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<btami> good morning
<dimas> hi
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<kilo> good morning
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<reinhard> good morning
<johannesV_> good morning
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<reinhard> is there an sql function that returns the first n characters of a string?
<reinhard> ah, already found what I need
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<pinky> hello
<pinky> is there someone here ?
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<dimas> hi pinky
<pinky> hello
<pinky> I'd like to discuss about possible (or not) cooperation between GNUe et Tiny ERP ?
<pinky> Both projects are similar on some points
<pinky> I am (one of) the main developer of Tiny ERP
<pinky> What do you think about that ?
* derek__ wants to know where brain is ;)
<jcater> pinky: what are you envisioning?
<dimas> pinky: you need reinhard to talk with
<derek__> i know reinhard had looked at tinyerp
<derek__> last time i looked at it, it wasnt far enough along
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<derek> looks much more mature now
<derek> back to jcater's question.. how would you see it working
<derek> gnue really is a framework at this point w/o an ERP application (though reinhard is moving in that direction)
<derek> tiny erp seems to have erp type software
<derek> is tiny erp wanting to move to the gnue platform?
<derek> tinyerp french based?
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<psu> apparently the GNUe Traffic website has an RSS feed
<psu> although I can't seem to access it
<psu> http://www.kernel-traffic.org/GNUe/rss.rdf
<psu> if people round here still use livejournal, I could syndicate via that
<psu> plus maybe we could syndicate on the www.gnuenterprise.org home page
<psu> just a thunk
<derek> hey psu
<derek> world cup less than 3 weeks
<derek> owen going to be ready?
<psu> owen allegedly is ready
<derek> newcastle isnt far from sunderland is it?
<psu> rooney almost so - resumes training Friday
<psu> derek - physically, no. Conceptually about 100 million miles...
<derek> rofl
<psu> newcastle vs sunderland is probably the bitterest rivalry in english football
<derek> saw that safc picked up new beer sponsor (though i have never heard of the beer)
<psu> not up to the standards of rangers vs celtic (where there's some sectarianism to throw into the mix)
<derek> fwiw i hate those new blue kits :(
<psu> reg vardy still the main shirt sponser tho'
<psu> reg vardy corporate hq is under a mile from where I'm sitting
<derek> really.. car dealership right?
<psu> agree re blue shirts
<psu> not that you can actually get them yet
<psu> released 8th June
<psu> There will, of course, be queues outside the club shops at one minute to midnight
<psu> they must think it's the new harry potter book or something ;-)
<derek> the man utd v safc game was pure joy
* derek actually got to see LIVE broadcast!
<psu> but of course, americans will tell you 0-0 must always be boring
<derek> so pissed we couldn't finish on any opportunities
<psu> s/americans/non-intelligent americans
<derek> they controlled the game, but i consider them lucky that we didnt walk out with a 1-0 win
<psu> anyway, at least 1 season in the Championship now
<psu> although my "other" team, Watford, got the final Premiership slot
<derek> but then the following monday to have our asses handed to us 4-1 by newcastle
<derek> reading is damn near an american squad
<derek> i think they have like 4 or 5 americans starting on that team :)
<lupo__> . o O ( what are they talking about? )
<psu> sunderland was at one stage the Irish national team reserves
<psu> and that was *before* mick was manager
<derek> isn't sunderland south ireland?
<derek> ;)
<psu> sadly not
* psu could do with some "celtic tiger" economic growth
<psu> one of my old companies moved all their programmers to the west of ireland
<psu> to take advantedge of the 100% capital allowances
<psu> the press release managed to say with a straight face that the reason for the move was
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<psu> "to take advantedge of the high-quality irish IT graduate recruitment market"
* psu will shut up now in case pinky wants to talk tinyerp
<psu> which will please lupo__ if no-one else ;-)
<derek> :)
<pinky> hello
<pinky> I wanted to know if some of you think that cooperating on some part of the code (between Tiny ERP ang GNUe)
<pinky> is possible and interresting ?
<reinhard> hi pinky
<reinhard> I see my name was mentioned to you when you asked this question :)
<pinky> yes, I get a message on our forum
<pinky> that's why I learned to use BitchX :)
<reinhard> is that forum open? can you give me an url?
<pinky> http://tinyerp.org/forum/
<pinky> Here was the question of the guy: http://tinyerp.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1464&highlight=gnue
<reinhard> so you are fabien?
<pinky> Tiny ERP and GNUe seems to have lots of similar points (technically speaking)
<reinhard> we've met 2 years ago at Linuxtag in Karlsruhe (IIRC)
<reinhard> I agree that tiny erp and gnue have many similar approaches
<reinhard> however, I have looked a bit at tinyerp's code and I don't see many possibilities of sharing *code* at this poit
<reinhard> point
<reinhard> what we could think about is, IMHO, sharing *ideas* or maybe even interfaces
<reinhard> sorry, must run, will be back in 30 min
<pinky> yes, i am fabien
<pinky> I agree but
<pinky> for example, about one year ago, I though that using GNUe's designer could be a good idea to design
<pinky> our views (we still not have a designer for our views)
<pinky> both project are mature and too advanced to change design architecture but some external part could be shared
<pinky> I am not sure it is a good idea but I think it is good to think about that
<psu> i suppose that the issue is that
<psu> what we have to offer is our tools
<psu> (Forms, Reports, App Server, Navigator, etc)
<psu> but
<psu> if you are already reasonably mature, you will already have your equivalents already
<psu> and no obvious advantedge to you in refactoring to use ours
<psu> much as we would love it ;-)
<pinky> other idea (tell me if I am completly wrong), I think that GNUe could use our report
<pinky> engine based on OpenOffice without modifing GNUe parts (it is independant of Tiny ERP)
* psu wonders if this is what reinhard meant by "both are in a project state where it's not easy to cooperate much any more"
<jcater> "based on OpenOffice"
<jcater> how so?
