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<kilo> good morning
<reinhard> good morning
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<johannesV> good morning
<btami> good morning
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<pgstudy> what method does the appserver uses to send the form to the client?
<btami> you mean form's data?
<btami> if yes, then xml-rpc
<reinhard> gnue-forms calls a RPC function on appserver, then appserver sends the form as the function result
<reinhard> (if you mean the generated forms)
<btami> :)
<pgstudy> does it work both ways?
<pgstudy> i.e. server initiate calls to client?
<pgstudy> i.e., refreshing the data in the form if it changed
<reinhard> nope
<reinhard> in fact clients work in isolated transactions
<reinhard> i.e. you don't see changes made by other clients unless you explicitly commit or refresh your transaction
<reinhard> which is, BTW, how I really think it should be
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<FaithX> wow some action in this channel...
<FaithX> Is gnueterprise production ready... would it suit a small manufacturing plant including payroll?
<reinhard> FaithX: there's always action when somebody asks something :)
<reinhard> gnue is production ready as a development tool
<reinhard> gnue is not there as a turnkey erp/payroll solution
<FaithX> as a dev tool... elaborate just a little reinhard
<FaithX> what does it allow me to do?
<reinhard> gnue allows you to easily create database applications
<reinhard> both in 2-tier mode (user interface <-> database server) and 3-tier mode (with application server in between)
<reinhard> and you write your app once and run it on GNU/Linux, Windows, Mac OSX
<reinhard> and with several db backends from sqlite to maxdb
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<derek> reinhard: how can you be at the office when so many good futbol games are in stadiums so close to you. :)
* derek suspects you are moderately close to munich and stuttgart?
<reinhard> yep
<reinhard> 2-3 hours
<reinhard> but I wouldn't go there even if you paid me for it
<dimas> :)
<jcater> yeah, futbol is boring
* jcater hides
<derek> in this case i think that it has less to do with futbol and more to do with the mob crowds
<reinhard> yep
<derek> i love the game, but im not sure i would attend a world cup in germany... its got to be insane in any town with games being played thre
* jcater was being inflamatory ... I knew what reinhard meant
<dimas> mob crowds?
* derek had read somewhere they thought prostitution outside stadiums was going to be so bad that they were going to set up special port a jon things
<derek> just for prostitutes to do their "work" in
<derek> jcater: you have any sco boxes left?
<derek> a client called us the other day using a product called add+on that runs on sco "linux"
* derek is wondering what kind of pain is involved in getting rid of it :)
<jcater> I have a sco emulated box
<jcater> linux-abi.sf.net
<derek> exactly what i was looking for! thanks
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<johannesV_> i've got three tickets for the 3. Round (24th June) in munich ... :=
<johannesV_> :)
<derek> johannesV_: aussies just put one in (cahill) in the 87th minute to tie japan 1:1
<johannesV_> great ...
<derek> johannesV_: remember the vatican gives red cards for engaging in prostitution :)
<derek> no way... aussies put in another one in 90th to go up 2-1... thats just sick :)
<derek> ok no more futbol in here. :)... i came to ask a real question and now i forgot it :(
<derek> has there been any more work done a on a web client by siesel?
<derek> and then for reinhard and johannesV_ is there a website for the new package work you guys are doing?
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<siesel> hi
<derek> hi siesel how goes teh web interfaces for gnue
<siesel> it is kind of stalled at the moment, as I #ve been occupied with real life
<reinhard> derek: there is no package work we are doing at the moment
<derek> reinhard: i thought you guys had a call center thing going?
<siesel> But I will have really much time in July
<reinhard> oh
<reinhard> that's running for > 1 year no with little to no changes
<siesel> and have already many ideas, how to improve the webclient.
<reinhard> and I wouldn't even call it "call center"
<siesel> Do you have any plans to use it ?
<reinhard> more like a "hotline invoicing framework"
<derek> siesel: im just curious of the approach
<derek> currently we are using a lot of ruby on rails
<siesel> and do you like it? I mean RoR
<derek> i think it does a lot of things well, but it still doesnt solve my primary problems :)
<siesel> you mean the primary problems which can be solved by software or the other ones ;)
<derek> they have something like gnue designer wizards (only for web) called scaffolding that is interesting
<jcater> derek: we've seen your code
<jcater> I wouldn't expect RoR to do miracles
<derek> and their active record stuff is similar to gnue-common
<derek> certainly RoR has brought web applications very much into the future
<siesel> recently I read a comparison between RoR and Zope.
<derek> it still misses the mark to be a specific enough framework to churn out enterprise applications
<siesel> Both would be application frameworks, which would promote a programming language.
<siesel> And users would learn first about the framework and then start to use the language.
<siesel> I know a bit about rails and much more about python, and I think, that both somehow sucks.
<derek> yeah i think that is fair statement
<siesel> oops, please replace python by zope
<derek> there is much talk about how pretty and perfect ruby is....
<siesel> derek: my idea of an enterprise app framework is to use gnue-designer + vi  to create the forms and reports and try it out using gnue-forms
<derek> but personally it reminds me of perl
<derek> only with a good object model
<derek> of course i liked object pascal so what do i know
<siesel> and then to transform it into a web application
<siesel> I think object pascal is something humans can read and understand, but perl and ruby seems to need some kind of extra syntax training
<derek> well thats what i dont get
<derek> everyone here RAVES on how "readable" ruby is and how "human" it is
<derek> to me the syntax is crap unless you are a ruby programmer
<siesel> probably you have to learn Katakana first to understand it, as ruby comes from Japan.
<dimas> then take replacement for ror from python's world
<derek> dont get me wrong, ruby is really quite nice, but i dont think it this elegant thing of beauty people claim it to be
<derek> simply put w/o rails i wouldnt be using ruby
<jcater> I was surprised to learn how much ruby shuns unicode
<jcater> but apparently that comes from its japanese background
<siesel> derek: the webfrontend should be for gnue-forms as mySAP to R3.
<siesel> jcater: is it so much better than python concerning unicode?
<derek> jcater: ruby like its developers is VERY opinionated
<jcater> siesel, not better ... worse
<derek> they dont care about internationalization
<derek> remember all japanese people read/write english ;)
<derek> at least japanese programmers
<derek> has gnue considered using the django database api?
<dimas> i do not think so
<derek> i actually think gnue's db abstraction is some of the best i have ever used
<derek> but it would be nice to see consolidation in the python world on the subject :)
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<someon> For the logs...  How does Glom compare with what GNUe has done so far?
<someon> It seems to be written in Python, but only for GTK (2?)
<someon> And only for PostgreSQL
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<someon> It is modelled after FileMaker Pro rather than Oracle Forms, but seems to share a number of elements....
<someon> It does has one thing that would be interesting to see how they have done - "User Level" --- Access permissions
<someon> OK..  so it's written using gtkmm, so it must be C++, but uses python for calculated fields...
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