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<dimas> hello reinhard
<dimas> how gnue db should be initialized for gnue-appserver/test.py to work?
<reinhard> hi dimas
<dimas> test.py depends on gnue_useraccess module in the backend
<reinhard> after normal gsetupdbcvs you have to run samples/setup-cvs-db.sh
<reinhard> it does?
<reinhard> let me check please
<reinhard> no, it doesn't (AFAICT)
<reinhard> works for me without gnue_useraccess
<dimas> i have dropped gnue and restored with just gsetupdbcvs
<dimas> reinhard: local changes again? :)
<reinhard> then you would need samples/setup-cvs-db.sh again
<reinhard> otherwise you have no address module there
<dimas> it was authentication = True in gnue.conf
<reinhard> ah ok
<reinhard> that's not the default, is it?
<reinhard> (shouldn't be)
<dimas> i want to set proper values from the script itself
<dimas> not only authentication but connection params also
<reinhard> not sure I understand
<dimas> how to overwrite custom setting in gnue.conf for test.py to run
<reinhard> you have authentication set in gnue.conf?
<reinhard> on purpose?
<reinhard> even though you don't have gnue_useraccess in your db?
<dimas> i have authentication set for other connections not gnue which is used as gefault for test.py
<dimas> and other examples
<reinhard> hmmm
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<reinhard> maybe the correct place to test authentication on client side would be connections.conf
<reinhard> not gnue.conf
<reinhard> I think I will look at changing that
<dimas> how a selfdoc could be generated? which types/options for selfdoc are supported? where to look about that?
<reinhard> dunno about selfdoc
<reinhard> you mean our epydoc?
<dimas> yes
<dimas> there is -selfdoc options for gnue scripts
<reinhard> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/
<reinhard> oh
<reinhard> didn't know that -selfdoc option
<reinhard> I think that's to generate a manpage
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<elwis> I was going to upload my helpless guide on the wiki, but got permission denied? Not trusted ;)
<reinhard> I think you can register yourself
<elwis> Yep, i'm registred but couldn't upload the file to "user manuals" topic?
* reinhard doesn't know much about the wiki
<reinhard> :(
<elwis> ok, is it Gabor who does?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> (kilo)
<elwis> I'll ask him next time he's online. I'll better try to do some coding until then, can't do documentation and translation all day ;)
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<reinhard> bbl
<jamest> reinhard: when you planning to release designer?
<jamest> i've started to document and clean up parts of designer but didn't care to check in until after the release
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<edo> Hello
<jamest> hi
<edo> jamest: please, do you know if there's a place to send transaction?
<jamest> send transaction?
<edo> I''ve just finished Italian translaction of gnue-common
<jamest> ah! the translation
<edo> .....yes :)
<edo> maybe I've done a lot of errors
<jamest> are you subscribed to any of the mailing lists?
<jamest> as I imagine gnue-dev@gnu.org would be a good one
<jamest> if not then go ahead and send there and I'll approve the posting
<jamest> instead of assuming it's SPAM :)
<edo> I've subscibed the ml, now I'll send it to the mailing list
<jamest> great
<edo> Thanks :)
<jamest> thank you
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<edo> Jamest, are you still there?, I've tryed to (re)install gnue-common via ./setup.py install but it say it can't cannot determine domain
<edo> so it's not installing the translation, should I specify something particular?
<reinhard> jamest: planning on releasing desinger as soon as translations are updated
<jamest> i know nothing about translations
<reinhard> AFAICT kilo already did hu
<jamest> but reinhard on the other hand is a master with them :)
<reinhard> edo: can you please give exact command you did and exact error message
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<jamest> reinhard: you here for a bit
<reinhard> not for long
<jamest> i'm wondering what version of wxWindows we want to stdize on?
<jamest> is the lack of 2.5.x support hurting us?
<reinhard> jamest: I don't care about wxWindows very much
<jamest> i wish I didn't but it's the basis for designer and navigation
<reinhard> AFAICT both win32 and gtk2 are in better shape than wx
<jamest> navigator
<reinhard> navigator has working win32 and gtk2 too IIRC
<reinhard> designer is a problem :)
<jamest> yes
<jamest> i know we spoke some the other day about my lack of sanity
<reinhard> edo: I think I know where your error message comes from
<reinhard> edo: you use svn, right?
<jamest> wrt the ui system, i also know we all want different base widget sets
<reinhard> edo: will try to fix later today
<jamest> i assume you'd want a designer in gtk2
<jamest> and i'd want it in qt
<jamest> and btami in win32
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> and in curses and with telephone interface via bayonne
<reinhard> ;-)
<jamest> what i'm trying to figure out is if it's worth the effort to port forms/designer to wx2.5
<reinhard> I'm probably the worst person to ask here
<jamest> or if that effort would be better spent seperating out the logic from the UI
<jamest> in designer
<jamest> then building seperate front ends
<reinhard> if you ask me directly, the latter
<jamest> or
<jamest> trying to use a front end like anyui for designer
<reinhard> anyui?
<reinhard> is that another ui abstraction?
