*** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise
*** johannesV_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** johannesV has quit IRC
*** kilo has quit IRC
*** klasstek has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dneighbors has joined #gnuenterprise
<johannesV_> bbl
<reinhard> no btami :(
<reinhard> bbl
*** dneighbors has quit IRC
*** dimas_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dneighbors has joined #gnuenterprise
*** jcater has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dcmwai has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dneighbors has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dneighbo1s has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dneighbo1s is now known as derek
*** jamest has joined #gnuenterprise
*** dneighbors has quit IRC
*** dimas_ has quit IRC
*** dcmwai has quit IRC
<reinhard> off for today
<reinhard> cu all
*** reinhard has quit IRC
*** johannesV_ has quit IRC
<SachaS> derek: october 13th phoenix linux user group meeting. I will go there.
<SachaS> so maybe we can meet there.
<derek> SachaS: i will try to make it
<derek> no promises
<derek> life has me consumed right now
<derek> we just signed a contract on a new home
<derek> and have 60 days to close on existing home
<derek> on top of that i quit my job last week (my last day is friday)
<derek> so starting new job as well
<jcater> derek, I'll give you $1,000 for your existing home, site unseen
* jcater looks around
<derek> add 3 more zeros and subtract $650,000 and i would consider it ;)
<jcater> that might interfere with my Ben and Jerry's snack fund
<jcater> guess I'll have to pass
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
<SachaS> derek: i see you are busy :)
*** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise
<ajmitch> hi
<reinhard> hi ajmitch
*** btami has joined #gnuenterprise
<btami> hi all
<kilo> hi
<btami> hi
<btami> reinhard: had readthe logabout jpeg
<btami> but dunno what changed
<btami> the pilmodules are in the runtime (library.zip) in the same place
<btami> hmm, myspace key is in strike mode :)
<kilo> lol
<kilo> alt+032 :D
<btami> kilo: is it the correct word (strike)?
<kilo> aha
<btami> ok, thx
<kilo> it is on strike
<kilo> or
<kilo> it went on strike
<btami> good, i'v typed the first version firs, but then changed to "in strike" :)
<btami> nevermind, i will remember
<kilo> :)
<btami> next time
*** sjc has quit IRC
<reinhard> btami: strange
<reinhard> do you have a form that loads a picture?
<reinhard> and can you test that with a jpg?
<btami> yes, it's notworking with .jpg, but
<btami> try to move the JpegImagePlugin.py under the Pil dir in library.zip
<reinhard> err
<reinhard> I think johannes will have to test that
<reinhard> I still get stack faults when running forms under win me
<reinhard> did a fresh install of win me, still no luck
<reinhard> but customer has win xp anyway, so i let johannes test for now
<btami> anyhow, i just can't imagine why it's worked before,and not now
<btami> ok
<reinhard> you be here tomorrow morning?
<btami> yep
<reinhard> great
<reinhard> so maybe you and johannes can find out together
<btami> it's ok here after moved the jpegplugin into the Pil dir
<reinhard> ok
<btami> 2k here in qemu
<reinhard> does that mean that there will be a new gnue-runtime-environment.exe?
<btami> yes
<btami> tomorrow
<reinhard> great
<reinhard> thank you very much
<btami> np
<reinhard> I appreciate your fixes very much
<btami> i hope you will start a BIG CLEANUP in forms and reports someday too:)
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> forms is actually next on my list
<reinhard> still I hope jamest will find some time to do some parts of it
<jamest> i will
<jamest> i've got the permission from the owner here to work on stuff
<reinhard> great
<jamest> it's just a matter of getting some things done first that have turned out much larger than expected
<reinhard> I must say that it's weird to get feedback from real customer
<reinhard> there are so many problems I wouldn't expect
<jamest> reinhard: like what?
<reinhard> he clicks on delete and wonders why record doesn't go away immediately
<jamest> we use forms heavily
<reinhard> problems in usage
<reinhard> he creates item number 041, enters all data, saves it
<reinhard> then goes to item number field, overwrites with 042 and starts entering data of item 042
<reinhard> without pressing insert button
<reinhard> he generally has no idea whether in query, insert or edit mode
<jamest> both of those were minor training issues here (but I recall both happening at least once)
<reinhard> yeah
<jamest> even though it's displayed on the screen?
<reinhard> that's what I probably learned with that - training is far more important than i expected
<jamest> my users understand that well enough now the (QRY, DEL, etc)
<reinhard> I told him several times, but he needs things banging on his had to notice
<jamest> but I'm also coming from a SQL*Forms background
<jamest> and it behaved the same way
<reinhard> also as a non-english speaker he doesn't really understand QRY, MOD, DEL etc.
