of an identical system as your chroot environment and just copy the configs from your home directory to the cd directory :)
<wendall911> I'm just not updating from a Deb system
<wayneg> haha ... now that's thinking ;)
<wayneg> what system are you basing your livecd on if not a Debian one ?
<wendall911> Gentoo
<wendall911> wayneg: that's the system I'm building from currently
<wendall911> wayneg: works fine...they are very similar in structure
<wendall911> Daniel Robbins was a Debian hacker afterall
<wayneg> coolies ... never tried gentoo
<wendall911> wayneg: it is great for development
<wayneg> if i ever get another box i might have to give it a go
<wendall911> wayneg: I have my own binary host and compile everything on the binhost using distcc
<wendall911> use all the computers in the office to compile and use an older unused pc as the binhost
<wendall911> very easy to maintain, and I have my own binary tree
<wayneg> damn ... so you compile the WHOLE system ?
<wayneg> that's hardcore
<wayneg> how long does it take from woe-to-go ?
<wendall911> wayneg: yeah, it is all managed by portage
<wendall911> wayneg: about four hours to a working gnome 2.6 desktop with ximian evolution, openoffice-bin ;) , gaim, vim, jedit apache2 mysql postgresql mod_php, etc
<wendall911> wayneg: I have 12 procs in the compile farm
<wayneg> holy shiat ... haha
<wayneg> so do you get a big performance boost from compiling for your native processor ?
<wendall911> wayneg: otherwise, about 2 days, give or take...takes a day to compile openoffice and about 3-4 gigs of free hd space
<wendall911> wayneg: I don't think it is that big of a boost
<wendall911> wayneg: negligible anyway
<wayneg> k
<wendall911> wayneg: I compile everything i686
<wendall911> -O3 -march=i686 -pipe -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer
<wendall911> wayneg: stuff always compiles and works
<wayneg> well 4 hours work ... it would wanna =)
<wayneg> so from memory there are different 'levels' to start from in gentoo right?
<wendall911> wayneg: right
<wendall911> wayneg: just various amounts of precompiled binaries
<wendall911> wayneg: stage3 has most stuff you need for a fully working desktop without compiling much except upgrades
<wendall911> wayneg: I usually start at stage2...doing a bootstrap is practically pointless
<wendall911> wayneg: stage1 you go from a bootstrap
<wayneg> well i'll definetly have to try it out some time then
<wendall911> wayneg: it is a really nice distro to do dev work with...was very easy to install gnue on as well
<wayneg> Bonus =)
<wendall911> wayneg: I have it running on a box currently...I plan to write and maintain an install script when I have time to actually do so.
<wayneg> install script for ?
<wendall911> wayneg: would probably only take a day to actually get it tested and working...I just keep getting distracted on other things....install script for gnue on Gentoo
<wayneg> schweet
<wayneg> nice chatting wendall911 ... gtg bbl
<wendall911> laters wayneg
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<holycow> <wendall911> wayneg: I think the only real way to go from 2.4 on deb is to uninstall and reinstall  <-- completely true
<holycow> i've hosed ever 2.4 to 2.6 upgrade 
<holycow> the only successfull ones were clean installs
<wendall911> holycow: yeah, I found out the hard way
<holycow> i think it has something to do with the migration of preferences
<wendall911> holycow: agreed
<wendall911> holycow: there were alot of dep changes
<holycow> your right we need more in apt
<holycow> like versioning and rollback
<wendall911> yeah, that would be awesome
<holycow> and an option to not carry over personal settings... or some way to wipe out personal settings ... i guess that can be done manually but i donno
<wendall911> holycow: the settings aren't as big of a deal as the dependency problems
<holycow> *nod*
<holycow> otherwise 2.6 is a hell of a package
<wendall911> I had one missing dep after upgrading on a Gentoo box...problem was I killed the install in the middle and it didn't correct it...took like two minutes to fix...this is a long upgrade on Deb from 2.4 to 2.6 there are a ton of problems
<holycow> i wonder what the issue is
<holycow> specifically
<holycow> apt seems wonnerfull overall
<wendall911> holycow: the problem is when a dependency drops...it may still be in the cache of the system not upgraded...apt does a poor job of handling this situation
<holycow> oh really?
