*** spacey has joined #gnuenterprise
<btami> johannesV: can you test it again, please?
<johannesV> ok, just a sec
<johannesV> focus works fine now ...
<johannesV> ... but i can't press F6 within a dropdown
<johannesV> as well as F11 (rollback)
<btami> ah
<spacey> if you make gnue solution you have to write in python.. also possible to use other python libraries or is only gnue api set used?
<spacey> or how does it work in practical use?
<reinhard> spacey: there are theoretic possibilities of using different languages
<reinhard> but in practical use you would use python
<ajmitch> spacey: you could have full access to any python modules on your system
<ajmitch> btw hi :)
<reinhard> and yes, what ajmitch said
<ajmitch> spacey: using gnue on ubuntu?
<spacey> ajmitch, testing it :)
<ajmitch> ok :)
<spacey> ajmitch, ok thats cool
<spacey> just installed the package on breezy
<ajmitch> I heard you'd be at UBZ as well?
<spacey> ajmitch, yup i will
<ajmitch> great :)
<spacey> you too?
<ajmitch> yes
<spacey> cool
<spacey> i have to go out for 15 min
<spacey> brb
*** spacey has quit IRC
<reinhard> Whoa...I did a 'zcat /vmlinuz > /dev/audio' and I think I heard God...
<reinhard> 	-- mikecd on #Linux
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
*** sjc has quit IRC
*** spacey has joined #gnuenterprise
<spacey> ajmitch, you use gnue ?
<ajmitch> spacey: only a bit :)
<ajmitch> spacey: but I'm the debian/ubuntu packager for it
<spacey> ajmitch, ok :)
<spacey> currently i'm doing some research on gnue
<spacey> they asked me to compare gnue application server with gnue application server, at first
<ajmitch> a simple comparison ;)
<spacey> then yesterday i talked with one of the teachers about it and he noted he was looking for opensource alternatives instead of java, thats why they requested that
<kilo> good morning
<spacey> ajmitch, well actually its quite hard to find info on gnue, documentation is quite limited vs J2EE stuff. and no reviews/articles about it
<ajmitch> morning kilo
<kilo> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> spacey: that's right, not nearly as many users - I haven't seen articles on gnue out there
<spacey> ajmitch, me neither and i have googled quite a bit
<ajmitch> reinhard & johannesV are the people who really know appserver
<spacey> ajmitch, yeah i noticed in the wiki
<spacey> and they don't do documentation 0:)
<ajmitch> what sort of usage are you researching for?
<spacey> oh wiki is down again
<spacey> ajmitch, well atm i just want to compare gnue application server with j2ee application server. but i would like to extend it a bit with extra information about gnue. so school might look into it
<ajmitch> usually you;d compare, focusing on specific features, right?
<reinhard> spacey: we do documentation at our best
<spacey> differences between gnue application server and J2EE application servers (although there seem to be lot of different J2EE application servers implementations (IBM, SUN, more)
*** iro has joined #gnuenterprise
<reinhard> however we also do coding at our best, and usually coding has higher priority :(
<ajmitch> also other python app servers?
<spacey> reinhard, HowAppServerWorksHowto in the wiki ;)
<spacey> ajmitch, if you can name a few
<reinhard> the devguide should give prettty much an idea what appserver is about and where it is targeted at
<reinhard> the HowAppServerWorksHowto was written by kilo
<reinhard> :-)
<spacey> reinhard, i think i got that pdf
<ajmitch> spacey: zope is the big python appserver, but it's big :)
<reinhard> spacey: and when you have specific questions, please ask, I will try to answer
<reinhard> (but off to lunch now, bbl)
<spacey> reinhard, ok, thanks, i'll read the pdf first
<spacey> ajmitch, zope is a bit scary :P
<ajmitch> sure :)
* ajmitch has used zope a bit
* kilo looks up and whistles some crazy tunes
<spacey> the documentation part of the website is totally broken
<ajmitch> the server was recently moved
<ajmitch> jcater isn't around to unbreak things :)
*** johannesV has quit IRC
*** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise
<ajmitch> reinhard, johannesV: https://launchpad.net/products/gnuenterprise
<ajmitch> in case you're interested :)
<kilo> great
<kilo> i hope they will process existing translations though
<ajmitch> is anon svn working properly at the moment?
