*** btami has joined #gnuenterprise *** slicli has joined #GnuEnterprise greetings anyone around? hello slicli hi all hey dimas and btami ive been evalutating crm/erp systems for about a year now and came across gnuent tonight it looks very interesting do they have a list of clients? have to note gnue has no erp/crm ready yet, just tools to develop them ah the plan is to develop them with our tools, but we have too few peeps from business land with IT skills to start erp/crm :( has anyone heard how microsofts attempt at crm has been received? not me btaim...so what type of person would you/they need? who knows business processes and wants to develop a free erp/crm CIO of a medium to large business that grew up thru the IT ranks? dunno... do the people that develop for gnue have day jobs and moonlight this? yep cool for some gnue is part of their day job ah, k...how many people are involved? some of us has our micro business, and we are self employed * dimas has nano.. there is a core team derek/jamest/jcater/reinhard/johannesv k and meny contributors, like me and dimas k...what is the corp structure? std c corp? http://www.gnuenterprise.org/community/contrib.php i don't understand c corp ? incorporated, partnership, or sole prop...if its incorporated, do you what structure they are, like a Limited Liability Corp (LLC), or the original C corp, or the newest S corp? my business is a LLC slicli: what is your native lang? english :) is that what you meant? yep, my is hungarian so be careful ah...that is really neat, it is an honor to meet you :) hehe lol i love meeting people from other countries sometime i understand english with wery low level... so are you irc'ing in hungarian with your client translating? or do you konw english? especially when one use "C corp, S corp" ah...yeah, very understandable i like to learn english, but i'm 43, so it's not too easy online translation make it even harder and funny yeah, i know what you mean...especially if you dont have to speak and listen to it all day long. I wanted to learn hebrew and ancient greek but it was just too hard i bet slicli: mine native is russian i'v learned russian rom 8-20 (age) wow!, this is great!...its an honor to meet you as well but forgot it it was a must in a communist era here btami: it could be learned only under dictatorship :) hehe :) you guys are funny slicli: im glad to meet you too thanks so i have fully implemented the following CRM products: Footprints by Unipress (www.unipress.com) TeamTrack by Serena Software (www.serena.com) CRM, DevTrack, DevTest, ServiceWise, MarketingWise, SalesWise, ServiceWise, and DownloadPlus by TechExcel (www.techexcel.com) so far, TechExcel's suite has been the best but it is really expensive what you mean in "fully implemented"? i contacted the company that makes the product and they gave me a 90 day fully functional evaluation version. I then set it up and customized it for my company and used it as if it were in production to get a better idea of what i really needed and please do not hesitate to ask a question if i am unclear for how large team it was used? it was designed for a company with 50 employees, and the most important thing for me was that it could scale very quickly and techexcel's is the only one that can scale the crm system we need must be able to scale to >10,000 employees very very quickly and 100,000 quickly with the capablity of supporting 1,000,000 emp's and i was looking for new companies...not established ones like bahn or sap that's big yeah...it really is huge currently i use gnue in 3-guys team nice...how scalable is it? the limit is in missed features mostly in our custom modules k, do you hae an example? *** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise good morning good morning hello johannesV slicli: gnue has not released any erp packages yet you can look on some examples in gnue-contrib we have something of the same scale it is mostly contact manager for now and features to register requests and work done *** iro has joined #gnuenterprise btami, regarding your xmlrpc-error ... i don't have a python2.3.4 available here .. oldest version is 2.3.5 and there it's working fine ... hmm. can you try to trace the problem (using client.py/server.py) a little bit more ? like reducing elements in the roundtrip-dict .. to find out which key is problematic hows this project coming along? it is going (as we know that there were some bugs in python.2.3.4-xmlrpclib regarding marshalling and unmarshalling ) johannesV: i will ok, great, thanks btw, i've recieved an iMac G5 yesterday ... cool this means i can check out gnue on mac os x tiger ... great yeah, i'm very curious too ... it's a lovely machine ... johannesV: sarge contains 2.3.5, maybe i