<psu> of course, we could just wait 30 mins and ask him...
<pinky> Example; http://tinyerp.com/flash/tiny_report.swf
<jcater> interesting
<pinky> But I think the most important point is this;
<pinky> we are thinking about creating a complete BI program in Python
<jcater> BI?
<pinky> (it's HOLAP cube for datamining)
<jcater> okay
* psu has always been interested in the idea of a free software equivalent to 
<pinky> The BI program we plan to develop will be independant of Tiny ERP
<psu> BusinessObjects or Crystal Reports or Cognos Impromptu or whatever
<pinky> So you may have the same needs for your reporting in GNUe
<psu> Not that GNUe Reports isn't a good piece of software
<pinky> Yes, for BO but not for Crystal Reports
<pinky> We already have a crystal report alternative in Python; openreport and tinyreport
<pinky> of course, we can not share business logics nor frameworks
<pinky> but for some parts; yes
<pinky> for a BI in Python, we have to develop anythink from scratch as there is nothing useable currently
<psu> the other possible collaberation point
<pinky> so, that's why I wanted to know if such kind of development is in your roadmap or not
<psu> is when people want to extend tinyerp
<psu> say they want to put something specific to their business
<psu> in front of one of your modules
<pinky> yes, I do not know GNUe but I suppose you should have better module in some area than Tiny
<psu> well i was thinking more about where someone wants to "roll their own" but still have it link into tinyerp
<psu> depending how easy it is to develop new stuff in your toolkit
<pinky> sorry, I don't understand ?
<pinky> ok.
<psu> it might be easier to point them towards GNUe Forms and say "use that for your XYZ module
<pinky> I am not sure, this will happend (for both ways) as both pragrams have a powerfull framework
<psu> that you eventually want to integrate into tinyerp's crm or accounting or whatever"
<pinky> but for external code, libs or programs it could be interresting
<psu> but really that assumes that our develop framework is "better" than yours
<psu> for an end-user's perception of "better"
<psu> which may or may not be the case
<pinky> Yes, it's possible but if we have to share some code, it will be more for
<psu> If nothing else, GNUe tools could be a standard way of interacting with tinyerp's APIs/interfaces
<pinky> thinks like (EDI interface with SAP, Better Report Engine (rewritten from scratch), BI, ...)
<pinky> In which .tar.Gz may I download GNUe tools ?
<psu> not really a single tar for the whole lot
<pinky> Is it possible the use some part of GNUe without the whole GNUe framework ? (like report designer for instance)
<psu> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/current.php is the best jumping-off point
<psu> pinky - absolutely.
<psu> GNUe Common has all the shared stuff
<psu> other than than, just use what you need
<reinhard> back
<psu> a very simple app in GNUe might just need Forms
<psu> or you can add Reports, Navigator, App Server and have it all singing all dancing
<psu> reinhard: you might want to review back log & see if i've grossly mis-represented you ;-)
<psu> especially since I need to run now
<psu> bedtime for bozo
<pinky> and not App-server ?
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<reinhard> I confirm what psu said :)
<reinhard> pinky: the idea behind gnue is that you can use it 2 ways
<reinhard> a) front-end (forms, reports) -> database
<jcater> if nothing else can be shared, it would still be great to keep communications open
<reinhard> b) front-end -> appserver -> database
<jcater> as there will be some people we'd be better off referring to tinyerp
<jcater> and vise-versa, I imagine
<reinhard> yes, I have already pointed quite some people to tinyerp that were looking for a turnkey erp system here
<jcater> and it's good seeing others use python like we are
<pinky> reinhard - can you tell why and how ?
<pinky> This means that the app-server is not required ? Where is the logic ?
<pinky> jcater: I agree
<reinhard> you can build simple apps where you put all the logic in the forms and the reports
<reinhard> as many real life gnue based applications are very small sized few table few forms apps
<pinky> and if you add the app-server, you can add more complex logic ? Compiere does the same (but surely less good)
<reinhard> for bigger apps you can choose to put logic in appserver
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> whereas appserver then behaves like a database on crack (as somebody put it here)
<reinhard> you can define triggers and calculated fields with arbitary python code
<reinhard> but still you can use the same front end tools like gnue-forms, gnue-reports, gnue-designer for both kinds of projects
<reinhard> reading about your plans to implement a reporting engine from scratch makes me think that this might be a good opportunity to cooperate
<pinky> I will apt-get install gnue-forms nd come back with my questions
<reinhard> you might consider using parts of gnue-common for that, which would gain you database independence out of the box
<reinhard> you're welcome at any time with any kind of questions
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I need to finish my changes to designer
<jcater> and get that out the door
<derek> pinky: does tiny erp have a web interface at all?
<derek> or are you considering on at all?
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<reinhard> good night all
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