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<DavidB123> Hi folks, I've just seen screenshots of gnuenterprise. Is it stable and useful yet?
<dimas> hi DavidB123
<dimas> it is useful as a tool to develop your own application
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<johannesV> good morning
<reinhard> good morning
<dimas> good morning
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<DavidB123> Hello
<DavidB123> I've only seen screenshots of gnuenterprise. Is it stable and useful yet?
<DavidB123> Anybody here?
<dimas> DavidB123: hello
<DavidB123> Hi dimas
<dimas> wait a little until someone will answer you
<dimas> <dimas> it is useful as a tool to develop your own application
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<DavidB123> have you had a chance to use it?
<btami> good morning
<DavidB123> good morning btami
<dimas> i'm using it for some in-house application
<btami> same here
<DavidB123> is it buggy or does it work well? slow or prety rapid development?
<DavidB123> (the eForms screenshots look pretty cool)
<dimas> forms for create,update, search, delete data could be done pretty quick
<dimas> you define schema, getting default forms from application server then customize manually or with gnue designer
<DavidB123> can you say "this type of person can only see/modify this type of record"?
<reinhard> no ready-to-go permission management yet
<reinhard> I guess you could build something with triggers
<reinhard> but never tried that
<reinhard> permission management is on the todo list, but with lower priority
<DavidB123> :-)
<DavidB123> so would you say it's the best and fastest way to create database interfaces? or do any negatives come to mind?
<reinhard> it's the way to create a db interface that I would choose
<reinhard> obviously ;-)
<reinhard> it is still the only way I know that gives you platform independence *and* backend independence at the same time
<reinhard> and it is 100% free software
<reinhard> if you want to get the negatives, the only that comes to my mind is that we are not yet 1.0 if you understand what I mean
<reinhard> there might be some features missing, but what's normally needed is there
<reinhard> and we have seen other projects calling 1.0 what we would have called 0.4 ;-)
<DavidB123> :-) yes i was worried about the 0.5 version number
<reinhard> we are working on 0.6 ;-)
<DavidB123> so would you say what's missing from 1.0 are needed features rather than problematic bugs?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> where I wouldn't even say "needed" features
<reinhard> just features we are planning
<reinhard> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/roundup/gnue/ should give you a complete list of known bugs as well as things we would consider missing features
<DavidB123> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/packages/prjmgt.php
<DavidB123> I tried to look at these "packages" but the status PHP substitutions aren't working and there's no info ...
<reinhard> most of the packages are in planning state
<DavidB123> i see so it just doesn't exist yet, yes?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> there are some basic packages in SVN
<reinhard> but nothing released yet
<DavidB123> any demo installations anywhere to play around with?
<reinhard> nope
<reinhard> what OS are you using?
<DavidB123> Windows, Mac and Redhat :-)
<DavidB123> Windows crashed, alas;
<reinhard> well
<DavidB123> Mac installed but I can't find where it installed
<reinhard> I asked for operating system, so windows is not an option anyway ;-)
<DavidB123> :-)
<DavidB123> Linux I just use text so that rules out the Designer
<reinhard> ah
<reinhard> ok
<DavidB123> I'm sure I could get an X window up somehow
<reinhard> maybe btami can help with your windows problem
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<reinhard> or kilo :-)
<dimas> :)
<kilo> good morning
<kilo> or who? or what? :)
<DavidB123> :-)
<DavidB123> yes on windows whichever program I run, it gives the error message "See the logfile ... for details" -- and that one says,
<DavidB123> TraceBack ... File "gnue-appserver", line 30, in ?
<DavidB123> ImportError: No module named gnue.appserver
<DavidB123> So none of the programs run
<DavidB123> :-(
<reinhard> you installed gnue-common?
<DavidB123> Hmm
<DavidB123> let me see
<DavidB123> Hey it's working :-)
<DavidB123> Thanks!
<DavidB123> That did the trick.
<kilo> \o/
<DavidB123> So do I need to be running a real database server like mysql to test this out, or is there some easy text-based db built in?
<reinhard> you can use sqlite
<DavidB123> so that's built into gnue?
<reinhard> no, but it's included in gnue-runtime-environment
<reinhard> (IIRC, btami please correct me if I'm wrong)
<DavidB123> Hey thanks a lot reinhard, I will play with it.
<reinhard> for the sake of a easier learning curve: you might want to do your first learning steps in 2-tier mode, i.e. directly forms <-> database
<reinhard> without appserver
<kilo> no, sqlite itself is not included
<btami> yep
<kilo> (i was quicket to type :) )
<kilo> quicker
<reinhard> lol - SCO spent 3.76 million dollars last quarter on the process against IBM to defend their "intellectual property" in unix
<reinhard> revenues from selling that "intellectual property" rights increased up to 34000 USD
<kilo> damn, why dont spend 0.1 million dollars on gnue instead :)
<reinhard> doesn't look like a profitable thing :)
<reinhard> s/revenue/sales
<kilo> one's loss is always the other one's profit...
<reinhard> right
<reinhard> if I was a lawyer, I would want to be hired by SCO
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> or IBM
<kilo> see? exactly :)
<kilo> but... how much money would you need to become a lawyer? :D
<DavidB123> wonder when SCO will run out of $
<DavidB123> I've finished reading the Developer's Introduction; is there a separate Getting Started document?
<reinhard> I don't think so
<reinhard> some people have written up something in the wiki, but most of that is not current anymore AFAICT
<reinhard> the problem with such a getting started document is that 95% of what you do depends on platform, database used, and what you are aiming at at all
<reinhard> so it is very hard to write a generic howto
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<reinhard> cu all
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<pgstudy> Hello.
