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<reinhard> good morning all
<ajmitch_> hi
<ajmitch_> reinhard: no new packages yet this week? :)
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> :)
<ajmitch_> these ones might actually get into sarge then..
<ajmitch_> 4 more days..
<reinhard> i want to wait until the current packages go into sarge
<reinhard> ;-)
<reinhard> yes :)
<ajmitch_> I won't package new ones straight away
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<ajmitch_> and I'd have to get back to harassing jeff to upload for me :)
* ajmitch_ thinks reinhard is sticking closely to release early, release _often_
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<kilo> good morning
<ajmitch_> morning
* reinhard tries to release whenever major steps were done
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<johannesV> good morning
<reinhard> good morning johannes
* reinhard feels like the fish in "meaning of life", having 4 chat channels open and hearing and saying "good morning" everywhere :-)
<johannesV> :)
<johannesV> was gibt's neues ?
<kilo> niente 8-))
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<johannesV> what about howard ... :)
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<kilo> Howard's being eaten
<johannesV> hmm
<johannesV> *lol*
<reinhard> is *that* the meaning of life?
<kilo> http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/MeaningOfLife/mol.html
<reinhard> oh so i would have said
<reinhard>  Is he?  Makes you think, doesn't it?
<reinhard> (in the German version that fish says "is that [being eaten] the meaning of life?"
<kilo> http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/MeaningOfLife/jpgs/int-fish.jpg
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<dimas> hello all
<holycow> ah ....
<holycow> braveheart
<holycow> best movie ever
<kilo> yeah, /me likes it too, skipping all those meaningless love-things and concentrating on the Scottish landscape...
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<dimas> what is the shape of win32 gnue packages?
<dimas> perfect?
<ajmitch_> not as good as the debian ones, I'm sure ;)
<ajmitch_> for a change the debs are up to date in sid
<dimas> is it OK to download it right now or wait about a week for updates?
<ajmitch_> win32?
<ajmitch_> you'd need to ask btami if he comes back soon
<dimas> ajmitch_: win32 builds, right?
<ajmitch_> as far as I know they'd be fine
<ajmitch_> but I haven't used them for awhile
<kilo> dimas: win32 builds are quite ok
<dimas> kilo: thanks, will dl them today then
<kilo> or at least i dont remember any big issues that btami told...
<holycow> back
<holycow> kilo, the movie really made me admire the scotts
<holycow> thats one hell of a story
<holycow> eye, and the land was beut
<holycow> i was paying more attention to the french girl tho
<holycow> >_>
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<kilo> johannesV_: can i override gsscvs' new feature somehow?
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<johannesV_> kilo, yes, there's a new command-line argument
<johannesV_> --yes
<johannesV_> this answeres 'yes' to all questions
<johannesV_> kilo, or do you mean another feature ?
<kilo> oh, yes, no, thx
<kilo> imho it should be --i-am-brave 8-)))
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<reinhard> night all
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<wendall911> anybody here have any knowledge of opengroupware.org?
<wendall911> looks like it is just a zope wannabe
<wendall911> plone
<holycow> your kidding right?
<holycow> did you even fucking read the website?
<holycow> *shakes head*
<holycow> why don't you download the free live cd and try it out
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> don't take it personally, holycow
<holycow> its not even in the same category as plone
<jcater> it was an honest question
<holycow> lol jc, one of the prerequisites of being part of an online community is actually going to the home page and reading the bloody site, the question isn't honest, it's lazy
<jcater> well
<wendall911> holycow: I have read the entire documentation...it uses objects differently, but it looks like a piece of shit
<jcater> ouch
<wendall911> holycow: in fact, I installed it, and my impression is that it is a piece of shit
<jcater> maybe I better back out of this conversation :)
<wendall911> just wanted to know if I missed something
<jcater> one thing I see is that groupware is one of those terms, similar to the problem we have with "enterprise software"
<jcater> it doesn't mean anything by itself
<wendall911> jcater: agreed
<jcater> which is same issue our website has
<jcater> but what do you do?
<jcater> holycow: not siding with wendall911, btw
<jcater> just stating my observations
<holycow> lol no worries :) i probably should of edited my comment
<wendall911> holycow: all I am trying to say is that it looks far less functional than zope
<holycow> that kinna rubbed me the wrong way when its on their website :)
<holycow> wendall911, its not even in the same category
<holycow> your comparing cars to rocks
<wendall911> holycow: and they haven't updated the apache mod in a year and a half...it still requires apache 1.3
<holycow> what does that matter?
<holycow> it has nothing to do with apache, or zope
<holycow> zope isn't groupware
<holycow> its an application framework
<wendall911> I understand
<holycow> you can make pretty much anything with zope
<wendall911> right
<holycow> opengroupware is basically an email server with calendaring and some file sharing
<wendall911> they decided to do their own application framework to build on
<holycow> its has NOTHING in any way at all, no way no how, not even remotely similar to zope
<holycow> no they didn't
<holycow> *sigh*
<wendall911> so what is sope then?
<holycow> zope is a python framework on top of which you build apps
<holycow> just like gnue is a python framework on top of which you build apps
<holycow> opengroupware is basically a mail server (off the shelf)
<holycow> with calendaring (off the shelf)
<holycow> and some glue code to keep it all together
<holycow> how is email in any way similar to say zope or gnue?
