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<kilo> good morning
<reinhard> morning
<reinhard> off to customer
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<ciccio> Hi. I'm still trying to see gnue in action on a debian unstable. the examples are supposed to work?
<kilo> which example did you try?
<ciccio> those for gnue-forms.
<kilo> did intro work?
<ciccio> it opens and with with ctrl-pgup/dn I can switch tabs. something else which is supposed to work here?
<ciccio> There where several problems. If I try the connection test, it opens the window, but when I click on the test button, I get a seg fault
<kilo> and on 2nd tab of intro?
<kilo> conn test is a special case
<kilo> try the zipcode sample too
<ciccio> Yes, the second tab also seems to work.
<ciccio> the zipcode gives an error. looks like I'm missing table zipcode. Where can I find that?
<ciccio> found it. but now I get the error, that table zipcode lacks column zip
<kilo> did you create the db?
<ciccio> yes I did. and I inserted the sql file from location
<kilo> from location? ah
<kilo> drop that table, then use gnue-schema to feed in zipcode.gsd to the db
<ciccio> drop only table zipcode? that file created several other tables as well
<kilo> i would drop all
<ciccio> ok. now it opens, but I don't know, what I can do with that. Any query returns nothing
<ciccio> But I can insert cities (in uppercase), save that and the query returns that. hence I think this example is working now. which should I try next?
<kilo> what are you after? what do you want to use gnue for?
<ciccio> I thought maybe it's possible to recreate some old clipper stuff here. so I found a howto which explains how to do that but it suggests to make first all those examples. also it appends a file which doesn't work because it requires a file (base.gsd) which I can't find
<kilo> btw states.gfd works and you can query that
<kilo> which howto did you read?
<ciccio> Yes. state.gfd works here, and it finds the two entries I created in zipcode.gfd
<ciccio> «Howto create a new GNUe application» by Sacha Schlegel
<ciccio> It's from march 2004
<kilo> that one is deprecated
<ciccio> is there a better one?
<kilo> not yet
<ciccio> any suggestion?
* kilo input coffee
<kilo> see the devguide for forms first
<kilo> in the doc dir
<kilo> then devguide for common
<kilo> if you decide to do n-tier apps then gnue-contrib is a good collection of samples
<ciccio> I'll do that. in schlegel's howto, there is an explanation of the terminology. Is that still correct?
<kilo> svn svn://svn.gnuenterprise.org/var/svn/gnue-contrib gnue-contrib
<kilo> got to check, plz wait
<ciccio> In particular, he explains that a module is essentially a database (I would have expected it to correspond to a sql schema). does this mean, that a module for say stock maintenance will be in a different database than another module, say accounting?
<kilo> well, a module is a logical grouping. a class is like a table, a property is like a field
<kilo> there exists only ONE database
<ciccio> thus, the classes of different modules are not separated anyhow within that database. is this correct?
<kilo> only by name
<kilo> ciccio: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/tools/appserver/docs/whitepaper/whitepaper.html
<ciccio> to use svn, I need "subversion", right?
<kilo> yes, subversion
<ciccio> Just type your commandline above for contrib but I get "unknown command".
<kilo> ok, sorry, it should begin with: svn co svn://....
<kilo> co = checkout
<ciccio> got it
<ciccio> gsscvs doesn't exist here. I'm using the regular debian packages. I guess gsscvs is gnue-schema. What is the best way to do it? Should I create links?
<kilo> use it like 'gcvs gnue-schema'. gcvs is in gnue-common/scripts
<kilo> or if it doesnt help, you can use gnue-schema --connections=path_to_your_connections.conf   instead of gsscvs
<ciccio> gcvs nor gnue-common/scripts come with the debian package. I had already seen that gsscvs can be replaced by gnue-schema, it's just that this seems to be called by the scripts in contrib
<ciccio> babyerp doesn't like me.
<ciccio> The idendifier 'accountsReceivable_invoiceTransaction' exceeds the maximum length of 31 characters
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<btami> ciccio: babyerp is dead :)
<ciccio> RIP
<btami> try something from gnue-contrib instead
<ciccio> babyerp is (alphabetically) the first item in gnue-contrib which I just retrieved using your command line
* btami asks kilo to kill that bad-bad baby right now!