<dimas> hello all
<dimas> ajmitch: anon svn to contrib works
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> just sorting out the launchpad import to bazaar
<ajmitch> reinhard: how do you make release tarballs? you use a script?
<ajmitch> setup.py for each tool?
<btami> there is a release script in gnue-common/utils
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> what's the deal with accounts & svn?
<reinhard> release script does several things
<reinhard> svn up
<reinhard> run "make update-po" in the po subdirectory to sync po files with current source
<reinhard> run update-tool-docs to generate manpages and dtds
<reinhard> run generate-gnue-config.py to generate sample.gnue.conf
<reinhard> gcvs setup.py sdist --forat="gztar,zip" to create the actual tarballs
<reinhard> commit to svn (for the generated manpages etc)
<reinhard> scp tarballs to the web page
<reinhard> tag svn
<reinhard> send current documentation to the web
<reinhard> send release announcement
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I'm just sorting out the details on launchpad
<ajmitch> as it'll get imported there as a bazaar archive
<reinhard> so actually to create the tarballs, "gcvs setup.py sdist" would be enough
<ajmitch> except as separate products (gnue-common, gnue-forms, etc)
<reinhard> can you tell me more about the launchpad?
<ajmitch> so the url is https://launchpad.net/projects/gnuenterprise now :)
<reinhard> is it the bug tracking system of ubuntu?
<ajmitch> sure, it allows for online translation, bug tracker, you can write up specfications, projects get their source imported from cvs, svn, etc into a bazaar archive
<ajmitch> bug tracking is just part of it
<ajmitch> it's the part I've used most
<reinhard> I like the online translation idea
<ajmitch> rosetta is quite nice
<reinhard> If I start to translate to German, where does it take the po file from
<reinhard> ?
<reinhard> current svn?
<reinhard> last release?
<reinhard> currently packaged release?
<ajmitch> current svn
<ajmitch> svn will be synced each night
<ajmitch> afaik
<reinhard> cool
<reinhard> and what happens with the translations?
<reinhard> are they sent upstream?
<reinhard> automatically? or do you have to do that manually?
<ajmitch> not entirely sure
<ajmitch> I know I could grab a tarball of the translations & use that
<reinhard> ok
<ajmitch> you'd probably be able to merge them back in
<reinhard> anyway, nice idea
<reinhard> also the "Support" menu looks interesting...
<ajmitch> launchpad is still a work in progress
<reinhard> ah
<ajmitch> but the whole ubuntu distro is meant to be switching to it for all the package building, etc
<reinhard> this Bug tracker is actually a meta tracker, isn't it?
<ajmitch> since it's geared not just towards individual projects, but especially to distros
<ajmitch> yes, it is
<ajmitch> malone is meant to allow collaboration between various distro & upstream bugtrackers
<ajmitch> so you could see that a certain distro has the problem fixed
<ajmitch> grab the bazaar branch for that distro's work, and get the fix :)
<ajmitch> I thought that malone could be quite useful due to the lack of a functional bug tracker for gnue
<ajmitch> since I'll be using it for the ubuntu bugs anyway :)
<kilo> iirc rosatta crew is working on automatic upstream updates if the maintainer of the package agrees on that
<ajmitch> right, I know jbailey would know more about that than I
<reinhard> wow
<reinhard> malone looks cool from what I read
<ajmitch> yeah
<reinhard> if I were asked, I would be for using it as our upstream bug tracker
<reinhard> I understand that this is possible, right?