will upgrade to 2.3.5 in my distro btami, rigth, this is the reason why i can't get a 2.3.4 here ... (i'm using sarge and ubuntu only) dimas: what version of python in your distro? [ds@exodus doc]$ python Python 2.3.3 (#1, Jul 5 2004, 13:54:49) when will gnue support languages other than python? i think we should give it a try to find out why 2.3.4 isn't working (wrt xmlrpc) oh, wow, dimas' version is even older :) dimas: can you try it what should i do? was it discussed here? btami_, could you double-check with common/rpc/server.py and common/rpc/client.py (startet with gcvs server.py xmlrpc) that simple testcase sends a dictionary with all kinds of type to a roundtrip dimas, are you using latest svn ? (at least from common) as i'm rewriting rpc-layer (for improvments in speed and security) should i update? iro: whan one will add the support for it, gnue is ready for that, it supports ECMA script too iirc the current implementation should fork a new process per connection (keeping the connection up till the end of the session) instead of processing every request (rpc) within a new connection (socket) dimas, do not update if you're using it in production ... :) i can save common/ branch before update should that test work with old code? [ds@exodus rpc]$ gcvs server.py xmlrpc Starting server ... hello hello aj dimas, to the outside nothing should be changed ... so still should work with old code (grpc is no longer in use) hi ajmitch hi ajmitch * ajmitch finally got around to packaging recent releases :) just reports & navigator to upload requires a debian/ubuntu patch for wx though dimas: try "gcvs client.py xmlrpc" too please wow, max os x tiger shipped with python2.3.5 installed :) that's a surprise? or are you surprised that it's not 2.4? ajmitch, i'm a mac-user since yesterday ... so everything within mac-world is new to me :)) well, 2.3.5 is fine to me heh not ubuntu anymore? :) anybody already using gnue on mac ? of course ntiffin I won't ever give up my debian and ubuntu :) the mac is just a fine addition * ajmitch is finally a full ubuntu maintainer now and it helps to kill all win-machines in my network s/kill/remove does client.py require running appserver? johannesV: I'll sync the latest updates into ubuntu universe, once they're all into debian * johannesV phone gnue-forms is still sitting in the NEW queue due to a package rename (gnue-forms-wxgtk->gnue-forms) dimas: no, just server.py * johannesV back ok [ds@exodus rpc]$ gcvs client.py xmlrpc stringtest: u'"This" is a string' ustringtest: "àâáä" is a unicode string inttest: 21 * 2 = 42 floattest: 123.45 * 2 = 246.90000000000001 *** dimas has quit IRC *** dimas has joined #gnuenterprise dimas, do you get an exception from xmlrpclib at the end ? it was huge shuttding down server was the last message ok, so it's working fine on you 2.3.3 that's great ... :) sigh looks like the btami's bug was introduced in python2.3.4's xmlrpclib it was with old code ah :))) have not updated yet ok, so that's something completely different then should i now? dimas, if you like to and if you've some spare time left ... :) doing... Updated to revision 7891. [ds@exodus rpc]$ gcvs server.py xmlrpc Building adapter(s) for {'xmlrpc': {'servertype': 'forking', 'port': 8765}} ... Traceback (most recent call last): File "server.py", line 165, in ? servers = bind (drivers, servertest ()) File "server.py", line 58, in bind result [interface] = driver.ServerAdapter (service, params) TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 4 arguments (3 given) dimas, that looks like there are some old .pyc lying around or the update failed ... ? most probably a .pyc *** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise there is no xmlrpc error is it working now, i mean you don't get an exception yet ? btami: how it behaves on your side? is client.py ok too? server is working it's ok here too client seems too sigh what? so the ball is on my side *** iro has quit IRC *** johannesV has quit IRC *** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise johannesV: the problem is all keys in a roundtrip dict (except None) are comes back as UnicodeType, and xmlrpclib.py doesn't accepts just StringType if i change the code in xmlrpclib.py to enable unicode too, it's OK in the dump_struct() http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Lib/xmlrpclib.py?r1=1.29.6.1&r2=1.29.6.2 bbl *** btami has quit IRC for the logs: btami, please svn up and try again ... i think xmlrpc will work with your 2.3.4 now ... bbl *** jamest has joined #gnuenterprise good morning jamest morning question: if you have a master/detail and you want the detail records per master to be numbered i.e. if there are details with number 10, 20, 30 and you insert a new