<ciccio> btami: sorry. Just saw that btami != kilo (it was the command line I got from kilo)
<btami> np
<btami> we are sitting 1m from each other :)
<ciccio> don't come closer ;)
* kilo threw babyerp to Attic
<ciccio> gnue-designer would be the proper tool to create any new module?
<kilo> gnue-designer is for creating forms visually, or reports or a schema
<kilo> but if you look at a form's source, you will surely realize that it is very easy to hand-code it
<ciccio> I'm an old C guy (almost K&R) and find any HTML/XML difficult to grasp
<kilo> C is best
<ciccio> That's what I thought. Specially without ++
<kilo> i like both
<ciccio> what exactly is a schema in gnue?
<kilo> a gsd file, describing the db tables/constraints/keys/indexes, and also the data in the table. look at zipcode.gsd for an example
<ciccio> Thanks. I guess there isn't any walk through example for using gnue-designer yet, is there?
<kilo> hmm, dunno
<kilo> but this is how i use it. run it, file/new/wizard/simple form. the wizard asks some simple questions and whoa, tha form is generated. I save and exit from here, and do all other work manually
<ciccio> I'll give it a try
<kilo> remember to save VERY often, it tends to segfault sometimes
<ciccio> ok. but I just saw, that I'll have to create the tables the conventional way, as the wizard will give me only the choice of existing tables. Or did I miss something?
<kilo> hmm, yes, manually
<kilo> try to produce a form for the zipcode table
<ciccio> I can use any postgresql data types or are there constraints?
<kilo> dunno, as we use firebird here.
<kilo> johannesV: <ciccio> I can use any postgresql data types or are there constraints?
<johannesV> ciccio, except blobs everything should work fine
<ciccio> thanks, btw. in gnue terminology, what is a block?
<kilo> see http://www.gnuenterprise.org/tools/forms/   doc section, end developer documentation
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<kilo> around page 50 iirc
<ciccio> I just created a table in my gnue database which can be seen in psql but doesn't show up in gnue-designer. Isn't it enough to create that table?
<johannesV> bbl
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<kilo> you created the table and started designer after that or before that?
<ciccio> I started the designer after exiting psql where I checked that it was actually there and could be accessed by user gnue
<kilo> hmm. and do you see the other tables that were created before?
<ciccio> Yes. I can see them all. The only difference is, that the owner of the other tables is user gnue, and the owner of this one is /me
<ciccio> hm. There is another difference. All tables include an underscore, but mine doesn't.
<kilo> well, try to change owner then. underscore???
<ciccio> address_country has an underscore between address and country
<ciccio> hm. but state and zipcode do not. Then, in gnue-designer I didn't see these two neither
<kilo> you need an entry in connections.conf that points to your db.
<kilo> dfid you choose the right connection in the wizard?
<ciccio> [gnue] isn't enough? I do see for instance address_country.
<ciccio> I only defined one connection to the database and one to the application server. In forms, I chose the application server
<ciccio> sorry in the designer I chose the application server
<ciccio> If I choose the direct database connection, many tables show up, which I can't even see with \d in psql, including the one I created. Does this mean, that the designer can't use the application server?
<kilo> you should chose the [appserver] for appserver, not the direct ones.
<kilo> s/chose/choose
<ciccio> In that case, I can't see the table I created. Is this a bug in the designer?
<ciccio> Using the direct database connection, I get a gfd file which seems to work, but which doesn't allow me to insert a new Item (Edit/Insert New Record is disabled).
<kilo> no. the table you created is not in appserver. to put it in the appserver, you should use the GCD format (an XML format). see appserver's devguide for more.
<ciccio> does this render gnue-designer useless?
<kilo> edit/insert is disabled, that's ok. put some chars in an entry amd you can save it (ie Insert)
<ciccio> Yes. I had managed to insert a first item. But when I tried to insert a second one, the first one was overwritten rather than appended as a new record. the switch to edit button was not pressed and the button to create a new one is disabled.
<ciccio> Ah. Got it. I must not press the save button, but the insert button which is enabled as soon as there is something to save. sorry I was confused.