<pgstudy> I have a license question. GNUe is GPL right?
<dimas> yep
<pgstudy> dimas: i was asked to create a big ERP application for an importer business. I was wondering if the forms you design and stored in the server are not GPL. i.e. i can enforce what license i wish on the actuall "application"
<pgstudy> something like NONCOMERCIAL CC
<pgstudy> I understand they are actually XML files stored in PostgreSQL.
<dimas> you need someone not me to answer this question
<Amorphous> pgstudy: i guess if you completely made them yourself you can put them under whatever licence you like. or would you say all docs made with openoffice need to be gpl?
<dimas> not usually stored in db
<pgstudy> Amorphous: What the designer application makes, is not considered made yourself?
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<Amorphous> pgstudy: afaik it is just an editor for an xml file... so it is "made by yourself"
<pgstudy> Amorphous: ok, this looks very exciting. very much reminding me of SAP. though it still not there :). The client and server both work on windows right?
<pgstudy> i was already preparing to do this on ruby on rails, but i am now going to investigate this very seriously
<pgstudy> are there already successful stories? I need it to sever from 50-100 client stations that inserts items to storage and removes items, make reciepts, etc...
<pgstudy> serve
<dimas> not publicly available, AFAIK
<dimas> you can talk to jamest or jcater more about it
<pgstudy> Do you think it can hold a busy business, stable, no crushing, etc...
<dimas> they have biggest installation probably
<pgstudy> dimas, Amorphous: ok 10x for your help. now to the drawing board :)
<dimas> pgstudy: and also talk with reinhard, they could be of more help
<pgstudy> ok 10x. I am going to try installing both on windows and of course on my linux and see how it behaves, memory leaks etc...
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<pgstudy> well, i am trying the designer, but it doesn't really work. it opens but i can't do anything.
<pgstudy> here is the log from the designer http://rafb.net/paste/results/Q3RTkY97.html , am i missing something?
<pgstudy> i see the form and i click new -> button , text , etc... but nothing happens.
<pgstudy> btw it is on linux
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<jamest> pgstudy: you running svn head?  or a release?
<jamest> btw, my responses will be very slow, i apologize in advance
<jamest> svn head is very unstable at the moment
<pgstudy> jamest: i downloaded the tgz files from the site
<pgstudy> installed in home directory
<pgstudy> It is my first run, so it could be i am doing something wrong. I installed common, forms, appserver, designer. Run designer and it opens and i click on Label, Button etc... but it doesn't seem to get on the form
<jamest> and this is from the a set of release tar files?  not a snapshot?
<pgstudy> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/current.php
<pgstudy> jamest: i believe this is not a snapshot
<pgstudy> btw, are you already running a heavy duty application like ERP with 100 stations or so with GNUe?
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<jamest> pgstudy: i'm running 30 person call center w/ gnue based apps
<jamest> but we're an LTSP shop
<jamest> so like right now
<jamest> i've got 3 ibm 306x's w/ 1 2.8GHz P4s and 1gig of ram
<jamest> and people pick their login machine at startup
<jamest> so those 3 ibms run kde + a java app + gnue based apps for multiple people
<jamest> the machine I'm logged into now has 8 people using it atm
<jamest> we do have a seperate ibm 345 server containing the postgresql DB
<dimas__> jamest: how those 3 servers work together to accept user login and provide user environment?
<jamest> i have a slightly hacked ltsp
<jamest> that I setup to present the X chooser
<jamest> instead of KDM
<jamest> (or your login mgr of choice)
<jamest> then I have dhcpd running on all 3 boxes
<jamest> and a cfengine script modifies the dhcpd.conf file to point the ltsp boot record at that specific machine
<jamest> services like cups, nfs, smtp, imap, etc are all on other, higher quality boxes
<jamest> so when ltsp term boots it random gets it's IP assigned by one of the three boxes
<jamest> it pulls it's config from that same box, loads ltsp
<jamest> and presents the user a list of login machines (the 3 boxes)
<jamest> then if one boxes locks up or the hardware fails only the users logged into that box are effected
<jamest> they reset their ltsp terminal and the process is repeated with less machines avail
<jamest> i've blown a NIC and left the machine offline for a few weeks without issue
<jamest> I also run one machine as our test login box
<jamest> users are welcome to use it like any other but i'll initially install new stuff there
<jamest> and if issues arrise (say a new version of gnue breaks 2 or 3 forms only 1 person uses) then that person avoids the test box
<jamest> until I resolve the issue, they test again, and the updates are pushed to all machines
<jamest> cfengine keeps all three machines virtually identical
<dimas__> so those three servers are to care about ltsp terminals? all services and data are out on another machines?
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<jamest> yes
<jamest> other than dhcpd
<jamest> ltsp boots before dns is up on the ltsp terminal
<jamest> so ltsp assumes that the dhcp server provides ltsp boot info
<jamest> however all my ip addresses in house are static
<jamest> so running 3 copies of dhcp works fine
<jamest> i could make each one hand out their own unique ip range to avoid conflicts but there is no need
<jamest> this setup works really well for us
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<dimas__> was disconnected
<jamest> as our login servers aren't high end, our terminals are $50 old dells or compaqs purchased from a reseller
<jamest> dimas__: there is a bit of info in the logs
<dimas__> reading
<jamest> dimas__: if anyone ever wanted this setup i'd be happy to share the config info
<jamest> it's a poor mans high availability for a call center :)
<jamest> anyway, i have to run now
<jamest> bbl
<dimas__> thanks jamest
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<pgstudy> any1 here?
<pgstudy> need help with first time run of appserver. is there a script to create the gnue database and populate it?
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