<ajmitch> certainly
<kilo> i am with you on that
<btami> coooool
* ajmitch gets on well with the malone developers, too :)
<spacey> launchpad++
* spacey going home, bbl
*** spacey has quit IRC
<reinhard> all in all I just notice that this launchpad thingy is not ubuntu centric at all actually
<ajmitch> no, it's not meant to be
<ajmitch> it's meant to enable development of ubuntu, and general free software development
<reinhard> yeah
<reinhard> it looks like a meta-sourceforge
<ajmitch> pretty much
<kilo> rosetta is a red light though for some guys as it is not GPL-ed
<kilo> dunno about other parts
<ajmitch> source is imported into bazaar branches, but thankfully they'll switch to bazaar 2.0 later this year (which I'm using now)
<ajmitch> kilo: yes, that's the main obstacle
<reinhard> uh?
<reinhard> so it's another free license, or it's non-free?
<ajmitch> lp not free software
<reinhard> and what about malone?
<ajmitch> part of launchpad
<reinhard> ah oh
<ajmitch> yeah :(
<kilo> not free yet but they swear they will license it free soon
<reinhard> so all of launchpad is non-free?
<ajmitch> currently
<reinhard> how come?
<ajmitch> I don't know what the future plans are
<ajmitch> because it's a web service.. and they haven't chosen to open it up yet
<ajmitch> I mainly did this import onto there so that I could get svn accessed as a bazaar branch :)
<reinhard> so let me rephrase
<reinhard> I am for using malone as our own bug tracker as soon as it's free software
<reinhard> and hope that this will be as soon as possible
<ajmitch> until then I'd use something like trac
<ajmitch> which has nice svn integration
<ajmitch> trac is bsd-licensed
<reinhard> I've also had a look at roundup, which is quite python-centric
<ajmitch> how does it look?
<ajmitch> btw, all launchpad is written on top of zope 3 ;)
<reinhard> it has been some time, but IIRC it has mail and web interface
<reinhard> plus it has all objects available as python objects
<ajmitch> useful
<reinhard> so you can acces bugs, etc as native python objects
<ajmitch> native gnue client ;)
<reinhard> of course having launchpad on zope3 also sounds interesting
*** swissmade has joined #gnuenterprise
<swissmade> Hiho
<reinhard> yes, of course I'm thinking about gnue integration
<reinhard> hi swissmade
<reinhard> :-)
<swissmade> Hi reinhard!
<swissmade> I just found the gnue website and I am a bit confused as to what gnue is.
<swissmade> i found it looking for open source project management tools using postgresql ..
<swissmade> but I got the impression it's more kind of a CASE tool set?
<swissmade> Ah yes.. and your wiki creates an error. ;-)
<ajmitch> wiki issues are known :)
<reinhard> gnue is pretty much everything
<reinhard> I've even made it wash my trousers
<reinhard> however different parts of the project are in different states
<kilo> and what do you wear now?
<reinhard> kilo: rofl
<reinhard> gnue is a set of CASE tools in pretty much advanced state
<reinhard> and a set of business applications mainly in planning state
<reinhard> so yes, it now is a CASE tool set, but it will become more over time
<ajmitch> reinhard: we need nice screenshots on the website :)
<swissmade> ajmitch: The screenshots do illustrate the CASE side of things.
<swissmade> reinhard: So there are code generators at work?
<swissmade> And they create python code?
<ajmitch> for example, designer creates xml form descriptions
<ajmitch> in which you can embed python code
<reinhard> swissmade: no code generators
<ajmitch> the forms client will use the form descriptions to get the UI
<btami> ajmitch: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/gallery/forms11.png
<swissmade> Hmm.. now while that does sound promising (we use python for our stuff as well) ..
<swissmade> it is not what I need now. ;-)
<ajmitch> btami: not enough shiny stuff ;)
<kilo> pffff
<swissmade> ajmitch: Shiny is not so important. But I need to get a PM tool up and running fast.
<swissmade> My staff needs more discipline! ;-)
<ajmitch> swissmade: web-based?
<ajmitch> or desktop app?
<swissmade> ajmitch, yes and using postgresql as DB to integrate with our own stuff (zope).
<ajmitch> ah, another zope user :)
<swissmade> web based!
<ajmitch> are there no zope project management tools?
