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<dimas> good morning
<reinhard> good morning
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<btami> good morning
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<reinhard> rynik: please do not send patches to me privately
<reinhard> gnue-dev@gnu.org is the correct address
<rynik> OK, sorry
<reinhard> I will commit this one anyway :)
<reinhard> but for future
<reinhard> you can never be sure I read my mails - I might be offline for some days or so
<reinhard> so a mailing list is always better than a private address
<reinhard> and, of course, above all, thanks for the patch :-)
<rynik> np :)
<rynik> Ops, what happened?
<rynik> ~/gnue$ svn update
<rynik> svn: Berkeley DB error while opening environment for filesystem /var/svn/gnue/db :
<rynik> DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
<rynik> svn: bdb: PANIC: fatal region error detected; run recovery
<reinhard> rynik: same problem here
<reinhard> will try to fix it
<reinhard> hrm.....
<reinhard> seems like we need jcater or jamest :(
<rynik> Did the server run out of diskspace or was my patch just lethal and mean?
<kilo_> we used to get this error seomtimes
<kilo_> something is confused in svn's brain
<kilo_> and you need to talk it down with him...
<reinhard> lol
<reinhard> but yes that pretty much sums it up :)
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<rynik> Can I use the session funclions from inside a .gcd procedure?
<rynik> Like:
<rynik> session.New() and session.commit()
<kilo_> you can use them like new() and commit()
<rynik> Like: nameOfClass.New(...)?
<rynik> I mean if it's another class in the same module.
<kilo_> lke
<kilo_> jov = new('PAYROLL_Jovedelem')
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<rynik> if a appserver procedure runs into an abort, can I catch that, like raise is cought with try?
<reinhard> abort is just an exception
<rynik> So, except AbortRequest will catch it, right?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> (I think that was the name of the exception, yes)
<reinhard> but you have to import that first
<rynik> I found it in Base.py
<reinhard> the AbortRequest exception name
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<rynik> There is no way to determin what caused the abort, is there?
<reinhard> rynik: it looks to me as if you'd actually want to rise a different exception than abort
<rynik> Yes, your rigtht, it seems I'm a bit narrowminded. I'm not allways sure what execution environment I'm in when coding inside a appserver procedure.
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<reinhard> rynik: you can basically do whatever python allows
<reinhard> you can raise any exception you like
<reinhard> however you have to be aware that when an uncaught exception occurs, appserver aborts the current transaction and throws the exception up to the user
<rynik> I'm beginning to understand that. Is there any (other) predefined exceptions? In my case it would be like a primaryKeyException
<reinhard> not that I'm aware of
<reinhard> actually I would recommend to be cautious about randomly accessing code you find somewhere in gnue unless they are clearly defined as public interface
<reinhard> or you might risk your application breaking if we do some reorganisation of the code (and for example move some definitions of classes we consider internal from one point to another)
<reinhard> however I see that it's hard to tell what we consider internal and what we don't currently :-)
<reinhard> and we are of course working on that :)
<reinhard> bbl
<rynik> cu
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<rynik> What is the CDATA thing?
<rynik>          <procedure name="OnChange" >
<rynik>            <![CDATA[
<rynik> I found it encapsulate the body of one of the examples in appserver dev.guide.examples
<rynik> s/dev.guide.examples/dev.guide
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<kilo_> if you use < or > int he trigger code or procedure code, you need to wrap the code in CDATA wrapper
<kilo_> otherwise the parser cannot read it correclty
<kilo_> as it will think it is part of an xml tag: <something>
<rynik> I see, Thank you kilo.
<kilo_> yw
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<rynik> Can someone pleas explain where the adressed procedures would be in respect to the calling procedure in these examples?
<rynik>      self.foo ()
<rynik>      self.bar (baz = 17)
<rynik>      self.customer.doit (really = True)
<rynik>      self.invoice.customer.doSomething (text = "foo", other = "bar")
<rynik> s/pleas/please
<rynik> I'll try myself:
<rynik> 1. A procedure in the same class.
<rynik> 2. Well, same as 1
<rynik> 3. A procedure in a different class but in the same module.
<rynik> 4. A procedure in a different module.
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<rynik> jamest, jcater_: Did you notice the error when one tries to 'svn update'?