<reinhard> then a clear no from me :)
<jamest> lol
<jamest> anygui would be a lot of work
<jamest> more than I think i'd ccare to do
<jamest> http://anygui.sourceforge.net/
<jamest> as it's semi functional
<jamest> but what's missing is huge
<edo> But, once I've the appserver up and running, can I use the navigator to "dive" into the modules already done right?, But may I set something particular?
<reinhard> jamest: anygui seems to be some kind of DBSIG2 approach for UIs
<jamest> it is
<reinhard> which is definately a good idea
<jamest> inspired by anydb python module
<reinhard> but nothing I'd want to put on my TODO list :)
<jamest> the author is willing to lend some assistance
<jamest> as i emailed him about the mythical 0.2 release
<jamest> but the project is dead ended as no one was interested
<reinhard> edo: you have to hand write a gpd file for use in navigator that contains the menu definition
<jamest> after all, who would be crazy enough to write software that uses multiple front end GUIs
<reinhard> erm
<reinhard> not us, would we?
<jamest> i don't think so
<jamest> never
<reinhard> bbl
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<derek> anyone install linux along side windows XP?
<derek> have first windows box in probably 5 years (and actually need to preserve it) but can't handle using it regularly
<derek> everything i am reading makes it sound like install linux alongside XP is asking for trouble
<derek> ajmitch: you mentioned there were ubuntu packages?
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<edo> Anyone have had problems getting the pstats from Debian?, Have you got Python from sources?
<jamest> edo?
<reinhard> edo: you would have to use the gnue-designer from sid or wait until it has moved to sarge
<reinhard> some parts from python have moved to non-free
<reinhard> wow
<reinhard> bug in python fixed that caused us quite some trouble with $LANGUAGE
<edo> Maybe was that the problem I've had reinstalling gnue-common with the it.po?
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> erm
<reinhard> you use common, not debian package of designer?
<edo> Anyway, I think the best think I can do with Python is installing it from source, to have all the libraries
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> you just should use current version of designer
<reinhard> current svn version
<edo> I'm upgrading it via svn, is it wrong?
<reinhard> no
<edo> "svn up", then ./setup.py install
<reinhard> but current svn of designer shouldn't need pstats any more
<edo> Good to know :)
<reinhard> but installing from svn is currently broken
<reinhard> but will fix that asap
<jamest> reinhard: profiler got removed?
<reinhard> moved to non-free
<jamest> no, i mean in common
<jamest> iirc that was part of the base app
<jamest> for --profile supprot
<reinhard> i think designer included it unconditionally
<reinhard> which made it not start at all if profiler wasn't available
* jamest thwaps wx
<jamest> code that works in 2.5.3 segfaults 2.4
<jamest> legal function call in both
<jamest> i think i will stop the port to 2.5.3
<jamest> and just work on cleanup
<jamest> reinhard: btw, what are you still doing here?
<jamest> :)
<reinhard> edo: committed your translation, thanks
<jamest> reinhard: per our discussion yday about common being too large
<jamest> sorry, got called away
<jamest> i was wondering if you mind that I continue (for now) to put stuff in there
<jamest> then maybe later we could break common apart into things like
<jamest> gnue.common.core
<jamest> gnue.common.printing
<jamest> or something like that
<reinhard> actually I'm not against adding new stuff to common at all as long as it wouldn't add new dependencies to common itself
<reinhard> so what I would not consider a good idea would be to put UI stuff into common
<jamest> oh then i misunderstood
<reinhard> of course it makes sense to split up common anyway
<jamest> i still wonder if common needs split up
<jamest> with database access seperate
<reinhard> and ajmitch already has somewhat prepared packages like
<reinhard> gnue-common-dbdriver-psycopg
<reinhard> gnue-common-dbdriver-mysql
<reinhard> etc
<reinhard> that can depend on the correct DBSIG2 bindings
<jamest> ok
<jamest> did the import hook in designer get moved to common?
<jamest> i seem to recall some discussion on that
<jamest> it doesn't appear to be but I wasn't sure why
<reinhard> this debugging output?
<jamest> yeah
<reinhard> I think jcater wanted to do it but didn't get around to it
<jamest> where it shows the imported modules
<reinhard> and he wanted to change it from a env variable to a command line parameter
<jamest> but by that point we'd have already loaded some modules
<reinhard> yea
<reinhard> but you could still simply do something like
<reinhard> if '--debug-imports' in sys.argv:
<reinhard> at the *very* start of processing
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> we'd still have to put that module at the front of our import list
<jamest> as in designer it imports StringIO and wx before it grabs client app
<reinhard> we could just do that in GDebug
<reinhard> GDebug is loaded before anything else (except sys)
<reinhard> via gnue base module __init__.py
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<reinhard> so we could maybe even use the output routines from GDebug
<reinhard> meaning we would get timestamps for the imports
<jamest> that's a good idea
<reinhard> which would be good for speeding up startup
<jamest> though i'm not real crazy about the classes being put in there
<jamest> as designer has them all at the top
<jamest> any reason I couldn't move then to common.apps or maybe a common.debug
<reinhard> np
* jamest wonders if debugging and profiling belong in their own section
<reinhard> I think they are closely related
<jamest> maybe a common.devel?