* swissmade zope/postgresql developing community building tools for non-techie users
<swissmade> ajmitch: There is one half decent one, but it requires plone which I loath.
<swissmade> And it does not use a SQL database for the user data (which is what we need).
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> you find plone a bit heavy? :)
<swissmade> ajmitch: No, I find it too light and too restrictive. In my view it's a stand-alone product. If its features match your needs, great, but developing for it (compared to developing for plain zope) is a major PITA.
<swissmade> All this skin/themse and workflow stuff is only interesting in the "developer's ivory tower". ..
<ajmitch> yes, straight zope development allows you a lot more freedom
<swissmade> I have yet to find a customer who wants any of this.
<ajmitch> I've done most of my zope coding with plone though
<swissmade> And you've done much zope/plone coding?
<ajmitch> not a lot
<swissmade> :-)
<btami> johannesV: can you test it again please?
<ajmitch> reinhard: btw, do you know if I still have an svn account? :) my ssh key doesn't work to let me check out
<johannesV> yeah ...
<ajmitch> and I cannot recall what password I may have used back then
<reinhard> ajmitch: I think you have to ask jamest or jcater
<johannesV> btami, it's working fine .... thanks for fixing !
* ajmitch will try & hunt them down
<ajmitch> for now I have to sleep
<ajmitch> night
<btami> johannesV: thanks for testing!
*** jamest has joined #gnuenterprise
*** swissmade has quit IRC
*** kilo has quit IRC
*** btami has quit IRC
<reinhard> good morning jamest
<reinhard> can you please install gettext on ash?
<jamest> morning
<jamest> sure
<reinhard> it's needed for web page build
<jamest> ok, i was working on that a bit last night
<jamest> it's installed
<jamest> will try to build again
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
<jamest> well, it's not 100% but it looks like the api docs are back
<johannesV> reinhard, xmlrpc driver should be up to date now ...
<reinhard> jamest: you get the output, too, don't you?
<reinhard> there's still quite some error messages
<reinhard> johannesV: great, doing pre2 right now
<jamest> reinhard:  it's not 100%
<jamest> i'll work on it a bit more tonight
<reinhard> johannesV: I appreciate very much how you are humble
<reinhard> but I wouldn't call the fact that we only provide 2 rpc protocols as a bug :-)
<kilo> it is a major bug :D
<reinhard> off for today
<reinhard> cu
*** reinhard has quit IRC
*** iro has quit IRC
*** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise
*** jcater has joined #gnuenterprise
*** btami has joined #gnuenterprise
<btami> jcater: the wiki is dead again
<btami> TWiki Installation Error
<btami> Template file view.tmpl not found or template directory /var/lib/twiki/templates not found.
<btami> Check the $templateDir variable in TWiki.cfg.
*** michael301080 has joined #gnuenterprise
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> wtf?
*** SachaS has quit IRC
<michael301080> <michael301080> if I want to translate the pre-releases, can I just the files in svn?
<michael301080> <michael301080> or do I need to download the seperate packages via the website?
<michael301080> any translators online?
<jcater> I'm not a translator
<jcater> but I don't see why you couldn't use the svn copies
<jcater> svn head shouldn't be different from the prereleases
<jcater> we don't branch prereleases
*** kilo has quit IRC
<michael301080> ok, thx jcater.
*** michael301080 has left #gnuenterprise
*** dcmwai_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dcmwai has quit IRC
*** nickr has joined #gnuenterprise
*** klasstek has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dcmwai_ has quit IRC
*** sjc has joined #gnuenterprise
*** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise
*** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise
*** johannesV has quit IRC
<reinhard> jamest, jcater: just looked into gnue-common's AUTHORS file
<jamest> probably out of date
<reinhard> I think a list of things somebody has done is hard to keep updated, and in gnue-appserver we've just listed the names
<reinhard> would you agree with doing the same in common?