<reinhard> rynik: 4 is same as 3 but with a further indirection step
<reinhard> self.invoice would be an object, customer a property of that pointing to a third object, and that third object has a method called doSomething
<reinhard> if it was different module you would have a _
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<rynik> jamest, jcater_: Did you notice the error when one tries to 'svn update'?
<jamest> nope
<jamest> i need a few minutes then I can look
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<jamest> should be ok now
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<aries_mindworks> hi
<aries_mindworks> I've a problem with reports and gcdcvs
<aries_mindworks> gnue-reports labels.grd
<aries_mindworks> DB000:    File "/home/aries/GNUe/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/reports/base/GRSources.py", line 62, in __initConnections
<aries_mindworks> DB000:     object.connect()
<aries_mindworks> DB000:  AttributeError: GRDataSource instance has no attribute 'connect'
<aries_mindworks> a sample from the reports
<aries_mindworks> any hint?
<mnemoc> afaihs it's not safe to mix svn and releases :)
<reinhard> aries_mindworks: looks like you mix svn common with release reports
<reinhard> and mnemoc is right :)
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<mnemoc> hi reinhard :)
<reinhard> hi mnemoc :)
<rynik> reinhard, did you get the patch I sent to gnue-dev?
<rynik> kilo, did you get the patch I sent an hour ago? I'm just checking because you didn't last time, remember?
<kilo> aye, got it
<rynik> Good.
<kilo> but i think i leave this to reinhard now
<rynik> Right, at least I know the address works.
<aries_mindworks> hi kilo
<kilo> szia!
<aries_mindworks> grcvs --filter=html labels.grd
<aries_mindworks> DB000:    File "/home/aries/GNUe/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/reports/base/GRFilters.py", line 62, in loadFilter
<aries_mindworks> DB000:     raise FilterError, \
<aries_mindworks> DB000:  FilterError: Unable to find a filter definition for GNUe:Reports:Labels:html
<aries_mindworks> without --filter, it's ok
<reinhard> rynik: you rock! thanks for the doc patch
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<aries_mindworks> bye
<aries_mindworks> w
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<rynik> mnemoc, what was this about a global gDebug, did you use it?
<rynik> jcater but you can just use the global gDebug now, i think
<rynik> mnemoc thanks
<rynik> mnemoc DevelopersGuide references it from gnue.common
<mnemoc> rynik: isnide gnue-apps it is global
<rynik> Should the dev-guide be revised?
<rynik> s/revised/updated
<mnemoc> absolutly :)
<rynik> I'm on it. Just have to find out how gDebug is supposed to be used first. :-)
<rynik> someone, if I use this option:
<rynik> --debug-level 5
<rynik> and have this in the code
<rynik> gDebug(5,'The value to be printed is %s' % self.ARGUMENTS[0])
<rynik> Shouldn't I get the debug output?
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<rynik> I just solved the gDebug problem I had so never mindf. btw
<rynik> I just solved the gDebug problem I had so never mind. btw Hi btami
<btami> hi rynik
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<Margo> Hi.  I am trying to find some old threads from KC#4.  They are in [gnue-geas] but the archive link http://lists.gnue.org/mailman/listinfo is not available.  Are they anywhere else?  Thanks...Thanks also for anyone who sent me back those GNUe surveys...
<reinhard> Margo: it might well be that those archives are not available any more
<Margo> OK.  Thanks...
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<dsmith> Hey
<chillywilly> howdy
<dsmith> chillywilly: In Owatonna Minesota
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> why?
<dsmith> Training
<chillywilly> the vikings still suck, btw
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> training for what?
<dsmith> What are vikings?
<chillywilly> the NFL team in MN
<dsmith> Ahh.  A sports team.
<dsmith> PEG
<chillywilly> yea, I do watch american football
<chillywilly> PEG?
<dsmith> A graphics packages.
<chillywilly> oh
<dsmith> Embedded.
<chillywilly> weird
<dsmith> ALso X and w32
<dsmith> Non Free
<chillywilly> why are you getting training about that?
<chillywilly> you doign luser interfaces now?
<dsmith> THey have put me on a product that uses it.
<chillywilly> doing
<chillywilly> no more embedded linux eh?
<chillywilly> why don't people just start up their own embedded linux companies ;)
<dsmith> Some kind of automatic refigerant replacement system.