<kilo> yes. all data is cached so you dont have to press save each time
<ciccio> but back to the other issue. Does this mean, that I can't use gnue-designer using the application server? Will I have to type the XML stuff manually?
<kilo> you can. appserver must be running though. and then you select [appserver] as connection and choose from the classes known by appserver
<ciccio> Ah. the gcd file is used only to introduce my table to the appserver. Is this correct?
<kilo> yes
<ciccio> is this http://www.gnuenterprise.org/tools/appserver/docs/appserver_howto.pdf also deprecated?
<ciccio> Oops. Seems to be the same I already had (from march 2004) just having a different name.
<kilo> it is basically the same
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<lekma> hi everyone
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* johannesV_ has found a lot of leaks in common and appserver today but is still hunting some of them ...
<johannesV_> bbl
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<johannesV_> back again
<lekma> johannesV_: hunting leaks??
<lekma> :)
<johannesV_> lekma, yes
<johannesV_> indeed
<johannesV_> i've found a lot of them till now
<johannesV_> a big part has to do with calculated fields, especially with the PythonExecutionContext () in the python-adapter
<johannesV_> there were a lot of 'dead' refs lying around ...
<johannesV_> but also a lot of refs were broken in common's dbdriver
<johannesV_> where the single connections had a ref to the connections (manager) which never got freed
<johannesV_> i'm hunting the last bunch of leakin objects with appserver-processed conditions, if they're defined with dicts
<johannesV_> this is a bit strange, cause if a find () uses a prefixNotation-condition everything seems fine ...
<johannesV_> but i think i'll fix it quite soon ...
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<johannesV_> yeah ... strike
<johannesV_> looks like i've fixed the last leaks ..
* johannesV_ still testing
<johannesV_> yes, i think i can 'wipe-out' the debug-stuff and commit a non-leaking version of appserver/common
<johannesV_> reinhard, shall i leave the sigusr1-thingy in geasRpcServer, which fires the gc-debugging ?
<reinhard> johannesV_: yes, I think that would be a good idea
<johannesV_> ok, so i'll refine it a bit (so others could read and understand the code :)
<johannesV_> lekma, if you find some time, please svn up and do your tests again ...
<johannesV_> appserver should run without any leaks now
<lekma> i'll do this later tonight
<lekma> i'm eager to test
<johannesV_> great!
<lekma> are the fixes done by reinhard commited also??
<lekma> ie recursion pb
<lekma> and list id
<lekma> ?
<johannesV_> of course
<johannesV_> i did it against current svn
<lekma> ok
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<johannesV_> bbl
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<lekma> @@ -81,6 +81,10 @@
<lekma>        result [python_to_rpc (key, exception)] = python_to_rpc (val, exception)
<lekma>      return result
<lekma> +  # Binary
<lekma> +  elif isinstance (value, xmlrpclib.Binary):
<lekma> +    return xmlrpclib.Binary (value.data)
<lekma> +
<lekma> 
<lekma> small patch to typeconv.py to transport base64 encoded binaries over xmlrpc (python to rpc)
<lekma> the binary should already be an xmlrpc object
<lekma> which sucks
<lekma> but this can be a temp solution
<lekma> for people like me who have to do it
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<michael301080> hello
<michael301080> is anyone here?
<reinhard> michael301080: more or less yes
<lekma> johannesV: it seems you got rid of memory leaks
<lekma> bravo and thx
<michael301080> oh hello to all
<michael301080> I've been here a few times, but didn't find anyone here.
<michael301080> I've been interested in gnue for quite a while.
<michael301080> are there any case studies of it being implemented somewhere?
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<jamest_> michael301080: don't think so
<michael301080> jamest_: is a actually implemented somewhere (case study available or not)?
<michael301080> I mean are there companies that use GNUe on a day by day basis.
<jamest_> yes
<jamest_> it's the backend of our web order submission
<jamest_> our invoicing system
<jamest_> our inventory control system
<jamest_> every new program I write is based on common
<jamest_> i believe the appserver guys use it daily now as well
<jamest_> we have 33 front end forms hitting against our db directly that end users use
<michael301080> wow, that's great
<jamest_> several more only in use by me and my assistant
<michael301080> this should be known to more people...