detail it gets number 40 (step 10 is a fixed parameter) how would you do that? isn't there a block level on new record trigger? that was my first thought, too hi reinhard but it would make the new record "modified" immediately, wouldn't it? hi ajmitch i was thinking there was a boolean you could pass in when setting a value that would prevent the record from being marked as dirty which was so that default="" wouldn't mark it dirty looks like the trigger set functions don't support that argument but it would be real handy if they did as upon reflection I think i have a form where that bites me once in a while and i have a pre commit trigger verify certain fields are filled prior to commiting that record but that's a kludge actually I think the better way would be to reset the record to "clean" after the on new record trigger, wouldn't it? yes that would probably be better where IMHO to cleanest solution was when the RecordSet called the trigger instead of the block I mean it would remain a block trigger, but fired initially by the newly created RecordSet like the OnCommmit* triggers are now there might be a trigger there now i can't recall i know there is a trigger like that somewhere :) but it makes me no difference if it's block or datasource level in the gfd * jamest hopes he understands what you were saying currently, GFBlock.newRecord contains these lines: if self._resultSet.insertRecord (self._lastValues): self._recordCount = self._resultSet.getRecordCount() # Focus in self.processTrigger('PRE-FOCUSIN') self.processTrigger('ON-NEWRECORD') self.processTrigger('POST-FOCUSIN') ------- now I would prefer the ON-NEWRECORD to be fired by the _resultSet.insertRecord automatically so the block doesn't have to 'manually' reset the record to clean but instead the record could do all of that internally *** jcater has joined #gnuenterprise so the block would pass the defined trigger to the resultSet? no the resultSet now can generate events on the block object oh, ok i think that sounds fine to me the resultSet would e.g. generate a "dsRecordInserted" event for which the block calls the ON-NEWRECORD trigger if you look in GFBlock lines 228 ff you can see how it works for other events now in any case, result would be that any action done in ON-NEWRECORD would leave the record as "not dirty" and I was wondering if that was acceptable/desirable fine w/ me as i can't think of any reason a new record trigger should leave the record dirty yeah, it's actually like a "dynamically calculated default value" *** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise lol actually having a field changed in an ON-NEWRECORD trigger makes the form unclosable nah kill -9 will close it as hitting F11 clears all records, then inserts an empty record, runs ON-NEWRECORD which again makes the form dirty... ajmitch: well, yes.... *** klasstek has joined #gnuenterprise jamest: would you think setting a field in the ON-NEWREOCRD trigger should fire the PRE-CHANGE and POST-CHANGE triggers? no ok i don't think so do you? glad you agree with me here :-) *** holycow has quit IRC hmmm seems to work I think I'll commit and hide for 2 days then ;-) *g* jamest: what is the current state of the "undelete" feature? how is it handled? if you press f5 to mark record for delete it's marked for delete if you press it again it returns it to it's previous status so it should be complete and functional as I just recently added it did we consider showing the "delete" button pressed in when cursor is on a deleted record? (like the query button while in query mode) so user gets a better optical feedback about which record is deleted and which is not *** btami has joined #gnuenterprise johannesV: thx for the xmlrpc fix, it's ok now btami: is gnue-forms expected to run on windoes me? it kills windows for my win me which is actually quite a nice feature, but I know people that wouldn't like it ;-) intresting I can investigate further if you don't know anything yet i have no ME around, so please ok I'm pretty sure the old version (pre common 0.6) worked ok so I can as a first step find out if it's gnue-runtime-environment or any of the tools or i have something fsck'd up on my windows machine (which is a possible alternative, too) ahyhow, win me was the worst win ever... same feeling here :) ok my first (and yet only) customer runs exclusively on win (xp) he pointed out some issues with win32 ui and I wanted to test gnue customer? but I only have win me yep individual solution reinhard: it could be pressed down mini project (actually micro project) 3 tables, 1 form, 1 report (not done with gnue-reports but with reportlab) reinhard: does not all the UIs status bars show the DEL|NEW|MOD|OK line? one thing I've learned from exactly this customer is people don't look at status bars ah, ok :) plus displaing it pressed down would make the "click again to revert" even more intuitive which leads me to... btami: is it correct that the buttons are *not* displayed as "pressed down" in win32 ui? especially the query button for now as he is always confused whether he is in query mode or not (like I said he doesn't look at status bars) hmm, you'r right you think it's easy fixable? also, you know about the cursor-offset-in-multiline-edits problem? 