<chillywilly> weird
<dsmith> Robinair is the brand name.
<dsmith> Getthis,
<dsmith> I lost my drivers license in the airport.
<chillywilly> bah
<dsmith> (after I got through the chekpoint. Whew)
<chillywilly> I'm going on vacation anf leaving Friday for FL
<dsmith> They finally found it. It's been fed-exed here.
<dsmith> FL
<dsmith> !
<chillywilly> yeppers
<chillywilly> disney world, sea world, and universal studios
<chillywilly> going to hit up those places with my family
<dsmith> Cool. (If you like that sort of thing)
<dsmith> Very cool.
<chillywilly> it's fun
<chillywilly> we're staying ina  really nice resort
<chillywilly> my mom has a time share
<chillywilly> we're going with her
<chillywilly> so it will be us 4
<dsmith> I didn't like FL when I went there.  I missed my fall colors.
<chillywilly> mom, caroline, scotty, and I
<chillywilly> going to drive down there in my Saturn L300
<dsmith> How old is Scotty now?
<chillywilly> 7
<dsmith> He'll enjoy it.
<chillywilly> yea, I also want to go see the star wars movie when we are down there ;)
<chillywilly> the resort is supposed to have a movie theater in it
<dsmith> Is it out yet?
<chillywilly> it will be on the 19th
<dsmith> ok
<chillywilly> next week thursday
<chillywilly> what about getting a job for lineo? ;)
<chillywilly> s/for/with/
<chillywilly> don't they do embedded linux :)?
<dsmith> I need to send in a resume to a local company that does VXI stuff
<chillywilly> don't know what that is either
<dsmith> vme based bus stuff
<chillywilly> what's the diff between that and pci?
<chillywilly> are they doing embedded linux?
<chillywilly> http://www.vxibus.org/
<chillywilly> found it ;)
<chillywilly> so it's a better bus than pci?
<chillywilly> very fast switching and all that fun stuff
<dsmith> FOr measuremnet? Oh yes.
<dsmith> The spec covers a lot of envirenmnetal aspcets too.
<dsmith> Like temps and noise emissions.
<chillywilly> I've been thinking of getting back into the embedded development scene
<chillywilly> screw business software ;)
<dsmith> Embedded is cool.
<chillywilly> it's boring me to pieces lately
<dsmith> Yes indeed.
<chillywilly> and I need to be around more technically savvy people
<chillywilly> too many dipshits in the business world
<chillywilly> ;P
<dsmith> Where are you again? Wisconson?
<chillywilly> yep
<dsmith> I'd love to have a company that does embedded Linux stuff.
<chillywilly> problem is you need EE's too ;)
<dsmith> There are several people I know who would be very good at it.
<chillywilly> how are your circuit design skills?
<dsmith> None.  Well, I've dabbled at it a few times.
<dsmith> The other Linux dude at work is an ee.
<dsmith> He's love to Linux stuff again.
<dsmith> I do know a great ee.
<dsmith> Bill Mohat.
<dsmith> Works for Telos systems.
<dsmith> It's getting the contracts that's the problem.
<dsmith> I've no buisness sense at all.
<dsmith> Just a geek.
<chillywilly> yea...
<chillywilly> and most business people have no technical sense
<chillywilly> they are freakin dumbasses :)
<chillywilly> oops, did I type that..
<dsmith> chillywilly: vme bus is an old motorola standard bus, used a lot in industrial control an military.
<dsmith> It's what was in the old Sun 3's
<dsmith> The 68k based suns
<dsmith> Lots of motion controllers, that sorta thing.
<dsmith> http://www.vxitech.com/PRESS/Employment.html
<dsmith> That's it.
<dsmith> Oh man.
<chillywilly> yea?
<chillywilly> heh, they have google maps integrated
<chillywilly> going to move to CA?
<dsmith> No. Valley View OH.
<dsmith> 20min or so
<dsmith> from where I live.
<dsmith> Maybe 30
<dsmith> It's just perfect.
<chillywilly> heh, already looking for a new job eh?
<dsmith> Oh yeah.
<dsmith> For months now.
<dsmith> Ever since we got bought.
<chillywilly> blah
<dsmith> It's the little things.