<holycow> i didn't know that, neat
<wendall911> It appears to get very confused by the deprecated package
<wendall911> I don't know much about apt, but that tends to be what I run into
<wendall911> I could be totally off the mark
<wendall911> I had a problem with libbonobo2-0 2.4.x not wanting to upgrade to 2.6.x
<holycow> heh
<wendall911> removing gnome 2.4 entirely let me correct it
<holycow> if i only had millions
<holycow> i'd hire people to fix this stuff
<holycow> darnit
<wendall911> heh
<holycow> wendall911, oh i've seen things like that a couple of times
<holycow> maybe because i've used windows for so long i don't bat an eyelash at things that don't work
<holycow> :)
<wendall911> holycow: lol
<wendall911> holycow: there is no way in hell I'd use windows again
<holycow> hehehe
<holycow> agreed
<holycow> you probably won't believe it but it actually pains me to use win when i haveto
<wendall911> I have the same feeling
<holycow> <-- haven't been able to find a replacement for dreamweaver (qt) crashes... still need to use it unfortunately for one or two things
<holycow> but i've migrated absolutely everything to debian
<wendall911> holycow: I came from a Mac and Unix background, so I always thought windows was lame
<holycow> its a much better experience overall
<holycow> all that is lacking some spit and polish here and there
<holycow> hehe :)
<holycow> love macs
<holycow> i gotta get a g5 for the multimedia stuff
<holycow> using windows is insulting
<wendall911> most of the time yes...however, I do have alot of gripes about GNU project as well
<wendall911> Gnome is a wonderful desktop...until you actually try to configure something
<wendall911> I personally use a fairly vanilla setup, but when you want to change something around for another user, it is just a royal pita
<holycow> i havent had much trouble configuring gnome
<holycow> for example?
<wendall911> editing the menu
<holycow> oh thats easy
<wendall911> heh
<holycow> right click and add/remove
<wendall911> holycow: yeah, that's easy
<wendall911> however...it is better than the XP menu
<wendall911> but
<holycow> its actually as easy as win... easier even as all executables are in /urs/bin instead of 40 folders down like on win
<wendall911> the win2k menu is very easy to configure
<holycow> it was stupid hard until i figured the right click thing
<holycow> *nod* yes it is agreed
<wendall911> you can move things around add/delete items AND folders
<holycow> drag and drop *nod* deeper work on that could be fruitfull
<wendall911> I still can't add folders in the gnome menu...unless I do the obscure Applications:/// in nautilus
<wendall911> something that should be a default menu item
<wendall911> I guess I could write my own menu applet ;)
<holycow> oh right yes, i didn't realize that... you cant add 'groups' and 'subgroups'
<wendall911> it's easier to bitch though :)
<holycow> wendall911, hahaha yeah
<holycow> yeah i would want a new menu applet too
<holycow> also this spatial nautilus bullshit has to go to
<holycow> i like the spatial properties
<holycow> but i want to choose which properties ... being boxed into the 'spacial concept' is like ms foisting their ideas on you
<holycow> but then, as you said, i could patch up nautilus i guess :) if i knew how to code lol
<wendall911> holycow: yeah, I still haven't figured out the command to turn the setting off for opening a new window every time
<holycow> thats in gconf
<wendall911> holycow: I use nautilus so little, I haven't really bothered to look to deep though
<wendall911> I'm sure it is...but gconf & gconf2 are great for nothing really
<holycow> apps/nautilus or sommin like that
<holycow> well... yeah its kinda weird problem tho
<holycow> i don't like kde's right click properties on everything
<holycow> very messy
<wendall911> agreed
<holycow> gconf is more organized but it's still overwhelming
<wendall911> I quit using KDE about 2 days after the first time I ever installed it
<holycow> ehe :) i still like it, it's still extremely fast and well performing
<wendall911> agreed
<wendall911> I don't have many bitches until I get another user asking how to change something ;)
<holycow> hehe
<holycow> i'm checking out debian/gnome for our company
<holycow> i like the fact they cant change much
<holycow> but your right, so much potential, such a long way to go
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