<jamest> sounds reasonable
<jcater> yeah
<jamest> though how hard is it to put
<jcater> jcater: Initial mess
<jamest> jcater: write obfuscated code
<reinhard> rofl
<jamest> jamest: write poorly designed code:
<jcater> jamest,reinhard,johannes,btami,.....: Cleanup
<jcater> , Proper implementation
<jamest> wouldn't that be
<jcater> , Working code
<jamest> exactly
<jamest> whoops
<jamest> typo
<jamest> jcater: (used to)write obfuscated code
<jamest> jamest: (on extremely rate occasions)write poorly designed code
<jamest> rare
<jamest> but anyway, just the authors is cool
<reinhard> you'd also agree with splitting in AUTHORS (main developers) and THANKS (people who wrote some docs, did excessive testing etc)
<reinhard> ?
<jcater> lol
<jcater> I like how he words that as an imperitive sentence
<jcater> reinhard: yeah, I'm fine with that
<reinhard> imperitive sentence?
<jcater> You will also agree....
<jcater> instead of
<jcater> Would you also agree....
<mnemoc> absolute,mandatory
<reinhard> you'd is short for "you would", isn't it?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> I was just teasing
<jamest> reinhard: yeah, he's playing on subtle usage of english
<jamest> basically saying you wording implied that we had best agree
<jamest> jcater is deep like that
<reinhard> didn't mean to imply that
<jamest> (or just confusing as hell, take your pick)
<reinhard> you know that I'm open for any opinion
<reinhard> as long as it matches mine
<jcater> lol
<jamest> lol
<mnemoc> :D
<jcater> whereas I usually even disagree with my own opinion
<reinhard> rofl
*** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise
<reinhard> good night all
*** reinhard has quit IRC
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
*** johannesV has quit IRC
*** yure has joined #gnuenterprise
*** btami has quit IRC
*** yure has quit IRC
*** SachaS has quit IRC
<ajmitch> morning all
<kilo> morning ajmitch
*** jamest has left #gnuenterprise
*** jcater has quit IRC
*** klasstek has quit IRC
*** sjc has quit IRC
*** kilo has left #gnuenterprise
*** jcater has joined #gnuenterprise
*** jamest has joined #gnuenterprise
<ajmitch> hi jcater/jam
<ajmitch> pff
<ajmitch> jcater/jamest
<jcater> howdy
<jcater> how are things down under?
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> I noticed yesterday that I don't have svn access now :)
<ajmitch> not that I ever committed, mind you
<jcater> we're adding people back as-needed
<jcater> we just have to add you to a group
<jcater> okay, you're back :)
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> jcater: now I just need my password reset or ~/.ssh/authorized_keys copied from ash :)
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I did restore /home
<ajmitch> 'svn up' is still asking for a password
<jcater> try now
*** jamest has quit IRC
<ajmitch> still no go
<ajmitch> Updated to revision 8014.
<ajmitch> yay
*** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise
*** nickr has quit IRC
*** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise
<reinhard> good morning all
<SachaS> good morning reinhard
<ajmitch> morning reinhard
*** nickr has joined #gnuenterprise
*** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise
*** SachaS has quit IRC
*** sjc has joined #gnuenterprise
<johannesV> hmm, irc-log seems to get merged with that one of yesterday ...
<johannesV> yeah, it does
<johannesV> good morning, btw :)
<reinhard> good morning
<reinhard> time on ash is some us time
<johannesV> brb
*** johannesV has quit IRC
*** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise
<johannesV> ok, back again
<reinhard> johannesV: time on ash is set to US time
<reinhard> so it still *is* yesterday on ash
<johannesV> hm, why do i need a password for svn now ?
<reinhard> yes, I wondered the same
<johannesV> i was used to use my key
<johannesV> ah, ok, that was working better on the old ash then ... :)
<reinhard> ok, you have to rename your .ssh/authorized_keys2 to .ssh/authorized_keys
<johannesV> oh, so we use ssh1 there ?
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> but the filename is set explicitly in sshd_config
<johannesV> yeah, great ... thanks
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
<kilo> good morning
*** SachaS has joined #gnuenterprise
*** SachaS has quit IRC
*** menomc has joined #gnuenterprise
*** mnemoc has quit IRC
*** menomc is now known as mnemoc