<chillywilly> yea
<dsmith> Like we can't wear jeans anymore.
<chillywilly> I heard that my bosses are thinking of hiring an "IT Manager"
<dsmith> And we need to be in at certain hours.
<chillywilly> so I am not happy
<chillywilly> yuck
<dsmith> I spend most of my time messing with m$ Project
<chillywilly> geez
<chillywilly> that tool is frickin usless
<chillywilly> if you ask me
<dsmith> And doing paperwork.
<chillywilly> I'd like to cram it up someone's ass...
<dsmith> I told the one guy I'd like to transfer to be a Software Enginner.
<dsmith> Maybe I'd get to write some code.
<dsmith> (THat's what I am, btw)
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> did they enjoy your sarcasm? ;)
* chillywilly watches as the mail piles up in his INBOX
<dsmith> Oh yeah.
<dsmith> So how *is* gnue doing these days?  ANyone actually using it yet?
<chillywilly> I dunno
<chillywilly> I think GNUe needs some serious commercial backing to crack into the market as the ERP market is too secretive...but that's my opinion ;)
<mnemoc> and kick SAP out of the market!
<dsmith> How stable is it?  You can't run a company on something that's changing.
<chillywilly> *thwap*
<chillywilly> I don't think you can run any kind of a comapny on it right now
<chillywilly> but I am kinda out of the loop
<chillywilly> so what do I know
<dsmith> heh
<chillywilly> it's still a project with very lofty goals...kinda hard to slay the large dragons when you have no one there to fund those initiatives as it seems the developers are only scratching their own itches as far as needs/features go (which is not necessarily a bad thing)
* chillywilly talks out of his ass ;)
<mnemoc> uhm
<chillywilly> I dunno, writign business software is not very secksy
<chillywilly> writing
<dsmith> Ahh, but it's supposed to "pay the bills" and all that.
<chillywilly> how so?
<dsmith> It's the dirty work that needs to get done.
<dsmith> Buisness need to do buisness.
<chillywilly> you have to have a lot of experts in a lot of industries, imho
<dsmith> What about ibm?
<dsmith> What did I just read on /. ?
<chillywilly> that would work...just don't know if they are into the ERP game
<chillywilly> what did you read?
<dsmith> You gotta be kidding
<dsmith> IBM is all over that stuff.
<dsmith> Or they were.
<chillywilly> if you say so ;)
<chillywilly> what is their ERP platform called?
<dsmith> gluecode
<chillywilly> IMB Buys Gluecode
<dsmith> I don't know about erp platforms.
<chillywilly> wth is application management though?
<dsmith> Dunno. But it sounds buisnessy
<chillywilly> it's all Java though ;)
<chillywilly> blech
<chillywilly> :)
<dsmith> Someone needs to set them straight.
<chillywilly> maybe I should just become a Java head ;)
<dsmith> I'm  gonna learn c#
<chillywilly> you're sick ;)
<dsmith> My boss said so.
<chillywilly> great...
* mnemoc prefer c# over java
<dsmith> So, I apt-get install mono
<dsmith> And mess about with libglade
<dsmith> Works.
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<dsmith> Actually, I prefer it over java too.
<chillywilly> it's just a J2EE application server
* dsmith rewrites all of gnue in scheme while cw goes on vacation.
<chillywilly> lisp is only good for AI or "expert" systems
<chillywilly> :)
<dsmith> And yahoo store.
<chillywilly> what do they use it for?
<chillywilly> I bet it is used for some rules based system with thousands of variables
<dsmith> The whole of yahoo store was written in lisp.
<chillywilly> that's sick
<mnemoc> ack
<chillywilly> is it RESTful?
<dsmith> REad some stuff by Paul Graham
<chillywilly> cause I think I am about sick and tired of everything perverting the resource framework that is the web :)
<chillywilly> *everyone
<chillywilly> hmmm, apache software foundation has too many java heads
<dsmith> http://www.paulgraham.com/
<dsmith> I think you are right.
<dsmith> Seems like everything at apache.org is java
<dsmith> Why?