<holycow> think: open groupware is a replacement for ms exchange
<wendall911> holycow: I get the feeling you haven't installed it or read the docs
<holycow> lol *sigh*
<wendall911> holycow: it requires SOPE
<holycow> you don't build apps on open groupware
<wendall911> holycow: I know this
<holycow> then?
<wendall911> holycow: but why would one use opengroupware when it is build on a crappy application framework like SOPE? Or is this just a minor shortfall?
<holycow> which part of ITS NOT A FUCKING APPLICATION FRAMEWORK don't you understand?
<holycow> you neither build apps nor do you do anything relating to a 'framework'
<wendall911> holycow: SOPE?
<holycow> thats just used to glue the email, calendaring, and process management together
<holycow> look, take gnue for example
<holycow> pretend i'm actually coding here and contributing
<holycow> we setup open groupware, its just email and calendaring
<holycow> forget all the rest of the shit your talking about
<holycow> we send email back and forth
<holycow> we schedule meetings
<holycow> we store documents online
<holycow> we create and share to do lists
<holycow> we also create processes to manage implementation of various processes, for us this would be somethign like get idea, design scope, hack out some code, test, decide if its good, get approval for production, code it up, deploy it
<holycow> all along the way you would have many circular processes sending email, getting approvals, to do lists for various team members etc.
<holycow> sope is the glue for the stuff between the calendar and imap mail server
<holycow> i.e. its a form of groupware
<holycow> you don't go in and build applications on open groupware as its not a framework, think process and communication management, i.e. ms exchange, lotus domino (minus the app development part of domino)
<jcater> holycow: fwiw
<holycow> they may use a framework, and some pieces of c/c++ to controll all the stuff, but it's not even remotely similar to zope
<jcater> from their faq
<jcater> es OGo do exactly the same things like Exchange?
<jcater> agile: No. OGo is something between a mixture of Exchange and SharePoint portal server. It focuses on groupware and collaboration instead of messaging.
<jcater> which, fwiw, is a lot of what plone does
<jcater> and wendall911 did change zope to plone
<jcater> shortly after asking
<jcater> just saying.....
<wendall911> holycow: ok, I understand...I fail to see what I said was anything other than minor wording. I do understand how say zope and plone are related. I just need to know what you think of it and do you see it as useful at all for groupware?
<holycow> right, i didn't want to split hairs about what groupware is, when hes comparing ogo to zope
<wendall911> ogo to plone
<holycow> or plone even
<wendall911> and zope to sope
<holycow> plone does email? calendaring?
<holycow> thats news to me
<wendall911> ONLY because they make the connection in some twisted way in their docs
<holycow> plone is something y ou build a community site around
<holycow> ogo is not a community site
<holycow> you do remarkably different things in ogo as opposed to plone
<wendall911> holycow: plone does email and calendaring and are working on groupware aspects currently
<holycow> albeit some of it does overlap
<holycow> oh god really?
<holycow> hahaha!
<wendall911> http://plone.org/events/sprints/mountain-sprint/GroupWare
<wendall911> holycow: it isn't anywhere near functional, so you could say it doesn't exist and be correct.
<holycow> *nod*
<holycow> well i guess i don't see why they can't extend email and other 'groupware' functionality into plone
<holycow> i don't see plone as groupware at all, actually groupware as far as i can tell is like the word 'art' it depends on who you ask
<chillywilly> I'm rick james, bitch!'
<holycow> plone started out as a way to build community websites ... now its groupware? weird
<chillywilly> I thought it was a CMS
<holycow> zope3 is supposed to be cool tho
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<holycow> chillywilly, well a specific form of cms, *nod*
<chillywilly> no nodding!
<chillywilly> makes me always nod my head when people type that shit
<holycow> one of the things i'm having a hard time with these online groupware applications is finding justification for their existence
<holycow> i consider my desktop and my file system groupware
<chillywilly> I am going home
<chillywilly> hi ho
<chillywilly> hi ho
<holycow> everything else is just a protocol to share specific types of info
<chillywilly> it's off to home I go
<chillywilly> haha
<chillywilly> yeeeea
* holycow hides chillywilly 's tequial
<wendall911> I know the groupware thing has been discussed here on occasion...I also know nobody ever has a solution
<holycow> wendall911, thats exactly what my problem is too
<holycow> i run lotus domino here for the company
<holycow> its fantastic
<holycow> its an entire development platform infact
<wendall911> yeah, hard to beat
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<holycow> *bah* i need to relax a bit more, i hope i didn't piss him off too much :/
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* jcater dcc's holycow some herbal tee
<kilo> hmm, i've read somewhere that single malt whisky can cure alcoholism very effectively
<nickr> seems like tequila could too
<jcater> ?
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<chillywilly> crack heads
<ajmitch_> yep
* ajmitch_ sees the heated argument over ogo & zope/plone
* ajmitch_ is spending a few weeks doing zope & plone coding at the moment
<chillywilly> ogo?
<ajmitch_> opengroupware.org
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> resitance is obsolete
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