<jamest> with debug, profile, setup?
<reinhard> but I've been wanting to add a command line argument --debug-time
<reinhard> to be able to switch timestamp output on/off for debugging messages
<reinhard> hmm
<jamest> maybe logger also would go into that section as well
<jamest> i'm just thinking out loud
<reinhard> hmmm
<reinhard> still think they might also belong into apps
<reinhard> as they are actually related to GBaseApp
<reinhard> and the one doesn't work without the other (AFAICT)
<jamest> long term do they need to be?
<jamest> i'm also wondering if some things are too tightly coupled
<reinhard> they are probably
<jamest> as i've been thinking about your cleanups of children objects accessing parents
<jamest> and unless you're a lot further than I imagine i would guess common still does that way too much
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> I'm not further than you imagine :)
<reinhard> jamest: is it ok for you if I release designer now?
<jamest> please
<jamest> i'm still getting my feet wet w/ gnue again
<jamest> but i've got at least a few minor things fixed in designer
<jamest> a memory leak, and (oh yeah) some wx stuff I rolled back out
<jamest> so a memory leak! :)
<jamest> and docstrings
<reinhard> you wanna commit before release?
<reinhard> or want to wait?
<jamest> i'd rather not
<reinhard> ok
<jamest> its very minor dealing with the most recently used files manager
<derek> does designer have intellisense type functionality?
<jamest> never resets it's internal dict when it resets the menu
<derek> and can i use it to manage (gcds) or whatever they are called now a days
<jamest> no have intellisegfault technology
<jamest> s/have/we have
<jamest> it knows the worse time to segfault or lock up X
<derek> being doing some c# and mono coding lately
<reinhard> release running
<derek> language wise it is nothing great and .net is mostly hype
<derek> but monodevelop and visualstudio both have nice IDE features that we could learn from
<reinhard> jamest: btw releasing is a piece of cake now, you could well take over release management for forms and designer again
<jamest> derek: better than netbeans or eclipse?
<jamest> as those puppies rock my socks
<jamest> reinhard: ok, i am going to need a little time to get back up to speed though
<derek> dont know
<derek> i could never get eclipse to install (java bites)
<jamest> netbeans is what I use for java now
<derek> is it worth a crap?
<derek> iirc just components
<jamest> i'd kill for an editor like that in python
<derek> i would have lot easier time selling gnue with super strong designer
<jamest> and i think gnue should offer a platform like it
* derek desperately wants to get back to gnue
<derek> but freaking soccer club is exploding
<derek> we are now almost a $1million dollar a year non profit
<jamest> ask reinhard :)  i gave him an earful last week
<reinhard> hehe
<derek> it is sucking every last minute out of me
<derek> good news is i am now needing to write some software for our operations
<derek> and i would like to use gnue
<jamest> shit!
<jamest>  /msg reinhard: ok, that's it.  i'm out again
<derek> the big thing i have been thinking about is in C# you can do web applications
<derek> and it is kind of nice
<reinhard> jamest: rofl
* derek hates web applications
<derek> but you can do enough to make the 5% of things that make good web applications without a ton of work
<jamest> i fully *get* jan's idea of a web javascript forms now (too late of course)
<derek> and don't have to learn another language/environment to do them
<derek> i.e. i find myself writing quick little php things to have "web interfaces" to larger applications
<derek> anyhow just a thought
<jamest> what thought?
* jamest is lost
<derek> when i was sitting in C# class i almost converted reports to C#(mono)
<derek> just to see what it was like
<derek> thought was make gnue do simple web "forms"
<reinhard> edo: your problem with setup.py install should now be fixed if you svn up to latest version
<derek> it has been on the todo list for a long time, but i see more value now
<derek> before i just hated web applications and didn't think it was worth putting much effort into
<derek> now i see there being moderate value for "web extensions" to real applications :)
<derek> i am trying to get this laptop to be dual boot (without crushing XP)
<derek> at which time i hope to install a gnue environment
<derek> are any of you using ssh tunneled database connections?
<derek> at one time jcater had this working well
<jamest> nope
<jamest> but it shouldn't be hard
<derek> i could really use somethign like that in place of "web applications" for the soccer club
<derek> ssh2 was a bitch to get it working well
<jamest> odd
<derek> i would love to see that functionality in gnue-common
<derek> or as an extension to database drivers
<derek> basically detection / configuration of "remote" databases
<derek> jcater had it working fairly well for sshv1
<jamest> um
<jamest> ssh -L 5432:rdbmshost:5432  remotesite
<jamest> psql -h localhost  remotedbname
<jamest> worked perfectly in ssh2
<jamest> i just tried it
<reinhard> leaving for church now
<reinhard> have a nice easter weekend
<reinhard> might be here sunday afternoon or so
<reinhard> but not sure
<reinhard> l8r all
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<edo> Going, nice easter all!
<jamest> l8r
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<derek> all i know is ubuntu just works!
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