<chillywilly> dunno
<chillywilly> geronimo has never been officially released
<chillywilly> there's a lo fo broken links on the project page
<chillywilly> lot of
<chillywilly> http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/CACM-frameworks.html
<chillywilly> http://www.laputan.org/drc/drc.html
<chillywilly> I really like twisted python as a framework
<chillywilly> the reactor pattern is pretty cool
<dsmith> chillywilly: http://www.paulgraham.com/iflisp.html
<dsmith> chillywilly: Actually: http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html
<chillywilly> If the pointy-haired boss had to think about the problem in its full complexity, it would make his brain explode.
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> "It's 2002, and programming languages have almost caught up with 1958."
<chillywilly> "reading at runtime enables programs to communicate using s-expressions, an idea recently reinvented as XML."
<chillywilly> maybe I should read that MIT LISP book on their open courseware site
<chillywilly> Lisp looks strange not so much because it has a strange syntax as because it has no syntax; you express programs directly in the parse trees that get built behind the scenes when other languages are parsed, and these trees are made of lists, which are Lisp data structures.
<chillywilly> I can't really follow that
<chillywilly> lisp really makes me think way too hard ;)
<chillywilly> maybe that's why I don't like it ;)
<chillywilly> ah, I had to read that several times
<chillywilly> oooh, writign programs that write programs
<dsmith> chillywilly: Anyway, that guy writes pretty clearly from the scheme/lisp viewpoint.
<dsmith> chillywilly: Python is cool.
<dsmith> Don't get me wrong.
<mnemoc> i hated python, but i'm getting used to it
<dsmith> Yeah, I hated it at first too.
<dsmith> Then I read that article in Linux Journal by esr and I gave it another try.
<mnemoc> esr wrote about python??
<mnemoc> http://www2.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 :D
<chillywilly> dsmith: this guy argues that s-expressions are equivalent to xml, how true is that in reality?
<dsmith> Both are tree structures.  You can convert from one to the other 1<->1
<dsmith> But s-exprs are more compact
<chillywilly> ok
<dsmith> Becuse you don't have the redundant end-tag
<dsmith> <foo>stuff</foo>  ->  (foo "stuff")
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> (defun foo (n) (lambda (i) (incf n i)))
<dsmith> IN scheme: (define (foo n) (lambda (i) (set! n i)))
<chillywilly> why the difference?
<dsmith> Scheme is cleaner and more regular and simpler.
<dsmith> Lisp has defvar and defun and dev<otherstuff>
<dsmith> Scheme has define
<dsmith> Anything that mutates in scheme should end with !
<dsmith> Like set!
<dsmith> Just a naming convention.
<dsmith> Or IN scheme: (define foo (lambda (n) (lambda (i) (set! n i))))
<dsmith> Same thing.
<chillywilly>  Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp
<dsmith> Greensomebodys Tenth Law
<chillywilly> lexical scoping confuses me
<chillywilly> brb
<dsmith> ok
<nickr> =
<dsmith> Dynamic scope is what's on the stack, lexical scope is what's in the source.
<chillywilly> well, the whole closures thing is brain melting ;)
<dsmith> Perl has closures.
<chillywilly> I know
<dsmith> I thought python does too.
<dsmith> Maybe not.
<chillywilly> wtf is a closure again?
<dsmith> It's like a local variable that hangs around.
<chillywilly> can you do embeddd development is lisp ;P?
<chillywilly> would you want to?
<nickr> lisp is considered pretty lean, the interpreter could be simple
<dsmith> Yeah, someone put scheme in the Linux kernel.  Good for debugging drivers.
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly>  The IBM 704 CPU was about the size of a refrigerator, but a lot heavier. The CPU weighed 3150 pounds, and the 4K of RAM was in a separate box weighing another 4000 pounds. The Sub-Zero 690, one of the largest household refrigerators, weighs 656 pounds.
<nickr> neat
<chillywilly> http://www.norvig.com/design-patterns/
<chillywilly> "closures are behaviors with attached state data and without the overhead of classees"
* dsmith nods
<chillywilly> whatever the hell that means :)
<mnemoc> head movement to say "agree"
<dsmith> Code with data.
<chillywilly> I know what a nod is mr. smart ass :)
<dsmith> lol
<dsmith> more lol
<dsmith> Thanks.  I needed that!
<chillywilly> heh
<mnemoc> :D
<dsmith> chillywilly: Not trying to convert you, just giving some perspective.
<chillywilly> it's something I have been meaning to learn anyway
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