<jamest_> well
<jamest_> all the apps are gnue-common based
<jamest_> but custom
<michael301080> what's your business, if I may ask?
<jamest_> insurance replacement
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<michael301080> ah
<jamest_> we work for insurance companies to replace damaged and stollen items
<michael301080> to what degree can you extend programs based on gnue-common?
<michael301080> eg: an app that talks bluetooth...
<michael301080>  or with a USB GPS device ...
<michael301080> or talking to a µC
<michael301080> is that kind of stuff possible?
<jamest_> i don't see how it'd be a problem
<michael301080> I want to implement an app that does the management of jumping competitions
<michael301080> do timing of jumping courses (= talking to µC)
<michael301080> manage the starting list of competitors (=pretty straightforward)
<michael301080> managing result lists and publish these to PDF files (is this more dificult?)
<michael301080> also putting the results to a website automatically
<michael301080> and have the app send info to a socket server so that other apps can see the info appear in real-time
<michael301080> are there things that you think that aren't possible with gnue?
<michael301080> I ask these questions because I'm pretty new to Python, and I don't really know my way around yet
<wendall911> most of the things you mentioned would require several external libraries. gnue isn't monolithic. All this stuff is fairly easy to do
<jamest_> common is a framework
<jamest_> completely optional
<michael301080> oh OK, so with importing the extra libraries it's possible
<jamest_> though using it as the base app gets you quite a few features out of the box for free
<jamest_> yes
<jamest_> common is a set of python modules
<jamest_> a few of which happen to be GClientApp and GServerApp
<jamest_> that give you lots of stuff out of the box
<jamest_> it doesn't really limit you in any way
<michael301080> uhu ...
<jamest_> for instance, after about a year off, i've restarted work on a pet project
<michael301080> that's nice to hear. thanks already for the info guys
<jamest_> where I'm writing a 3d RPG game engine based on soya3d and gnue-common
<michael301080> whow, that's nice
<jamest_> using gnue's xml object mappings, configuration system, trigger system, etc
<wendall911> jamest_: soya is nice
<jamest_> soya is evil!
<jamest_> at least to me at the moment :)
<jamest_> i had it working last year, until real life got too busy, now I'm porting up to the latest soya
<wendall911> heh, at least the rendering I've seen is very good
<jamest_> and it's really been brutal to my old design
<jamest_> soya is nice just i shouldn't have stopped for a year :)
<wendall911> jamest_: I've played with crystal space as well, it's very good also
<jamest_> that was my original 3d engine
<jamest_> i worked on the python support for a while
<jamest_> but soya code is soooo much easier to work with
<wendall911> jamest_: I must say that slune is pretty impressive though
<jamest_> its not even funny
<michael301080> jamest_: do you also use other parts of gnue?
<michael301080> like designer, navigator, ...
<michael301080> or do you use the app server?
<jamest_> the only thing I'm not using atm is appserver
<jamest_> and that's mainly cause I can't just graft it into my existing systems
<jamest_> it maintains the table structures automagically and I have a few older java apps that have to get to the data
<michael301080> does that mean you also use bayonne and report output to Hylafax?
<michael301080> probably not (just curious)
<jamest_> whoops, i don't use bayonne
<jamest_> but I do use hylafax
<michael301080> there also Asterisk of course
<michael301080> whow that's cool again...
<jamest_> and at previous job used gnue-reports to bulk fax out customized letters to schools across ks
<michael301080> Do you use it to automatically send reports to contacts or what?
<jamest_> via hylafax
<michael301080> do you still have a seperate accounting / bookkeeping application?
<michael301080> or is this functionality available in gnue?
<jamest_> our gl is quickbooks, but we do AR in a custom dbase app that I'm redoing in gnue
<michael301080> considering tax laws and legislation are different everywhere
<jamest_> but again, most this is custom
<michael301080> so you have the integration with quickbooks done in python / gnue?
<jamest_> not at all
<michael301080> oh, that's still seperate then..