<reinhard> and as I now noticed these strings are not translated (AFAICT, didn't check really)
<reinhard> yep, he comes from a very different background
<jamest> i think it'd be fairly trivial to make a del record not show in forms
<reinhard> still I think we've improved intuitiveness a lot with just minor things like displaying buttons as pressed in
<jamest> but leave in the resultset
<jamest> i find myself doing a fair number of triggers to autoquery results
<reinhard> jamest: I would even believe that showing the record with pressed delete button (like it is now) is even better
<reinhard> as otherwise he might not understand why he still has to commit to make the deletion final
<btami> agreed
<jamest> so that they don't deal with the f8->entry->f9 issue in the most common cases
<jamest> and IIRC we've talked about making that a field option
<reinhard> jamest: yep, that's something I'd like to work on
<reinhard> yes
<jamest> so that if something is put into a field and it's an empty record then look for it first
<reinhard> btami: agreed with what? :-)
<jamest> as for the 041 backtab 042 thing, that's just nasty
<reinhard> jamest: I would even make it an "always search" field
<reinhard> so even the 041 042 worked
<reinhard> i.e. if I enter 041 in the field, it creates a resultset with 041
<jamest> so the 042 would clear the form then?
<jamest> and how would you deal with cases where they mistyped a field value then went in to update it
<jamest> that would no longer be possible with always search
<reinhard> 042 would create a new relsult set, if 042 exists it would jump to that record, otherwise create a new one and initialize with 042
<reinhard> yes, right, update of primary key would not be possible any more
<reinhard> or there would be two fields pointing to the same column, one being normal and one being search
<jamest> i'll do that too :)
<jamest> but again via a trigger and an unbound field
<reinhard> and with some design of the form (like a line between search entries and modification entries) that might even become understandable
<jamest> fwiw, hidden deleted records of course couldn't be undeleted
<reinhard> yep (about trigger and unbound field), I'd just want to save me writing the trigger
<reinhard> and thus make it a "standard" behaviour of forms
<jamest> i added undelete after a user altered like 40 records then accidentally deleted one they didn't mean to
<jamest> they were less than happy that they hadn't saved in a while :)
<reinhard> undelete is ok, showing deleted record is also ok IMHO
<reinhard> as long as you see at first sight
<reinhard> search fields could even support things like 04*
<jamest> adding a search field would get rid of a lot of my triggers
<jamest> a simple sum() function would get rid of a bit more
<jamest> so a field could be linked as the sum() of a field foo in block bar
<jamest> these are things i want to do after I finish up my current project as the owner promised a new incentive program to our sales force back 6 weeks ago
<jamest> based on stuff our system didn't provide :)
<jamest> so rather than design a new system properly i've broke out the duct tape and went to town
<jamest> anyway, bbl
*** jamest has quit IRC
<reinhard> yes, time for bed for me
<reinhard> good night all
*** jcater has quit IRC
*** reinhard has quit IRC
<SachaS> i feels good people watching writing GPL code :)
<SachaS> it feels good people watching writing GPL code :)
<SachaS> it feels good watching people writing GPL code :)
*** derek has quit IRC
<SachaS> makes me smile behind closed bars
*** btami has quit IRC
*** klasstek has quit IRC
*** SachaS has quit IRC
*** kilo has quit IRC
*** alandd has joined #gnuenterprise
*** alandd has left #gnuenterprise
*** ajmitch has quit IRC
*** ajmitch_ has joined #gnuenterprise
*** ajmitch_ is now known as ajmitch
*** kilo has joined #gnuenterprise
*** ajmitch_1 has joined #gnuenterprise
*** johannesV has joined #gnuenterprise
<johannesV> good morning
*** reinhard has joined #gnuenterprise
<reinhard> good morning all
*** ajmitch has quit IRC
*** ajmitch_1 is now known as ajmitch
*** sjc has joined #gnuenterprise
<dimas> good morning
<kilo> good morning
*** btami has joined #gnuenterprise
<btami> good morning
<reinhard> hi btami
<btami> reinhard: the updated runtime env uploadad
<dimas> hello btami
<reinhard> great, thanks
<btami> np
<johannesV> hmm, found another bug in multiline-edits in win32 driver ...
<johannesV> if you type a text, then press return, then press backspace, then return again, the cursor position is wrong
<johannesV> ah, and yet another small one: i cannot press Ctrl-Q to quit the form ...
<johannesV> images are working fine now, thanks btami
<johannesV> btw. the new triggers ON-NEWRECORD and ON-RECORDLOADED are great !
<reinhard> johannesV: I think both these bugs are acceptable
<johannesV> and there's another scrollbar-issue too
<reinhard> (not meaning that we shouldn't try to fix them, but it shouldn't hold back)
<johannesV> if you scrolldown to unitl the last record is in the first row, and the start pushing the arrow-up button of the scrollbar the first record get's displayed in *each* row visible
<johannesV> so you see the first record about 10 time (if row=10)
<johannesV> but if you click into one of these 'faked' records, the change into the apropriate one
<johannesV> ah, something wrt multilines ... can't we use the cursor up/down keys to navigate *within* the multiline and just jump out at the first or last line (like we did in gtk2)?
<reinhard> no, that's not implemented in win32
<reinhard> I knew that
<johannesV> yeah, i know that it isn't
<johannesV> that's why i'm asking ...:)