1. dunno getting feedback from users is a completely new experience for me... must get used to it first ;-) 2. what is the pb? when you enter text in a multiline edit, the GF cursor doesn't match the UI cursor (or something like that) when you are in a line > 1 it has to do with the usual CR-LF vs. CR discrepancy confusing the position calculation ah I couldn't reproduce due to my win problems but maybe you can find something from this (user-provided) description (and johannesV also experienced this problem) ok, will look into thanks a lot I will investigate into the win me problem as a consideration :-) ------------- jamest, jcater: this user came with another idea something like an "immediate search" entry like he has a form for item maintenance he doesn't want to go F8 - enter item number - F9 but he wants to have an entry "item number" where he can enter the number, press enter, and immediately gets that record what do you think about this idea? i'd like that i do that now with triggers ah good could be a new type of field that causes a query immediately on setValue would it need to be a new type? I mean or just a flag or I don't mind actually we might be more flexible with type="query" and I actually don't like "query" but I can't think of a better term right now should this be on the field or on the entry as i have fields that tie to more than one entry on my forms I *think* on the field from the logic of the field representing the db connection and the entry presenting more of a "ui position and size" info brb *** jamest has quit IRC *** jamest has joined #gnuenterprise reinhard: button pressed down visualization added to win32 toolbar btami: is that new addition? yes in win32 ui it's in other drivers before, i just forgot to implement it in win32 until now real users feedback is invaluable *** jcater has quit IRC anybody knows how to decrease font size for forms under win32? pointSize= in gnue.conf ? will try now fixedWidthFont = True ? real *paying* users as I can ignore my users but reinhard can't :) dimas: try with True and False too, please btami: thanks a lot *** johannesV has quit IRC *** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise bbl *** jcater has joined #gnuenterprise *** btami_away has quit IRC *** btami has joined #gnuenterprise *** sjc has joined #gnuenterprise good night all *** reinhard has quit IRC File "/home/ds/svn/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/rpc/drivers/_helpers/DirectoryServer.py", line 263, in getMethodDirEntry raise MethodNotFoundError, method MethodNotFoundError: The requested method 'getFilters' does not exist getting this with latest updates... *** jamest has quit IRC *** johannesV has quit IRC *** btami has quit IRC *** klasstek has quit IRC *** yure has quit IRC *** holycow has joined #gnuenterprise *** agile has joined #gnuenterprise word up fellas topicless even? :) hmm wonder where that went *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jcater heya jcater how's things? busier than I'd like Wife doing better? (last I was here [probably as Vee/Vee2d2/Sompn..] she hadnt been doing so well.. ) *** jcater changes topic to "Welcome to #gnuenterprise. For the latest release, visit http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/current.php | Visit our wiki at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/twiki/" what was her problem last time? she'd had some strokes? she always has something wrong :) not enough chicken tenders and donuts maybe :) something like that :) *** jcater sets mode: -o jcater *** sjc has quit IRC *** slicli has quit IRC *** SachaS has quit IRC who the heck is agile ? openwrt rocks * agile pokes chillywilly in the dilly! and indeed openwrt does. :) <- formerly the embroidery dude does derek have like 12 kids now? !seen jamest @seen jamest agile: jamest was last seen here 9 hours, 25 minutes, and 13 seconds ago saying: as I can ignore my users but reinhard can't :) hehe @version agile: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.79.999. The newest version available online is 0.83.1. oof :) still serving it's purpose pretty well though, I guess? @uptime agile: I have been running for 3 days, 6 hours, 45 minutes, and 1 second. *** jcater has quit IRC