<jamest_> my 1st stab at that will be trying to tie a gnue based timeclock
<jamest_> to quickbooks
<jamest_> for payroll
<michael301080> ah, I see
<jamest_> but i haven't a clue where to start (the timeclock is done)
<jamest_> as our owner wants people to time in/out at their desks
<jamest_> and the report I generate now will have to be re-entered manually into QB payroll
<michael301080> at there desks?
<jamest_> yes
<michael301080> so the employee runs the timeclock app and pushes the "now leaving" button?
<jamest_> more or less
<michael301080> ... on there PC or terminal
<jamest_> we're an LTSP shop
<michael301080> hey, that's super cool
<jamest_> except for the shipping computer and the QB computers
<michael301080> I have an LTSP server myself
<jamest_> we're also KDE
<jamest_> so I have a kde menu that is all our stuff
<jamest_> with a timeclock entry
<michael301080> I also have kde on my laptop
<jamest_> timeclock is a simple qt3/gnue based apps that prompts for username and has a time in /out button
<michael301080> can another employee time you in /out then ?
<jamest_> currently, yes
<jamest_> we're not actively using it atm
<michael301080> ah, I see
<jamest_> all it does now is hit our LDAP server to see if the user is valid
<jamest_> but it's no worse than the punch clock in the hall
<jamest_> this isn't in production yet
<michael301080> don't have any experience with that.
<jamest_> but we're planning to swtich to it once we complete a move into our new building
<jamest_> so this is very proof of concept
<michael301080> oh
<jamest_> the users can currently use it, the reports seem to work fine
<jamest_> but we don't actually pay based on it yet
<jamest_> hopefully by april we'll have switched over
<michael301080> nice
<jamest_> and more than likely i'll be tying it to real authentication
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<jamest_> as the others being able to clock in someone (cover for them) was an issue brought up by accounting
<michael301080> can't you "single sign on" ?
<jamest_> i don't
<jamest_> we have a single user id/passwd system wide
<michael301080> maybe fingerprint reader on every terminal then (LOL)
<jamest_> but I always make people login to things seperately
<jamest_> and I didn't want to slow down people logging in too much
<michael301080> Yeah, that way they remember there PW
<jamest_> as people tend to get to work at 1 minute till start
<michael301080> so you have lots of terminals booting at the same time
<jamest_> only about 25
<jamest_> we're moving as we're out of space
<jamest_> the new building will give us about 5 times the room
<jamest_> at which point the call center will support about 50
<michael301080> where are you located?
<jamest_> KS
<michael301080> I'm in Antwerp, Belgium
<michael301080> where is KS
<jamest_> sorry
<jamest_> Manhattan, KS USA
<michael301080> are you sys admin as well as programmer then?
<jamest_> yip
<jamest_> and hardware guy :)
<michael301080> great
* kilo spent honeymoon in Antwerp
<michael301080> I'm 24 now, into programming and little sys admin stuff
<michael301080> I'm planning on starting my own business
<michael301080> ***kilo: Had a nice honeymoon?
<reinhard> michael301080: you going to fosdem?
<kilo> aye, stayed at Novotel for a week (after a week in Gouda)
<wendall911> kilo: congrats
<kilo> wendall911: 't was 5 yrs ago 8-))) but anyway, thx
<wendall911> kilo: :)
<kilo> shouldre-run it...
<wendall911> kilo: My wife and I will be married 6 yrs in July and haven't ever went on a honeymoon
<wendall911> I can relate
<michael301080> reinhard: I probably should go, but I have to work
<kilo> hmm, will be 6 yrs too in May. damn
<michael301080> reinhard: I'm here to support the developers of gnue a bit :)
<jamest_> michael301080: reinhard is *the man* when it comes to appserver
<jamest_> and gnue in general as of late :)
<michael301080> I noticed it on the site.
<jamest_> he owns a business and has himself and a co-worker gnue'n a lot
<michael301080> thumbs up for reinhard :-D for a job well done
<reinhard> michael301080: if you go to fosdem meet me there on the fsf europe booth
<michael301080> Reinhard: Well, I hope I can make it on saturday.
<michael301080> Anyway, thanks for all the info guys...
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